The Verdict is In - post your thoughts here

[misstibbs]

No it doesn't because of the router that he did have. The router that they showed was one that would not require him to do anything more than turn his computer on as if he was right at the office. No additional steps through the VPN were required.

The whole tampering conspiracy theory was way far fetched. It really came down to a defense where no one liked Brad and everyone wanted to pin first degree murder on him just because they didn't like him..including but not limited to his neighbors/friends, the CPD, his co workers at Cisco. I think the jury decided they were not buying it.

I definitely think he's guilty but I also think he's someone that it's really hard to sympathize with or see as a victim.

 

[misstibbs]

You have written a lot of supposition in your post, things you are posting as fact without knowing if it is. The Coopers said they did have a relationship with BC and NC, they had stayed there and vice versa. They may not have been as close knit of a family as the Rentz's but to assume that they didn't like NC, or that they had no relationship is not fact in any manner.

So what he didn't know the name of his nephew he had never seen, may NC knew the name, and maybe they did send cards. You have no clue about these things.

I am quite certain that in the custody hearing it came out that Brad's parents had not visited in some time and that previous visits had not gone well, were stressful, etc. I believe it was common knowledge that Nancy and Brad were not on good terms with his parents.

 

[zenreaper]

I have seen a lot of posts here stating how he "looked" or how he "appeared". I have to wonder, is it realistic to judge a person based on that? One cannot control their physical features. As for how he looked back at the court on the way out after the verdict, I have seen it posted that he gave the "look" of a guilty person, with "hatred" and "seething" in his eyes.

If you went to a foreign country, your wife was murdered, you had your children taken from you, THEN were charged, tried and convicted with absolutely NO physical evidence, following a series of HORRIFIC errors by law enforcement, how would YOU look at the jury/court on your way out?

 

[zenreaper]

I am quite certain that in the custody hearing it came out that Brad's parents had not visited in some time and that previous visits had not gone well, were stressful, etc. I believe it was common knowledge that Nancy and Brad were not on good terms with his parents.

It was also "common knowledge" that he went out for bleach at 4 in the morning, that he gave her only $80 a week, that he was "abusive", that he "spoofed" a call, etc etc. None of ANY of this was proven to be true, and some of it was blatantly proven false.

 

[cody100]

I am not blaming Brad's family in any way for what has transpired but I believe they knew he was guilty and that a lot of what we saw during the trial was for show. They did not have a relationship with Brad or Nancy and when they heard the news that Nancy was deceased, yes, they came to Cary, but they traveled for several days without trying to even call Brad to tell him they were coming. To tell him that they loved him and they were doing everything they could to get to him and his girls as quickly as possible.

Brad admitted during the deposition that he did not know the name of his only brother's child. Bella and Katie's only cousin on the Cooper side of the family and he doesn't even know the child's name? Safe to assume they did not send birthday cards/gifts.

And everyone loved Nancy...so why didn't Brad's family? Even if Brad was socially inept we know that Nancy was a wonderful mother and loved by all so what was the issue w/ Brad's family?

For their sakes I hope they take the Rentz family up on their generous offer for visitation but I am not sure that they will. I believe they will just go back to Canada and move on.

Why do we even bring BC's family into this discussion? Whether it is fact or not (and in my opinion it is not fact) any comments regarding the family are not respectful. They had nothing to do with what happened to NC. My heart goes out to them as it does to NC's family. There are no winners here. Judging someone for not calling or not acting as one thinks a person should do reflects poorly on all of us. MOO

 

[zenreaper]

Why do we even bring BC's family into this discussion? Whether it is fact or not (and in my opinion it is not fact) any comments regarding the family are not respectful. They had nothing to do with what happened to NC. My heart goes out to them as it does to NC's family. There are no winners here. Judging someone for not calling or not acting as one thinks a person should do reflects poorly on all of us. MOO

Its also possible that during the course of the pending separation and divorce, both sides took "sides", as most families do. Interestingly enough, taking "sides" in this divorce situation was deemed reasonable and okay by one side, yet seemingly unacceptable by the other, IMHO.

FTR, NOT bashing either side, nor making disparaging remarks about either side, merely trying to apply the "standard" fairly across the board.

 

[LAWsy_ME]

http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/05/08/1183240/guilty-or-was-plea-just-best-choice.html in the N& O this morning.

The legislation

How the bill would change the Innocence Inquiry Commission:

Those who pleaded guilty could not apply for consideration.

Prosecutors would be allowed to examine witnesses during a hearing in which the commission was considering the case.

Cases could be referred only by a trial court or the defendant.

Lawyers would have to convince three judges that the defendant was innocent beyond a reasonable doubt instead of finding clear and convincing evidence of innocence.

The bill likely will be discussed by a House Judiciary Committee in the coming weeks.

Read more: http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/05...-was-plea-just-best-choice.html#ixzz1Lldv4zhZ

 

[zenreaper]

http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/05/08/1183240/guilty-or-was-plea-just-best-choice.html in the N& O this morning.

The legislation

How the bill would change the Innocence Inquiry Commission:

Those who pleaded guilty could not apply for consideration.

Prosecutors would be allowed to examine witnesses during a hearing in which the commission was considering the case.

Cases could be referred only by a trial court or the defendant.

Lawyers would have to convince three judges that the defendant was innocent beyond a reasonable doubt instead of finding clear and convincing evidence of innocence.

The bill likely will be discussed by a House Judiciary Committee in the coming weeks.

Read more: http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/05...-was-plea-just-best-choice.html#ixzz1Lldv4zhZ

I don't think the idea of pleading guilty or not guilty should be a factor. As a person who has pleaded guilty, because I simply did not have the funds to legally fight the conviction, I think that is an unfair standard.

Consider this, you are arrested for something you did not do. You are looking at a plea offer of probation, or a $15,000 trial, where you MIGHT be found innocent.

Personally, I think ONE law would make things more equal. If you are tried and found innocent, the state becomes responsible for your legal fees. I assure you that would make prosecutors more careful about what they bring to trial.

 

[Maja]

Well folks, seems the sun has about set on Brad Cooper's crime & trial. Don't know about most of you guys, but for me it's high time to saddle up my donkey and clip-clop outta here. My closing opinion (only) follows ... er ... for those interested, that is.

1. The right killer was identified.
2. The wrong person was murdered.
3. The right verdict was rendered by an unbiased jury of 12 of BC's peers.
4. The wrong tech experts presented by Kurtz
5. The right court procedures were followed
6. The wrong methods of Kurtz updating his statements (bloggers!) adopted.
7. The right to his life requested by Rentz family (no DP)
8. The wrong reasons for appeal will likely fail
9. The right city can be proud of their law enforcement / prosecution team
10. The wrong deed of murder is *never* an option.

The trial is over. The evidence clean and appropriate. Kurtz brought in his experts too late; it is not the fault of the American Justice System that, despite over 30 months preparation, he decides (probably via bloggers, heaven help us) to introduce a late witness at 11th hour. It is also not the USA Justice System's fault that Kurtz's "expert" was only partially qualified.

In addition, I am convinced US Judges do *not* have to be experts in every single commercial field on the planet. Their job is to ensure court proceedings, protocol and preliminary happenstance is conducted in such a manner that is fair, unbiased and systematically appropriate to the case. The Judge, therefore, relies on the defense and prosecution to do *their* jobs properly. That faith must be rendered to the court unconditionally - not doing so is a failure on the part of the relevant legal teams. To blame the Judge after the horse has bolted (in the wrong direction as anticipated) is ludicrous, IMO.

Equally, offering evidence after the fact is moot. Trenkle & Kurtz, IMO, is the office where such passionate complaints should be addressed - not to those accepting and knowing Brad Cooper was guilty and received his just desserts.

Fighting, hating, arguing with "the other camp" is not going to bring Brad Cooper back into the society he once knew and enjoyed - before his callous, calculated and controlling cunning caused him to commit such a heinous murder. Resent is never, ever going to "make it better" (as kids sweetly say so often) for B & K and their future lives. Love, as has been enveloped around them by K-Mom and the Rentz family, is the one most powerful asset those 2 sweet little girls have to ensure they continue a wonderful lifetime ahead of them.

May Brad's monstrous deed send out a very, very strong message to society that there are alternatives. That there is no such thing as the perfect crime and no matter *how* intelligent these murderers believe they are - there is a God. And He shalt Judge, if not on Earth, then in Heaven. God gave us our society as a precious gift - and He encourages us to use the tools of life to examine and follow a decent, moral and sanctified world. Those tools were well oiled in this trial, I believe. You see, I don't believe God gets off on "a technical hitch". He gets off on truth, might and power. The power we have as individuals to serve a good life - not a perfect life - but a good life.

Millions of relationships end regularly in an acrimonious fashion. However, stepping outside the bounds of "typical arguments / fighting" and entering a lethal level of eliminating someone through avarice, revenge and control is a whole new ball-game.

Brad Cooper's evil and very lengthy, ongoing deception, manipulation and coveting character brought him to the gates of judgment. NO-ONE else had the means, the motive and the opportunity to do what he did. Phase II of The Life & Times of Bradly Graham Cooper has just begun. A phase only he may have prevented.

Life's poetic justice has returned to give Brad what he couldn't handle - yet dished ut. NC was always looking over her shoulder, sleeping, running and living with her keys - not knowing where the next ambush would be - until the last one struck. Now it's Brad's turn to constantly live a life of fear, for it will be him looking over his shoulder - not knowing who is snooping on him .... or ready to pounce. Poetic justice. Indeed.

Good enough for most of us. Closure? Maybe not. Justice? Yyyyyip.

Looking forward to all of you watching Michelle and Baby Rylan receive equal justice.

Polk ... and for Nancy: :blowkiss:

Thank you so very much. You put this in a tidy package for me. Like so many others here, I was on this case like "white on rice" from the time NC was announced missing. It was two days after I finished 24 years of Military service and was processing it. My focus turned to Nancy. Next thing I know, it's nearly 3 years later and closure.

Wow, this ride required a seat belt AT ALL TIMES. I learned so much from everyone in this forum. Mostly about myself. A good thing.

 

[zenreaper]

Thank you so very much. You put this in a tidy package for me. Like so many others here, I was on this case like "white on rice" from the time NC was announced missing. It was two days after I finished 24 years of Military service and was processing it. My focus turned to Nancy. Next thing I know, it's nearly 3 years later and closure.

Wow, this ride required a seat belt AT ALL TIMES. I learned so much from everyone in this forum. Mostly about myself. A good thing.

Does it bother you that the "package" you think is so tidy is full of inaccuracies, allegations never proven, and flat out false statements? I think that is what bothers me so much. Those posts from the BDI camp are so full of inaccuracies, and when they are pointed out, they simply ignore that fact that their opinion (which they are SURELY entitled to) is based on information that is not true. Some in my opinion, others FACTUALLY false.

 

[SleuthSayer]

The only thing you know about that bolded part is what what Boz said. You don't know if it would have been found to be something else on cross. You don't know why Pros decided to not present it. You are hoping that what you are saying is exactly how it happened, but you don't know.

I thought that the prosecution decided not to present it because the CF was unavailable to testify Mon and the judge had said that rebuttal witnesses could not be called out of order (whatever that means). At least some of the jurors had already protested their time being wasted, so what was Zell to do, ask the judge to recess the trial for a day while waiting on CF to be available?

 

[zenreaper]

I thought that the prosecution decided not to present it because the CF was unavailable to testify Mon and the judge had said that rebuttal witnesses could not be called out of order (whatever that means). At least some of the jurors had already protested their time being wasted, so what was Zell to do, ask the judge to recess the trial for a day while waiting on CF to be available?

That was another thing I found difficult to understand. The prosecution spent 6 weeks presenting their case, and after TWO weeks with the defense, all of a sudden the trial is taking too long. Considering the pros was willing to bring WITNESS after WITNESS to testify to NOTHING, why would one more day, to prove something without a doubt, be an issue?

 

[sunshine05]

That was another thing I found difficult to understand. The prosecution spent 6 weeks presenting their case, and after TWO weeks with the defense, all of a sudden the trial is taking too long. Considering the pros was willing to bring WITNESS after WITNESS to testify to NOTHING, why would one more day, to prove something without a doubt, be an issue?

It is evident now that their strategy was to wear down the jurors so they wouldn't feel like listening anymore by the time defense was up. They could have presented their case in a week since they really didn't have anything. I don't think anyone needed to hear about the affair from the exterminator, preschool teacher and RE agent. I'm disappointed not one juror saw through them.

 

[zenreaper]

It is evident now that their strategy was to wear down the jurors so they wouldn't feel like listening anymore by the time defense was up. They could have presented their case in a week since they really didn't have anything. I don't think anyone needed to hear about the affair from the exterminator, preschool teacher and RE agent. I'm disappointed not one juror saw through them.

Of course, we are entitled to a jury of our peers, so the old joke stands that any 12 people who cannot get OUT of jury duty are no "peers" of mine, LOL.

 

[SleuthSayer]

That was another thing I found difficult to understand. The prosecution spent 6 weeks presenting their case, and after TWO weeks with the defense, all of a sudden the trial is taking too long. Considering the pros was willing to bring WITNESS after WITNESS to testify to NOTHING, why would one more day, to prove something without a doubt, be an issue?

Seems like you answered your own question. The prosecution wasted a bunch of the jurors' time calling witness after witness that either repeated the same things over and over (that NC said that BC was an a-hole) or said that they knew nothing at all. Maybe the judge (in a rare anti-prosecution ruling) decided to draw the line at the time wasting.

 

[zenreaper]

Seems like you answered your own question. The prosecution wasted a bunch of the jurors' time calling witness after witness that either repeated the same things over and over (that NC said that BC was an a-hole) or said that they knew nothing at all. Maybe the judge (in a rare anti-prosecution ruling) decided to draw the line at the time wasting.

The only up side with the frequent anti-defense judicial rulings is that it MAY open the door for a pretty easy appeal.

 

[MountE]

Just wanted to weigh in and say that I am grateful to the judicial process that found BC guilty of first degree murder. I cannot understand the agenda of some posters who insist on continuing the debate, and that we are somewhat dearranged to believe in the justice system and by not being able to see the conspiracy...but each to his own and I have learned so much in the process.

Personally I think it would have been interesting to have had more background knowledge on BC, and his family dynamics. It was interesting to see how his mother shrugged off Mrs. Rentz when she went over after the verdict and placed her hand on Mrs. Cooper's arm...The extroverts going to the introverts, but I suspect there's more to that than a label of "introvert". I find the phychology of the killer facinating. His deposition tapes told me an awful lot about him when I analysed his statements. At one point he says "for some reason" FIVE times when he tries to explain why he changed his route the second time to go to HT, that told me that was more than likely when he dumped Nancy's body, RIP.

Anyway, it has been very interesting (addictive) being a part of this site, the first murder trial that I have ever followed. Thanks to everyone who participated and to those who expressed my thoughts and to those who made me laugh out loud-often.

I'm also very happy to have had the lovely surprise of reading per_curiam recently -- and long may each day last for you, mind yourself.

 

[SleuthSayer]

The only up side with the frequent anti-defense judicial rulings is that it MAY open the door for a pretty easy appeal.

Well, independent of that, I'm not sure what the point here is in reference to the testimony about the Windows event log not happening. Your guy was found guilty after only about 1.5 days of deliberations without that even more damning testimony. Were you hoping for something even faster than 1.5 days?

 

[otto]

I am not blaming Brad's family in any way for what has transpired but I believe they knew he was guilty and that a lot of what we saw during the trial was for show. They did not have a relationship with Brad or Nancy and when they heard the news that Nancy was deceased, yes, they came to Cary, but they traveled for several days without trying to even call Brad to tell him they were coming. To tell him that they loved him and they were doing everything they could to get to him and his girls as quickly as possible.

Brad admitted during the deposition that he did not know the name of his only brother's child. Bella and Katie's only cousin on the Cooper side of the family and he doesn't even know the child's name? Safe to assume they did not send birthday cards/gifts.

And everyone loved Nancy...so why didn't Brad's family? Even if Brad was socially inept we know that Nancy was a wonderful mother and loved by all so what was the issue w/ Brad's family?

For their sakes I hope they take the Rentz family up on their generous offer for visitation but I am not sure that they will. I believe they will just go back to Canada and move on.

That isn't true. Brad's parents traveled with Brad, Nancy and the children to Nashville in the months before the murder. I wouldn't read too much into the fact that after hearing that Nancy was missing, they were more concerned with getting to N.C. than phoning Brad. They had just traveled from Korea to Japan, then they had a call from Brad's brother, then they had to travel first home and then to N.C. That must have been about about 24 hours of air travel alone ... an exhausting few days even without the emotional strain.

I see no reason why Brad should give the name of a preschooler, his nephew, to the lawyer. That child's name would have been made public to everyone between N.C. and Medicine Hat by now. Leave the child out of it. Good for Brad for having that much foresight.

I think there is probably a lot of negative feelings between the two families. The children were taken from Brad before he was arrested and Brad was accused of murder by Nancy's family. They did not stand by him at any time, and they were vocal from the beginning about their belief that Brad was guilty. That is a rather large hurdle to overcome. Personally, I was a little surprised that immediately upon hearing the verdict, Nancy's parents went directly to Brad's parents and tried to talk with them. Brad's parents were public figures before the murder and I would say that the managed extremely well under the circumstances.

 

[otto]

I am quite certain that in the custody hearing it came out that Brad's parents had not visited in some time and that previous visits had not gone well, were stressful, etc. I believe it was common knowledge that Nancy and Brad were not on good terms with his parents.

That's not true. Brad's mother testified about their trip to Nashville in 2008.