The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992 - #4

[Trooogrit]

Unless I have misread your post you have fingered "Larry" and "Curly" as the two primary culprits. Garrison came after the fact.

Are these guys capable of this crime? Did they have the connections to a place of disposal and all of the rest? From what I know of their background they seemingly had little success in staying out of trouble. Is it not possible that Garrison was making this whole story up out of whole cloth? After all, he had two characters he could lay the blame on. From what I have read of him, nothing he has ever provided has proven to be factual.

The story the other two supposedly provided Garrison makes sense if you look at it through the opportunistic rapist definition. These guys are burglars that were also potentially intoxicated. They may not have set out to rape, but the opportunity presented itself and they acted. They fly under the radar because they have no past criminal activity in this area. Now on the other hand, Garrison is a rapist. He did a "stranger rape" and that type of rapist generally commits again. I waiver on him being involved or not, but he may have set the wheels in motion and the other two went along with this "opportunity". Now when Garrison came forward with his story he had a weapons charge against him. This would have been his 3rd strike. So he provides information that gets his charge reduced. He concocts a story that was based partially in fact, with enough information to make it credible, but not enough to find anything to actually prove the other two guilty. If the other two were involved they denied it, and if all three were involved they shut up, because this crime would lock them all up for good if not get them a death penalty. Silence now is a means of survival. I will say, If this group is responsible the two were in way over there head, and they got the hell out of town soon after. Thus leaving the entire community to speculate and allow rumor to run rampant. All of the conspiracy, police misconduct, and crazy stories comes from a crime scene that provided little evidence and tainted by people coming and going, and the complete silence from the perps who know they are in far deeper than they ever intended on being.

 

[Missouri Mule]

What you say makes logical sense. On the outside chance I did a quick check of their recent activities and in particular Greene County. Unless I overlooked something, nothing is showing up on them although we know where Garrison is housed. It certainly is a viable theory.

I would say this. Garrison has been in the slammer for a number of years and I'm somewhat surprised that some other inmate has not ratted him out if he has run his mouth as convicts are prone to do and said anything that might incriminate him or the other two. So far as I know, he is not, as Cox is, in "the hole" so he would be among the general population. I stand to be corrected if that is not the case as I didn't check further into him.

 

[Trooogrit]

Well It is a theory and I havent been able to disprove it yet. Unfortunately there is no way to know what the truth is without new information. It is a pipe dream to believe that anything the police have will be made public. Someone coming forth with direct information, or a confession is the only thing that can solve this. I wonder if the truth were to come out would they be able to see it versus the numerous rumors that have been passed down over the years. I figure someone might feel the need to clear the conscience before they die, but then again they might already be dead.

 

[monkeymann]

So...to finally attempt to answer this theoretical question: Doe's anyone think the Farm and or story attributed to it, had any validaty? Wasn't the farm in question south of Cassville? I would think that that would be a heck of a long and risky drive for the abductors to travel with three kidnap victims in the car. Was this the same "Farm" in which the concrete company dumped their waste at?

 

[Missouri Mule]

So...to finally attempt to answer this theoretical question: Doe's anyone think the Farm and or story attributed to it, had any validaty? Wasn't the farm in question south of Cassville? I would think that that would be a heck of a long and risky drive for the abductors to travel with three kidnap victims in the car. Was this the same "Farm" in which the concrete company dumped their waste at?

No, the "Farm" in question is between Rogersville and Northview. The dig down at Cassville was another matter and going on memory it seems like it came as a result of a deathbed confession of some sort. But as I recall, even though there was a lot of heavy equipment brought in to dig up the place nothing ever came that would definitively tie the crime to that site.

What argues against taking the women to Cassville is the distance and time to exit the Springfield area. Getting out east would be a matter of perhaps 10 minutes. Going west out of town, out U.S. 60 would be a matter of perhaps 20 to 30 minutes and then the long drive down to Cassville. I have gone this way a number of times having at one time thinking of retiring there. However, I have lived in the Rogersville area for a number of years and it is much more logical and sensible to go in that direction if one had any intention of avoiding detection. In my younger years I have even walked most of these roads many times. Clearly the Rogersville/Northview area would be the preferred route out of town.

This discusses that dig. The "Farm" and the Cassville dig are in opposite directions.

http://springfield.news-leader.com/specialreports/threemissingwomen/0608-Cassvilleb-115439.html

 

[monkeymann]

No, the "Farm" in question is between Rogersville and Northview. The dig down at Cassville was another matter and going on memory it seems like it came as a result of a deathbed confession of some sort. But as I recall, even though there was a lot of heavy equipment brought in to dig up the place nothing ever came that would definitively tie the crime to that site.

What argues against taking the women to Cassville is the distance and time to exit the Springfield area. Getting out east would be a matter of perhaps 10 minutes. Going west out of town, out U.S. 60 would be a matter of perhaps 20 to 30 minutes and then the long drive down to Cassville. I have gone this way a number of times having at one time thinking of retiring there. However, I have lived in the Rogersville area for a number of years and it is much more logical and sensible to go in that direction if one had any intention of avoiding detection. In my younger years I have even walked most of these roads many times. Clearly the Rogersville/Northview area would be the preferred route out of town.

This discusses that dig. The "Farm" and the Cassville dig are in opposite directions.

http://springfield.news-leader.com/specialreports/threemissingwomen/0608-Cassvilleb-115439.html

I used to install satellite systems and I spent a fair amount of time around Rogersville. Also the Fordland area. I agree with you...it would have been much much easier to get out of town quickly by heading east. Aparently the lady that reported the van in the driveway in the early morning hours lived on Grand street if I recall correctly...they could have gone down Grand and gotten onto Cherry and been out of town fairly quickly. And from there I believe they could have taken back country roads all the way into the Rogersville area. I used to travel alot of back roads when installing satellite systems, and that area has some pretty remote, dirt road, hillbilly kind of areas for sure! Especially in the Fordland area.

 

[Missouri Mule]

I agree that there is a lot of junk out there on the boards. I just found that cruse ship theory and thought I'd throw it out there.

The cruise ship story is valid. Offhand, I don't know if it has any relevance to the case.

 

[monkeymann]

The cruise ship story is valid. Offhand, I don't know if it has any relevance to the case.

If the Cruise Ship story is valid then In my opinion that would put him at the top of the list of suspects....especially if it happened with in a couple weeks of the women's disappearance...wouldn't you think? Did GC have a solid aliby? Was he ever considered a suspect?

 

[Missouri Mule]

If the Cruise Ship story is valid then In my opinion that would put him at the top of the list of suspects....especially if it happened with in a couple weeks of the women's disappearance...wouldn't you think? Did GC have a solid aliby? Was he ever considered a suspect?

Well, it is certainly a theory worth exploring. I can tell you that his name came up frequently when talking to various people interested in the case. I was never a big fan of this theory but I didn't discount it completely. There was the matter of the rumor that Suzie had said that Sherrill had dated some kind of businessman and of course according to the lead investigator on "48 Hours" made mention of a "Man behind a big desk with wing tipped shoes." So I guess it is as good a theory as any other. I wouldn't bet the farm on this, however.

As I recall the news reports said she wasn't actively dating at the time. But I'm not sure I put much stock in the news reports any longer since there are seemingly so many inconsistencies and loose ends. Until and unless the SPD decides to share and/or restate known facts already in the public domain that won't compromise the investigation we will forever be plowing the same ground over and over.

 

[monkeymann]

I don't know....I guess I just find this to be an overly unique coincidence..."Them being on the same cruise". Then a few weeks later the 3MW disappear. Then years later GC is charged in the JJ Murder case and all this other creepy stuff about him comes to light. Just seems too coincidental! And his propensaty for violence and sexual deveance are right in line for him to be a prime suspect

 

[Missouri Mule]

I don't know....I guess I just find this to be an overly unique coincidence..."Them being on the same cruise". Then a few weeks later the 3MW disappear. Then years later GC is charged in the JJ Murder case and all this other creepy stuff about him comes to light. Just seems too coincidental! And his propensity for violence and sexual deviance are right in line for him to be a prime suspect

Well, to be sure, I am no fan of his. I used to see him about everyday where I worked and I heard about every wild thing that was ever said. Some of them may even have been true. So far as I know no one ever really questioned what went on in the J.J. case. The only thing that would ever tie him to this crime is some kind of physical evidence tying himself to the case. Of the 223 known names of Sherrill's clients (yes, I have their names), I would like for any to come forth and claim they actually saw the two together at any time. Then I might believe he was involved. Otherwise they had to have had a very clandestine affair which I strongly doubt. But since the cops have clammed up so tightly we just don't know what to think. Your guess is as good as mine.

 

[monkeymann]

Well, to be sure, I am no fan of his. I used to see him about everyday where I worked and I heard about every wild thing that was ever said. Some of them may even have been true. So far as I know no on ever questioned what went on in the J.J. case. The only thing that would ever tie him to this crime is some kind of physical evidence tying himself to the case. Of the 223 known names of Sherrill's clients (yes, I have their names), I would like for any to come forth and claim they actually saw the two together at any time. Then I might believe he was involved. Otherwise they had to have had a very clandestine affair which I strongly doubt. But since the cops have clammed up so tightly we just don't know what to think. Your guess is as good as mine.

Now wait a minute....didn't you say that the two of them being on the same cruise was "Valid". Is that just speculation, or is it a fact?
I remember the GC had aparently stated that the, "Cops would never have anything on him because they were too stupid". So it would stand to reason that he was a person who...at least to some degree...put a little thought and planning into his crimes, as well as someone who had a fair degree of arogance and thought they were smarter than LE. He just didn't count on current DNA technology coming back to haunt him. And he probably wouldn't have ever been caught otherwise. Not saying that GC committed the 3MW crime, but he would definatly be at the top of my list of suspects....if it could be proven that he was on the cruise with Sherrell L.

 

[monkeymann]

Also...Is it known if

#1. GC was ever considered a suspect in the 3MW case, by Spfld PD.

#2. If GC is "Now" considered a suspect in the 3MW case by Spfld. PD, after he was arrested for the JJ murder.

#3. GC had an aliby for night the 3MW disappeared.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Now wait a minute....didn't you say that the two of them being on the same cruise was "Valid". Is that just speculation, or is it a fact?
I remember the GC had aparently stated that the, "Cops would never have anything on him because they were too stupid". So it would stand to reason that he was a person who...at least to some degree...put a little thought and planning into his crimes, as well as someone who had a fair degree of arogance and thought they were smarter than LE. He just didn't count on current DNA technology coming back to haunt him. And he probably wouldn't have ever been caught otherwise. Not saying that GC committed the 3MW crime, but he would definatly be at the top of my list of suspects....if it could be proven that he was on the cruise with Sherrell L.

I'm satisfied that the information on the cruise is valid information. However, it may have been some period of time before they were abducted. I have no idea when GC was on any cruise. I've just never had any real gut feeling that he was involved unless Sherrill was living on the "wild side" and didn't know his history. A person would have had to been living in a cave not to have known the news in the area during that period. Seems out of character for her. So far as I know she lived a very circumspect life.

Be it far from me to come to his defense. It seemed to me at the time that the cops were constantly looking in his direction ever since the JJ murder. There was really no big mystery in anyone's mind about that crime; only that LE and the justice system seemed unable to act which frustrated everyone and the family was especially devastated. At or about the same time we had other abductions that took place and were never solved. That too, drove everyone about "nuts" speculating what happened. And then we had the attempted abduction of a young girl where he used a rental car but she escaped and he went to the big house for a few years. I doubt he had many defenders in the area.

Two areas that I think are fertile ground to explore would be the George's matter still unresolved and the second has not even been mentioned to any degree but I think worth looking at. Prior to their driving back to the Battlefield address they were at the Hanover party some 57 blocks to the east. That party was broken up at or about 2 AM in the morning. I'd want to know exactly who was at that party and if either or both of the girls had hooked up with any young men who were out for a good time who might have followed them back to Battlefield and then on onto to the Delmar address some 12 miles further NE.

I believe it is customary to talk to the last people who saw the victims alive to properly clear them. Has this ever been done? Not to my knowledge. One or more of them might have been among the three "clean cut looking young men" at George's. It isn't rocket science to suggest that this would be coincidental if true. And it could also explain why no DNA or forensic evidence was found to link anyone to the crime. It may simply be because the perps never went into the home at all. It is altogether possible that a mini party went on outside the home for some time and things got out of hand and they were abducted which could explain why nothing in the home yielded up any good clues. I'm not saying this theory has any legs but it is an area I would want to knock down since we do not know who these 12 suspects are. If we had that information I believe we could have a much better idea who committed this crime because we could then investigate them thoroughly using available internet sources, friends and acquaintances.

 

[Hurricane]

Now wait a minute....didn't you say that the two of them being on the same cruise was "Valid". Is that just speculation, or is it a fact?
I remember the GC had aparently stated that the, "Cops would never have anything on him because they were too stupid". So it would stand to reason that he was a person who...at least to some degree...put a little thought and planning into his crimes, as well as someone who had a fair degree of arogance and thought they were smarter than LE. He just didn't count on current DNA technology coming back to haunt him. And he probably wouldn't have ever been caught otherwise. Not saying that GC committed the 3MW crime, but he would definatly be at the top of my list of suspects....if it could be proven that he was on the cruise with Sherrell L.

If you want to confirm whether Sherrill went on a cruise or not why don't you interview the owner of the salon where she worked, Joe Tate? He could tell you if Sherrill had taken time off work at anytime during the 10-12 months prior to that June. If she was at work every day then she couldn't have been on a cruise ship somewhere.

 

[dale417]

If you want to confirm whether Sherrill went on a cruise or not why don't you interview the owner of the salon where she worked, Joe Tate? He could tell you if Sherrill had taken time off work at anytime during the 10-12 months prior to that June. If she was at work every day then she couldn't have been on a cruise ship somewhere.

Missouri Mule is correct that the cruise is valid. GC was not mentioned in any connection with the cruise, although I know LE looked at him intensively as a suspect. There were not concrete connections on which to go forward. Hurricane, why did you limit the time-frame to 10-12 months?

 

[Trooogrit]

Missouri Mule is correct that the cruise is valid. GC was not mentioned in any connection with the cruise, although I know LE looked at him intensively as a suspect. There were not concrete connections on which to go forward. Hurricane, why did you limit the time-frame to 10-12 months?

So Sherrill took a cruise at some point. Carnanahan was not part of the original information. So basically that information is in error and has no relevence?

 

[dale417]

Correct Trooogrit. Sherrill took a cruise. GC was not linked to the cruise, but was looked at as a suspect.

 

[Hurricane]

Missouri Mule is correct that the cruise is valid. GC was not mentioned in any connection with the cruise, although I know LE looked at him intensively as a suspect. There were not concrete connections on which to go forward.

Hurricane, why did you limit the time-frame to 10-12 months?[/

quote]

I was being generous with the time frame.

Monkeymann:

“The said that aparently Gerald Carnohan had been on the same cruse ship that Sherrell Levitt was on aprox. 6-weeks prior to her disappearance. Has anyone heard this anywhere else?”

Page 10, post #226 of this thread.

Whether she took a cruise or not that far back prior to the abduction or not is immaterial. What clearly can be put to rest due to lack of sufficient evidence is the persistent rumor of she being on a crusie with Carnahan shortly before the abduction. I have no doubt that Carnahan was momentarily considered to be a suspect along with all the other usual suspects. I am sure that he was removed quickly from that list due to lack of evidence and perhaps his whereabouts for that time is known and proven.

In order to keep from going over all the rumors again and again we need to dispose of those when can be proven to not be true.

 

[dale417]

In order to keep from going over all the rumors again and again we need to dispose of those when can be proven to not be true.

Hurricane, thank you! The question had been asked before and I wished to add some clarity/validation to what had been stated.