The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992 - #6

[Incredible]

I love SOSDD!

 

[CanManEh]

they are under the concrete at the parking garage.....that guy that was brought in to look with the radar .He was brought in to ground zero to look for bodies and living victims burried under debris so they must think pretty darn highly of his work for them to bring him to ground zero the man knows what he is looking for and he found it but for whatever reason polotics or i dont know but someone dont want it searched but in my oppinnion i think they have been found weather anyone will do anything about it now thats a whole new ball game..

 

[Missouri Mule]

Suppose for the sake of argument that we all agree to stipulate that it was odd for Kirby & Henson to enter the house at midday after knocking, looking in windows, trying the door knob and finding it unlocked, calling out, etc, and the same for all the others who entered that night. And I think we can all agree that unfortunately they contaminated the crime scene before even knowing a crime had been committed.

Their behavior can't be that odd when Richard has proposed a "compelling theory" where the perps intentionally left the door unlocked, counting as fact that someone would show up looking for the victims, would enter the house upon finding it unlocked and therefore contaminate the crime scene. The perps were counting on that very thing when they left the door unlocked so they must not think it odd at all.


Now what? Where do we go with this information? How does acknowledging this advance the case?

I don't think they were involved but the theory is not disproved if they never came. Sooner or later someone would have come to the empty house and without knowing they were not to be found would have likely entered whereon the crime scene would have been corrupted. Alternatively if no one went into the house several hours would have passed giving the perp(s) plenty of time to leave the area.

The bottom line is there is no downside to leaving the door unlocked. There is every reason to believe there is an upside to leaving it unlocked. The mere fact that the cars were in the driveway would lead an unsophisticated person to believe they were inside. At the very least the door knob and any fingerprints would have been obliterated.

Personally, and I have long believed this, is that this crime was not a random act by the lower rung of society but a planned event that went off better than anyone could have expected.

I'll just ask the question. Why would it be advantageous to lock the door?

 

[TexasT]

If the door was intentionally left unlocked, that implies a plan, not as random. Were any of the "possible" suspects bright enough to think that far in advance? They left the glass, which would have held information if it hadn't been swept up.

Exactly . What burglar / intruder Ever locks doors behind them on the way out ? About 0% . Especially if you are in a hurry with 3 victims . And the globe just busted causing more attention . A little too much credit given here .
Heck why not take the purses / smokes so it looks like they left on foot or caught another ride further delaying a Police response / investigation .

TT


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[TexasT]

As far as Cox, he was a big wanna be. He wanted the attention from the media. Yes, he murdered the Zellers girl, but do not believe he was involved in this case. But, he may know things.

More of a point it's not out of the relm of possibility it occurred in the same manner not that it was Cox specifically . Everyone has acknowledged he's playing games .

If one or more suspects of the GJ are incarcerated on unrelated charges why haven't a ex GF / Spouse ect came forward ? OR at least an anonymous tip of whereabouts So at least families can have some closure .
Unless they are located on someone's specific property any evidentiary evidence was gone Long ago . Loose lips sink ships and 23 years is a Long time . This is the area that seems more plausible of one suspect vs multiple .

TT


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[monkeymann]

The interesting information about SG, his personality, the way he would give info as an informant to LE when it was to his advantage. Also, the Goose connections.

JK and MH were strongly looked at in the beginning. They were cleared.

The glass, after being swept up, was discarded into a business' bin next door. LE was able to retrieve most of it.

He writes that the Cassville dig did find blood that tested human, but too far degraded for DNA tests available at that time.

Here's a valid question. Why was the glass from the broken porch globe discarded into a business' bin next door......when Sherrill had a big blue rolling garbage can under her carport? That doesn't make any sense.

 

[monkeymann]

LE had doubts about JK and MH and they were throughly investigated. Several people who know much about this case, all agree, they are not guilty of anything but stupidity. Nothing like this had ever occurred in Springfield before, they are only guilty of ignorance.


As far as Cox, he was a big wanna be. He wanted the attention from the media. Yes, he murdered the Zellers girl, but do not believe he was involved in this case. But, he may know things.

Playing devils advocate here for a moment....A lot of people were thoroughly investigated, and LE still didn't come up with an answer. So it is a fair statement to say that it is very likely that even though LE thoroughly investigated many people, they may just have not had anything solid to go on....even though they may have felt that some people knew more than they were saying. Remember, LE is not obligated to be HONEST when they say that someone has been "Cleared". Sometimes the person "IS CLEARED"....and sometimes they "Aren't"....and LE will say that they are cleared to see of the person they have suspicions about, will eventually drop their guard and screw up. I find it interesting that JK is the ONLY ONE out of the group that was with Suzie and Stacy that night, that we ever hear from talking about the case. Other than SA's statement about he and Suzie spending time talking and reminiscing that night, we hear nothing from there on from anyone else that was with them that night. Just think that it is odd that some of the other people who were with the girls that night, haven't talked to anyone publically about the case. I don't understand why they never made any public statements, or why they have never been interviewed in any of the media both printed and video?

 

[monkeymann]

It also would imply a different direction, someone who would have knowledge of crime scene investigations.

What? I don't understand how you can draw that conclusion? Why would someone have to have knowledge of crime scene investigations? Are you implying that a member of LE had something to do with this crime? Just trying to get clarification regarding your statement. :thinking:

 

[monkeymann]

More of a point it's not out of the relm of possibility it occurred in the same manner not that it was Cox specifically . Everyone has acknowledged he's playing games .

If one or more suspects of the GJ are incarcerated on unrelated charges why haven't a ex GF / Spouse ect came forward ? OR at least an anonymous tip of whereabouts So at least families can have some closure .
Unless they are located on someone's specific property any evidentiary evidence was gone Long ago . Loose lips sink ships and 23 years is a Long time . This is the area that seems more plausible of one suspect vs multiple .

TT


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I agree with you....I think it is much more plausible that this crime has not been solved because it was committed by only one person. May be two. Like you said, 23yrs is a long time for a "Group" of people to remain quiet. It's more likely that it was committed by only one or two people.....who either planned the crime out thoroughly, or just got lucky with the crime scene being corrupted by all the traffic in and out of the house the next day. I think if LE had been able to process the house before anyone had gone into it, or cleaned anything up.....the crime would have been easier to solve.

 

[Hurricane]

I don't think they were involved but the theory is not disproved if they never came. Sooner or later someone would have come to the empty house and without knowing they were not to be found would have likely entered whereon the crime scene would have been corrupted. Alternatively if no one went into the house several hours would have passed giving the perp(s) plenty of time to leave the area.

The bottom line is there is no downside to leaving the door unlocked. There is every reason to believe there is an upside to leaving it unlocked. The mere fact that the cars were in the driveway would lead an unsophisticated person to believe they were inside. At the very least the door knob and any fingerprints would have been obliterated.

Personally, and I have long believed this, is that this crime was not a random act by the lower rung of society but a planned event that went off better than anyone could have expected.

I'll just ask the question. Why would it be advantageous to lock the door?

Richard, there would have been minimal contamination from Kirby & Henson entering on their first trip there at midday; the real contamination happened when the 10 people entered & stayed for sometime that night trying to figure out where the 3 women could be, and before calling LE. The perps probably spent a matter of minutes in the house; the 18 others spent a matter of hours. More possible contamination could have happened when 48 HRS & other media were given a crime scene tour while the house was still being processed. Sixty-some prints were identified. The fact that there was only one (partial?) unidentified print recovered by LE implies the perps were wearing gloves and not that all of their other prints were obliterated thru contamination. The unidentified print could be non related to this crime. There wasn't ANY contaminated prints. There just weren't any prints to begin with because they wore gloves.

If we were to take a vote on opinions thru the yrs it would be a fact that most people who have read on this case do find it odd that the house was entered. If most people view their behavior as odd (implying they would never enter themselves) I would think it goes against the idea that the perps counted on the fact that enough people would enter the house to contaminate the scene and therefore leave the house unlocked intentionally. In fact an argument could be made that by locking the door the discovery of a crime could have been delayed until sometime Monday (if Janis McCall hadn't been so tenacious about her daughter) when Sherrill didn't show up for work, giving the perps additional time to cover their tracks. As someone has already coined, it was just by "happenchance" that the house came to be unlocked.

Let me just add that in David J. Warren's book he credits Henson as saying that he swept up the glass shards because Kirby was barefooted. He found a broom & dustpan in the carport but no trash receptacle ( don't know where this blue trash can now being referred to comes from). He then disposed of them in the dumpster at the dental office next door. SPD has all of the shards they could recover. So when the point was made some yrs ago that the shards were disposed of in the neighbors trash, technically that was correct; it just wasn't at Schrum's at 1705.

 

[Hurricane]

Would anyone recommend the David Warren book? Just curious if it's a good read.


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I'm about 60 pages from completing so I'll finish it today. His main reference material is newsprint (online 2000 & 2003 N-L, some KC Star); KB's crime blog; and "public discussion forums" on the case such as WS; TV & video such as Discovery ID, 48 HRS, & Unsolved Mysteries. As Incredible has pointed out, if you are well read on the case all his information is available elsewhere; there is very little new here.

His personal theory closely follows the Can't Say line & the GGMC.

 

[Incredible]

No, not at all.

Someone who studied crimes, a deep thinker, who might understand the logic of leaving the door unlocked.

 

[Incredible]

There was an article in the paper the first sixty days regarding Mrs. Elder and Michelle.

Also quotes from Nigle.

But, as far as any offering an opinion, nothing.

I am convinced they have told Mrs. McCall things we do not know. Which they should have.

I have wondered about the different vehicles LE was interested in finding in the beginning stages.

 

[monkeymann]

No, not at all.

Someone who studied crimes, a deep thinker, who might understand the logic of leaving the door unlocked.

I can see your point, but what would the angle be. It could only be a couple different angles.

1.) The perp(s) were in a big-time hurry to get out of the house with the 3MW and didn't care if they locked the door.

2.) The perp(s) left the door unlocked so that someone would eventually enter the house....thus contaminating the crime scene.

3.) The perp(s) planned on returning to the house for what ever reason.....to clean up the crime scene, or they possibly didn't take all three of the women at one time, and left one at the house and returned shortly after taking the other two. (It could be possible that one of them was already either gravely injured, or deceased at the point that the perp(s) left the house....just a thought). Although that angle would be very foolish and risky on their part.....to have to return to the house after abducting one or more of the women.

My personal feeling is that they were in such a panicked hurry because of the crime they were committing, that they simply didn't think about it. Much in the same way they probably were so panicked and in a hurry to get out of the house, that they didn't take time to look in any of the purses for money. (Ref. Sherrill's several hundred dollars that was still in her purse).

 

[monkeymann]

Also....I think that I was incorrect in the color of the trash can being blue. I relooked at one of the pictures of the carport area, and it appears that there is a large Green garbage can in front of Sherrill's car. At least that's what I've always thought it was. It would stand to reason that (IF) MH obtained the broom and dust pan from under the carport, (NOTE: There are a couple different stories regarding where the broom and dust pan were obtained from), that she would have a garbage can close by. And I would think that she had an outside garbage can that she would have taken to the curb once a week for disposal.
Someone look at the pictures and see if you think that's a garbage can in front of Sherrill's car.

 

[monkeymann]

There was an article in the paper the first sixty days regarding Mrs. Elder and Michelle.

Also quotes from Nigle.

But, as far as any offering an opinion, nothing.

I am convinced they have told Mrs. McCall things we do not know. Which they should have.

I have wondered about the different vehicles LE was interested in finding in the beginning stages.

I think you are absolutely correct! I think that LE has told Mrs. McCall things about the crime that we'll never know, unless the case is eventually solved. And I also agree with you that LE should have told Mrs. McCall at least some information that was not intended for anyone else but her and her immediate family.

 

[Incredible]

I agree, they were in a hurry and never thought about locking the door.

 

[monkeymann]

Richard, there would have been minimal contamination from Kirby & Henson entering on their first trip there at midday; the real contamination happened when the 10 people entered & stayed for sometime that night trying to figure out where the 3 women could be, and before calling LE. The perps probably spent a matter of minutes in the house; the 18 others spent a matter of hours. More possible contamination could have happened when 48 HRS & other media were given a crime scene tour while the house was still being processed. Sixty-some prints were identified. The fact that there was only one (partial?) unidentified print recovered by LE implies the perps were wearing gloves and not that all of their other prints were obliterated thru contamination. The unidentified print could be non related to this crime. There wasn't ANY contaminated prints. There just weren't any prints to begin with because they wore gloves.

If we were to take a vote on opinions thru the yrs it would be a fact that most people who have read on this case do find it odd that the house was entered. If most people view their behavior as odd (implying they would never enter themselves) I would think it goes against the idea that the perps counted on the fact that enough people would enter the house to contaminate the scene and therefore leave the house unlocked intentionally. In fact an argument could be made that by locking the door the discovery of a crime could have been delayed until sometime Monday (if Janis McCall hadn't been so tenacious about her daughter) when Sherrill didn't show up for work, giving the perps additional time to cover their tracks. As someone has already coined, it was just by "happenchance" that the house came to be unlocked.

Let me just add that in David J. Warren's book he credits Henson as saying that he swept up the glass shards because Kirby was barefooted. He found a broom & dustpan in the carport but no trash receptacle ( don't know where this blue trash can now being referred to comes from). He then disposed of them in the dumpster at the dental office next door. SPD has all of the shards they could recover. So when the point was made some yrs ago that the shards were disposed of in the neighbors trash, technically that was correct; it just wasn't at Schrum's at 1705.

Just to play devil's advocate again here, just because they didn't find any prints, doesn't mean that the perp(s) wore gloves. If the FBI's profile of the crime is close to being correct, which I personally think it is, one or more of the perp(s) was probably know by one or more of the women. Which means that is likely that the crime was not planed in advance.

Even if it was, the perp(s) could have either been lucky and not touched anything, or not left any viable prints. Or, the things that they did touch, they had the afterthought to wipe the place the touched off with their shirt or something else.

I do agree with you though in that, if it was a preplanned crime, they would have been foolish not to wear gloves.....and probably did........if it was a preplanned crime, and not a spur of the moment type crime.

 

[Incredible]

You know, I don't think MH was very bright.

And, I imagine this and going into the house, the phone answering, wet pants, etc. was what raised LE's suspicions about both of them.

But, in the end, I think JK was mad they might have left her behind, and I think between them we are looking at very childish, stupid behavior exhibited that day.

 

[tlcya]

I think the perp watched enough tv and movies to break the porch glob in order to heighten the chances that the door would be opened for them by someone within due to limited visibility. Both by the occupants and to lessen odds than some nosy neighbor would see the activity at the door and have a description of the person or persons seen there on the porch.

Glad to see this case getting new attention and fresh eyes. Hard to wrap your head around how someone(s) could disappear three able bodied women as they did in this one. Fascinating case.

The door being unlocked could indicate a lack of thought or care. It could have been left unlocked intentionally to allow for scene contamination. It could have been left unlocked because the perp(s) intended to return after disposing of the women if possible to address further crime scene tampering or locate something sought but not found but the return trip was aborted. So many possibilities.

Had the door been locked it may have suggested that the women had left the house with purpose and secured it on their way out. However the purses left behind along with the vehicles would still have left folks scratching their heads.

Some good ideas being tossed out there. Hope something sticks to the wall. This one has been unsolved too long.