The Talent show

[Kimster]

 

[Donjeta]

Do you think that the teacher lies and Kyron actually vanished after having gone to the classroom and having been her responsibility or just that she lies about Terri mentioning a doctor's appointment?

Terri mentions the appointment confusion in her email on June 5th and at that point the police hadn't yet heard about some of her shenanigans that made her less than credible. I'm not sure why they would automatically have taken the teacher's word over hers in the beginning.

Edit: Sorry Kimster, what's the correct thread to continue this discussion?

 

[Donjeta]

One other question about the Talent Show ; where was it to have been held ? In the gym ? But, weren't there IB Science Fair exhibits already in the gym ? So, how could an audience of kids,staff and parents have also been in the gym ?

All JMO

Maybe some of the parents already took their child's exhibit home in the morning like Terri intended to do?

And if the rest of them look like Kyron's it would be a quick job to move them out of the way for the talent show IMO.

 

[BeanE]

The scheduled bus stop for the current year at the Horman house is 3:31. Maybe that is closer to the time the bus would stopped on June 4th if changes were made to the route during the course of the 09-10 school year.


ETA - sorry o/t. the bus stop was mentioned up thread and there was mention of getting to the stop about 10 minutes late and I just wanted to mention that the stop time may have changed.

I'm sorry. You're right. It's 3:31. I had even looked it up:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Neighbor and eyewitness Jim Kelley


Don't know why I got 3:21 stuck in my head.


The on-topic connection between the bus and the talent show I had posted is whether Terri may have not wanted Kaine to know about the talent show, if she knew she had to get to the Kelley home area in the white truck approx 3. That wouldn't have worked, if Kaine knew about the talent show and decided to drop by to see Kyron in it and discovered him missing, or if Kaine came home and asked Terri wth she wasn't at the talent show seeing Kyron.

I was trying to think of reasons why Terri may not have wanted Kaine to know about the talent show, since he apparently didn't know about it on June 4.

Sorry this sent things off on the truck track.

 

[liz b.]

Maybe some of the parents already took their child's exhibit home in the morning like Terri intended to do?

And if the rest of them look like Kyron's it would be a quick job to move them out of the way for the talent show IMO.

But,IIRC, TH had actually emailed Kyronn's teacher to ask when his exhibit should be picked up ?

If the Skyline talent show was anything like the ones at my children's school. it is a very small affair. In my eperience,very few parents would attend ( and this was a school with sky high parental involvement ). Also, it was okay for kids to change their minds about performing at the last monent, and many did. It was just for fun, and really,more for the children than their parents. Just some thoughts about my days as a room mom,and talent shows....

All JMO

 

[SurfieTX]

From my experience with 2 kids in elementary, the talent show would have been put on twice - once for the children/teachers during the school day and once in the evening for the parents. Sometimes that occurred on the same day and sometimes it didn't.

 

[debs]

From my experience with 2 kids in elementary, the talent show would have been put on twice - once for the children/teachers during the school day and once in the evening for the parents. Sometimes that occurred on the same day and sometimes it didn't.

And Kyron would not have been able to attend that, if that had been in place, since he was expected to travel down to spend the weekend with Desiree.

 

[liz b.]

From my experience with 2 kids in elementary, the talent show would have been put on twice - once for the children/teachers during the school day and once in the evening for the parents. Sometimes that occurred on the same day and sometimes it didn't.

Yes, we always had the more "serious " shows, like recitals in the evening... Parents would definately show up then.

All JMO

 

[scotslass]

Well, if it makes you feel any better (it might actually make you feel worse) I'm not sure if the children in the school bus would have been treated any different if one of them had gone missing between 8:30 and 8:45. Unless there was a procedure for checking up the names of the children entering and exiting the school bus and the children showing up for the chaperoned tours at 8:45 or unless the teacher was there to meet the bus and took special notice of the child who was to disappear I think any of them might just have been marked absent as well, and no phone call would have ensued.

If there is such a check up list of the school bus kids and the teachers use it it might be different but is there?

ETA: I do believe that even if the official roll call was at 10 the adults would have been aware of who was there and who wasn't, when organizing the groups.

Well my best guess is no there is no check on who is on the bus and where they end up by the start of class, only that they are marked absent when class starts. Recently another school in Vancouver washington had this issue with a 5yr old who went to the wrong class was marked absent from K and only when mom showed up 4hours later did they know he was supposed to be there. No phonecall was placed and i believe the official school words were the first few days of school are chaotic (beginning to think this is a standard term for school events)so no calls are placed???.. This child was found safely seated in the grade 1 class where he was answering to another name they only found him after the school was placed on lockdown, police called and bus surveillance cameras pulled. There was talk of Kyron during the reporting of this.

So i don't think there are any checks and balances for any children when arriving at school until attendance is taken and even then the procedures get overlooked sigh... Anyone could have taken Kyron during the time from drop off until attendance taken IMO and TH is not the only one who should be on the radar.

Link for 5yr old

http://www.columbian.com/news/2010/sep/13/vancouver-elementary-school-placed-under-lockdown/


My apologies as i realize this is off topic for the talent show...ooops

 

[Kimster]

Do you think that the teacher lies and Kyron actually vanished after having gone to the classroom and having been her responsibility or just that she lies about Terri mentioning a doctor's appointment?

Terri mentions the appointment confusion in her email on June 5th and at that point the police hadn't yet heard about some of her shenanigans that made her less than credible. I'm not sure why they would automatically have taken the teacher's word over hers in the beginning.

Edit: Sorry Kimster, what's the correct thread to continue this discussion?

If you can't locate one, go ahead and start a new one. I would look but am on a short schedule today. :doh:

 

[Donjeta]

And Kyron would not have been able to attend that, if that had been in place, since he was expected to travel down to spend the weekend with Desiree.

In my experience schools and daycares almost never schedule any evening events on Friday nights because lots of people have something else to do on weekends.

 

[Kat010]

I have to keep asking about the children who arrived on buses approx 8:30. The final bell was at 8:45. The science fair activities were from 8 till 10.

Based on that, what time did school start for the children who arrived on buses? Were they on their own from 8:30 until 10? Anyone could have taken any one of them out of the school during that time without checking out at the office?

I just can't make this make sense to me.

Obviously, school buses don't discharge their little passengers exactly one minute before the bell or one minute after the bell rings. The buses come in, kids get off, there's time before classes.

IMHO, once those kids set foot on the school grounds, the school is responsible for them. To dance on the head of a pin saying that the school isn't responsible until the bell rings, and school "officially starts" just doesn't make any sense to me. JMO

And, the science fair was a school activity. They even had volunteers there. So, again, logically, the school assumes responsibility for the children who are there--regardless if it's 15 seconds before the bell rings, or an hour before the bell rings.

As to the matter of liability, here's a reasonable benchmark: if someone falls down and gets hurt on the school grounds at say, 8:17 a.m., before the bell rings, is the insurance in force? Or is there a caveat that says "insurance only works once the bell rings and school officially is in session"? I doubt the latter.

One thing that worries me is that it seems like LE is trying to protect the school or school personnel. That's just from what we know, of course. But if they are, then the investigation is tained, IMHO.

 

[Bluestars]

In my experience schools and daycares almost never schedule any evening events on Friday nights because lots of people have something else to do on weekends.

That has been my experience too in a variety of schools with my three children. The schools never had events on Friday night.

The only thing I know for certain about the talent show is that Terri must have known about it because there was a sign right in front of the school announcing it, I believe. Since it seems like Desiree and Kaine didn't know about it, it was either no big deal or Terri intentionally withheld this information and possibly told Kyron not to say anything. There's really no way to know.

It would be interesting to know if she ever spoke to the teacher at the school about the talent show and also how many parents attended.

 

[DreamyEye]

One other question about the Talent Show ; where was it to have been held ? In the gym ? But, weren't there IB Science Fair exhibits already in the gym ? So, how could an audience of kids,staff and parents have also been in the gym ?

All JMO

Just a guess and based on the schools in my area: talent shows are usually in the cafeteria. Many times there's a stage in the cafeteria. further bolstering this guess: The talent show was slated to start at 1 pm ... which, to me, would have have been right after lunch, with most of the kids already in the cafeteria. My guess only.

 

[debs]

Just a guess and based on the schools in my area: talent shows are usually in the cafeteria. Many times there's a stage in the cafeteria. further bolstering this guess: The talent show was slated to start at 1 pm ... which, to me, would have have been right after lunch, with most of the kids already in the cafeteria. My guess only.

Skyline has a cafegymatorium!!!!!

 

[debs]

OMG. Another "I wonder!" thing! Perhaps the only projects that needed to be picked up that day after 10 a.m. would be the ones in the gym......so they could get ready for lunch and then the talent show!

 

[DreamyEye]

Skyline has a cafegymatorium!!!!!

Wow ... never even heard of such a thing! This school sounds very strange to me. Very progressive in some ways--yet very backwards in terms of routine security measures that are in wide use almost everywhere else.

 

[SurfieTX]

Skyline has a cafegymatorium!!!!!

They had the cafeteria in the gym? Most elementary schools (even the brand-spankin' new one down the road from me), have a stage in the cafeteria. The gym is separate.

 

[Mellen]

Obviously, school buses don't discharge their little passengers exactly one minute before the bell or one minute after the bell rings. The buses come in, kids get off, there's time before classes.

IMHO, once those kids set foot on the school grounds, the school is responsible for them. To dance on the head of a pin saying that the school isn't responsible until the bell rings, and school "officially starts" just doesn't make any sense to me. JMO

And, the science fair was a school activity. They even had volunteers there. So, again, logically, the school assumes responsibility for the children who are there--regardless if it's 15 seconds before the bell rings, or an hour before the bell rings.

As to the matter of liability, here's a reasonable benchmark: if someone falls down and gets hurt on the school grounds at say, 8:17 a.m., before the bell rings, is the insurance in force? Or is there a caveat that says "insurance only works once the bell rings and school officially is in session"? I doubt the latter.

One thing that worries me is that it seems like LE is trying to protect the school or school personnel. That's just from what we know, of course. But if they are, then the investigation is tained, IMHO.

I don't know how it works at Skyline, but at my daughter's school, the buses actually do get there very close to the bell that signifies the start of classes and are often a little late (bus kids are not charged with being late if this happens but kids that walk or are dropped off would be). At her school there are actually 2 bells -- one at 8:50 to let kids start coming in the building and one at 9:00 to signify the start of classes. Buses are never there before the 8:50 bell. They try to arrive between 8:50 and 9:00 so the kids can go straight in. Parents that walk with or drop off kids on the other hand are encouraged to arrive before 8:50 so their child can line up and go in when the 1st bell rings. And when children and parents arrive before 8:50, parents are required to stay with their child outside the school until the bell because the school is not responsible for the children until they enter the building. I'm pretty sure if a child fell and got hurt before the bell rang and they entered the school, the school would say they were not responsible as the child was still considered to be under parental watch. Her school has never had an before-school-hours science fair or other activity -- I'm betting they take great pains to avoid such situations just because of the possible liability ramifications!

Edited to add: I've always been quite disturbed by the looseness of the situation at Skyline that day, and the conflict beween TP's account of the teacher saying KH must have gotten a drink of water and the teacher then saying that KH went to the dr. appt. is something that is bugging me to no end.

 

[AutomaticAuttie]

Just a guess and based on the schools in my area: talent shows are usually in the cafeteria. Many times there's a stage in the cafeteria. further bolstering this guess: The talent show was slated to start at 1 pm ... which, to me, would have have been right after lunch, with most of the kids already in the cafeteria. My guess only.

Their lunch and recess end at 12:15, so there would be a 45 min. gap before the talent show started. K-3rd return to class at 11:48 and 4th-5th return to class at 12:15