The Sidebar - Harris Trial #2

[monkeypants]

Just a quick point to make, not directed at anyone -

If RH had to KNOW that he would be investigated, and therefore wouldn't have kept inciminating evidence on his phone...

Why didn't he KNOW his kid was in the car.

Why didn't he KNOW that he had illegal activity sending pictures of his junk to minors. Multiple minors. Regardless of Cooper, he's so tech savvy that he would commit a crime (minors) and leave it on his phone?

Why didn't he KNOW he left evidence of solicitation of a prostitute?

Why didn't he KNOW he needed to actually perform at work instead of coming in late. (By the way, he left his house at 8:30 am, and didn't get the email for push back of his morning meeting until 8:34. Even in interviews with LE, he stated he knew by 7:50 am that he was going to be late to work).

I'll tell you why all of those things are still there, even though he KNEW Cooper was in the backseat at 9am. RH felt superior, smart and above reproach. RH could hide his actions from a suspicious wife, he could play grieving father well enough to fool anyone. He fools people all the time. He fools his job into paying him to do nothing. He fools his wife into putting up with his crap. He fools minors to send him explicit photos, he fools strangers into having sex with him. He fools people to go into business with him. Why would he NOT believe he lives in a world of puppets? Why would he think for a minute, that LE WOULDN'T buy what he tried to sell?


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[Boodles]

Can I please ask a question I'm sorry if I have missed this I'm sure it's been covered very well. Were the Prosecutors able to pull video of how RH normally got in and out of his car at work on a normal day? & if so were the jury able to compare it to how he got in the car putting the lightbulbs in and when he found little Cooper on that tragic day?

Apologies in advance if this has been covered already I've not been able to cover to case as closely as I wanted due to health issues. Any replies much appreciated. This is a very difficult case thanks so much to all of you for your in depth analysis.

Very good question. I'd be interested to see such video.

 

[arkansasmimi]

I am curious as to what evidence compelled LE to upgrade charges to malicious at a later date. Even without the F_ck You comment, RH would have been brought in for questioning. Once Stoddard saw June 18 a.m texting, no doubt, Stoddard had evidence RH had distracted himself from parenting responsibilities. But what compelling evidence supports upgrading to malicious? I can obviously see adding the sexting minor's charges later on.

LT Ferrell (at time LT, now a Captain) testified that it was a criminal case from the very beginning because a child was left in the car. Phil Holloway an attorney who knows all the players except RH, said this was Stoddards first Murder case. Going back and reviewing, it did start at the FU going down hill. Curious what any of the other parents have said. Also I wonder when GA got 2nd Degree Murder? Stoddard told RH that GA didn't have degrees ... Also there was a sentencing change, passed by Leg and signed by Gov April 22, 2014 that went into effect July 1, 2014 changing from Mandatory Life to xx years... But RH is being charged under the Mandatory Life... (this was brought up in Aug 19, 2016 PreTrial Hearing by Lumpkin, Boring argued that the Motion was not ripe yet and Judge Staley agreed... If RH is found guilty, that will def be brought up again. JMHO

ETA: the whole "Whisper red image" that Stoddard initially believed RH posted is where the malice came from. JMHO And State stuck with it...

 

[arkansasmimi]

Quote Originally Posted by gregjrichards View Post
Can I please ask a question I'm sorry if I have missed this I'm sure it's been covered very well. Were the Prosecutors able to pull video of how RH normally got in and out of his car at work on a normal day? & if so were the jury able to compare it to how he got in the car putting the lightbulbs in and when he found little Cooper on that tragic day?

Apologies in advance if this has been covered already I've not been able to cover to case as closely as I wanted due to health issues. Any replies much appreciated. This is a very difficult case thanks so much to all of you for your in depth analysis

Very good question. I'd be interested to see such video.

RBBM. The Def did show a video of RH on another morning. And it was 30 sec it took him to gather his stuff and get out of car after parking. Same amount of time that was 6/18/14. State blew it off. JMHO

 

[Boodles]

I wanted to also add, someone mentioned earlier that RH made the CF stop because he planned this last minute somewhat impulsively that day. I just do not see this as an impulsive way
to murder someone, if one can wait the whole work day for someone to bake to death, then I think they could wait till the next morning so they could do it without the stop to CF or without going to the car at lunch.

If he could go out at lunch and decide his "audience" wasn't acceptable, go back in to work, then redo the "discovery scene" later on, it just isn't impulsive to me. This is all so very very far fetched and convoluted to me.

I think it was a combination of alibi-building ("look how much I love my son, I'm such a good father, I took him for a daddy-son breakfast at CFA cos he loves CFA and our daddy-son breakfasts"), and a "farewell" gesture to Cooper, doing something for him, even though the pig ate Cooper's sausage biscuit (from what others here have said).

...kinda like how Casey Anthony (may have) given stickers to Caylee before she murdered her.

 

[DaleTray]

LT Ferrell (at time LT, now a Captain) testified that it was a criminal case from the very beginning because a child was left in the car. Phil Holloway an attorney who knows all the players except RH, said this was Stoddards first Murder case. Going back and reviewing, it did start at the FU going down hill. Curious what any of the other parents have said. Also I wonder when GA got 2nd Degree Murder? Stoddard told RH that GA didn't have degrees ... Also there was a sentencing change, passed by Leg and signed by Gov April 22, 2014 that went into effect July 1, 2014 changing from Mandatory Life to xx years... But RH is being charged under the Mandatory Life... (this was brought up in Aug 19, 2016 PreTrial Hearing by Lumpkin, Boring argued that the Motion was not ripe yet and Judge Staley agreed... If RH is found guilty, that will def be brought up again. JMHO

ETA: the whole "Whisper red image" that Stoddard initially believed RH posted is where the malice came from. JMHO And State stuck with it...

Well, in that case, when RH was doing his murder pre-planning, he should have waited until after July 1 to ensure not to receive the mandatory life sentence.

 

[JerseyGirl]

some updated information from yesterday:

Prior to lunch, it appeared that tensions were high with the jury after one juror was seen crying during a break on Thursday. After lunch, the jury asked to replay surveillance video that shows Harris going to his car at lunch the day his child was left in the car.

Deliberations were interrupted twice Wednesday so the jury could watch two videos again: one of Justin Ross Harris being interrogated and another of him talking with his now ex-wife in the interview room.

Jurors at this point were sitting up, leaning forward in their chairs looking closely at Harris’ actions. Two female jurors were reading ahead in the transcript, looking for a certain area that interested them.

"I knew I had done what every parent in their life fears they have done and that's leave their son in a car all day," Harris said on the interrogation tape.
During that part of the tape, a young juror forgot his notepad and decided to take notes on his arm to remember this portion.

http://www.wbrc.com/story/33672021/...ss-harris-trial-jury-returns-thursday-morning

 

[arkansasmimi]

This was from when the jury was going to see the car. Really makes me angry that a reporter, stated that they saw the juror alleged crying and another juror was consoling. That jmho puts more stress on a jury that I would think already has that in the back of their minds. JMHO **ETA I do realize the judge is speaking of taking photos and that the reporter ^^ didn't photograph but still ...
Oct 25, 2016
3:32 p.m.
Let’s talk about the media, Staley Clark said. “No jurors are to be depicted in anyway by the media,” she said. And they need to be at an appropriate distance. http://www.ajc.com/news/breaking-ne...rris-murder-trial-oct/Dmo0qRDQuDAgfBiBSbsmiP/

 

[JerseyGirl]

According to the Cobb County district attorney's office, if Ross is found guilty on all eight charges and given the maximum sentence to run consecutively, he would get life without parole, plus 42 years.

If he's found guilty on any of the murder charges, he would get life, or life without parole. Georgia law says you must serve 30 years before being eligible for parole.

The maximum sentence for each charge is below:

Charges 1, 2 and 3
Life with parole possible after 30 years.

Charge 4
5-20 years

Charge 5
1-10 years

Charge 6
1-10 years

Charge 7 and 8
12 months each

http://www.wbrc.com/story/33672021/...ss-harris-trial-jury-returns-thursday-morning

 

[gregjrichards]

RBBM. The Def did show a video of RH on another morning. And it was 30 sec it took him to gather his stuff and get out of car after parking. Same amount of time that was 6/18/14. State blew it off. JMHO

Thanks so much for your reply.

 

[blue22]

Grand Jury UPDATE... :thinking: thought there was no 2nd Degree Murder in GA? Curious since he "was drunk" and had drugs, did they look at his phone too? (serious, not being snarky)

Father charged with 2nd degree murder in deaths of twins left in hot car
Updated: Sep 1, 2016 - 12:50 PM

CARROLL COUNTY, Ga. - A Carrollton man has now been charged with two counts of murder in the second degree the deaths of his twin girls left in a hot car in August.

The grand jury recommended of second degree murder, two counts of cruelty to children in the second degree and one count of possession of less than one ounce of marijuana for Asa North.

Carrollton police told Channel 2 Action News that North's 15-month-old twin daughters Ariel & Alaynah were found unresponsive after being left in a hot car on Tillman Drive.

Officers said they got the call at about 6:30 p.m., and arrived at the complex to find neighbors trying to cool the girls down.

They were in a wading pool and using ice packs to try to lower the girls' body temperatures, but police said it was too late. The twins were taken to Tanner Medical Center in Carrollton where they were both pronounced dead.

North was previously charged with two counts of involuntary manslaughter and reckless conduct.
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/fat...-in-deaths-of-twins-left-in-hot-car/434878868

Father Indicted in Twins' Hot Car Death
Asa North is facing second-degree murder charges for leaving the girls in a hot car outside a Carrollton apartment complex.
By Tim Darnell (Patch Staff) - September 1, 2016 11:38 am ET

CARROLLTON, GA — The father of twin girls who died in a hot SUV last month in Carrollton has been indicted on second-degree murder charges.

Carroll County DA Pete Skandalakis made the announcement Thursday morning, according to WSB.

Asa North was also indicted on two counts of cruelty to children and possession of less than an ounce of marijuana.

North allegedly left the girls in the backseat of an SUV on Aug. 4 while their mother was visiting her sister at Grady Memorial Hospital in Atlanta, according to police. Police also say North was drunk at the time.

Police were called to an apartment complex around 6:30 p.m. and neighbors trying to cool the girls down in the pool with ice packs.
http://patch.com/georgia/atlanta/father-indicted-twins-hot-car-death

The second degree murder statute was added in 2014 after Ross was indicted, I believe. I don't think it was an option for him.

 

[arkansasmimi]

Quote Originally Posted by arkansasmimi View Post
LT Ferrell (at time LT, now a Captain) testified that it was a criminal case from the very beginning because a child was left in the car. Phil Holloway an attorney who knows all the players except RH, said this was Stoddards first Murder case. Going back and reviewing, it did start at the FU going down hill. Curious what any of the other parents have said. Also I wonder when GA got 2nd Degree Murder? Stoddard told RH that GA didn't have degrees ... Also there was a sentencing change, passed by Leg and signed by Gov April 22, 2014 that went into effect July 1, 2014 changing from Mandatory Life to xx years... But RH is being charged under the Mandatory Life... (this was brought up in Aug 19, 2016 PreTrial Hearing by Lumpkin, Boring argued that the Motion was not ripe yet and Judge Staley agreed... If RH is found guilty, that will def be brought up again. JMHO

ETA: the whole "Whisper red image" that Stoddard initially believed RH posted is where the malice came from. JMHO And State stuck with it...

Well, in that case, when RH was doing his murder pre-planning, he should have waited until after July 1 to ensure not to receive the mandatory life sentence.

Well snap, just one more thing he forgot to Google...:facepalm:

 

[gregjrichards]

This was from when the jury was going to see the car. Really makes me angry that a reporter, stated that they saw the juror alleged crying and another juror was consoling. That jmho puts more stress on a jury that I would think already has that in the back of their minds. JMHO **ETA I do realize the judge is speaking of taking photos and that the reporter ^^ didn't photograph but still ...
Oct 25, 2016
3:32 p.m.
Let’s talk about the media, Staley Clark said. “No jurors are to be depicted in anyway by the media,” she said. And they need to be at an appropriate distance. http://www.ajc.com/news/breaking-ne...rris-murder-trial-oct/Dmo0qRDQuDAgfBiBSbsmiP/

I agree with you this is outrageous.

According to the Cobb County district attorney's office, if Ross is found guilty on all eight charges and given the maximum sentence to run consecutively, he would get life without parole, plus 42 years.

If he's found guilty on any of the murder charges, he would get life, or life without parole. Georgia law says you must serve 30 years before being eligible for parole.

The maximum sentence for each charge is below:

Charges 1, 2 and 3
Life with parole possible after 30 years.

Charge 4
5-20 years

Charge 5
1-10 years

Charge 6
1-10 years

Charge 7 and 8
12 months each

http://www.wbrc.com/story/33672021/...ss-harris-trial-jury-returns-thursday-morning

This is very interesting thank you. I hope the jury aren't overwhelmed with the various charges and jury instructions.

 

[Hatfield]

Just as a reminder to anyone coming to check on status of the jury deliberations:

"They will not be in court Friday because of Veteran's Day. Deliberations will resume at 8:30 a.m. Monday."

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/ross-harr...-in-ross-harris-hot-car-death-trial/465941119

 

[TexMex]

According to the Cobb County district attorney's office, if Ross is found guilty on all eight charges and given the maximum sentence to run consecutively, he would get life without parole, plus 42 years.

If he's found guilty on any of the murder charges, he would get life, or life without parole. Georgia law says you must serve 30 years before being eligible for parole.

The maximum sentence for each charge is below:

Charges 1, 2 and 3
Life with parole possible after 30 years.

Charge 4
5-20 years

Charge 5
1-10 years

Charge 6
1-10 years

Charge 7 and 8
12 months each

http://www.wbrc.com/story/33672021/...ss-harris-trial-jury-returns-thursday-morning

In one of the CC videos with Phil Holloway (a Georgia defense attorney)he explains that while it's theoretically possible for Ross to be found guilty on counts 4 or 5 and not guilty on counts 2 or 3 it's also unlikely. The child cruelty charges are meant to be the underlying felonies to the felony murder charges

 

[MsMtOlympus]

some updated information from yesterday:

Prior to lunch, it appeared that tensions were high with the jury after one juror was seen crying during a break on Thursday. After lunch, the jury asked to replay surveillance video that shows Harris going to his car at lunch the day his child was left in the car.

Deliberations were interrupted twice Wednesday so the jury could watch two videos again: one of Justin Ross Harris being interrogated and another of him talking with his now ex-wife in the interview room.

Jurors at this point were sitting up, leaning forward in their chairs looking closely at Harris’ actions. Two female jurors were reading ahead in the transcript, looking for a certain area that interested them.

"I knew I had done what every parent in their life fears they have done and that's leave their son in a car all day," Harris said on the interrogation tape.
During that part of the tape, a young juror forgot his notepad and decided to take notes on his arm to remember this portion.

http://www.wbrc.com/story/33672021/...ss-harris-trial-jury-returns-thursday-morning

"I knew I had done what every parent in their life fears they have done and that's leave their son in a car all day,"

Harris sounds as though he's speaking at an advocacy conference years after the fact. At the very least, this comment certainly doesn't sound like something a grieving parent says mere hours after discovering and their own child's body.

 

[arkansasmimi]

Hope4More, GA Peach or Minor4.. or anyone else, I know that we have talked about... but I have been looking to refind the video... it is Lumpkin and Boring.. going over the sentencing. It was where Lumpkin told about the change in law going into effect July 1 2014 on sentencing. There was case law showing where the Mandatory Life was cruel punishment. And the various other charges under GA statutes was less than what the State was going for on old statute. The State argued that the Motion was not Ripe, Lumpkin argued a case where if had not brought up prior that case missed their window to argue. Judge Statley sided with the State and deemed it not ripe at the time and would come back to it, if and when a guilty verdict.

I will look a little bit longer then I will just have to come back to it. Going to work in my yard when warms up a little more lol since no court today Thanks if anyone remembers when that one was.

 

[Hope4More]

Just a quick point to make, not directed at anyone -

If RH had to KNOW that he would be investigated, and therefore wouldn't have kept inciminating evidence on his phone...

Either RH paid attention in May and June to the newly launched hot car death campaign (and anything before) and educated himself on hot car deaths, or he did not.

If he did pay attention, he learned that each hot car incident in GA was going to be investigated. As in --investigated, not merely having a non-confrontational chat with LE.

Relating to phone. Can’t have it both and all ways on that either. Though knowing if he killed Cooper an investigation would follow, RH not only didn’t delete evidence of criminal activity on his phone on or before June 18th, he added to it that day by sexting again with a minor. It is objectively true that RH looked up the criminal statutes relating to his illegal behavior with minors, so knew he’d face prison if caught.

For the sake of the argument, let’s say RH was arrogant or whatever enough to leave intact the evidence of his crimes on his phone, because he believed there was no reason to fear his phone ending up in LE’s hands, no matter the nature of that inevitable investigation.

To the scene, allegedly being staged by a man who had at least all that day to consider how to play these moments, including the arrival of LE. He gets on his phone. LE instructs him to get off the phone. RH isn’t distraught; he’s just play acting.


But instead of telling, even screaming at LE—PLEASE, I NEED TO TELL MY WIFE! OMG! HOW CAN I TELL HER THIS?? Ross says-F-uck you to LE, and according to LE, takes threatening steps towards Officer Foglia. While refusing to put his phone away. The phone with evidence of criminal activity.



Why didn't he KNOW his kid was in the car.

Because sometimes the best of the best parents accidentally leave their children in hot cars. It happens. And—this point has no relevance to KNOWING he’d be investigated, except in the knowing he would be investigated.

Why didn't he KNOW that he had illegal activity sending pictures of his junk to minors. Multiple minors. Regardless of Cooper, he's so tech savvy that he would commit a crime (minors) and leave it on his phone?

Why didn't he KNOW he left evidence of solicitation of a prostitute?

Yes, he knew these things were illegal and left them on his phone. Why indeed? Perhaps because he didn’t kill Cooper on purpose and had no reason to fear anyone having his phone long enough to find all this evidence hidden under the weather tile? After all, it took LE months to find this concealed stash.



Why didn't he KNOW he needed to actually perform at work instead of coming in late. (By the way, he left his house at 8:30 am, and didn't get the email for push back of his morning meeting until 8:34. Even in interviews with LE, he stated he knew by 7:50 am that he was going to be late to work).

He knew, I must imagine, the same way I have to imagine he knew the handwriting was on the wall for his job at HD.

Yes, IMO the 8:34 email likely changed his breakfast plans with Cooper. He said at 7:54 he was running later “than he wanted to be,” because he thought he had a 10AM meeting, but had spent the time after Leanna left texting like crazy rather than getting himself and Cooper out the door on time.

He left, he gets the email, plans change, he’s not in any hurry now. And BTW, he wasn’t going to be “late” in any case. RH had a flexible schedule, could arrive and leave as he pleased, (which is probably part of the reason he was an unappreciated employee there).


I'll tell you why all of those things are still there, even though he KNEW Cooper was in the backseat at 9am. RH felt superior, smart and above reproach. RH could hide his actions from a suspicious wife, he could play grieving father well enough to fool anyone. He fools people all the time. He fools his job into paying him to do nothing. He fools his wife into putting up with his crap. He fools minors to send him explicit photos, he fools strangers into having sex with him. He fools people to go into business with him. Why would he NOT believe he lives in a world of puppets? Why would he think for a minute, that LE WOULDN'T buy what he tried to sell?


In fact, he didn’t fool his employers (passed over for a promotion, his project managers ticked off with him for not doing his share of work); Leanna made her own choices, knowing he had already demonstrated his willingness to go outside the marriage and to hide it from her; he hooked up with minors online because the minors were themselves online, and they knew he wasn’t a minor, but a married adult man (his responsibility, but no " fooling "going on there); how do you fool a prostitute into having sex with you? Or an online hookup you invite over to your house to have sex?; and his friends weren’t “fooled" by RH to go into business with him. Their choice, and one they were perfectly OK with.


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(Bold and underlined are my replies)


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Seems to me the only person RH ever seemed capable of fooling was himself, but I think the more apt word for that is “denial.” He wasn’t a puppeteer; he was a man who apparently felt he couldn’t even control anything in his own life.

 

[monkeypants]

Toaster oven or just toaster? I'm confused. I got rid of my toaster cause it was so very hot on the outside and only use a toaster oven now. (looking suspiciously at my appliances).

Well way back then it was toaster idk if we had toaster ovens really then.

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[monkeypants]

Toaster oven or just toaster? I'm confused. I got rid of my toaster cause it was so very hot on the outside and only use a toaster oven now. (looking suspiciously at my appliances).

I unplug everything once done anyhow just in case out of habit and I hate stuff in counters for the most part as well

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