Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #3

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We probably will not see any more documents before the trial, however, right? I need to go find those ping threads also. There is a wealth of information in there, and I bet LE hasn't put it all together any better...or even as good as.... you guys have! Great job!
I have heard many times about the "Sunshine Law" in Florida. I thought that pretty much everything had to be made public.

Can anybody give me an accurate description of what to expect, please?

I was assuming/hoping that a lot would be made public when it was released as "Discovery" to the defence.
Is that true?
 
I see no reason whatsoever to give KC the benefit of the doubt by promoting an accidental death/panicked cover up theory.

She is charged with first degree murder. Apparently, I have the same opinion as the investigators who have actually been in the same room with KC, talked to everyone involved by virtue of being unwitting witnesses and have seen ALL the evidence - not just what was released to the public.

Speculate until the cows come home, but the truth is much more ugly than the hopeful scenario of an accidental death. It was intentional murder, plain and simple.

KC never once attempted to claim Caylee died as the result of negligence or accident, despite the fact that she was given the opportunity to do so by LE and that her attorney has given her all the wiggle room possible by telling her the consequences of negligent homicide versus intentional homicide. She didn't "reach out" for that life ring, instead she continues with the June 9th Nanny kidnapping story. Why? Because the child was murdered and she wants the murder pinned on Nanny.

This is a woman whose child was missing for 31 days, she never reported it, told nothing but lies to those who were trying to find her child and then was furious with LE for arresting her on a "f-ing whim". This is a woman who does not understand why failing to report her missing child and lying to LE is such a big deal, especially after she told LE she knows how stupid it was and promises to never do it again. She even stated something like "If this ever happens again, I will call LE right away." Oh. Right. Ok.

I am so glad she learned her lesson, but I don't think she will have the opportunity to show anyone how much she learned.

She is as dumb as they come and I still think she is mentally challenged. If I were Baez I would be scrambling to get an IQ test to show that she does not have the mental accuity to comprehend what she has done or the consequences of such acts. She operates at a basic level, below which she would need someone to button her shirt. I have yet to hear of her ever doing anything that indicates intelligence. Here are her big accomplishments at age 22:

She almost graduated from HS with her friends, but not quite.
She sold film or took photos at Universal on a part time, maybe even seasonal basis.
She can text message.
She can drive a car.
She can steal.
She can use her friend's stolen checks but signs her own name as the payor.
She can get pregnant and deliver a baby.

These are the most basic of endeavors.
There is nothing intelligent about this beast.

(bolded above by me)
That is why I believe Casey SUFFOCATED HER with the pillow from the bed. I just do not believe she xanaxed her on a regular basis. To much time and effort. To messy. Chloroform came from the pesticide CA or LA used in the car before calling the police. Chloroform searches on computer came from the curiosity she had about Ric's posting on myspace.. (computer records show that she went from myspace to google..credited goes to WS'ser JWG)

Caylee was getting older and maybe not taking naps so easy.. she was cranky and Casey couldn't handle another 2 year old tantrum and she FLAT OUT SUFFOCATED HER TO SHUT HER UP. This is why there is computer usage at 3 pm at the A house When CA and GA are gone and the usage ABRUPTLY STOPS.
After the SUFFOCATION, she hid her in the backyard in the playhouse. ( I am not sure about the ladder by the pool.. this was stated by CA and I DO NOT BELIEVE this to be more than a diversion tatic.)

Casey realizes that she is NOW FREE of the child she did not want and she will use the babysitter story kidnap lie she recently seen on a movie... so she proceeded to wrap Caylee's mouth in duct tape and put her in a garbage bag. She dumped her on the 18th. (2.5 days of decomp in the car.) The leakage in the car has bacteria that continues to grow and make the odor stronger. Casey dumps the car at AMSCOT hence the text or call to AH "I got rid of the smell aka dead squirrel.) She did not come up with the name of ZFG until she was talking to the police... she used a name she heard from her friend Kiomarie and possibly from the tattoo parlor. I believe the WSer's found a connection to both. She came up with Sawgrass because she might have picked up on someone talking (the connection to ZFG) at the tattoo parlor. I also think she was using Kiomarie as the "description" of what the nanny looked like. CA agreed that she heard the name Zanny only to protect her daughter... and to cover the fact she was guilty of not really knowing who babysit her granddaughter.

Casey was to dumb and lazy to do much more... she went out partying on the 21st because... she just thought this all would go away. What if CA would have given her just "one more day?" Casey would have disappeared. Cindy would have forever thought that Casey had ran off with Caylee to another state after believing yet another lie that Casey retrieved her from Zeniada and she moved away to another state never to return. Casey could have precipitated this lie for the rest of her life. Cindy would have never turned this into the police.
 
I have heard many times about the "Sunshine Law" in Florida. I thought that pretty much everything had to be made public.

Can anybody give me an accurate description of what to expect, please?

I was assuming/hoping that a lot would be made public when it was released as "Discovery" to the defence.
Is that true?

Sorry I'm not much help, I've wondered the same thing. Policies regarding release of info, to journalists vs private citizense eg, aren't entirely clear to me either. These laws were recently tested, and with varying results--not all counties, or departments, fared equally.

(There is) "a tendency of government agencies to respond differently to citizen requestors than they do to reporters. As one reporter who did not identify herself as such discovered: "(She) was told that she would have received prompt attention if the custodian of the record had known she was a reporter..."

"Orange County. All record requests in Orange County were met, with the exception of the Sheriff's Office. The requesting party was referred to the public-information office, who said the records might not exist and that they would have to file a written request. Capt. Angelo Nieves responded by saying the request was vague and that "We did as much as we could based on the circumstances. Obviously, there was an ongoing effort in trying to fulfill the request."


http://sunshinereview.org/index.php/Public_record_requests_meet_with_confusion_in_central_Florida
 
(bolded above by me)
That is why I believe Casey SUFFOCATED HER with the pillow from the bed.

Respectfully snipped for space.

This is very interesting, most of these theories are, but how did she get the name of ZFG? Another poster said Zanny was mentioned to AR BEFORE Caylee 'came up missing', (I haven't looked it up yet) yet ZFG was at Sawgrass July 17, IIRC.
Lanie
 
Truth be told, I don't always accept my analysis either and am constantly questioning the conclusions I have drawn. I frequently feel starved for information!

Just wanted to say I often share your opinions on this case JWG. Oh, and if you're not already you'd make a great detective.;)
 
Hello, it is interesting to read the many posts here. I never considered that "Zanny the babysitter" could actually be "Xanax" although that does make sense. She could have been giving that poor child Xanax to put her to sleep while she was going out and partying. However the short action of the Xanax could have made her consider researching the Chloroform...since she knew the Xanax would indeed eventually become addicting. I think this crime was premeditated and she was considering killing Caylee months in advance. She was resentful of Caylee and she was a hassle to KC. I'm thinking that the argument between her mother was the straw. I'm wondering if possibly she had given her Xanax, then used Chloroform, put the tape around her mouth to keep her quiet, and then put a rag in the car with Chloroform on it so that if she woke up she would inhale more to put her back to sleep and/or kill her? Just my opinion. My opinion also that KC needs DP.


Why not suffocation? I just think xanex was not the murder weapon.
 
Just wanted to say I often share your opinions on this case JWG. Oh, and if you're not already you'd make a great detective.;)


ITA:clap::clap::clap:
I have thought JWG's work on the computer searches and pings are excellent. JWG is by far one of the best posters and I find to be most fair and accurate. Although I only respectivly disagree that it was death by suffocation due to anger more than an accidental drowning....
 
I just do not believe she xanaxed her on a regular basis. To much time and effort. To messy. Chloroform came from the pesticide CA or LA used in the car before calling the police. Chloroform searches on computer came from the curiosity she had about Ric's posting on myspace.. (computer records show that she went from myspace to google..credited goes to WS'ser JWG)...

(respectfully snipped)

Casey realizes that she is NOW FREE of the child she did not want and she will use the Zenaida babysitter story kidnap lie she recently seen on a movie... so she proceeded to wrap Caylee's mouth in duct tape and put her in a garbage bag. She dumped her on the 18th. (2.5 days of decomp in the car.) The leakage in the car has bacteria that continues to grow and make the odor stronger. Casey dumps the car at AMSCOT hence the text or call to AH "I got rid of the smell aka dead squirrel.)

(respectfully snipped, bold mine) Agree w bolded. I'm thankful that you, like JWG and myself, can allow alternate explanations for computer searches, and that duct taping was part of her staged cover-up. There was no need for KC to murder Caylee to be "free" when there were grandparents offering to continue as caregivers. I have always maintained, "The rain falls on the just, as well as the unjust." Or in other words, accidents can and frequently DO happen to even the most simple, narcissistic, immature, deceitful and especially the most irresponsible and selfish among us. JMO
 
Sorry I'm not much help, I've wondered the same thing. Policies regarding release of info, to journalists vs private citizense eg, aren't entirely clear to me either. These laws were recently tested, and with varying results--not all counties, or departments, fared equally.

(There is) "a tendency of government agencies to respond differently to citizen requestors than they do to reporters. As one reporter who did not identify herself as such discovered: "(She) was told that she would have received prompt attention if the custodian of the record had known she was a reporter..."

"Orange County. All record requests in Orange County were met, with the exception of the Sheriff's Office. The requesting party was referred to the public-information office, who said the records might not exist and that they would have to file a written request. Capt. Angelo Nieves responded by saying the request was vague and that "We did as much as we could based on the circumstances. Obviously, there was an ongoing effort in trying to fulfill the request."


http://sunshinereview.org/index.php/Public_record_requests_meet_with_confusion_in_central_Florida
Thanks for the reply and the link. Looks like OC is as good as any county when it comes to releases.

I wait with anticipation.
 
Respectfully snipped for space.

This is very interesting, most of these theories are, but how did she get the name of ZFG? Another poster said Zanny was mentioned to AR BEFORE Caylee 'came up missing', (I haven't looked it up yet) yet ZFG was at Sawgrass July 17, IIRC.
Lanie

Casey's friend Kiomarie has connections to other Zenaida, IIRC.. I believe we also made a connection to the real Zenaida to people at the tattoo parlor. Casey used bits of truth in all her lies. When she got her tattoo on July 2nd.. she could have heard the connections to Zenaida speaking about Zenaida's possible apartment searches. (I hear more stuff about other people in a beauty shop). She used this information off the top of her head. She knew about Sawgrass as another acquaintance lived there.
I think her description of Zenaida to CA on jailhouse video fits Kiomarie.
 
(respectfully snipped, bold mine) Agree w bolded. I'm thankful that you, like JWG and myself, can allow alternate explanations for computer searches, and that duct taping was part of her staged cover-up. There was no need for KC to murder Caylee to be "free" when there were grandparents offering to continue as caregivers. I have always maintained, "The rain falls on the just, as well as the unjust." Or in other words, accidents can and frequently DO happen to even the most simple, narcissistic, immature, deceitful and especially the most irresponsible and selfish among us. JMO

I will not rule out the accident scenario... but in regards to what i bolded above.... 18 years is a LONG time in the mind of a 22 yo immature mother. Even if her parents were supportive and caregivers.... regarding the fight the night before she may have well thought she did not want her mother to have Caylee (ie: "Maybe I am a spiteful ") nor was she certain she could handle being a full-time parent. JMO At age 21, I was a mother of a 2 year old girl and now I am 44 yo mother of a 3 year old girl. My youngest DD is only 1 week older than Caylee. I am much more patient and now that I look back.. there was 1 time I came close to abusing my oldest daughter when she was 2 due to her tantrums. I just wanted her to stop crying. Also there was a time she wandered far out into the pasture.(we lived on a farm)... I was busy yakking on the phone.(the kind that hung on the wall!!) I could have LOST her that day! :eek:
So either scenario is plausible to me... I agree with an early post of yours that stated we do not need to find the darkest most horrid scenario....
:blowkiss:
 
Casey's friend Kiomarie has connections to other Zenaida, IIRC.. I believe we also made a connection to the real Zenaida to people at the tattoo parlor. Casey used bits of truth in all her lies. When she got her tattoo on July 2nd.. she could have heard the connections to Zenaida speaking about Zenaida's possible apartment searches. (I hear more stuff about other people in a beauty shop). She used this information off the top of her head. She knew about Sawgrass as another acquaintance lived there.
I think her description of Zenaida to CA on jailhouse video fits Kiomarie.

The only problem with the real Zenaida is the hyphen Fernandez. The real Zenaida uses a middle initial (off memory I want to say G but that could be wrong).

I also have trouble with KC using a "bit of truth in her lies" most of what KC says has no truth to it at all IMO. When there is a bit of truth it may well be an accident. I don't think she cares one way or another. If she did, she wouldn't have let her family suffer all these months, saying Caylee is alive.

Interesting theory though. I love reading other's well put together thoughts that make sense. To me keeping a baby in a trunk, in Orlando, in June, makes no sense. If she did it once, Caylee succumbed to this. Using Chloroform on a 2 y o doesn't make sense. If she did it once, Caylee succumbed to this. How an uneducated young woman would be able to repeatedly dose a baby with Xanex, to make her sleep all nite but not have any noticeable side effects doesn't make sense.

I haven't been able to stick with a cause of death, we have too many viable options. How crazy is that, when you're speaking about a 2 y o! I do believe KC did something, this was not an 'accident' in the sense if my 2yo suddenly passed from an over dose it would have been an accidental dosing, I would never try to put her to sleep with drugs. Anyone who would drug a baby to sleep, without a prescription for that child is playing with fire and when you play with fire someone is gonna get burned. All MOO!

The next doc drop is gonna be a doozy! and I love a good doozy!
 
(respectfully snipped, bold mine) Agree w bolded. I'm thankful that you, like JWG and myself, can allow alternate explanations for computer searches, and that duct taping was part of her staged cover-up. There was no need for KC to murder Caylee to be "free" when there were grandparents offering to continue as caregivers. I have always maintained, "The rain falls on the just, as well as the unjust." Or in other words, accidents can and frequently DO happen to even the most simple, narcissistic, immature, deceitful and especially the most irresponsible and selfish among us. JMO

Well, I'm thankful there are people out there like me that can look at what has been shown of the family dynamics and realize had Casey signed Caylee over to Cindy, she would have had her face rubbed in it for all eternity, and also see the possibility Caylee is the main reason the A's let Casey get away with so much lying and stealing. As far as the duct taping, that is still rumour at this point. I happen to believe it is true, because Caylee's bones were found scattered over an acre of ground, and if the skull rolled out of a bag with hair still attached, it makes sense to me duct tape was involved in keeping the hair and skull somewhat together in the absence of any soft tissue. I just find it much more simpler and likely the duct tape was used before death, not some time after to keep body fluid from leaking out.
Lanie
 
Well, I'm thankful there are people out there like me that can look at what has been shown of the family dynamics and realize had Casey signed Caylee over to Cindy, she would have had her face rubbed in it for all eternity, and also see the possibility Caylee is the main reason the A's let Casey get away with so much lying and stealing. As far as the duct taping, that is still rumour at this point. I happen to believe it is true, because Caylee's bones were found scattered over an acre of ground, and if the skull rolled out of a bag with hair still attached, it makes sense to me duct tape was involved in keeping the hair and skull somewhat together in the absence of any soft tissue. I just find it much more simpler and likely the duct tape was used before death, not some time after to keep body fluid from leaking out.
Lanie
I could accept either time for the duct tape being used. A lot of the conficting theories fit the evidence we have seen so far. We simply need more data to refine our theories. Document dump needed, or one of the players needs to "spill some beans"
 
Phone records show KC actively texting AL the night of the 14th / early morning of the 15th. That would indicate they are not together. Her cell phone pings from towers consistent with the parent's home as well, although she could have been at Lee's that night instead.

There are three cell towers that ping from the parent's home and from Lee's home. However, the probability one of the towers will or will not ping changes depending on which of the two locations she is at. Bond did some great statistical analysis work a couple weeks ago showing that the cell phone ping patterns from June 10 - June 14 change between the hours of 8PM and 8AM, indicating a high probability she is at Lee's and not at her parent's those nights. Why isolate on those hours? Because they are Caylee's sleep time.

Lee was reportedly not home those nights, so KC may have been using his place to crash if she was trying to get away from CA.

(bold mine) Re our earlier discussion, couldn't this have also been KC's original plan for the nite of the 16th as well?? Especially given the argument w CA on Father's Day and IF there were never previous arrangements made specifically to stay w TL that nite, could KC have just been letting CA cool down so initially planning to stay that nite at LA's?? Just asking, I can't recall all of their text content, and guess I probably need to go and review TL's interview too.
 
With all the simplistic knowledge I have gained by watching crime dramas over the years: The last person to see the victim alive is almost always the murderer. The evidence shows that to be KC on the evening of the 15th or into the 16th if GA is not lying or mistaken.
Surely the first thing the defence has to show is that KC passed Caylee on to someone soon after so that she is NOT the last person to see Caylee alive? The Nanny story is plainly nonsense. I just reread an early summary of the first steps in the investigation by YM. No rational jury member would accept the ZG story. What are the defence going to put forward as the situation when KC relinquished control of Caylee? Who was next in the "chain of custody" of live Caylee.
 
With all the simplistic knowledge I have gained by watching crime dramas over the years: The last person to see the victim alive is almost always the murderer. The evidence shows that to be KC on the evening of the 15th or into the 16th if GA is not lying or mistaken.
Surely the first thing the defence has to show is that KC passed Caylee on to someone soon after so that she is NOT the last person to see Caylee alive? The Nanny story is plainly nonsense. I just reread an early summary of the first steps in the investigation by YM. No rational jury member would accept the ZG story. What are the defence going to put forward as the situation when KC relinquished control of Caylee? Who was next in the "chain of custody"

Precisely. The prosecution need only establish and zero in on the fragment in time between KC's return to A home w Caylee, and shortly thereafter KC's sudden inexplicable and ominous appearance at Blockbuster w/TL--and no Caylee. She changed dropoff point from Sawgrass to Blanchard no doubt fearing surveillance could disprove this. But KC herself on the stand can never spin enough lies to confuse the jury re this fairytale custody chain. JMO
 
Precisely. The prosecution need only establish and zero in on the fragment in time between KC's return to A home w Caylee, and shortly thereafter KC's sudden inexplicable and ominous appearance at Blockbuster w/TL--and no Caylee. She changed dropoff point from Sawgrass to Blanchard no doubt fearing surveillance could disprove this. But KC herself on the stand can never spin enough lies to confuse the jury re this fairytale custody chain. JMO
I know it is the prosecution that has the burden of proof, but in this case the defence has to show some real person who had Caylee after KC, or go with the "Alien abduction" theory, or perhaps revert to the "it was an accident" line. In which case they would have a mountain of explaining (and proving) about all the bs since.

[Getting off topic - sorry] I'd move it to another thread if I knew how.
 
I know it is the prosecution that has the burden of proof, but in this case the defence has to show some real person who had Caylee after KC, or go with the "Alien abduction" theory, or perhaps revert to the "it was an accident" line. In which case they would have a mountain of explaining (and proving) about all the bs since.

Have wrangled all along as to how there can be any (viable) defense w/out copping to negligence/accident at best. This is the ONLY way ie an alien abduction would be more believable than her ZG mother-of-all-lies. It will mean also copping to abuse of a corpse, tampering w evidence, further hindering an investigation and yet more false statements--but it is IMO the only PRAYER KC has of beating the felony murder--or at the very least agg manslaughter and abuse charges--let's face it she's gonna have to give up ZG or spend (best case scenario) her life, several times over, in prison. JMO
 
Have wrangled all along as to how there can be any (viable) defense w/out copping to negligence/accident at best. This is the ONLY way ie an alien abduction would be more believable than her ZG mother-of-all-lies. It will mean also copping to abuse of a corpse, tampering w evidence, further hindering an investigation and yet more false statements--but it is IMO the only PRAYER KC has of beating the felony murder--or at the very least agg manslaughter and abuse charges--let's face it she's gonna have to give up ZG or spend (best case scenario) her life, several times over, in prison. JMO
Even if the dream team can pull off a bit of an OJ on the felony murder, she is still going to be locked up for a long time on a host of things. Has JB told her this? Has it sunk in?
Does KC imagine returning home to live a life of dissipation, sponging off an aging mom and pop? Perhaps she thinks she will get the prosecution witness list and program it into a new blackbury and facebook, as a ready made social list?

[Getting off topic - sorry] I'd move it to another thread if I knew how
 
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