The "set up' questions

[Userid]

Userid,
I'd love to hear FW's version of events. It must differ as he has never made it public, probably on legal advice. Yet if JR is lying about the blanket then FW can call him out, since he was there and claimed to touch JonBenet.

I'll bet FW thinks JR moved JonBenet's body later that morning? He said he actually looked in the wine-cellar and never saw JonBenet. Never mind the smell of urine or that of a dead body.

JR takes one look and its Bingo, FW takes a look and sees nothing how come?

Maybe JR wants it to be known he removed the blanket, so explaining any forensic traces, does not change the outcome a great deal other than to put JDI on the table?

.

I would make that bet too about FW (that he believes JR moved her body later).

I suppose it doesn't change the outcome and there isn't a definitive reason why JR would lie about it, I'll agree.

 

[archieil]

I am thinking about the possibility of examining the body by someone from the Police in the morning.

With additional light source (wires) and photos.

I would be glad to see an interview with FW have a question:

"Do you remember something white on a floor at the time you checked the winecellar in your memory?"

These official papers seem like part of the truth. The Policemen involved could have some additional "spoken" knowledge or it is only my imagination.

It was a lengthy investigation and if they did some silly moves at the beginning it could never show up later.

The time of death is one of them. The flashlight in the kitchen the other. Some evidence of moving things out of control another one.

I am using my theory to put parents and friends into the equation but it is only guessing. I am not able to talk with people involved in the investigation on my own.

 

[UKGuy]

I would make that bet too about FW (that he believes JR moved her body later).

I suppose it doesn't change the outcome and there isn't a definitive reason why JR would lie about it, I'll agree.

Userid,
Sure the outcome appears the same, except you definitely have JR playing a leading role. If the case is PDI and JR engineered matters to minimize his involvement, why does he suddenly decide I better find her?

Why did JR not wait and see if JonBenet was found, maybe the police would go away? JR had been told he was going nowhere, so why does he escalate matters?

Its JR who wants to fly away interstate, make me wonder if the case is really JDI, since if he moved JonBenet this implies he knows what went before?

Forgot to mention in my last post:

JR takes one look and its Bingo, FW takes a look and sees nothing how come?

Everyone bear in mind that JR is nearly blind , he has very bad eyesight, this is the reason he employed a pilot, yet he can see what FW failed to !

.

 

[Cottonstar]

Userid,
Sure the outcome appears the same, except you definitely have JR playing a leading role. If the case is PDI and JR engineered matters to minimize his involvement, why does he suddenly decide I better find her?

Why did JR not wait and see if JonBenet was found, maybe the police would go away? JR had been told he was going nowhere, so why does he escalate matters?

Its JR who wants to fly away interstate, make me wonder if the case is really JDI, since if he moved JonBenet this implies he knows what went before?

Forgot to mention in my last post:

Everyone bear in mind that JR is nearly blind , he has very bad eyesight, this is the reason he employed a pilot, yet he can see what FW failed to !

.

JR decided it was time to “find” JonBenet because he was aware that the FBI were en route to 755 15th St.


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[Userid]

Userid,
Sure the outcome appears the same, except you definitely have JR playing a leading role. If the case is PDI and JR engineered matters to minimize his involvement, why does he suddenly decide I better find her?

Why did JR not wait and see if JonBenet was found, maybe the police would go away? JR had been told he was going nowhere, so why does he escalate matters?

Its JR who wants to fly away interstate, make me wonder if the case is really JDI, since if he moved JonBenet this implies he knows what went before?

Forgot to mention in my last post:

Everyone bear in mind that JR is nearly blind , he has very bad eyesight, this is the reason he employed a pilot, yet he can see what FW failed to !

.

I think (and it's just my opinion) that LA telling him and FW to go search the house again from top to bottom threw him for a loop, in all honesty. By that time, the basement, as well as the house as a whole, had already been searched. JR, in my view, really wasn't expecting that -- and on top of that, he really wasn't expecting FW to search with him. This threw a wrench in his plan, so to speak. I really do think that he panicked -- FW was right there; and it would have looked incredibly suspicious if JR purposefully avoided the wine cellar or told FW to not search there himself, so he panicked because he felt like he was trapped and decided to "find" the body, because he felt as if he had no other choice with FW down there.

I believe that the plan for R's all along, was to dispose of the body. They didn't want the body found. The staging was to cover their tracks, if it ever was found -- either in the house that day, or afterwards (i.e. in an unmarked grave somewhere in a peaceful secluded spot in Colorado or Georgia, etc.).

This has been discussed ad nauseum, but I still can't help but wonder if the body could have been somewhere else before it was moved to the wine cellar.

 

[Cottonstar]

I believe it’s 50/50 that JonBenét was somewhere other than the wine cellar that morning. We already know that JR was down in the basement tinkering with things such as opening the train room window(FW reported closed in his initial search)and likely moving the chair in front of the train room door during his 80 minute disappearance(French, Reichenbach, and White)all reported not seeing the chair in front of the door that morning).

I believe it has been reported that JR actually grabbed FW arm or at least asked him to come with him as he made a beeline for the basement. This would match up behaviorally with like suspects who have killed like subjects. They need to bring someone along for the discovery of the body so that they can testify to said persons shock and horror upon “discovery” of the body. I also believe that JR may have tried to set FW up during that last sequence of discovery.


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[UKGuy]

I think (and it's just my opinion) that LA telling him and FW to go search the house again from top to bottom threw him for a loop, in all honesty. By that time, the basement, as well as the house as a whole, had already been searched. JR, in my view, really wasn't expecting that -- and on top of that, he really wasn't expecting FW to search with him. This threw a wrench in his plan, so to speak. I really do think that he panicked -- FW was right there; and it would have looked incredibly suspicious if JR purposefully avoided the wine cellar or told FW to not search there himself, so he panicked because he felt like he was trapped and decided to "find" the body, because he felt as if he had no other choice with FW down there.

I believe that the plan for R's all along, was to dispose of the body. They didn't want the body found. The staging was to cover their tracks, if it ever was found -- either in the house that day, or afterwards (i.e. in an unmarked grave somewhere in a peaceful secluded spot in Colorado or Georgia, etc.).

This has been discussed ad nauseum, but I still can't help but wonder if the body could have been somewhere else before it was moved to the wine cellar.

Userid,
I reckon she could have been in the crawl space or simply lying beneath or inside something unnoticed?


Best way to view the scenario is if the case is PDI then JR has nothing to worry about, similarly for BDI. So all JR has to do is play safe and stay out of the way.

Except JR has a Plan e.g. move BR out of the house then fly interstate ASAP, which means leaving JonBenet and possibly BR behind, i.e. there is no guarantee BR would be allowed to meet up with an escapist flight?

The R's thought JonBenet might be discovered quickly, hence the early door legal representation, when she was not Plan B was enacted e.g. move BR, and re-arrange the flight plans.

When this was thwarted JR must have reconsidered the forensic status of JonBenet, this might have prompted him to move and re-stage JonBenet in the wine-cellar not realizing FW had already looked in there?

I say re-stage because if you are Patsy ligature strangling JonBenet, why bother with a blanket after tightening and knotting the ligature?

JR could have used the blanket to insulate himself from JonBenet, i.e. that days clothing, as he moved her into the wine-cellar, but when he Found Her he decides to reverse the order of events and unwrap JonBenet thereby giving himself a forensic Get Out Of Jail Card?

JR could have said to FW I've found JonBenet call the police, etc and not touched her. He did not not need to be told she was dead when he carried her upstairs, this could also have been checked in the basement.

JR just seems to continually inject himself into the case in an attempt to create diversions, why so if the case is PDI?

.

 

[UKGuy]

I believe it’s 50/50 that JonBenét was somewhere other than the wine cellar that morning. We already know that JR was down in the basement tinkering with things such as opening the train room window(FW reported closed in his initial search)and likely moving the chair in front of the train room door during his 80 minute disappearance(French, Reichenbach, and White)all reported not seeing the chair in front of the door that morning).

I believe it has been reported that JR actually grabbed FW arm or at least asked him to come with him as he made a beeline for the basement. This would match up behaviorally with like suspects who have killed like subjects. They need to bring someone along for the discovery of the body so that they can testify to said persons shock and horror upon “discovery” of the body. I also believe that JR may have tried to set FW up during that last sequence of discovery.


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Cottonstar,
Yes, I'll bet JR wanted FW to either open the wine-cellar door and/or find JonBenet?

JR finding JonBenet is a classic conclusion to a staged homicide, i.e. the killer finds the body.

If the case is PDI why is JR bothering, he has already been told he is going nowhere, so finding JonBenet at 1:00 PM or 4:00 PM should make no difference to him?

Remember he did not have to find JonBenet, otherwise that would have happened just after discovering the ransom note.

You have Patsy's forensic traces in the form of fibers all over JonBenet in the wine-cellar, then you have JR with telepathic knowledge of what to do and say to explain away awkward evidence and of course he knows where JonBenet is hidden, possibly even relocating her to make finding her less of an act by a guilty person?

Looks to me as if JR and PR are totally involved in JonBenet's death and consequent staging.

.

 

[Userid]

Userid,
I reckon she could have been in the crawl space or simply lying beneath or inside something unnoticed?


Best way to view the scenario is if the case is PDI then JR has nothing to worry about, similarly for BDI. So all JR has to do is play safe and stay out of the way.

Except JR has a Plan e.g. move BR out of the house then fly interstate ASAP, which means leaving JonBenet and possibly BR behind, i.e. there is no guarantee BR would be allowed to meet up with an escapist flight?

The R's thought JonBenet might be discovered quickly, hence the early door legal representation, when she was not Plan B was enacted e.g. move BR, and re-arrange the flight plans.

When this was thwarted JR must have reconsidered the forensic status of JonBenet, this might have prompted him to move and re-stage JonBenet in the wine-cellar not realizing FW had already looked in there?

I say re-stage because if you are Patsy ligature strangling JonBenet, why bother with a blanket after tightening and knotting the ligature?

JR could have used the blanket to insulate himself from JonBenet, i.e. that days clothing, as he moved her into the wine-cellar, but when he Found Her he decides to reverse the order of events and unwrap JonBenet thereby giving himself a forensic Get Out Of Jail Card?

JR could have said to FW I've found JonBenet call the police, etc and not touched her. He did not not need to be told she was dead when he carried her upstairs, this could also have been checked in the basement.

JR just seems to continually inject himself into the case in an attempt to create diversions, why so if the case is PDI?

.

Yes, I feel like she had to be in the crawl space or somewhere close to the basement or the garage. I don't think she could have been moved from upstairs at any time while all those people were inside the house, but then again, and with that back spiral staircase, you never know. Sometimes, I feel like she was purposefully moved to the wine cellar because someone in the family already knew it had been searched, and figured it wouldn't be searched again.

I wish I could answer more of your questions but in all honesty, I'm not really thinking about the case in those terms (i.e. why a particular action was or wasn't done with regard to a particular scenario of PDI, BDI, JDI). I think in any scenario, other than if he was completely "in the dark" about the whole thing (which I've never personally believed), he would be an accessory regardless -- so he'd have basically as much to lose as the killer.

I do think it's curious how he reacted when he found JBR. Why wouldn't he at least attempt CPR? Even if you don't know CPR -- your own daughter is lying there unconscious and blue....wouldn't any parent at least attempt mouth-to-mouth and chest compression resuscitation, as opposed to running up the stairs and rattling her body awkwardly as you bring her upstairs? Everyone knows the general way to perform CPR. Why would he move the body, and move her the way he did -- carrying her up like she was an object and holding her far away from your body, as if he didn't want to come in contact with her? Even if she was stiff, he still could have held her close to his own body while wrapping his arms around her, but he despicably held her out like she was a piece of wood or something. He could have just told FW to go get help, as you alluded. It could have been because he was trying to contaminate her, etc. -- but I think it was more due to sheer panic. His worst fear had been confirmed -- the body had been found -- so he panicked and tried his best to resemble what a normal oblivious father would do, which completely backfired -- because he was anything but a normal oblivious father.

 

[UKGuy]

Yes, I feel like she had to be in the crawl space or somewhere close to the basement or the garage. I don't think she could have been moved from upstairs at any time while all those people were inside the house, but then again, and with that back spiral staircase, you never know. Sometimes, I feel like she was purposefully moved to the wine cellar because someone in the family already knew it had been searched, and figured it wouldn't be searched again.

I wish I could answer more of your questions but in all honesty, I'm not really thinking about the case in those terms (i.e. why a particular action was or wasn't done with regard to a particular scenario of PDI, BDI, JDI). I think in any scenario, other than if he was completely "in the dark" about the whole thing (which I've never personally believed), he would be an accessory regardless -- so he'd have basically as much to lose as the killer.

I do think it's curious how he reacted when he found JBR. Why wouldn't he at least attempt CPR? Even if you don't know CPR -- your own daughter is lying there unconscious and blue....wouldn't any parent at least attempt mouth-to-mouth and chest compression resuscitation, as opposed to running up the stairs and rattling her body awkwardly as you bring her upstairs? Everyone knows the general way to perform CPR. Why would he move the body, and move her the way he did -- carrying her up like she was an object and holding her far away from your body, as if he didn't want to come in contact with her? Even if she was stiff, he still could have held her close to his own body while wrapping his arms around her, but he despicably held her out like she was a piece of wood or something. He could have just told FW to go get help, as you alluded. It could have been because he was trying to contaminate her, etc. -- but I think it was more due to sheer panic. His worst fear had been confirmed -- the body had been found -- so he panicked and tried his best to resemble what a normal oblivious father would do, which completely backfired -- because he was anything but a normal oblivious father.

Userid,
Thats the thing about JR, he never did what was expected of an innocent dad. On finding JonBenet he never shouted for a doctor, Oh no, he carried her upstairs, was there a doctor upstairs, what is it all about?

Technically if you are RDI, JR never found JonBenet he just retrieved her. FW was so surpised he went back to double-check and he must have been mentally comparing then with earlier that morning.

All the stuff JR talks about, e.g. suitcase, chair, broken window, finding JonBenet are all diversions from a man who is meant to know nothing because he just awoke to a ransom note!

His most recent revelation is that he put BR to bed using the flashlight, but he never explained how it managed to find its way back down to the kitchen?

if the case is JDI or PDI then I reckon BR will eventually open up and drop hints since he will have nothing to hide or any charges to avoid.

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