Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #3

[Kimmer]

OK hear me out this is going to be a long post...This is my theory on what KC was thinking and planning since Caylee has now been found...We know that KC was consumed with getting her parents home and getting money without working for it...I think the computer searches for chloraform, neck breaking, and household weapons that was done in march was so that KC could plan her parents death...I also think the reason that KC left RM house in the middle of the night was to see if it would wake him up and once she realized he slept through her leaving the house..then she was going to plan on her and Caylee staying over on another night and she would go back to her parents alone and Chloraform them, then use a household weapon to kill them and stage a break in, go back to RM and she would have her alibi..Then with her parents deceased she would get there house and part of the insurance money, and her Caylee and Amy could live in the house and she would have some money to live off of...Then came the fight with CA about the money she has stolen from GP and I think we will find out at trial that CA kicked KC out of the house and with that she took Caylee with her...Now she has Caylee and no one to watch her and she is with TL and knows that with the partying that goes on he doesnt want a 2 year old around, so she thought well I have the Chloraform and I will see how long she will sleep if I knock her out and then I can just let her sleep in the car (TRUNK) and she had no idea how much to put on the rag and the first time she killed her..At that point she did not want to look at her face when she had to bag her so she applied duck tape around her head as to not have to look at that poor childs face...she then goes back to her parents at some point and gets the trash bags removes Caylee from the trunk and carries her to the backyard lays her down then wraps her body in something from the house, places the cross with her, and then wraps her in a garbage bag or two and then puts her back into the trunk...It may have been at this point that before putting Caylee back in the trunk that she attempted to clean the trunk up since if that is where Caylee died she would have expelled urine in the trunk, so after cleaning the trunk she placed Caylee in the bag back in the trunk....And then at some point dumped her body close to the house...Thinking that everyone would belive her BS and she would never get arrested and she would know that Caylee was close to home......I truly belive KC is a cold blooded killer weather killing her parents or her own child.

OK I took my stab at what I think the LE theory might be at trial...Tell me yours...

 

[ElizaAvalon]

Wow, Kimmer. That's a very good theory.

I have at times thought the google searches were to kill her parents. It does add up. The fact that she was telling Amy that she was going to get the house and that Amy could move in and then to have these google searches.

The only thing that doesn't quite fit this scenario is the google search for missing children.

It's very hard to believe that any parent would kill their child and I hope you are right that it was not intentional.

 

[essies]

Very possible theory! I'm still working on mine-but your's is good!:clap:

 

[Laneymae]

I still think Casey killed Caylee to spite her parents and to give herself freedom.

I think the "theories" have been covered in previous threads. http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75442

 

[jojomonkey]

OK hear me out this is going to be a long post...This is my theory on what KC was thinking and planning since Caylee has now been found...We know that KC was consumed with getting her parents home and getting money without working for it...I think the computer searches for chloraform, neck breaking, and household weapons that was done in march was so that KC could plan her parents death...

Respectfully snipped for length.


I think she may have been planning on killing Cindy and framing George, or possibly killing both like you said - then staging a break in.

I think she may have been using Caylee as a guinea pig as far as the cholorform goes - seeing how long it took her to pass out and how long it took her to come to again. You know, testing it out before using it on her parents, and Caylee died in the process. Then she came up with the whole kidnapping story because she knew if she called 911 and they discovered she had chloroformed her child it would mean jail for her no matter what.

It was definitely NOT an accident though, she intentionally mean to cause harm to her child -I think it just happened sooner than she planned. If it were an accident, like a drowning, I think she would have called 911. She may very well have been thinking about killing all three of them while she was conveniently out for the night, as you said. It wouldn't surprise me if they discovered that she had taken out life insurance on her parents withouth them knowing it.

Casey is completely diabolical, I have no doubts she had a far bigger plan in mind. Why else would she convince Amy that she was going to live with her - to the point of having her send things to the Goldspring address?

In my unfortunate experience with pathological liars - when they are in danger of being "found out" they become VERY scary and dangerous people who will do anything to keep that from happening.

I think Caylee was going to blow her cover - she was probably talking more and telling GA and CA a lot of things that Casey didn't want her to - and conveniently I bet GA and CA purposely have not relayed that info to LE to protect Casey.

 

[ma2patrick]

I don't think she was planning on killing her parents. If she intended to and have Caylee live in the house with her, then she would have been more distraught that her "experiment" went awry.

I also don't think you wrap duct tape around a child's head because you don't want to look at it. She would have just put a towel or a pillow case over her head.

IMO, I think she chloraformed her first, wrapped her head with the duct tape, in case she "came to", and then possible caused bodily injury.

I also think she wanted the body found sooner, because of the clues she was giving. She wanted CA to be hurt in the worst way.


IMO

 

[BlOnDe_GuRrL]

omg excellent theory!

i often wondered about the google searches for "neck breaking" and "household weapons" and their relevance to this case.

maybe the searches were done to see if there was any way she could make a broken neck look like an accident. also, i couldn't figure out why she would need household weapons... a 2 year old is so much smaller.. she wouldn't have to put up much of a fight. it almost looks like she was trying to figure out how to kill someone who was bigger than her. those searches actually made me think for a minute that the zanny story had a little truth in it (when i first started following the case on NG)

i was unaware of the insurance paper and moving in together convo's with amy.. so that right there makes me think that maybe those searches WERE intended to harm her parents in some way. wow....

as far as the whole thing with caylee... i don't know WHAT to think. there are too many holes in the story... and too many possibilities and theories.
all i know myself is that she had something to do with caylee's death... and she lied thru her teeth... i'm also finding it hard to believe that she acted alone because she is way too dumb to keep this covered up for this long. i mean look.. she couldn't even keep her story straight.. it wasn't very well rehearsed. she was stupid to believe that she could lie to LE and get away with it. like she didn't expect them to actually check anything out.

this case continues to eat at me since august... i will not be able to rest until i find out what happened to that little girl.. and until the responsible party/parties are sentenced to death.
my daughter is around the same age as caylee... a couple months younger.. so this really hits us hard. and since this whole thing came about... it made me appreciate my daughter more and to have more patience with her.
i take every chance i can get to hug, kiss and hold her.. and to tell her that i love her.

 

[GracieLu]

Here is my theory... Please don't yell at me - lol.

I believe the KC and CA had a fight on June 15th. I also believe that KC and Caylee were at home the entire evening and GA did see them leave the following day. I tend to believe GA about this because he was honest about the smell of decomp when interviewed by LE.

So, on June 16th GA says goodbye to KC and Caylee. KC drives around the area (as we know now that there is no real job) waiting for GA to leave for work. In the meantime, Caylee falls asleep in her car seat. I have a 4 year old and as I recall when she was 2 years old nap time was always mid afternoon. GA leaves for work. KC returns home. KC leaves Caylee in the car seat asleep and goes into the house. Hours pass as she is on the phone and text messaging. After realizing Caylee has been in the car for hours, KC runs out to get her and finds her unresponsive. She grabs Caylee and runs out to the backyard to resuscitate her. She realizes Caylee is dead. She panics and makes a series of calls to get help from her parents to no avail. She begins to realize that her parents will never forgive her as well as she will be charged by LE with neglect/murder. She places Caylee in the trunk of the car.

I really don't think she came up with a scenerio to tell her parents. In her stupid little mind I believe she intended to avoid them foreever. I also believe that at some point she planned to get out of town (wasn't she talking to someone in California about going there to tell him something?). The nanny abduction, IMO, didn't enter her mind until CA said "KC who took Caylee." What better way to tell your parrents their granddaughter is missing. When you think about it, Zanny loved Caylee, per KC, and she new her parents would be distraught but also new they would have some comfort in knowing that Caylee was being looked after by someone that loved her.

Chloroform - I believe she intended to use this as a tool to steal from people. Didn't Amy state that KC told her that she had been "sleepwalking" and hid money for her upcoming trip? I also believe Amy thought it was strange that she woke up in different clothing (shorts or PJ bottoms). Could she have chlorofomed Amy? Was she planning to do this to her parents?

Okay, please be nice :blowkiss:

 

[eve314]

Hi everyone, I'm still "newish" so I have an inordinate amount of questions. I asked before but there was no response, how did Casey get chloroform? Besides the websearch, what are mitigating evidence is there for her "purchase" or own "creation" of chloroform? Or if someone could kindly point me in the right direction to look...TIA!

 

[qaws]

When that body was placed in the bag and taped KC had not yet even decided where or even if to discard it. KC was focused on fixing an immediate problem which was a body leaking a mess in the trunk - without removing the body.

Remember that the mouth is a large orifice, and probably one that did not evacuate upon death. It is the most likely one to be leaking fluids soon after death. I maintain that if Casey saw something leaking from her mouth and leaving a basketball-sized stain on the trunk interior that a "KC response" would be to tape it up, then double-bag the body and tape that up.

I'm undecided on the bagging timeline - but I am convinced it either happened soon after death, or after about 36+ hours - or twice - the body would go through rigor mortis in that time frame, and it would not be easy to stuff it in a bag. If the bagging happened days after death, I think it was because she finally decided to deal with "the problem" and was also able to move the body into a bag.

If she bagged the body before rigor mortis, the bag may have broken as the body shifted. Another one may have been used later when possible.

FYI, rigor mortis starts about 3 hours after death, and progresses. In non-extreme temps, the general timeline is that it peaks between 12 and 36 hours, and at 36 hours it starts to release. Gone by 72 hours.

Heat speeds up the timeline, cold slows it down.

Not sure how this might not apply to small children, but there may be differences because of the smaller mass. Temp could play a bigger role.

---

Looked up more on child rigor, and my theory could be cr*p - "Many infant and child corpses will not exhibit perceptible rigor mortis. This decreased perceptible stiffness may be due to their smaller muscle mass."

 

[eve314]

As much as it makes little sense to us that this is no "accident" given KC could have called 911 and so on, after reading the interviews with her friends and family - I now think it could have been an ACCIDENT based on NEGLIGENCE. When Caylee died, KC panicked, attempted to call her parents but they did not respond - had they responded this tragedy would have not dragged on the way it has been for this amount of time. Those few moments when KC attempted to reach her parents, are also perhaps the only moment/point in time that KC depicted "emotion" for the tragic loss of her child.

KC would have probably "disconnected" herself from the event and her lifeless daughter shortly after the calls failed, realising, perhaps how it would be better to "fake Caylee's death" so her MOTHER would not crucify her. KC's ABSOLUTE fear of her mother is in part the cause of her failed attempt to fake her daughter's death. At some point, given her tendency to be self-absorbed, self-indulgent and selfish, her narcissistic impulse/s, combined with her real paranoia of her mother's wrath overwhelmed her so much so that she began to lose consciousness of the real loss of her child. In haste, KC wrapped her daughter's lifeless body and placed it in the trunk of her car and drove off, not really knowing what to do at that point in time.

She had to be rid of the decomposing body - and perhaps she no longer associated herself to the lifeless child [disassociation]. The concoction of a a Kidnap plot was her last resolve once again to deflect any blame so she would not incur her mother's wrath.

 

[Friday]

Let's assume that the following are all facts (2, 3, 4 are currently rumors):

1. There was an abnormally high reading of chloroform in the car trunk. I have not seen any reports that indicate how abnormal, just that it was.
2. Duct tape was wrapped around the head, not just across the mouth.
3. Caylee was wrapped in either a sheet or towel, or possibly a pillow case.
4. Caylee had no clothes on. KC allegedly even made a comment to one of Padilla's bounty hunters that "they haven't even found her clothes" when commenting on the searches.
5. KC appears to be a narcissist, is lazy, clingy, and not particularly self-sufficient (needs help when she runs out of gas).

Thinking out loud...

In light of #5, do I really believe KC would have made chloroform?
Searches notwithstanding - No. While it may not be rocket science, it does take time and energy. It is a whole lot easier to steal money from mom to buy Benadril.

Whether she used chloroform or some other sedative, does it make even KC-sense to wrap the head in duct tape to keep her quiet in case she wakes up?
Well...if this was the very first time she pulled such a stunt, maybe she would have thought it to be the right thing to do. I do not believe this could have been done more than once. Try wrapping your head in duct tape and then removing it. It is an unforgettable experience, particularly for a child. On top of that, this report suggests a child will die rather quickly in the trunk of a car due to hypothermia or asphyxiation. High probability this could have happened but once, so I think it unlikely to have happened at all.

Would KC have murdered Caylee by using chloroform to put her to sleep and then wrapping her head in duct tape to smother her?
Seems like a lot of complicated work for someone like KC. Assuming she had chloroform, why duct tape around the head and not just over nose and mouth? Why duct tape at all, and not a pillow over the face? Caylee is asleep, after all, and there will be no struggles. On top of that, KC may not care, but where is the evidence that she is physically cruel? I think this is a very important thing to consider in understanding what happened.

I think the most likely scenario that bridges the above is as follows:

• Caylee drowned accidentally in the swimming pool while KC was on the computer / phone. The chlorinated water in her lungs reacted with organic decompositional fluid to form higher-than-normal levels of chloroform while in the trunk.
• Caylee was naked or in a swimsuit she put on herself when she climbed into the pool. If true, I do not believe there would be a diaper or pull-up on the remains either.
• KC wrapped Caylee in a towel or available sheet - probably the latter since bedding was clearly siezed.
• Duct tape was added on 19th by KC, not to stage a kidnapping, but to stop decomp fluids from leaking into the trunk from the mouth.

MOO, and I am well aware of a personal need to keep convincing myself that is was an accident and KC is guilty of negligence, manslaughter, and descration of a corpse. Easier to sleep that way, and it is getting close to bed time.

Great sleuthing, as usual. Inspired. :clap:

May I suggest a slight alteration in your premise, not your conclusions:

I have always thought Caylee drowned in that pool, but I don't think it was an accident. I think Casey, in a fit of anger, grabbed Caylee and threw her into the pool, with or without dragging the ladder over to it. (Perhaps Caylee was whining that she wanted to go swimming or that she wanted to sleep at home that night with C and GA.)

I think Casey then stormed back into the house to finish the e-mail or whatever she'd been doing on the computer.
If she hadn't already used the ladder to shove Caylee into the pool, she needed to use the ladder to get a drowned Caylee out of it.

By June 16th, after Casey's fight the night before with her mother, I think Casey was "finished" with the burden of Caylee and motherhood.

IMHO, of course.

 

[nostoneunturned]

I may be mistaken but I thought there was mention of Caylee being at Ricardo's those nights. When did Tony leave?

 

[Pink Panther]

Great sleuthing, as usual. Inspired. :clap:

May I suggest a slight alteration in your premise, not your conclusions:

I have always thought Caylee drowned in that pool, but I don't think it was an accident. I think Casey, in a fit of anger, grabbed Caylee and threw her into the pool, with or without dragging the ladder over to it. (Perhaps Caylee was whining that she wanted to go swimming or that she wanted to sleep at home that night with C and GA.)

I think Casey then stormed back into the house to finish the e-mail or whatever she'd been doing on the computer.
If she hadn't already used the ladder to shove Caylee into the pool, she needed to use the ladder to get a drowned Caylee out of it.

Whenever we try to assess KC's state of mind and motivations the day Caylee died, it's really important to remember that KC and Caylee stopped sleeping at Hope Springs on June 9th.. On June 9th, Casey and Caylee both slept over at Ricardo's (I think it was R's.) However, beginning with the night of June 10th through June 14, Casey slept over at Tony's---but Caylee was nowhere in sight.

I don't know where Caylee was sleeping those 5 nights, but by June 16th, after Casey's fight the night before with her mother, I think Casey was "finished" with the burden of Caylee and motherhood.

IMHO, of course.

Friday - A while back, I believed that Caylee (and Casey) stopped sleeping over at the A's as of June 9th as well but I was informed that the pings did not support this theory. Do we now know this to be true??? If so, can you please elaborate as to how this was confirmed???

 

[DotsEyes]

Sorry, no one finds their child accidentally drowned in the family pool in the afternoon and goes to Blockbuster and the boyfriend that night, acting perfectly normal because they are afraid of what their mother will think. Some emotion has to show. Sadness, fear, anxiety, shock -something. But, KC was her happy-go-lucky self.

I do not not join the "it was an accident" gang.

 

[Boston]

Cindy has said on numerous occasions that Casey "knows who has Caylee" but she couldn't say who it was because she was worried that Caylee might be harmed.

Well now that we know that Caylee is deceased and has been for sometime it doesn't make any sense for Casey to keep it all a big secret.

Why doesn't Casey just ..."Spill the Beans" and tell LE who The kidnappers are so that they can be punished.

Casey must want Justice for Caylee..............Right?

 

[JaneInOz]

What if Casey gave Caylee up for adoption ? or just actually gave her away ?

What if the person that had Caylee did something to her ?

Just flinging it out there - i know its wild - but I keep thinking of the lawyer that said "Casey has a good reason for saying and doing what she does"

 

[impatientredhead]

What if Casey gave Caylee up for adoption ? or just actually gave her away ?

What if the person that had Caylee did something to her ?

Just flinging it out there - i know its wild - but I keep thinking of the lawyer that said "Casey has a good reason for saying and doing what she does"

Not wanting to die in a jail cell seems like a good reason for saying and doing what she does. Can't think of a single scenario other than CYA mode that would explain anything Casey is doing.

 

[nancy botwin]

What if Casey gave Caylee up for adoption ? or just actually gave her away ?

What if the person that had Caylee did something to her ?

Just flinging it out there - i know its wild - but I keep thinking of the lawyer that said "Casey has a good reason for saying and doing what she does"

She only cares about herself?
I don't think Caylee was adopted. I used to hope it was something like that, though. I think KioMarie is shady sounding-- I don't know if it's because she's just repeating Casey's lies so they sound like double lies, or if Kiomarie is just strange. The weird stuff about Casey Anthony vs. Casey W****iams, etc? Just odd.

ETAops I was just reading your post in the Kiomarie thread and blended it with this one-- in case you haven't read that part of Kiomarie's interview yet, she says that Casey wanted to "give" Caylee to Kiomarie bc Kiomarie can't have children, but Cindy wouldn't let her. I thought the adoption idea might have been inspired by the Kiomarie statement--sorry if I made no sense Coffee time!

 

[JWG]

Great sleuthing, as usual. Inspired. :clap:

May I suggest a slight alteration in your premise, not your conclusions:

I have always thought Caylee drowned in that pool, but I don't think it was an accident. I think Casey, in a fit of anger, grabbed Caylee and threw her into the pool, with or without dragging the ladder over to it. (Perhaps Caylee was whining that she wanted to go swimming or that she wanted to sleep at home that night with C and GA.)

I think Casey then stormed back into the house to finish the e-mail or whatever she'd been doing on the computer.
If she hadn't already used the ladder to shove Caylee into the pool, she needed to use the ladder to get a drowned Caylee out of it.

Whenever we try to assess KC's state of mind and motivations the day Caylee died, it's really important to remember that KC and Caylee stopped sleeping at Hope Springs on June 9th.. On June 9th, Casey and Caylee both slept over at Ricardo's (I think it was R's.) However, beginning with the night of June 10th through June 14, Casey slept over at Tony's---but Caylee was nowhere in sight.

I don't know where Caylee was sleeping those 5 nights, but by June 16th, after Casey's fight the night before with her mother, I think Casey was "finished" with the burden of Caylee and motherhood.

IMHO, of course.

From June 10th to June 14th it is possible that the two were not at the Anthony's over night but at Lee's instead. KC's cell phone does ping from the set of towers surrounding both Lee's and parents on those nights - and she is on the phone / texting with Tony during that time.

Bond ran a statistical analysis of the ping patterns pre- and post- June 10 (evenings only) and there was a statistically significant shift in the patterns in which the three towers pinged. While not proof she stayed at Lee's, it does support the theory.

Cell phone and forensics done on the home computer at the Anthony's support them spending the evening of June 15 there.

I have considered the idea that KC may have purposefully drowned Caylee in the pool. But I still cannot close on that based on the interviews with her friends. Not one person mentioned a single instance in which KC behaved as anything other than a loving mother when her daughter was around. But many did say she was a pathological liar - so they were more than willing to point out any negative traits they noticed. If anyone interviewed had seen anything that would point to KC ever harming Caylee, they would have brought it up - it was pretty clear they were ready to tar and feather her.

That is not proof KC did not do it on purpose, but I think it is supportive that she probably did not.

Furthermore, I would submit her cell phone and computer activity that day were normal for KC. No indication that she was still stewing after a big fight.

IMO, the two left with backpacks to go to the playground up at the elementary school, stayed not quite an hour because it was over 90F and humid, and came home to go swimming. They got home and put on swim suits, KC put the ladder up, and then went back inside to get something - maybe Caylee was not yet ready to go back outside...who knows.

KC calls Amy and speaks to her for 36 minutes and gets on the computer. Caylee wanders out to the back while mom is distracted, climbs up the ladder to splash her hands in the water, and falls in.