The "war",what was it all about

[SunnieRN]

Yet you continue to discount it.

Well of course, that's where they looked. Anything found would have been in items specific to this crime. But what if they had looked in the kitchen? Would they have found PR's fibers there as well? In numbers greater or lesser than in the basement? We will never know.

Well then you aren't trying very hard because secondary transfer explains it very easily. If you want to toss secondary transfer then I think you have the burden of proving it couldn't have happened that way. (My position is that it could be either, and we have no way of knowing which)

Unfortunately that doesn't rule out secondary transfer.

And do we know how the tape fell when JR ripped it off? Do we know it didn't land on the floor picking up fibers? I don't need to resort to last minute contamination. The fibers could easily be there from secondary transfer.

http://dofs.gbi.georgia.gov/sites/dofs.gbi.georgia.gov/files/imported/vgn/images/portal/cit_1210/57/14/180852003GBI-TraceEvidence.pdf

" ... Remember that fiber matches between two individuals who share the same environment (e.g. live together or drive the same car) are essentially meaningless"

You answered your own question about primary transfer in this post. PR stated she had NEVER worn that sweater while painting, or when she had been in the basement. Never is a strong word, imho.

So, you have duct tape, found in the basement, a piece on JonBenets mouth, pulled off by JR, with FW watching. That piece of tape was torn off the roll in the basement. It had fibers from PR's jacket on it. The duct tape was not found on the kitchen counter, the junk drawer in the kitchen that the R's stated was where they kept 'their' flashlight. The roll was in the basement.

There were also fibers from said jacket in the paint tray. Remember, PR's own words, they discount the possibility of those being from secondary transfer. Just another place that PR or JR were caught showing they lied.

 

[BOESP]

Thanks, SunnieRN. Hopefully EdmundDantesIII will see this.

EDIII, if you will use the Search function here, you'll find that Chrishope has many of the same views and comments as you do. Maybe the two of you can help each other in evolving your like-minded theories

 

[UKGuy]

I think we'd ALL like to know more about it. They were RABID supporters of the Rs in the aftermath of the crime- which is odd considering JR described them as "friends, but not really all that close" or words to that effect.

I mean, who quits jobs, sells a house and pulls kids out of school and moves to another state follow "not that close" friends. There was a reason why they needed to keep them close, believe me. To ensure silence maybe? JR gave him a job, too.

DeeDee249,
After the death of JonBenet. Burke Ramsey and Douglas Stine discussed the details of JonBenet's murder, how she was killed, what was employed in killing her etc.

Douglas Stine and Burke Ramsey continue to this day, to be close friends, they email and chat on a regular basis.

If you go back to the Christmas Party on 12/23, the day JonBenet did not feel pretty. You find it was Susan Stine who answered the door to the 911 responder. Which is extremely curious since Susan Stine was patently not the householder.

She was, in estimation, simply a first line of defense, which worked. As backup, Patsy Ramsey was probably primed to open the door and say politely Go Away There was a mistake, everything is fine.

If everything was OK, and the 911 call was simply accidental, i.e. children playing at a party etc. Whats wrong with Patsy opening the door and asking the responder in, for some Christmas cheer and Ramsey largesse possibly in the form of coffee and dounuts?

I think someone abused JonBenet at the party, and this alerted all the Ramsey friends, to the Mega JonBenet thing, code for her sexualization and an ongoing problem that needed to be dealt with.

I reckon Playing doctors with JonBenet had become a regular event, particulary when Burke Ramsey held his Slumber Parties.


Its quite likely that Douglas Stine knew far too much regarding the domestic life of the Ramseys!



.

 

[SunnieRN]

DeeDee249,
After the death of JonBenet. Burke Ramsey and Douglas Stine discussed the details of JonBenet's murder, how she was killed, what was employed in killing her etc.

Douglas Stine and Burke Ramsey continue to this day, to be close friends, they email and chat on a regular basis.

If you go back to the Christmas Party on 12/23, the day JonBenet did not feel pretty. You find it was Susan Stine who answered the door to the 911 responder. Which is extremely curious since Susan Stine was patently not the householder.

She was, in estimation, simply a first line of defense, which worked. As backup, Patsy Ramsey was probably primed to open the door and say politely Go Away There was a mistake, everything is fine.

If everything was OK, and the 911 call was simply accidental, i.e. children playing at a party etc. Whats wrong with Patsy opening the door and asking the responder in, for some Christmas cheer and Ramsey largesse possibly in the form of coffee and dounuts?

I think someone abused JonBenet at the party, and this alerted all the Ramsey friends, to the Mega JonBenet thing, code for her sexualization and an ongoing problem that needed to be dealt with.

I reckon Playing doctors with JonBenet had become a regular event, particulary when Burke Ramsey held his Slumber Parties.


Its quite likely that Douglas Stine knew far too much regarding the domestic life of the Ramseys!



.

For a couple who were 'friends, but not close', they certainly got REALLY close, really fast. Did the Steins have any other children? I think the Whites had a son and daughter.

Does anyone know where the Steins are now or what they are doing? I think that they know the entire story. F and P White got railroaded, when they refused to go along with the R's plan, I imagine. I can only imagine the problems they had due to this. I see them as very courageous people.

 

[SunnieRN]

For those that have not read FW's letter:

http://extras.denverpost.com/news/whiteltr.htm

Found this interesting as I re-read the letter:

The May 6, 1998 issue of the Colorado Journal, a publication for the legal community, presented an article flattering to Alex Hunter entitled "D.A. Winks At This One-With or Without a Grand Jury Indictment Boulder's Prosecutor Will Still Shine.'' The article is written around comments received from Senator Perlmutter and district attorney Bill Ritter. It reads:

"If Hunter does take the matter to the grand jury and that panel manages to wrestle the evidence it needs to hand down an actual indictment, Hunter will appear the hero for going that route.

But if they fail to do so, Hunter could still come out smelling like a rose with the help of a little-known state law that went into effect last fall: That grand jury reports may be released to the public if no indictment results from its probe.

That way, a prosecutor facing pressure to file charges can say, "See even the grand jury couldn't find anything,'' said Sen Ed Perlmuner, D-Golden, who co- sponsored the law in the 1997 Colorado Legislature.

The law, which only applies to Class 1, 2, and 3 felony cases, was intended to help ease the public's mind in certain investigations where a prosecutor fails to file charges, despite pressure from the police to do so as in the JonBenet case, he said.'' (italics added).

In the article Sen. Perlmutter indicated that he sponsored the bill because he "didn'twant the grand juries to be abused, especially in high-profile cases as this one (the Ramsey case).''

For his part, Mr. Ritter said:

"I don't think Alex Hunter would go to the grand jury for political cover, that's just not how Alex Hunter operates,'' said Denver District Attorney Bill Ritter.

"The reason you go to a grand jury is because, as DA you do not have the ability in the state of Colorado to compel testimony or compel the production of documents.''

 

[Nom de plume]

DeeDee249,
After the death of JonBenet. Burke Ramsey and Douglas Stine discussed the details of JonBenet's murder, how she was killed, what was employed in killing her etc.

Douglas Stine and Burke Ramsey continue to this day, to be close friends, they email and chat on a regular basis.
If you go back to the Christmas Party on 12/23, the day JonBenet did not feel pretty. You find it was Susan Stine who answered the door to the 911 responder. Which is extremely curious since Susan Stine was patently not the householder.

She was, in estimation, simply a first line of defense, which worked. As backup, Patsy Ramsey was probably primed to open the door and say politely Go Away There was a mistake, everything is fine.

If everything was OK, and the 911 call was simply accidental, i.e. children playing at a party etc. Whats wrong with Patsy opening the door and asking the responder in, for some Christmas cheer and Ramsey largesse possibly in the form of coffee and dounuts?

I think someone abused JonBenet at the party, and this alerted all the Ramsey friends, to the Mega JonBenet thing, code for her sexualization and an ongoing problem that needed to be dealt with.

I reckon Playing doctors with JonBenet had become a regular event, particulary when Burke Ramsey held his Slumber Parties.


Its quite likely that Douglas Stine knew far too much regarding the domestic life of the Ramseys!



.

BBM How do you know this?

 

[UKGuy]

BBM How do you know this?

Nom de plume,
A little research, its all in the public domain.


There was/is more going than just the death of JonBenet on 12/25 subsequent events, re:Stines, bear testimony to this.



.

 

[otg]

For a couple who were 'friends, but not close', they certainly got REALLY close, really fast. Did the Steins have any other children? I think the Whites had a son and daughter.

Does anyone know where the Steins are now or what they are doing? I think that they know the entire story. F and P White got railroaded, when they refused to go along with the R's plan, I imagine. I can only imagine the problems they had due to this. I see them as very courageous people.

SunnieRN, ask and...

I don’t know if it is good etiquette to post all the links showing this (even though it is all from public information), so if anyone wants the links send me a PM and I’ll share them. But it appears that the Stines (all three) still live in Atlanta (although GS and DS don’t have a pit bull in their house, if you get my drift).

DS is a “recent Finance Graduate with experience in the corporate world who is seeking a position in the political arena.” (Actually, he graduated from GIT in 2009.) He was a member of Pi Kappa Phi, Phi Alpha Delta, and Push America.

Dr. GS was born in 1948, and is Sr. Vice President of Kaludis Consulting. From his bio at Kaludis, notice that his venture with JR in Jaleo is left out: “Before joining Kaludis Consulting in 1999, he served as Vice President for Budget and Finance of the University of Colorado...”

SS (how apropos) was born in 1949, and was last known to be the Director of Development at GSU.

 

[UKGuy]

SunnieRN, ask and...

I don’t know if it is good etiquette to post all the links showing this (even though it is all from public information), so if anyone wants the links send me a PM and I’ll share them. But it appears that the Stines (all three) still live in Atlanta (although GS and DS don’t have a pit bull in their house, if you get my drift).

DS is a “recent Finance Graduate with experience in the corporate world who is seeking a position in the political arena.” (Actually, he graduated from GIT in 2009.) He was a member of Pi Kappa Phi, Phi Alpha Delta, and Push America.

Dr. GS was born in 1948, and is Sr. Vice President of Kaludis Consulting. From his bio at Kaludis, notice that his venture with JR in Jaleo is left out: “Before joining Kaludis Consulting in 1999, he served as Vice President for Budget and Finance of the University of Colorado...”

SS (how apropos) was born in 1949, and was last known to be the Director of Development at GSU.

otg,
Wonder what JR will make of that?


.

 

[midwest mama]

Kaludis Consulting? Is that the Latin word for 'collusion'?? :waitasec:

 

[dodie20]

otg,
Wonder what JR will make of that?


.

He should be used to it by now. Nobody in their right mind would want to be associated with JR, especially any time after JB was murdered. As more of the truth and details are released, I expect more and more people to forget they ever worked with him and people we we were led to believe were 'friends', will say they barely knew him, or were only there for PR's sake. moo

 

[UKGuy]

He should be used to it by now. Nobody in their right mind would want to be associated with JR, especially any time after JB was murdered. As more of the truth and details are released, I expect more and more people to forget they ever worked with him and people we we were led to believe were 'friends', will say they barely knew him, or were only there for PR's sake. moo

dodie20,
I agree. I'll bet he has had few doors shut in his face. JR wanted to be a politician too, can you imagine the headlines if had been elected, then the GJ indictment stuff popped up, LOL.

 

[ukrberserker]

I think the "war" between Ramsey and FW was because FW walked in on JR molesting JBR, maybe in the bathroom. Was JAR or DS at the Christmas party? That's when everyone thinks something happened to JBR. It could have also been JAR was seen doing something to her. Just shooting in the dark here.

 

[midwest mama]

I think the "war" between Ramsey and FW was because FW walked in on JR molesting JBR, maybe in the bathroom. Was JAR or DS at the Christmas party? That's when everyone thinks something happened to JBR. It could have also been JAR was seen doing something to her. Just shooting in the dark here.

JAR was not, but DS was - along with several other young boys all about that age.

This has been posted before, but hope it'll save you some time in your searching:
The Guest List for the Ramsey's Christmas party Dec. 23, 1996, 5pm-8pm
* John and Patsy Ramsey, Burke (9), JonBenét (6)
* Don Paugh (Patsy's father)
* Fleet and Priscilla White, daughter Daphne (5-6), son Fleet (7-8)
* Mr. & Mrs. R.A. Brown (Priscilla's parents)
* Cliff Gaston, boyfriend of Priscilla's sister, Allison Shoeny (attended alone, without his
girlfriend) Visiting the Whites - from California
* Bill Cox, husband of Priscilla's niece Heather. (attended alone, without his wife) Visiting the Whites - from California
* John and Barbara Fernie, son (10), daughter (14-15?)
* Friend of the Fernies - male (about 9)
* Glen and Susan Stine, son Doug (9)
* Susan Stine's mother
* Glen Stine's mother
* Larry and Pinkie Barber, two daughters (8 and 6)
* Joe and Betty Barnhill
* The Barnhill's boarder, Glenn Meyer, was not invited. He went to the house to tell the Barnhills something about the dog barking and was invited to join the party. He did for a short time.
* Linda Hoffmann-Pugh, her daughter, Ariana (12)
* Bill and Janet McReynolds (Santa)

 

[UKGuy]

JAR was not, but DS was - along with several other young boys all about that age.

This has been posted before, but hope it'll save you some time in your searching:
The Guest List for the Ramsey's Christmas party Dec. 23, 1996, 5pm-8pm
* John and Patsy Ramsey, Burke (9), JonBenét (6)
* Don Paugh (Patsy's father)
* Fleet and Priscilla White, daughter Daphne (5-6), son Fleet (7-8)
* Mr. & Mrs. R.A. Brown (Priscilla's parents)
* Cliff Gaston, boyfriend of Priscilla's sister, Allison Shoeny (attended alone, without his
girlfriend) Visiting the Whites - from California
* Bill Cox, husband of Priscilla's niece Heather. (attended alone, without his wife) Visiting the Whites - from California
* John and Barbara Fernie, son (10), daughter (14-15?)
* Friend of the Fernies - male (about 9)
* Glen and Susan Stine, son Doug (9)
* Susan Stine's mother
* Glen Stine's mother
* Larry and Pinkie Barber, two daughters (8 and 6)
* Joe and Betty Barnhill
* The Barnhill's boarder, Glenn Meyer, was not invited. He went to the house to tell the Barnhills something about the dog barking and was invited to join the party. He did for a short time.
* Linda Hoffmann-Pugh, her daughter, Ariana (12)
* Bill and Janet McReynolds (Santa)

midwest mama,
Was it simply coincidence that DS's mother Susan Stine answered the door to the 911 responder, why not Patsy or JR?

.

 

[andreww]

I honestly get the impression that Fleet White is a straightforward, honest man. I don't think he knows who killed JB. He knows what he saw, and he prefers to keep that evidence between him and LE as he has seen to much evidence compromised or discredited after it showed up in the tabloids. I think that if Fleet had suspected the Rs, he would never have gone to Atlanta with them. I also believe that it was in Atlanta that he first started to have doubts about the Ramseys. I don't think he could comprehend how his supposedly innocent friends were refusing to talk to police about the murder of their daughter.

Fleet's recent account of his and John's confrontation in Atlanta seems far more believable that the Ramsey's account of the same event. According to Patsy, Fleet burst in to the house like a madman, yelling and screaming, yet she has no idea what he said. You mean to tell me that after such an event she wouldn't ask her husband "what was Fleet so upset about?". Nope, she didn't have a clue why their best friends for the past few years had suddenly abandoned them, and she didn't make any effort to find out why. Fleets version of events makes far more sense. His disgust over the lavish parties, champagne and fine crystal in the wake of JBs death led him to a sit down with John where he urged him to return to Boulder and talk to police. This was the beginning of the Ramsey slogan "if your aren't with us, you're against us", and immediately the cast of suspicion was placed on Fleet and his family.

Does he know who did it? No. But I think he is quite aware that the Ramsey's were probably involved, not because of what he witnessed at the crime scene, but because of the Ramsey's actions after the fact.

 

[elannia]

Remember PW tried telling PR something in Atl right after the murder... she said "I know whats going on here and if you coukd give me a few minutes of your time I could let you in on some things". PR said "Priscilla how can how know so much I am the mother of this child and I know nothing. Makes me wonder what PW wanted to tell her

 

[andreww]

Remember PW tried telling PR something in Atl right after the murder... she said "I know whats going on here and if you coukd give me a few minutes of your time I could let you in on some things". PR said "Priscilla how can how know so much I am the mother of this child and I know nothing. Makes me wonder what PW wanted to tell her

The Ramsey's account of their interaction with the Whites in Atlanta seems to be total fiction in my opinion. Do you think PW actually held the key to this case or that PR was just saying that to throw further suspicion on their one time best friends?

 

[otg]

Remember PW tried telling PR something in Atl right after the murder... she said "I know whats going on here and if you coukd give me a few minutes of your time I could let you in on some things". PR said "Priscilla how can how know so much I am the mother of this child and I know nothing. Makes me wonder what PW wanted to tell her

13 So anyway, I didn't want to think
14 too much about it, and then when we were in
15 Atlanta, I just sort of remember Priscilla
16 standing in my mother's living room, family
17 room, you know, just kind of like this and
18 saying, "well, I know what's going on" and she
19 said, "if you would give me a few minutes of
20 your time, I could let you in on some things."
21 And I turned to her and I said,
22 "Priscilla, how can you know so much?" And I
23 said, "I am the mother of this child. And I
24 know nothing."
25 TOM HANEY: What was she referring
0076
1 to?
2 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't have a clue.
3 I really, I mean, you know, so many times I wish
4 I would have taken her up on it to see what the
5 hell she was talking about. There was just her
6 -- you know, it was just this kind of, I know
7 what's going on here and you don't. And if you
8 give me a few minutes of your time, I could clue
9 you in.
10 TOM HANEY: But she didn't give you
11 a clue or--
12 PATSY RAMSEY: Didn't say, didn't
13 say. So that was like the second little thing.
​

Keeping this story in mind, consider the following for a moment:

FW-III was closer in age to JonBenet, but because of gender he usually drifted toward Burke when the families were together. At parties also, he would probably play with the boys instead of girls who might be his own age. So the group of boys included younger ones as well as older. Even though he might not participate in conversations and actions of the older boys, he would have an idea about what was going on with the understanding that some things just aren’t told to parents. Now consider this in light of what was reported about JonBenet saying to someone at the earlier Christmas party that she “didn’t feel pretty.” Then several days later, JonBenet is sexually assaulted and dead. Most likely every parent with kids who knew the Ramseys was grilling their own kids about anything at all that they might know or might have heard. Perhaps even not understanding what it was all about, FW-III might very well have related enough about the kids’ “secrets” to his parents that they were able to piece it all together so that Priscilla did “know what’s going on.” Or maybe Patsy misunderstood or didn’t relate the exact words to investigators. Maybe what Priscilla actually said was, “I know what was going on.”


And why on earth when hearing something like that after her daughter had been murdered would Patsy not grab her by the shoulders and scream, “Tell me! Tell me what you know! My daughter has been brutally assaulted and murdered and I need to know any information you or anyone else might have!”


No, instead she simply says, “I am the mother of this child. And I know nothing.”

 

[andreww]

Exactly. Patsy's story is like a scene of a soap opera. You can almost hear the director yell "cut". But there was no director there, so my next question to Patsy would have been "what did you say next?". I'm sure after something like that she wouldn't simply change the topic. You can't have a conversation like that with no further conversation. IMO it simply didn't happen.


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