The Sidebar - Harris Trial #2

[Hope4More]

BBM: I do, that is one reason why I find him guilty on all accounts

That right there, spunky Doll, is why I think you rock.

 

[gregjrichards]

Along this same vein, did Ross have his bag (laptop bag) when he went home for the day (;eft for movies)? How did he enter the car? I can't imagine he would enter the car with the bag still on his hip (I'm blonde, I've done this before--you end up sitting on the bag)--so that would require leaning into the car to put it on the passenger seat/center console area (egads!), or passenger floor area. And how does this compare to how he normally entered the car with his bag at the end of the day?

Great questions. I think how RH got in and out the car is going to be a major point and a problem for him. I hope the members of the jury speak after the verdict was reached it will be interesting to know how they reached their conclusions.

 

[Hatfield]

BBM: I understand this point and agree it is compelling. But in the cases of other parents in similar forgotten baby situations the parent also drove a deceased baby in the car after a day at work and also did not notice an odor. In the case in our hometown a few months ago the mother spent a day at work and then drove to the day care to pick up her baby, forgetting that she had never dropped him off. Only after going into the day care center and being told she did not bring him did she discover him in the car.

So I am just pointing out that this in itself is not an indicator of guilt unless we are to believe these other parents are also guilty of murdering their baby.

Thats interesting to know. Thanks.

I had also wondered if the chief magistrate was just thinking that. The first responders would be the best people to ask about how bad or not bad the smell really was in the vehicle.

 

[EquallyDivided]

So, Cooper was in an enclosed vehicle for 3 hrs and 40 (ish) minutes at the point that RH came back from lunch and opened the door?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

 

[pocketaccent]

Along this same vein, did Ross have his bag (laptop bag) when he went home for the day (;eft for movies)? How did he enter the car? I can't imagine he would enter the car with the bag still on his hip (I'm blonde, I've done this before--you end up sitting on the bag)--so that would require leaning into the car to put it on the passenger seat/center console area (egads!), or passenger floor area. And how does this compare to how he normally entered the car with his bag at the end of the day?

I don't have answers to your questions, but:
(Watch from 54:00 to 55:10)

Car door starts to open at 4:15:59 pm.
Car door shuts at 4:16:03 pm.
Car starts moving at 4:16:06 pm.

It took him only 4 seconds to move the lightbulb bag to the passenger seat (was it was on the driver's seat?), place his laptop bag on the passenger side, sit himself down, and close the door. He is very fast at getting outta there.

[video=youtube;kotSKy2rdoY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kotSKy2rdoY[/video]

 

[Zoobiegirl]

So it seems like jurors want to know if Mr Sexty knew his child was in that car during the light bulb fiasco.

But my question is.

Why mess with your coworkers time schedule so you can pick up light bulbs?

Because he could have picked them up after work or before work.

Now he forgets everything but remembers to have someone else wait for him so he can get light bulbs at lunch?

Btw. When Leanna asked him about if he got to work.

Why didn't he do the dad bravado and text her back about how him and Cooper had a wonderful breakfast together?

I wondered why when he and LH did their afternoon what time you picking up Cooper chat he didn't brag and say "hey, I remembered the light bulbs!" but just wondered.

Any thoughts on him saying this as he struggled to get Cooper out: "she's going to kill me!" Seems odd to have that uppermost in his thoughts rather than Cooper.

 

[Zoobiegirl]

Thanks! Tylenol isn't doing its thang after 42 mins...surprising...but on the upside dad did great in surgery! What a week so far...election, surgery, sickness ...please no hung jury

Will be thinking of your Dad and son.

 

[Zoobiegirl]

When my next door neighbors home burned, the cause was from their coffee pot being plugged in. I was shocked, but the Fire Chief showed us... no coffee pot plugged in for me until ready to use it ever since.

I was going to say we had a fire safety expert come talk at our church and he said the thing he personally had seen the most fires cause by was the coffee maker. At that time would have been the Mr. Coffee type. I would think the pod kind are safer since they only brew one cup, but don't know.

 

[Zoobiegirl]

Huh that's exactly what my uncle said would happen....fascinating....

Toaster oven or just toaster? I'm confused. I got rid of my toaster cause it was so very hot on the outside and only use a toaster oven now. (looking suspiciously at my appliances).

 

[PenElaine]

He may not have planned to leave him in the car before going to breakfast. It may have been an impulsive decision, triggered by the feelings he was expressing in the Whisper app. He may have pondered it for awhile, but only decided to do so that morning, when he was pulling out of the lot.

All the stresses were hitting him at once---stress from his job, unhappiness with his marriage---and Cooper was the one thing that prevented him from leaving all of that stress behind. He could quit his job, be single, and travel around as an advocate for child safety, just by 'accidentally' on purpose, forgetting to drop him off.

Very late catching up so sorry if my comments have been addressed already. Respectfully Katy but I think he planned it to happen that day.
- he wanted the ChikFiLA visit on video - either "great Dad" moment or "out of the ordinary routine" scenario established (for goodness sake, this was the FIRST TIME the manager, who claimed to know RH as a regular customer quite well, had ever met Cooper)
- the plan for a movie mid-week with friends was out of the ordinary (ref LH- RH texts and her testimony) So much hinky-ness from my memory of that text exchange but sorry, don't know how to access it for reference. But in recall, it seemed so strange! (Paraphrase from memory: "Can I go? 22 Jump Street!") IMO, a set-up for making life plans to look ordinary for a day he knew was going to end far from ordinary.
- his research in the early morning hours that dreadful day about passports/cruises may have been another set-up for "why would I do this when just hours before I was researching how to bring him on vacation with us?"
- the Wednesday work day of meetings that were planned then rescheduled starting with the late night/ very early morning hour text from RH to his boss that he wouldn't be ready for his FIRST EVER assigned lead on a project conference call/meeting. Late arrival to work, sexting, off-premise lunch (so long as he doesn't have to drive - "Convince me" he writes.) Additional lunch hour time wasted driving to Home Depot store for light bulbs + stopping to drop off bulbs at car (???!!!) More sexting or chats or phone calls (including to LH "when are you picking up my buddy?"), lots of Internet chat with work buddies re movie. Leaving early from work for movie - all sounds like someone who isn't too concerned about not meeting a significant work deadline cuz HIS LIFE WILL BE DRASTICALLY CHANGED AT THE END OF THE DAY!!!

And thoughts that may or may not be related to premeditation.
- knew he would be late for work BEFORE he put Cooper back to bed for some extra sleep that morning. Why didn't he shave while Cooper slept in? Probably too busy with his "activities" to bother. - Also odd - they both mentioned Cooper slept in their bed that night but after LH left for work, RH moved the baby to his own room to continue sleeping. He said (somewhere - interrogation? LH-RH jailhouse tape?) they were watching cartoons together. Maybe moved him so he could "enjoy" his sexting convos (or perhaps *advertiser censored* viewing.. were their TV cable bill/DVR records ever reviewed?
- contradictory comments on when/where Cooper ate breakfast. ME's report would indicate that this poor baby ate very little that morning.
- why did he leave possible incriminating evidence on his devices? Three thoughts, all IMO reasonable. 1) didn't think he would be investigated (tragic accident). 2) missing hard drive (read that somewhere - apologies if I'm wrong) 3) left just enough to not look suspicious. Clearing histories on any device would be problematic. He admitted (as did LH) there were searches re hot car deaths.

Sorry for so much speculation but I believe this was planned and I also think that put-upon, subservient LH isn't fully innocent but I am willing to suspend that thought for the sake of justice for that darling baby.
MOOOOOO

 

[Zoobiegirl]

Also, Arias had plenty of people come forward saying she was a crazy stalking weirdo. Not one person said anything like that about RH.

I can see someone horrible trying hot car death as a way kill a child and possibly get off, or face less of a sentence than other methods. I just do not understand why
he didn't just drive straight to work, and just go out to the car after work like normal. I also do not understand why he would not clear his phone history, even if he thought
he could get off, he had to know it wasn't just going to happen automatically and that his phone would be looked at.

Why? I didn't know prior to this that these cases were treated as anymore than a terrible accident. The vet video just shows how fast the inside of the car heats up. There are several videos that stress this and how dangerous it it to pets and children but I can't recall any that say hey this is a crime and you will be extensively investigated. I would have assumed you went home after going to the hospital or morgue, grieved, had a funeral and then tried to go on with your life

I'm not trying to be argumentative but I have seen that "he had to know" used a lot and personally I know I didn't know so why are we assuming he had to?.

 

[Zoobiegirl]

I would agree if there were not also the reasonable conclusion that it was actually an accident.

If the jurors can't find any reason for Ross to kill his son - nothing to gain, but something very valuable to lose - then I think they will have a really hard time with a verdict of malice murder.

I'm not familiar with the case you mentioned but IMO it is much easier to understand an unfaithful husband killing his wife instead of divorcing her. Happens all the time. Unfaithful husband killing his toddler son, who by all accounts he was thrilled with? Doesn't make sense.

A lot of people are thrilled with their pets but when they become inconvenient they drop them off at the shelter where they know it's more than likely they will be put down. Used to live out in the country and an awful lot of older dogs got dropped. I know pets aren't toddlers but for some people "thrilled" only goes so far.

 

[jbelle]

Yes, I truly believe that any reasonable adult would know that if a child died on their watch there is going to be an investigation. Since many are speculating that
RH researched these deaths then he especially would know that there is often a court case or at the very least an investigation into whether there should be a case.

I have a pool. I know if God forbid something happened to my son in that pool when we were alone, LE would check if I was neglecting him. They'd at least have a look at my phone and computer, they would not just say, well ok, have a good day and cart him off. I can't imagine someone thinking they can leave their child in a car to die with zero investigation after. That's just crazy to me.

What I CAN see is someone wanting to purposely make a hot car death eventually be determined an accident. If RH had not said "F-you" to those cops and if he had no sexting or images of minors on his phone, he would be in a FAR better position today than he is. That is why I do not think it was planned. I feel if he plotted and planned it he would have had a better response worked out to LE than "f-you", he would have made sure there was no sexts/pics to/from minors. He would have driven from home straight to work, no stops, and he would have simply returned to his car after 4 like normal. If he did those very simple things, I think this would have been deemed an accident VERY early on.

 

[jbelle]

I wanted to also add, someone mentioned earlier that RH made the CF stop because he planned this last minute somewhat impulsively that day. I just do not see this as an impulsive way
to murder someone, if one can wait the whole work day for someone to bake to death, then I think they could wait till the next morning so they could do it without the stop to CF or without going to the car at lunch.

If he could go out at lunch and decide his "audience" wasn't acceptable, go back in to work, then redo the "discovery scene" later on, it just isn't impulsive to me. This is all so very very far fetched and convoluted to me.

 

[Zoobiegirl]

Yes, I truly believe that any reasonable adult would know that if a child died on their watch there is going to be an investigation. Since many are speculating that
RH researched these deaths then he especially would know that there is often a court case or at the very least an investigation into whether there should be a case.

I have a pool. I know if God forbid something happened to my son in that pool when we were alone, LE would check if I was neglecting him. They'd at least have a look at my phone and computer, they would not just say, well ok, have a good day and cart him off. I can't imagine someone thinking they can leave their child in a car to die with zero investigation after. That's just crazy to me.

What I CAN see is someone wanting to purposely make a hot car death eventually be determined an accident. If RH had not said "F-you" to those cops and if he had no sexting or images of minors on his phone, he would be in a FAR better position today than he is. That is why I do not think it was planned. I feel if he plotted and planned it he would have had a better response worked out to LE than "f-you", he would have made sure there was no sexts/pics to/from minors. He would have driven from home straight to work, no stops, and he would have simply returned to his car after 4 like normal. If he did those very simple things, I think this would have been deemed an accident VERY early on.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I am reasonable, I am an adult, and I didn't know. Barring use of alcohol, drugs, or leaving a child in a car deliberately, I would have thought it was assumed to be a tragic accident unless it obviously seemed hinky (such as some of Ross's actions seemed. Also, I do not think my thoughts are "crazy." That sounds very prejudicial.

 

[katydid23]

I wanted to also add, someone mentioned earlier that RH made the CF stop because he planned this last minute somewhat impulsively that day. I just do not see this as an impulsive way
to murder someone, if one can wait the whole work day for someone to bake to death, then I think they could wait till the next morning so they could do it without the stop to CF or without going to the car at lunch.

If he could go out at lunch and decide his "audience" wasn't acceptable, go back in to work, then redo the "discovery scene" later on, it just isn't impulsive to me. This is all so very very far fetched and convoluted to me.

But why would he want to skip CF? One of the main components of FBS is 'change of routine.' There'd e no change of routine if he had driven from home, without the stop at CF. jmo

 

[scandinavian girl]

Nope. They are showing videos of him leaving work, and then walking out to his car and leaving. And they were discussing him leaving. His friends car is not there. he walks alone up to his car, gets in and drives away. Starts about minute 51-56.

I missed that and have been wondering why they didn´t show it, now I watched the timestamp and there it was. Thank you for pointing it out. IMO he has the door open for quite awhile. Have to see it again.

 

[Rayemonde]

We don't know how much RH knew about hot car deaths, do we? LE said he had searched Google for the topic, but that turned out not to be true, didn't it?

We know that he watched the vet video, he told LE that he had recently watched something (on TV I think) about a parent who left their child in a hot car and then became an advocate. I wonder what that was... Did LE or the defence not bother to track that down to see exactly what information it contained? I wonder if it mentioned parents being investigated.


Eta I tried looking up hot car deaths in Georgia prior to Cooper's, because maybe RH would have seen them in the news and been familiar with the circumstances (or maybe not... Who can know). So far I only found one in 2008 where a foster mother left a baby (Jessica Scovil) in a car, and there was a lot of outrage in the press from the bio parents demanding that she be charged, and she was charged with
involuntary man-slaughter and reckless conduct. In 2010 she pleaded guilty to a single count of misdemeanor involuntary manslaughter. She got a year of probation, 200 hours of community service an a $1,000 fine.

It's hard to Google any hot car deaths at the moment because most of the hits are about RH.

http://onlineathens.com/stories/090508/new_328706107.shtml#.WCWn4hmnzqC

 

[arkansasmimi]

We don't know how much RH knew about hot car deaths, do we? LE said he had searched Google for the topic, but that turned out not to be true, didn't it?

We know that he watched the vet video, he told LE that he had recently watched something (on TV I think) about a parent who left their child in a hot car and then became an advocate. I wonder what that was... Did LE or the defence not bother to track that down to see exactly what information it contained? I wonder if it mentioned parents being investigated.


Eta I tried looking up hot car deaths in Georgia prior to Cooper's, because maybe RH would have seen them in the news and been familiar with the circumstances (or maybe not... Who can know). So far I only found one in 2008 where a foster mother left a baby (Jessica Scovil) in a car, and there was a lot of outrage in the press from the bio parents demanding that she be charged, and she was charged with
involuntary man-slaughter and reckless conduct. In 2010 she pleaded guilty to a single count of misdemeanor involuntary manslaughter. She got a year of probation, 200 hours of community service an a $1,000 fine.

It's hard to Google any hot car deaths at the moment because most of the hits are about RH.

http://onlineathens.com/stories/090508/new_328706107.shtml#.WCWn4hmnzqC

Early on Kilgore made reference Gov of GA starting a PSA Campaign iirc May 28, 2014? He & LH had watched on tv.

JMHO, Knowing what Ferrell said in Testimony, and that this Campaign had just kicked off by the Gov 22 days prior...JMHO could be a big reason why Ferrell put the wheels in motion from the get go. Ferrell made Captain, 3 months later and left the CAPU, Stoddard had been there since Dec 2013, Murphy since March 2014. New Campaign in news, then this happens...f

Governor Nathan Deal, First Lady Sandra Deal and
State Agencies Warn of the Dangers of Leaving
Children Unattended In Vehicles
Officials Urge Greater Awareness to Protect Georgia’s Youngest Citizens
ATLANTA, Ga., (May 27, 2014) – Governor Nathan Deal, First Lady Sandra Deal, and leaders of
several state agencies are calling for parents and caregivers of children to have heightened awareness this
summer of the dangers of leaving children unattended in vehicles. Officials hope a new YouTube video
titled “Look Again,” featuring Georgia parents who have lost children to vehicular heatstroke accidents,
will help raise awareness and prevent similar incidents in the future.
“During Georgia’s hot summer months, there is a higher risk of serious injury or death as a result of a
child being left alone inside a vehicle,” said Deal. “Since 2010, seven children in Georgia have died due
to vehicular heat stroke. I ask that all Georgians join me in preventing future loss of life by being aware of
your surroundings and never taking the chance of leaving a child in a car, even for just a minute. Lives
can be saved if we take the time to Look Again.”
“We as parents and grandparents work hard to keep our children safe and out of harm’s way,” said Mrs.
Deal. “By increasing awareness and reminding your family and friends to Look Again, together we can
prevent future tragedies here in Georgia.”
Bobby Cagle, Commissioner of Bright from the Start: Georgia Department of Early Care and Learning
(DECAL), said over 375,000 children across the state depend on approximately 6,000 child care
providers daily most of whom transport children on a regular basis to and from home, after school to the
child care center, and on field trips. “We receive calls about incidents where children are left in vehicles
from a few minutes to several hours and we investigate each incident,” Cagle explained. “According to
our records, in FY2012, 21 children were left in vehicles by child care providers; 17 in FY2013; and
already 18 in FY2014. While thankfully we have not seen any child deaths in child care centers since
2011, we want these dangerous close calls to decrease. Consequently, safely transporting children will
remain a focus for our agency."

Look Again: Governor, First Lady, State Agencies Warn of Dangers Leaving Children in Vehicles
Page 2
Cagle said “Look Again” is a message to anyone caring for a child --- child care programs, teachers,
parents, and grandparents --- to always account for the children in their care as they drive them from place
to place. “When you arrive at your destination, check the front and back of your car, and after you’ve
looked, just to be sure, look again. There is absolutely no reason for a child to suffer or die in these
conditions,” he stressed.
Officials hope the public will help pass the “Look Again” video along to family and friends using social
media such as Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and Pinterest. Featured in the video are interviews with
Jenny Stanley, mother of six-year-old Sydney Marie Stanley of Evans, Georgia, who died in August,
2010, when she became trapped in the family car while it was parked in the garage, and Charles Green,
father of two-year-old Jazmin A’mya Green, a toddler who died in June, 2011, after being left for two
hours on a daycare van in Jonesboro, Georgia.
Officials are also asking the public to be their eyes and ears in the community, and if they see a child left
alone in a vehicle, call 911 immediately; emergency personnel are trained to respond.

<more at link>
http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/wgcl/hotcarwarning.pdf

 

[arkansasmimi]

Can you imagine if you were one of the individuals that had walked around that vehicle and later found out Cooper was in there? Bless their souls if they ever realized it later. It is not their fault, but the what ifs would hurt my heart if I had been one of them. Who knows why no one ever came forth that they were walking by. But I can understand possibilities,in today's society people want to blame .. and having seen what the local media did, one can only imagine what would have happened.

I do believe that the CCPD should have tried to at least identified them for their investigation. JMHO