The SODDI Defense (Some Other Dude Did It)...If not KC, who?

[Balthazar]

But have you tried to break into a trunk??

Does that car have a leaver to popping the trunk open? IF it does, does it work?

If it doesn't have a leaver to open the trunk (or broke) then it doesn't matter if someone broke into the main part of the car. They would have to be able to break into the trunk. Which I think would be harder then using a jim stick. Ok, I know it would. It would have to be picked or a new key made.

Casey's car has the kind of trunk that can accessed from the backseat.

 

[doobiedoo52]

BTW, re: earlier searches in the same area: during much of the search time, that area was under water.

I understand that. However, a well trained cadaver dog can detect scent even when it's underwater. I have no idea what types of searches were done there---it was just a comment on what they might argue.

 

[Balthazar]

The main problem I can see is proving KC is the ONLY one who could have done it. We have not seen any evidence that her fingerprints were on the duct tape as of yet and no actual evidence that SHE placed the body in the trunk. I still think she's guilty but the defense is going to argue that anyone could have access to her car. IF there is any fingerprint evidence we won't find out until trial probably. If LE has that then there's the direct link. Without it, there could be reasonable doubt. I think they will try to discredit forensics. They have no need to provide an alternate theory, just reasonable doubt---things like previous searches in the area the body was found with no results.

I completely agree with you. It doesn't matter WHO the SODDI is, which I think many people on this thread don't understand. All that matters in a trial is that the defense CAN show the POSSIBILITY of SOD to the jury in such as way as to cause reasonable doubt.

 

[Jolynna]

BTW, re: earlier searches in the same area: during much of the search time, that area was under water.

I understand that. However, a well trained cadaver dog can detect scent even when it's underwater. I have no idea what types of searches were done there---it was just a comment on what they might argue.

Actually it is possible for an area to be searched by a cadaver dog and to have a body missed. Wind direction on the day of the search matters. A child's body is harder to detect than an adult body. Caylee had been dead for a month before she was reported missing. Caylee was triple bagged. She was also underwater.

I am not saying dogs can't detect a body underwater. They can and do. But several factors can influence the effectiveness of a search on any given day.

 

[MidAtlanticNative]

[quote (from Gaia713, post #533)

Of course, she wants to lead them to Amy. :She stole from Amy. What better way to discredit someone she stole from than to accuse her of something. Ditto for Jesse. Jesse and his family did nothing but love that childm yet the Anthony family and the defense team are trying to claim that HE is the SUSPECT. Cindy dislikes him because he stood up to her when she was picking on Casey; therefore, she immediately wants him to fry. How DARE he? How DARE Amy accuse KC of stealing money. The Anthony family has an agenda and it has nothing to do with Caylee. It's more about REVENGE. Cross Cindy and see what happens to you.[/quote]

(bold sections mine)
It really bothers me that the Anthony family has gone as far as they have to implicate Jesse. As you noted in your post, the Grunds seemed to embrace both Casey and Caylee, even after the paternity question was answered. And the fact the Jesse purportedly defended Casey against (what he deemed at the time to be) inappropriate commentary from Cindy, makes me wonder if Cindy wasn't a little envious of Casey. Aren't parents supposed to be happy and proud when their children are in a good place, with people that genuinely love the child (and the grandchild)? It's sad, but I can't help thinking that maybe Cindy didn't support (or even went so far as attempted sabotage) the relationship Casey and Caylee had with the Grunds because she was envious. Maybe even outright jealous. And this finger pointing we've seen since 7.15.2008 is simply an extension of that.

I know this off-topic given the title of the thread, but it's been bugging me for a while. Thanks for the vent!

 

[countzero]

The main problem I can see is proving KC is the ONLY one who could have done it. We have not seen any evidence that her fingerprints were on the duct tape as of yet and no actual evidence that SHE placed the body in the trunk. I still think she's guilty but the defense is going to argue that anyone could have access to her car. IF there is any fingerprint evidence we won't find out until trial probably. If LE has that then there's the direct link. Without it, there could be reasonable doubt. I think they will try to discredit forensics. They have no need to provide an alternate theory, just reasonable doubt---things like previous searches in the area the body was found with no results.

I completely agree with you. It doesn't matter WHO the SODDI is, which I think many people on this thread don't understand. All that matters in a trial is that the defense CAN show the POSSIBILITY of SOD to the jury in such as way as to cause reasonable doubt.

I read dobbiedoo52's post as the forensic evidence being reasonable doubt. That being LKB's expertise and I suspect she will attack it as she has in her past cases.

In regards to your reply to Doobiedoo52, I respectfully disagree and I do understand completely because if this happened 20 or even 10 years ago, JB could have gotten away with a blanket, nameless SODDI. The defense might be able to provide a feasible (I don't think so, but .....) SODDI theory, but in this case, the murder of a child, the birthing vessel of this murdered child has been charged with committing that murder.

The jury will want to know who this SODDI person(s) is, not a theory that can not be proven with some type of evidence other than "she is innocent, take my word for it, I will tell you why" speech. They will want to have evidence that is solid, not speculative that supports this SODDI theory. The citizens of Florida are not as stupid, ignorant or uneducated as JB thinks or wishes they were. History of trials in both Florida and my state have proven this point.

I am more than open minded to view and investigate ANY AND ALL defense information released, concrete whatever, as long as it isn't some pulled out of the hat explanation that totals smacks against the evidence so far released or future evidence that will be released to the public.

 

[MidAtlanticNative]

Respectfully disagree and I do understand completely because if this happened 20 or even 10 years ago, JB could have gotten away with a blanket, nameless SODDI. The defense might be able to provide a feasible (I don't think so, but .....) SODDI theory, but in this case, the murder of a child, the birthing vessel of this murdered child has been charged with committing that murder.

The jury will want to know who this SODDI person(s) is, not a theory that can not be proven with some type of evidence other than "she is innocent, take my word for it, I will tell you why" speech. They will want to have evidence that is solid, not speculative that supports this SODDI theory. The citizens of Florida are not as stupid, ignorant or uneducated as JB thinks or wishes they were. History of trials in both Florida and my state have proven this point.

I am more than open minded to view and investigate ANY AND ALL defense information released, concrete whatever, as long as it isn't some pulled out of the hat explanation that totals smacks against the evidence so far released or future evidence that will be released to the public.

(bold mine)
You make a great point. If we were dealing with charges in stranger/stranger (sounds like an 80s hair band ) homicide, it would be easier to launch the 'it wasn't this random perp, it was that random perp' idea to the jury and expect it to float. In this instance, the jury may lend a certain amount of credence to the the State's case from the get-go simply because a non-stranger, a Mommy, has been charged.

 

[Balthazar]

Actually it is possible for an area to be searched by a cadaver dog and to have a body missed. Wind direction on the day of the search matters. A child's body is harder to detect than an adult body. Caylee had been dead for a month before she was reported missing. Caylee was triple bagged. She was also underwater.

I am not saying dogs can't detect a body underwater. They can and do. But several factors can influence the effectiveness of a search on any given day.

My understanding is that underwater canine cadaver detection is a specific and separate skill set than on-land cadaver detection. If the dog is not specifically trained for it, then an underwater find is less likely. This may explain why Caylee's body was not found early on in the searches.

 

[Balthazar]

I read dobbiedoo52's post as the forensic evidence being reasonable doubt. That being LKB's expertise and I suspect she will attack it as she has in her past cases.

In regards to your reply to Doobiedoo52, I respectfully disagree and I do understand completely because if this happened 20 or even 10 years ago, JB could have gotten away with a blanket, nameless SODDI. The defense might be able to provide a feasible (I don't think so, but .....) SODDI theory, but in this case, the murder of a child, the birthing vessel of this murdered child has been charged with committing that murder.

The jury will want to know who this SODDI person(s) is, not a theory that can not be proven with some type of evidence other than "she is innocent, take my word for it, I will tell you why" speech. They will want to have evidence that is solid, not speculative that supports this SODDI theory. The citizens of Florida are not as stupid, ignorant or uneducated as JB thinks or wishes they were. History of trials in both Florida and my state have proven this point.

I am more than open minded to view and investigate ANY AND ALL defense information released, concrete whatever, as long as it isn't some pulled out of the hat explanation that totals smacks against the evidence so far released or future evidence that will be released to the public.

I think it is the intention of the Defense team to first completely obliterate the forensic evidence and then progress on to say that since there is NO forensic evidence against Casey it must be SOD. If they manage to accomplish this, then all the prosecution will be left with is that Casey is the last person seen with Caylee. Whether or not the Defense team accomplishes this remains to be seen. As I have said before, I think this is going to be one interesting trial.

BTW: The defense has not released ANY information, so all we can put together for a SODDI case would be what we can glean from interviews with various people concerning Casey and the few comments made by the defense in court or to media.

 

[2goldfish]

I think it is the intention of the Defense team to first completely obliterate the forensic evidence and then progress on to say that since there is NO forensic evidence against Casey it must be SOD. If they manage to accomplish this, then all the prosecution will be left with is that Casey is the last person seen with Caylee. Whether or not the Defense team accomplishes this remains to be seen. As I have said before, I think this is going to be one interesting trial.

BTW: The defense has not released ANY information, so all we can put together for a SODDI case would be what we can glean from interviews with various people concerning Casey and the few comments made by the defense in court or to media.

they are also left with 31 days. I suspect I am not the only one who was pretty sure what had happened the instant this hit the news. KC being the last with caylee, KC lying about leaving caylee with someone, 31 days pass and CA, not KC, who in fact can be heard in the bg saying "just one more day", finally calling the cops, is still some pretty compelling truth - even if you do discount every single other bit of evidence left.

 

[countzero]

I think it is the intention of the Defense team to first completely obliterate the forensic evidence and then progress on to say that since there is NO forensic evidence against Casey it must be SOD. If they manage to accomplish this, then all the prosecution will be left with is that Casey is the last person seen with Caylee. Whether or not the Defense team accomplishes this remains to be seen. As I have said before, I think this is going to be one interesting trial.

bold by me: This is the one sentence that I agree on as probably most readers/posters.

Are you really saying the defense can completely obliterate forensic evidence? Gee, what happens when they fail to do this or manage to only obliterate portions that are "superficial" yet part of the forensic evidence? Do you really have such little faith in forensic evidence, the FBI, LE and the SA? Do you not believe the history of pings, phone records and text message records? I am trying to really understand where you are coming from reading your posts and I don't understand.

 

[trixi491]

KC is not married... It's usually a wayward guard/prison employee, etc.

Yes but apparently FL prisons don't even allow married couples conjugal visits. Meaning she couldn't get married to some obsessed psycho from the "outside" (like some inmates do) and get to have conjugal visits.

 

[songline]

I said nothing derogatory about the folks on this thread, nor would I. I said a jury, except the most gullible, is not going to buy any theory that: 1) does not involve a real, living, person, and 2) against whom there is no evidence. "Maybe somebody else did it," in the face of all the evidence against KC, would not work.

I think a SODDI would be viable as a perp if we could name one, and provide evidence of involvement. Motive, method, and opportunity. How did the SODDI get the baby away from KC? How did the decomposition fluids get into KC's trunk? Why is KC continuing not to tell her "real story?" She can't be refraining to protect Caylee. Caylee is dead. The parents certainly do not appear to be afraid or in danger. They enjoy perfect freedom of movement Nor, would many people buy the idea that KC would sacrifice her life for GA and CA.

The evidence against a SODDI would have to be pretty compelling to overcome all the evidence against KC.

We can, of course, speculate all we want. But a SODDI who either doesn't exist, or against whom there is no evidence would simply not work in court. It would be another Scott Peterson disaster. He blamed hippie and satanists, IIRC. The jury did not buy it.

You're right, we don't know what other evidence LE has. But, we DO know that they haven't arrested anyone else. Hence, there is no evidence of anyone Else's culpability or involvement.

We DO have JB's statement that KC has a story that will result in her immediate exoneration. But, if he had such, he could spring her from prison. Which, he has not been able to do.
So.. who is the SODDI, and what and where is the evidence?

YES Casey will have to tell a story that can finally be authenticated and not run LE around. YES Casey is going to help herself. No there can not be fingerprints and other evidence found when her family cleaned that car, gas tanks, and shed
I still have one hold out...That foundation that is linked to really questionable people. I still think there is a reason they suddenly got wrapped up in that....Why doesn't Hailey comings father get a foundation? WHY? think about it. Is it possible that there are shady people linked to Casey and they do not want to be? is it possible that Casey sold drugs for some guy and owed him lots of money, because she skimmed and promised to pay later? is it possible that he said I am cutting you off bring the money by tomorrow I am not kidding? Is it possible that she said I will have the money here hold my car with Caylee and I will go sell this and have the money later...is it possible that she came up short again and the guy just put caylee in the trunk and told KC she is in deep chit? And is it possible that this guy is hooked up with some nasty people who have too much to lose, do not want to get looped into this mess, and met up with GA and cooked up a way that they believe will have no one go to jail. With a great clean up and a BS story there is no body to link to the deed. IS IT POSSIBLE?
That still makes KC guilty of putting Caylee in a dangerous position.
But now that they got this lawyer...I do not care because I do not expect any justice...IMHO we owe the dead the truth, we owe them justice. Not going to happen.
And KC did put Caylee in danger.

 

[RR0004]

It's too late for that now. The Defense has said (Paraphrased):

1. Casey's case is similar to the Sam Sheppard case. (Baden)

2. Casey is innocent. (Baez, Baden, Lyon) Note it is important that they are saying innocent as opposed to Not Guilty.

3. There is NO evidence against Casey. (Macaluso (I believe) - this was after last Thursday's hearing - he said this with a derisive snort when someone mentioned Casey's car - I am taking this to mean that Baden's team has come up with their own forensics proving the car is not tied to Caylee's death - can't wait to hear how this plays out in court.)

4. Casey should never have been arrested. (Baez)

I still don't think he'll put up any SODDI...create doubt that it was anyone other than Casey, yes a possibility. But if anyone is waiting to have the real killer revealed, I'm sorry to say, they'll be sadly disappointed.

 

[Brini]

Try as we might, we haven't even been able to come up with an SOD story that is even close to a fit. it's gonn'a take some serious lawryer'n to get kc out of this one. I am quite sure jb isn't up to it... and have serious doubts anyone else on her team is.

The only sod that even comes close is CA. KC could say she made up all that Zanny stuff in an attempt to cover up for what CA had done. I don't think CA would go for this...

Well, I'm afraid that you are gonna be right, honey.

JB will point around and say, "But maybe somebody else diddit." He'll try to attack the evidence, and will fail. KC will be convicted. The new mouthpiece will get her LWOP. End of story. Except for some weight gain, a pregnancy, at some point, and conning lonely guys out of money for Ho-Hos.

 

[trixi491]

It's too late for that now. The Defense has said (Paraphrased):

1. Casey's case is similar to the Sam Sheppard case. (Baden)

2. Casey is innocent. (Baez, Baden, Lyon) Note it is important that they are saying innocent as opposed to Not Guilty.

3. There is NO evidence against Casey. (Macaluso (I believe) - this was after last Thursday's hearing - he said this with a derisive snort when someone mentioned Casey's car - I am taking this to mean that Baden's team has come up with their own forensics proving the car is not tied to Caylee's death - can't wait to hear how this plays out in court.)

4. Casey should never have been arrested. (Baez)

In response to # 3--Macaluso didn't say that in response to a question about the car. He was discussing why they shouldn't seek the DP and said they were seeking it for reasons other than the evidence "because there is no evidence." Almost any defense lawyer will say that about their client, even if there is clear evidence against them.


Also, I know some people have been throwing out drug dealing theories. I don't think this will fly. Every single person KC knew said she never had a history of taking any type of drug. The people who's apartment KC was living at (Tony, Cameron, Nathan) never saw her do any type of drug except pot. I think if KC was doing anything Tony would have definitely known and said something. He seems like hte kind of person KC would tell right of the bat she was doing drugs "to impress."

 

[Brini]

YES Casey will have to tell a story that can finally be authenticated and not run LE around. YES Casey is going to help herself. No there can not be fingerprints and other evidence found when her family cleaned that car, gas tanks, and shed
I still have one hold out...That foundation that is linked to really questionable people. I still think there is a reason they suddenly got wrapped up in that....Why doesn't Hailey comings father get a foundation? WHY? think about it. Is it possible that there are shady people linked to Casey and they do not want to be? is it possible that Casey sold drugs for some guy and owed him lots of money, because she skimmed and promised to pay later? is it possible that he said I am cutting you off bring the money by tomorrow I am not kidding? Is it possible that she said I will have the money here hold my car with Caylee and I will go sell this and have the money later...is it possible that she came up short again and the guy just put caylee in the trunk and told KC she is in deep chit? And is it possible that this guy is hooked up with some nasty people who have too much to lose, do not want to get looped into this mess, and met up with GA and cooked up a way that they believe will have no one go to jail. With a great clean up and a BS story there is no body to link to the deed. IS IT POSSIBLE?
That still makes KC guilty of putting Caylee in a dangerous position.
But now that they got this lawyer...I do not care because I do not expect any justice...IMHO we owe the dead the truth, we owe them justice. Not going to happen.
And KC did put Caylee in danger.

Anything's possible, honey. But, possibilities w/o specifics are not compelling to juries who will have been shown masses of evidence against KC.

JB will have to offer a workable, believable scenario, with a real identity behind it.

If a vague statement that "maybe a another bad guy did it" would work, nobody would ever be convicted.

 

[Brini]

In response to # 3--Macaluso didn't say that in response to a question about the car. He was discussing why they shouldn't seek the DP and said they were seeking it for reasons other than the evidence "because there is no evidence." Almost any defense lawyer will say that about their client, even if there is clear evidence against them.


Also, I know some people have been throwing out drug dealing theories. I don't think this will fly. Every single person KC knew said she never had a history of taking any type of drug. The people who's apartment KC was living at (Tony, Cameron, Nathan) never saw her do any type of drug except pot. I think if KC was doing anything Tony would have definitely known and said something. He seems like hte kind of person KC would tell right of the bat she was doing drugs "to impress."

Exactly! As further evidenced by KC has not displayed any drug withdrawal sx, since she's been in jail.

Pretty sure she lit up, now and then. Maybe dropped a pill, or two, at a party, to be "cool." But that's pretty much it.

 

[Brini]

But have you tried to break into a trunk??

Does that car have a leaver to popping the trunk open? IF it does, does it work?

If it doesn't have a leaver to open the trunk (or broke) then it doesn't matter if someone broke into the main part of the car. They would have to be able to break into the trunk. Which I think would be harder then using a jim stick. Ok, I know it would. It would have to be picked or a new key made.

You'd still have to climb the high tow yard fence with the body in yours arms, then climb out, without being seen. And, you'd have to explain why she drove around with the corpse in the car, and tried to lie away the smell.

 

[Brini]

Which is why I keep going back to my theory that CA/GA knew it happened immediately and went into cover mode. I have tried to work any other plausible SODDI so it matches the docs, but try as I might I can't. Just when one piece would fit, a piece of evidence discredits.

And, if we as sleuths can discredit a SODDI just with the evidence disclosed to the public, I can imagine the evidence LE/SA has that does prove there is not a SODDI freely running around Orlando or the state.

Of course since I am not a manipulating, telling mis-truths, control freak who belittles every person around me, I cannot for the all the money in my bank account, figure out exactly what happened during that 31 day period. I betcha LE can and has though.

So you are right, it isn't an SODDI, or LKB's attempt to discredit the forensic evidence that will help KC. It will be seasoned and talented attorney's using their knowledge of the legal system to minimize her sentence at best.

As evidenced by the A's first insisting that ZFG exists. When that didn't play, they tried to deride the evidence. That didn't work, either, so they tried to go after JG.

They know KC diddit, and are flailing in an effort to deflect culpability, or at least distract.

As was said, if there was a REAL SODDI, the A's or someone else would be shouting from the rooftops, yelling from the TV screens, or taking out adds in the papers.