The Texts Messages: Warning! Graphic SEXUALLY EXPLICIT

[GrainneDhu]

This may sound silly, but the comparison Terri was making about a golf ball through a water hose seems extreme, and something that might make a man cringe. I may be totally wrong, but could that be considered a little on the sadistic side?

I'm not sure how to answer this without seeming too sexually experienced myself!

Putting that aside... The golf ball through a hose is certainly not an original image from TMH. It has been used quite a lot in literature (and not just *advertiser censored*), about as often as the other common image, that of sucking the chrome off a trailer hitch.

I don't think that anyone outside of TMH can judge just from that one phrase whether she has any sadistic leanings or not.

 

[gwenabob]

I'm not sure how to answer this without seeming too sexually experienced myself!

Putting that aside... The golf ball through a hose is certainly not an original image from TMH. It has been used quite a lot in literature (and not just *advertiser censored*), about as often as the other common image, that of sucking the chrome off a trailer hitch.

I don't think that anyone outside of TMH can judge just from that one phrase whether she has any sadistic leanings or not.

I think you are right. It is plain old unoriginal soft-*advertiser censored* schlock cliche'.

 

[Pensfan]

I think this golf ball statement originally came from the movie, Full Metal Jacket in 1987. The original statement was used to imply that someone was a sycophant.

IMO, TH likely provides sex to manipulate others. She believed that MC woud be excited to hear her proclaim her willingness to provide this "service" to him. She dramatized her "offer" to draw attention to it and to flatter herself in regard to her "advanced skill level".

Why TH needed/wanted MC to desire her "services" only days after the tragedy of her stepson disappearing is unknown, but I will make an educated guess that she did this for any or all of the following reasons:

- She uses passive-aggressive actions to punish others (Kaine moved out, so she propositioned his high school competitor).
- She is looking for another source of income (Kaine moved out leaving her with money issues) and MC is unmarried.
- She has Borderline Personality Disorder, Narcissistic Personality Disorder,
Histrionic Personality Disorder or Antisocial Personality Disorder and therefore, she is always in need of admiration/adulation. She exhibits counter-social behaviors and has poor impulse control. She feels no remorse for her actions.
- She is Bipolar and in manic phases she is hypersexual and very impulsive.

 

[Herding Cats]

You know, I've got some thoughts here.

I read through those texts, and yes, while they're not pretty, I actually expected far worse.

I keep going back to TH's frame of mind at the time. What would be stressors going on to create this sort of reaction?

Her stepson, who she raised from toddlerhood, is missing. Huge stressor right there.

Husband left. Panic over survival - how will she actually get a roof over her head, food in her belly? Gas in the car? Survival time...huge stressor there.

Husband left and took her other child, a baby. Horrific issue right there. Biggest stressor in the bunch, as baby is not yet grown enough to get a coat on if she's cold or grab some food if she's hungry. Baby's still very, very vulnerable.

Being scrutinized by LE (and every Tom, Dick and Harry) about her demeanor, her clothing, her looks, her weight, her silence, her polygraphs...

Feeling like she can't talk to anyone without being overheard. Feeling like she can't go anywhere without it causing a media explosion. Feeling cut off from the world, feeling like she can't manage the least little thing...

Add to that the issues of an adopted person (general issues with rejection), a drinking issue, and quite likely an eating issue, and you've got someone who is, indeed, actually only "ugly coping."

She was under serious attack at the time - everyone who ever knew her was crawling out of the woodwork to say she was this, that or the other thing. Every moment of her life she expected to be arrested. Every breath she took was monitored. I see this as her cry of "someone please see me, love me, make me real and valid and comforted!" We all have those feelings, but most people can cope in ways that don't involve texting, and that's why I feel it's 'ugly coping.'

You know how 9 months after a blackout or some other significant natural disaster, the birth rate rises? Or how, after a family member dies, some folks turn to sex? I see this as the same thing.

Sometimes, in low self esteem, people use sex to validate their worth. They think if they can get a partner, they'll be "all right", or at least distracted enough from their crises to forget about things for a time. Promescuity is not relagated to only teens; it's throughout all ages. To have someone to share intimacy - sexual or otherwise - with is very important to a human being, and sometimes, acquiring that intimacy takes on some strange forms. TH was/is looking for something she's familiar with, and if it takes the form of sex, then that's what form it takes.

I honestly don't see these texts as much more than the above. I also see MC as not really participating...which had to be frustrating to TH, as well.

Just some thoughts other than mainstream here. She has some deepseated issues, to be sure...but I don't necessarily attribute the texts any weight, taking the entire thing into consideration.

Best-
Herding Cats

 

[Angel4u2Whisper2]

:waitasec: But what about the ones that happened before these listed stressors? The texts with the "landscaper"? Secondly, If we wanted to we could all come up with something to identify as a stressor or cause..or blame for the bad choices that we make in our lives if we wanted to, couldn't we?

 

[ThoughtFox]

It is common but incorrect belief that people who assert their power/dominance over others suffer from low self-esteem. These individuals usually have overly healthy self-esteems.

I am not a physician and I don’t diagnose individuals. As a psych nurse, I have cared for with many individuals that share very similar traits with TH, so I will share their diagnoses. Duel addictions, conduct disorder, oppositional defiant disorder, depressive disorder, passive-aggression, histrionics, and dependent personaity disorders were diagnosed in these individuals. Each exhibited a need to dominate with power and each needed to have rigid control over others.
There were other patients that I cared for that shared these qualities and were remorseless and dangerous. They were given an APD diagnosis and some were even discussed to be psychopathic.

I'm NOT a healthcare professional by any stretch of the imagination, but I agree with you that Terri does not seem to suffer from low self-esteem. In fact, the opposite.

I have a relative by marriage that I have known for 26 years. He is a total narcissist with delusions of his own power over others. He is convinced that everyone in the world is jealous of him and he often embellishes the truth to provoke that response. He is cruel and vindictive, and only nice to someone who can do him a favor.

Meanwhile, to those who know him well, he is just an arrogant, unreliable, big-mouthed bully. And probably a sociopath, too, just undiagnosed.

I'm not saying there are not root issues that can cause this. In my relative's case, he lost his mother at an early age and was raised without much affection. He came from a lower socio-economic group and had to work hard to get where he was. But he has no empathy for anyone and can barely work up affection for his own children!

I believe these disorders have a certain amount of inherited trait because his sister had the exact same personality!!! She used people and made people upset her entire life without remorse.

So, in my experience as a lay-person, all that braggadocio is not a sign of low self-esteem, but of delusions of grandeur and a really high sense of self-preservation and entitlement. :twocents:

 

[ThoughtFox]

You know how 9 months after a blackout or some other significant natural disaster, the birth rate rises? Or how, after a family member dies, some folks turn to sex? I see this as the same thing.

I've actually never known anyone who lost a family member then turned to sex! :waitasec: Grief doesn't lend itself much to sexual feelings, in my experience. Comfort maybe, but depressed people don't make the best lovers.

And as far as the birth rate rising after war or disaster - that usually means with a partner someone is married to or planning to marry, not from adultery.

I'm absolutely sure TH wasn't interested in having a baby with Michael Cook - can't get pregnant from oral sex anyway, LOL

Sometimes, in low self esteem, people use sex to validate their worth. They think if they can get a partner, they'll be "all right", or at least distracted enough from their crises to forget about things for a time. Promescuity is not relagated to only teens; it's throughout all ages. To have someone to share intimacy - sexual or otherwise - with is very important to a human being, and sometimes, acquiring that intimacy takes on some strange forms. TH was/is looking for something she's familiar with, and if it takes the form of sex, then that's what form it takes.

I'm not too worried about Terri's self-esteem. See my last post.

If TH can only find solace in sex, then I feel sorry for her.

A defense attorney could try and use Sex Addiction or something as a defense for her actions, but I don't think it will fly with a Jury.

From what Kaine has said, she was miserable before Kyron ever disappeared, and she was sexting withanother man long before MC.

I honestly don't see these texts as much more than the above. I also see MC as not really participating...which had to be frustrating to TH, as well.

Just some thoughts other than mainstream here. She has some deepseated issues, to be sure...but I don't necessarily attribute the texts any weight, taking the entire thing into consideration.

Best-
Herding Cats

MC didn't respond, but not because TH wasn't trying in a pathetic way to throw herself at him. Maybe it is pitiable to be that needy, but then again, she's a woman who just lost a step-son and he's the last thing on her mind. Hard for most people to overlook that fact.

Sexual Need shouldn't trump the fact that Kyron was missing. :furious:

 

[Herding Cats]

:waitasec: But what about the ones that happened before these listed stressors? The texts with the "landscaper"? Secondly, If we wanted to we could all come up with something to identify as a stressor or cause..or blame for the bad choices that we make in our lives if we wanted to, couldn't we?

Good points. I think, if there were some with the LS (and I haven't seen them; doesn't mean they don't exist), then I'd say that further bolsters my opinion, inasmuch as it's a thing TH does to feel better. After all, she was alledgedly angry/hurt enough by Kaine to want him dead...which may mean that there was another stressor at the time (like discussion of divorce, or something) to lead to the texts then.

I think we can all come up with stressors that lead us to bad choices, don't you? Does it amount to a defense? No, but I'm trying to look at this from a different point - if TH didn't "disappear" Kyron (and I'm not convinced she did...), then the texts are wholly about her trying to make sure she's all right. It takes a different form than most people use, and that makes it hard for us to imagine or to ascribe innocent thought behind it, but it still may just be something that she does when she's feeling threatened.

When I have stressors in my life, I tend to go into overdrive (over work), and throw comfort food at myself. Both of those things are somewhat negative, as they both impact my health and well being. Even knowing this, I still reach for the chips and dip (dinner!), and stay up 36 hours at a stretch. And then pay the consequences of exhaustion and weight gain...and poor performance, which leads to more stress, which leads to poor choices, et cetera ad nauseum. LOL.

All I'm saying is perhaps there is something else here other than "she did it, look how much she cares! NOT!"...another perspective, another point of view, another aspect to the complexity which is a human being.

Best-
Herding Cats

 

[Jo in Calif]

Good points. I think, if there were some with the LS (and I haven't seen them; doesn't mean they don't exist), then I'd say that further bolsters my opinion, inasmuch as it's a thing TH does to feel better. After all, she was alledgedly angry/hurt enough by Kaine to want him dead...which may mean that there was another stressor at the time (like discussion of divorce, or something) to lead to the texts then.

I think we can all come up with stressors that lead us to bad choices, don't you? Does it amount to a defense? No, but I'm trying to look at this from a different point - if TH didn't "disappear" Kyron (and I'm not convinced she did...), then the texts are wholly about her trying to make sure she's all right. It takes a different form than most people use, and that makes it hard for us to imagine or to ascribe innocent thought behind it, but it still may just be something that she does when she's feeling threatened.

When I have stressors in my life, I tend to go into overdrive (over work), and throw comfort food at myself. Both of those things are somewhat negative, as they both impact my health and well being. Even knowing this, I still reach for the chips and dip (dinner!), and stay up 36 hours at a stretch. And then pay the consequences of exhaustion and weight gain...and poor performance, which leads to more stress, which leads to poor choices, et cetera ad nauseum. LOL.

All I'm saying is perhaps there is something else here other than "she did it, look how much she cares! NOT!"...another perspective, another point of view, another aspect to the complexity which is a human being.

Best-
Herding Cats

Well it seems to me if she has these many stressors going on in her live right now, it might just be in the baby's best interest at this point to not be in contact with her, until she gets some major professional help.

 

[Herding Cats]

I've actually never known anyone who lost a family member then turned to sex! :waitasec: Grief doesn't lend itself much to sexual feelings, in my experience. Comfort maybe, but depressed people don't make the best lovers.

I'm not sure TH was looking for anything more than comfort and contact, and the only way she knew to do it was through sex. And I have known a cousin to turn to sex after her mother died, and made some really poor choices as a direct result of that. Dysfunctional handling of grief, to be sure, but it is a way some use to reconnect to living, to reaffirm life, and/or to be comforted.

And as far as the birth rate rising after war or disaster - that usually means with a partner someone is married to or planning to marry, not from adultery.

Well sure, but it's still a response to trauma, right? And "most" does not mean all...

I'm absolutely sure TH wasn't interested in having a baby with Michael Cook - can't get pregnant from oral sex anyway, LOL

LOL, no, you can't. And I totally agree - she wasn't interested in having a baby with MC. Just reaching out to the first available male for comfort and reassurance, and hoping that sex would somehow provide it. For all we know, she's done that all her life; no reason to think it wouldn't work this time.

I didn't at all intend for someone to think TH wanted to have MC's baby...if I alluded to that, I must've miswritten.

I'm not too worried about Terri's self-esteem. See my last post.

If TH can only find solace in sex, then I feel sorry for her.

It might be exactly that...or a myriad other things. But I don't think it's quite as nefarious as some might believe.

A defense attorney could try and use Sex Addiction or something as a defense for her actions, but I don't think it will fly with a Jury.

I am not proposing this as a defense, you know? I think that sexting, and having sex, is not a crime, no matter what we think. I don't necessarily agree with the choice of partners or timing, but it's not a crime. So many folks are so fast to judge others according to how they'd respond and not make allowances for things outside their own scope of experience, that I'm just bringing up a different view and showing a different side to what this might be all about.

From what Kaine has said, she was miserable before Kyron ever disappeared, and she was sexting withanother man long before MC.

Which tells me that's her style of coping with conflict and loss...and nothing really more than that. It does not tell me she doesn't care about Kyron; it does not tell me that she killed Kyron. Her doing this previously does not mean anything to me other than it's a way she copes with things.

Is it the right way to cope? Not for me, and I'll bet not for many others. But it sure seems like it's the way she deals with rejection - prove to herself she is pretty, she is valid, she is worthwhile. "Rebound sex" is kinda like what I mean, but much more deeply seated than that.

MC didn't respond, but not because TH wasn't trying in a pathetic way to throw herself at him. Maybe it is pitiable to be that needy, but then again, she's a woman who just lost a step-son and he's the last thing on her mind. Hard for most people to overlook that fact.

I doubt very much that it was the last thing on her mind. I think it was so much on her mind that she was distracting herself, and trying to re-establish herself, and to gain some comfort and reassurance in the midst of the maelstorm that was her life at the time (and just still might be...).

Sexual Need shouldn't trump the fact that Kyron was missing. :furious:

Nope, it shouldn't. But I don't think that it's an either-or thing, you know? If this were a perfect world, where everyone behaved according to the 'norm', then this wouldn't have happened. But it's not a perfect world, right?

I'm just looking at things from a very different position, is all. I know that some folks' minds will not be changed, and that's fine. I'm putting out a different opinion, though, should anyone want to consider it. It's all good...

Best-
Herding Cats

 

[Herding Cats]

Well it seems to me if she has these many stressors going on in her live right now, it might just be in the baby's best interest at this point to not be in contact with her, until she gets some major professional help.

Really? Wouldn't it be a good thing for the Baby to see her Mama, and a good thing for TH to see her Baby? I think it would lessen the stressors in TH's life, not increase them.

As for major professional help, I think she sure could use it. I think Kaine, Desiree, and other parties to all of this could use it, frankly. This is going to get really messy (more than it is already), and everyone needs a safe place to go and let things out.

Best-
Herding Cats

 

[citigirl]

I haven't seen anything to lead me to think that Terri was suffering from any kind of rejection when she was sexting the landscaper. A coping pattern? I think it is a pattern of manipulation--how she gets people to do things for her. Particularly men.

 

[human]

Really? Wouldn't it be a good thing for the Baby to see her Mama, and a good thing for TH to see her Baby? I think it would lessen the stressors in TH's life, not increase them.

As for major professional help, I think she sure could use it. I think Kaine, Desiree, and other parties to all of this could use it, frankly. This is going to get really messy (more than it is already), and everyone needs a safe place to go and let things out.

Best-
Herding Cats

I can't say that I am concerned about the stressors in Terri's life.

If people need a safe place to go to let things out, how about church, spa, sports, working in a soup kitchen, working collecting Christmas gifts for those less fortunate, or an other socially acceptable thing that elevates a person rather than degrades them.

 

[Pensfan]

Really? Wouldn't it be a good thing for the Baby to see her Mama, and a good thing for TH to see her Baby? I think it would lessen the stressors in TH's life, not increase them.

As for major professional help, I think she sure could use it. I think Kaine, Desiree, and other parties to all of this could use it, frankly. This is going to get really messy (more than it is already), and everyone needs a safe place to go and let things out.

Best-
Herding Cats

BBM
Evident from Terri's sextings, things at Terri's are already messy (couch). From what I read, she is already "letting things out".

 

[germaine]

I'm not at all interested in explaining or excusing aberrant/deviant behavior except maybe on an intellectual level independent of what impact that behavior has on those who are not deviant/aberrant. And maybe that's what you're doing C.H

Everybody has a woe is me tale. Many have had hard lives and serious mental issues to overcome. Bring them to my house and my family, and I don't give three good carps about why you're a freak who tried to have your husband killed and your stepson "disappeared" at best. Cry me a river on terri's behalf. jmoo

 

[txsvicki]

Since Kaine did mention personality disorders, I wonder if he's thinking or been advised on narcissistic personality disorder. If I remember correctly from reading about them, most of the other personality disorders don't usually get worse and can even stabilized by age forty. Narcissists only get worse as they get older, and IMO aren't mentally ill at all, but just plain evil and potentially very dangerous to those that they target for abuse.

 

[ThoughtFox]

:square:

I am not proposing this as a defense, you know? I think that sexting, and having sex, is not a crime, no matter what we think. I don't necessarily agree with the choice of partners or timing, but it's not a crime. So many folks are so fast to judge others according to how they'd respond and not make allowances for things outside their own scope of experience, that I'm just bringing up a different view and showing a different side to what this might be all about.

I don't think sexting and having sex are a crime either.

In fact my husband and I were just . . . oh well, never mind. :angel:

What you are setting up is a false choice - either we support TH's right to express herself while sexting losers like Michael Cook or we are up-tight prudes.

In fact, few things I read actually shock me after years of reading Websleuths. But this case is really something new!

I don't find it especially appropriate for a grown woman to be thinking and acting like TH, but that's just me. My opinion is that TH's life is way out of balance and she has alot of issues.

What I do think is that being "oversexed" while taking care of small children can lead to crime, or at least bring strangers into the family situation who don't belong there.

I think being oversexed can ruin your marriage, which is the road TH put herself on the first time she took pictures of her nether regions and sent them to a semi-stranger.

If a man was doing what Terri was doing, people would just call him a sex addict or a . JMOO

 

[Herding Cats]

Hi, TF.

What you are setting up is a false choice - either we support TH's right to express herself while sexting losers like Michael Cook or we are up-tight prudes

Nope, not at all. I'm saying that sexting, whether we approve of it or not, is not a crime, nor is it evidence of any crime. The only thing it *might* be is a demonstration of how TH copes with things. Then again, it might not be.

Please don't think I'm saying that if someone finds this distasteful, they're prudish. Not at all.

Hi, Germaine.

I'm not at all interested in explaining or excusing aberrant/deviant behavior except maybe on an intellectual level independent of what impact that behavior has on those who are not deviant/aberrant. And maybe that's what you're doing C.H

Why do you think this is abberant/deviant behavior? because it's not something you'd do? Because it's not what people you know do? It's 'ugly coping', I've said, but I don't know that it's all that deviant or abberant...

See, deviant to me is pedophilia, necrophelia, et cetera. Abberant? I am not sure how you're using that in this context, but I'll bet a whole slew of nickels that there are a bunch of folks sexting each other all the time. So if you're using abberant to mean not typical, I can't agree here, either. If you're meaning 'not normal', then I think maybe you are not aware of just how widespread sexting actually is.

If you're referring to the timing, again, I think that there is something else she was looking for, and was able to get it this way...comfort, reassurance, something like that. Her world had just blown apart...wouldn't you want comfort then, too?

And lastly and MOST importantly, not one bit of this stuff is helping to find Kyron. And that, in the end, is the most important thing of all.

Where's Kyron?

Best-
Herding Cats

 

[human]

Hi, TF.


Nope, not at all. I'm saying that sexting, whether we approve of it or not, is not a crime, nor is it evidence of any crime. The only thing it *might* be is a demonstration of how TH copes with things. Then again, it might not be.

Please don't think I'm saying that if someone finds this distasteful, they're prudish. Not at all.

Hi, Germaine.

Why do you think this is abberant/deviant behavior? because it's not something you'd do? Because it's not what people you know do? It's 'ugly coping', I've said, but I don't know that it's all that deviant or abberant...

See, deviant to me is pedophilia, necrophelia, et cetera. Abberant? I am not sure how you're using that in this context, but I'll bet a whole slew of nickels that there are a bunch of folks sexting each other all the time. So if you're using abberant to mean not typical, I can't agree here, either. If you're meaning 'not normal', then I think maybe you are not aware of just how widespread sexting actually is.

If you're referring to the timing, again, I think that there is something else she was looking for, and was able to get it this way...comfort, reassurance, something like that. Her world had just blown apart...wouldn't you want comfort then, too?

And lastly and MOST importantly, not one bit of this stuff is helping to find Kyron. And that, in the end, is the most important thing of all.

Where's Kyron?

Best-
Herding Cats

I'm not sure that it isn't helping find Kyron as Kaine said that this shows motive.

Maybe with motive, LE can find Kyron.

Since I am assuming that we don't know where Kyron is or what happened to him, none of us can say with certainty what will help find Kyron.

All we can do is watch as events unfold.

Perhaps those that live in the area can contribute a lot more action.

Alas, for the rest of us, we are left with few tools to find Kyron.

 

[GrainneDhu]

You know, I've got some thoughts here.

I read through those texts, and yes, while they're not pretty, I actually expected far worse.

I keep going back to TH's frame of mind at the time. What would be stressors going on to create this sort of reaction?

Her stepson, who she raised from toddlerhood, is missing. Huge stressor right there.

Husband left. Panic over survival - how will she actually get a roof over her head, food in her belly? Gas in the car? Survival time...huge stressor there.

Husband left and took her other child, a baby. Horrific issue right there. Biggest stressor in the bunch, as baby is not yet grown enough to get a coat on if she's cold or grab some food if she's hungry. Baby's still very, very vulnerable.

Being scrutinized by LE (and every Tom, Dick and Harry) about her demeanor, her clothing, her looks, her weight, her silence, her polygraphs...

Feeling like she can't talk to anyone without being overheard. Feeling like she can't go anywhere without it causing a media explosion. Feeling cut off from the world, feeling like she can't manage the least little thing...

Add to that the issues of an adopted person (general issues with rejection), a drinking issue, and quite likely an eating issue, and you've got someone who is, indeed, actually only "ugly coping."

She was under serious attack at the time - everyone who ever knew her was crawling out of the woodwork to say she was this, that or the other thing. Every moment of her life she expected to be arrested. Every breath she took was monitored. I see this as her cry of "someone please see me, love me, make me real and valid and comforted!" We all have those feelings, but most people can cope in ways that don't involve texting, and that's why I feel it's 'ugly coping.'

You know how 9 months after a blackout or some other significant natural disaster, the birth rate rises? Or how, after a family member dies, some folks turn to sex? I see this as the same thing.

Sometimes, in low self esteem, people use sex to validate their worth. They think if they can get a partner, they'll be "all right", or at least distracted enough from their crises to forget about things for a time. Promescuity is not relagated to only teens; it's throughout all ages. To have someone to share intimacy - sexual or otherwise - with is very important to a human being, and sometimes, acquiring that intimacy takes on some strange forms. TH was/is looking for something she's familiar with, and if it takes the form of sex, then that's what form it takes.

I honestly don't see these texts as much more than the above. I also see MC as not really participating...which had to be frustrating to TH, as well.

Just some thoughts other than mainstream here. She has some deepseated issues, to be sure...but I don't necessarily attribute the texts any weight, taking the entire thing into consideration.

Best-
Herding Cats

I agree, ugly coping is certainly a possibility.

TMH is certainly not the last person to have a rebound affair after a breakup and she won't be the last.

In times of stress, people shed IQ points like crazy.

In a sense, I feel sorry for TMH because she obviously had some level of trust in MC that was misplaced.