The Verdict Waiting Room

[they'll get you]

The women who fall in love with jailed killers

I hope this isn't happening with GeRed. He'll perceive himself as famous.


This is the New York Post talking about Gittany!

When Simon Gittany gets his first bag of mail in prison, the convicted murderer might be surprised to find admiring letters from strangers.
For some women, Gittany’s incarceration in a maximum-security prison last week has sent his attraction ratio skyrocketing.
These are the women who fall in love with men behind bars and just like Gittany’s model girlfriend, Rachelle Louise, many of them are attractive – even drop-dead gorgeous.
When Scott Peterson was sent to Death Row in California’s San Quentin prison for murdering his wife and their unborn child, dozens of women phoned asking for his address, with one teenager wasting no time in offering to marry him.

Some psychologists say women attracted to imprisoned men want control over a “helpless” prisoner and a relationship which provides them with the chance to “mother” or at least spoil the man.
They also might be chronically lonely, love-starved or in need of excitement, lured by the bad boy glamour of a real life criminal.
Psychologist and criminal profiler, Dr Tony Clarke, told news.com.au prison relationships were often a testament to the manipulative ability of the incarcerated inmate.
“There are two groups of women who get involved with prisoners,” he said.
“The self-selected group who write to men in jail and then there’s the women who work in jails. They think [the inmate] is a nice person who has changed and who loves them. [The women who work in jails] then become accomplices who help smuggle things into jail or help them escape.”

http://nypost.com/2013/12/03/the-women-who-fall-in-love-with-jailed-killers/

 

[Liadan]

I prefer to think of TF along the lines of HERO crush. Just like the Olympians who have battled the years of training to win a medal. They are certifiable heros. And that is how I view TF. I think he is definitely the medal winner in this case and for that I will always admire his treatment of the case, the voice he had for Allison and the depth and clarity he brought to the courtroom. Definitely worthy of accolades imho!

 

[Opinionsgalore]

The women who fall in love with jailed killers

I hope this isn't happening with GeRed. He'll perceive himself as famous.


This is the New York Post talking about Gittany!

When Simon Gittany gets his first bag of mail in prison, the convicted murderer might be surprised to find admiring letters from strangers.
For some women, Gittany’s incarceration in a maximum-security prison last week has sent his attraction ratio skyrocketing.
These are the women who fall in love with men behind bars and just like Gittany’s model girlfriend, Rachelle Louise, many of them are attractive – even drop-dead gorgeous.
When Scott Peterson was sent to Death Row in California’s San Quentin prison for murdering his wife and their unborn child, dozens of women phoned asking for his address, with one teenager wasting no time in offering to marry him.

Some psychologists say women attracted to imprisoned men want control over a “helpless” prisoner and a relationship which provides them with the chance to “mother” or at least spoil the man.
They also might be chronically lonely, love-starved or in need of excitement, lured by the bad boy glamour of a real life criminal.
Psychologist and criminal profiler, Dr Tony Clarke, told news.com.au prison relationships were often a testament to the manipulative ability of the incarcerated inmate.
“There are two groups of women who get involved with prisoners,” he said.
“The self-selected group who write to men in jail and then there’s the women who work in jails. They think [the inmate] is a nice person who has changed and who loves them. [The women who work in jails] then become accomplices who help smuggle things into jail or help them escape.”

http://nypost.com/2013/12/03/the-women-who-fall-in-love-with-jailed-killers/

The calling card of the personality disordered is their 'boo hoo poor me/sob story/I'm the victim' manipulation of their intended victim.

These manipulators KNOW (yes they KNOW what they are doing) that by appealing to another's sympathy, they can activate empathy in the intended victim - this in turn makes the victim feel as though they have a special bond to the 'manipulator'.

It's insidious evil stuff that only a monster would do.

 

[they'll get you]

He could have so easily have put Allison anywhere closer so she could be found faster. He drove 14 klms from home and put Allison under a secluded bridge to give him time.
Is this bloke really that smart enough to think about DNA and COD diminishing over time not only to save his hide but for the insurance investigations.
This average 'Joe' does not know about this things unless he researched it earlier.
I think this pointing more to premeditated?

Were plans foiled for murder on the drive to Mt Cootha the night before because it was a long way for just a coffee.
Just thinking out loud this morning.

 

[marlywings]

He could have so easily have put Allison anywhere closer so she could be found faster. He drove 14 klms from home and put Allison under a secluded bridge to give him time.
Is this bloke really that smart enough to think about DNA and COD diminishing over time not only to save his hide but for the insurance investigations.
This average 'Joe' does not know about this things unless he researched it earlier.
I think this pointing more to premeditated?

Were plans foiled for murder on the drive to Mt Cootha the night before because it was a long way for just a coffee.
Just thinking out loud this morning.

He may have been told about those types of things....

Statement of witness - Toni McHugh

21. Gerard never discussed insurances with me. I was never aware of a liability insurance police for the business but every agency does have to have a public liability insurance policy. I am aware that Nigel was previously a life insurance salesman because Nigel told me that. Nigel also told me that he was a former game warden in Africa. Nigel never tried to sell me a life insurance policy but did recommend that I take out a life insurance policy.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9048162&postcount=17

 

[Oddsocks]

With all due respect to you, lovely LadyBird, I think that the whole idea of the 'right man' being responsible for a woman's happiness is part of the problem here. It leads to women putting up with all sorts of outrageous behaviour from their male partners, as they are terrified of losing the relationship (even if it is completely dysfunctional and makes them miserable).

The only way we can be happy is by our own inner work - and love for self (tacky I know, but true). If a woman believes that her partner is the key to her happiness, it leads to a huge let down. No other person can do that for any of us. Also, I think part of the problem with pedestals is that they create an idealised image of the other - which is always going to crash down at some point when the partner's 'humanness' becomes too obvious to ignore.

JMO

:goodpost:

So true Isis

 

[marlywings]

I posted this recently...

The wiki link is about game wardens in USA. I wonder if they operate along the same as this in Africa....

Game Wardens

Game wardens, also known as troopers or wildlife troopers, or conservation officers, have broad duties within the law enforcement spectrum, such as ensuring that licensing requirements are met by hunters, fishermen, and trappers. Detailed investigations are common in order to solve wildlife crimes. Officers in some areas may be responsible for conducting investigations of hunting related homicides and boating accidents. Officers also make arrests of individuals driving or boating under the influence of alcohol or other drugs. Officers use DNA, ballistic, fingerprint, and any other comparative evidence to prosecute criminals that illegally kill wildlife or commit other crimes. Officers can also assist with wildlife management duties such as trapping, hunting in a helicopter or in fixed-wing airplane surveys

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_warden

 

[Thinking]

I prefer to think of TF along the lines of HERO crush. Just like the Olympians who have battled the years of training to win a medal. They are certifiable heros. And that is how I view TF. I think he is definitely the medal winner in this case and for that I will always admire his treatment of the case, the voice he had for Allison and the depth and clarity he brought to the courtroom. Definitely worthy of accolades imho!

I completely agree Liadan, well said - a hero crush. It has just been a bit of fun, I don't think anyone was intending (or IMO came across as) "lecherous". He is just doing his job, but doing it extremely well - as you said, he was Allison's voice in the courtroom. And he really "got" her and her situation, in my view. Finally, she has had a voice after all this time - and words cannot express our appreciation for that! Thanks for all your (and all the other lovely WSleuther's) courtroom reports btw, really appreciated

 

[Tangled_Web]

Some interesting reading about a local case involving the recent hit-and-run killing of a cyclist. It has taken some time but finally there has been an arrest.

http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/accused-hit-and-run-killer-geoffrey-sleba-released/2315896/

What really struck me though was an earlier event involving the person who has been arrested and that some of you might have heard about (it has been mentioned at least once on WS). Reading the findings of the inquest sent a chill down my spine. (I hope it is OK for me to copy this link - it is in the public domain)

http://www.courts.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/95278/cif-sleba-lm-20110624.pdf

 

[Seeking]

With all due respect to you, lovely LadyBird, I think that the whole idea of the 'right man' being responsible for a woman's happiness is part of the problem here. It leads to women putting up with all sorts of outrageous behaviour from their male partners, as they are terrified of losing the relationship (even if it is completely dysfunctional and makes them miserable).

The only way we can be happy is by our own inner work - and love for self (tacky I know, but true). If a woman believes that her partner is the key to her happiness, it leads to a huge let down. No other person can do that for any of us. Also, I think part of the problem with pedestals is that they create an idealised image of the other - which is always going to crash down at some point when the partner's 'humanness' becomes too obvious to ignore.

JMO

Isis, I agree that a person can't rely on their spouse to have inner happiness.
However, the other side is that if a persons partner is abusive in any way, no matter how intrinsically happy a person is, the person's peace, happiness and well being will be adversely effected. In a partnership as close as marriage it is impossible for people not to have an effect on each other in good and bad ways. But yes, so true that people shouldn't rely on others to find inner happiness. I believe that in a good marriage truly loving partners will work to bring out the best in each other.

 

[Thinking]

Some interesting reading about a local case involving the recent hit-and-run killing of a cyclist. It has taken some time but finally there has been an arrest.

http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/accused-hit-and-run-killer-geoffrey-sleba-released/2315896/

What really struck me though was an earlier event involving the person who has been arrested and that some of you might have heard about (it has been mentioned at least once on WS). Reading the findings of the inquest sent a chill down my spine. (I hope it is OK for me to copy this link - it is in the public domain)

http://www.courts.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/95278/cif-sleba-lm-20110624.pdf

Hi Tangled, yes I have been following this one, interesting isn't it - I remember the earlier event too

 

[marlywings]

Those photos aren't allowed thanks folks.

 

[they'll get you]

Baden-Clay murder trial: Large crowds in court evidence of a healthy legal system, top barrister says

This transparency is key to keeping Australia's legal apparatus - everyone from police to barristers and judges - held to account, says Ken Fleming, QC.


Mr Fleming was the defence barrister for former Bundaberg surgeon Jayant Patel and has worked as a United Nations prosecutor on international war crimes trials.


"Everyone should be held accountable for what they're doing, and the open scrutiny of it is a very important thing," he said.


"You just can't have things going on behind closed doors, because that engenders fear of the unknown."


Mr Fleming says the "whole delivery of justice" depends on high levels of public interest, because people can see and understand the process.






http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-...n-of-healthy-legal-system-lawyer-says/5591114

 

[ilk28]

I haven't read this US book, it looks interesting

Erased: Missing Women, Murdered Wives - Marilee Strong

Book description
Based on five years of investigative reporting and research into forensic psychology and criminology, Erased presents an original profile of a widespread and previously unrecognized type of murder: not a “hot-blooded,” spur-of-the-moment crime of passion, as domestic homicide is commonly viewed, but a cold-blooded, carefully planned and methodically executed form of “erasure.” These crimes are often committed by men with no criminal record or history of violence whatsoever, men leading functional and often successful lives until the moment they kill the women, and sometimes children, they claimed to love. A surprising number go on to kill a second or even third wife or girlfriend, often in exactly the same way.

Editorial Review
In her exhaustively researched account of the Scott Peterson trial and similar cases, journalist Strong (A Bright Red Scream) makes a convincing case that there is a growing number of men—whom she calls eraser killers—who murder their wives or girlfriends with premeditation and dispose of the body in an attempt to make both the crime and the victim disappear. They kill, says Strong, because the woman no longer serves any 'purpose' in the man's emotionally desolate world, or because he sees her as an obstacle to a life he fantasizes for himself.

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/erased-marilee-strong/1100295814?ean=9780470894002

 

[brizzymum]

Some interesting reading about a local case involving the recent hit-and-run killing of a cyclist. It has taken some time but finally there has been an arrest.

http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/accused-hit-and-run-killer-geoffrey-sleba-released/2315896/

What really struck me though was an earlier event involving the person who has been arrested and that some of you might have heard about (it has been mentioned at least once on WS). Reading the findings of the inquest sent a chill down my spine. (I hope it is OK for me to copy this link - it is in the public domain)

http://www.courts.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/95278/cif-sleba-lm-20110624.pdf

Thank you SO much for posting this. (My husband knew Martin Pearson and we hadn't heard this news yet)

 

[Tangled_Web]

I haven't read this US book, it looks interesting

Erased: Missing Women, Murdered Wives - Marilee Strong

Book description
Based on five years of investigative reporting and research into forensic psychology and criminology, Erased presents an original profile of a widespread and previously unrecognized type of murder: not a “hot-blooded,” spur-of-the-moment crime of passion, as domestic homicide is commonly viewed, but a cold-blooded, carefully planned and methodically executed form of “erasure.” These crimes are often committed by men with no criminal record or history of violence whatsoever, men leading functional and often successful lives until the moment they kill the women, and sometimes children, they claimed to love. A surprising number go on to kill a second or even third wife or girlfriend, often in exactly the same way.

Editorial Review
In her exhaustively researched account of the Scott Peterson trial and similar cases, journalist Strong (A Bright Red Scream) makes a convincing case that there is a growing number of men—whom she calls eraser killers—who murder their wives or girlfriends with premeditation and dispose of the body in an attempt to make both the crime and the victim disappear. They kill, says Strong, because the woman no longer serves any 'purpose' in the man's emotionally desolate world, or because he sees her as an obstacle to a life he fantasizes for himself.

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/erased-marilee-strong/1100295814?ean=9780470894002

I've not heard of this book but the description seems VERY relevant to GBC

 

[possumheart]

I've not heard of this book but the description seems VERY relevant to GBC

It is available as an audio book and I listened to it about 18 months ago. It made Gerrard's life and actions (as we are led to understand them) look rather dodgy.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

I completely agree Liadan, well said - a hero crush. It has just been a bit of fun, I don't think anyone was intending (or IMO came across as) "lecherous". He is just doing his job, but doing it extremely well - as you said, he was Allison's voice in the courtroom. And he really "got" her and her situation, in my view. Finally, she has had a voice after all this time - and words cannot express our appreciation for that! Thanks for all your (and all the other lovely WSleuther's) courtroom reports btw, really appreciated

Lol I hope I can be given a pass on being lecherous, because I'm pretty sure I'm younger than him!

----

With regard to relationships with men in jail...thanks for the postings, because I never really understood that. I mean it is one thing if youre already in the relationship and believe he is innocent or even that he will change, but I have to admit that I didn't have any idea why you would want to get into a relationship with a guy who is in prison for murder, of all things.

 

[KrystalKlear]

9/9/1970

Wouldn't it be great to see GBC brought in for sentencing on that date - Karma, considering he was so dismissive of Allison's birthday.

 

[Susan12]

I post this now as I just found it and don't want to lose it. I want to comment on it later tonight so will quote it then.

Judge Byrne direction to jury

"If you conclude that the accused lied because he realised that the truth would implicate him in killing his wife, you would need carefully also to consider whether the lie reveals a consciousness of guilt merely with respect to manslaughter as distinct from also revealing an intention to kill or to cause grievous bodily harm,” he said.

“You may only use the lie about cutting himself shaving – if it is a lie – as tending to prove the element of murder of an intention to kill or to cause grievous bodily harm if, on the whole of the evidence, the accused lied because he realised that the truth of the matter in that respect would show that, in killing his wife, he had intended to kill her or to cause her grievous bodily harm.



“It may be that, even if you were to find that the accused lied about his facial injuries because he realised that the truth would show him to be the killer, still you would not conclude that the lie shows that he realised that her death after scratching him with her fingernails would show that he had killed her intentionally.”

It is a little head spinning in the wording so maybe that's why the jury initially wanted a copy? I hope this wont confuse the jury into misinterpreting it and think the scratches can't really count the way they can.

In having the luxury of being able to see it written I think he just means...
If you think he lied about the scratches because he knows they show he killed her, then you can't use that alone to determine he intended to killed her or cause the grievous bodily harm on purpose. You need to look at the whole of the evidence to determine whether or not he intended to. Wh couldn't the judge just say that to confuse the jury less? So it seems to be a murder vs manslaughter thing, I wonder if that indicates anything on where the deliberating is at.