Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #3

[Intermezzo]

As much as it makes little sense to us that this is no "accident" given KC could have called 911 and so on, after reading the interviews with her friends and family - I now think it could have been an ACCIDENT based on NEGLIGENCE. When Caylee died, KC panicked, attempted to call her parents but they did not respond - had they responded this tragedy would have not dragged on the way it has been for this amount of time. Those few moments when KC attempted to reach her parents, are also perhaps the only moment/point in time that KC depicted "emotion" for the tragic loss of her child.

KC would have probably "disconnected" herself from the event and her lifeless daughter shortly after the calls failed, realising, perhaps how it would be better to "fake Caylee's death" so her MOTHER would not crucify her. KC's ABSOLUTE fear of her mother is in part the cause of her failed attempt to fake her daughter's death. At some point, given her tendency to be self-absorbed, self-indulgent and selfish, her narcissistic impulse/s, combined with her real paranoia of her mother's wrath overwhelmed her so much so that she began to lose consciousness of the real loss of her child. In haste, KC wrapped her daughter's lifeless body and placed it in the trunk of her car and drove off, not really knowing what to do at that point in time.

She had to be rid of the decomposing body - and perhaps she no longer associated herself to the lifeless child [disassociation]. The concoction of a a Kidnap plot was her last resolve once again to deflect any blame so she would not incur her mother's wrath.

Wonderful Post!!!
Do you think this Accident based on negligence had anything to do with the pool?
Since we learned the pool ladder was found by the pool, could Caylee have drowned(LP stated a swimsuit was found with the remains..his speculation) accidently while Casey was busy on her cell phone?
Then the flurry of calls, (still can't figure out why she would call all these people but not 911 and get paramedics over to the house) no one answered so she made a choice to cover it up

But then I get confused, does Chloroform come into play at all?

Speculation: Could Casey have chloroformed Caylee to put her to sleep, Caylee died, Casey panicked, put a swimsuit on her(sick), carried her to the pool, Casey went into the pool as well but forgot to remove the ladder(thus accounting for the ladder by the pool) to create an accidental drowing scenario but then changed her mind and created a new scenario about Caylee being kidnapped by the babysitter.

I am trying to grasp out the whole duct tape wrapped around the skull. So many scenarios come to mind...:furious:

 

[Intermezzo]

Let's assume that the following are all facts (2, 3, 4 are currently rumors):

1. There was an abnormally high reading of chloroform in the car trunk. I have not seen any reports that indicate how abnormal, just that it was.
2. Duct tape was wrapped around the head, not just across the mouth.
3. Caylee was wrapped in either a sheet or towel, or possibly a pillow case.
4. Caylee had no clothes on. KC allegedly even made a comment to one of Padilla's bounty hunters that "they haven't even found her clothes" when commenting on the searches.
5. KC appears to be a narcissist, is lazy, clingy, and not particularly self-sufficient (needs help when she runs out of gas).

Thinking out loud...

In light of #5, do I really believe KC would have made chloroform?
Searches notwithstanding - No. While it may not be rocket science, it does take time and energy. It is a whole lot easier to steal money from mom to buy Benadril.

Whether she used chloroform or some other sedative, does it make even KC-sense to wrap the head in duct tape to keep her quiet in case she wakes up?
Well...if this was the very first time she pulled such a stunt, maybe she would have thought it to be the right thing to do. I do not believe this could have been done more than once. Try wrapping your head in duct tape and then removing it. It is an unforgettable experience, particularly for a child. On top of that, this report suggests a child will die rather quickly in the trunk of a car due to hypothermia or asphyxiation. High probability this could have happened but once, so I think it unlikely to have happened at all.

Would KC have murdered Caylee by using chloroform to put her to sleep and then wrapping her head in duct tape to smother her?
Seems like a lot of complicated work for someone like KC. Assuming she had chloroform, why duct tape around the head and not just over nose and mouth? Why duct tape at all, and not a pillow over the face? Caylee is asleep, after all, and there will be no struggles. On top of that, KC may not care, but where is the evidence that she is physically cruel? I think this is a very important thing to consider in understanding what happened.

I think the most likely scenario that bridges the above is as follows:

• Caylee drowned accidentally in the swimming pool while KC was on the computer / phone. The chlorinated water in her lungs reacted with organic decompositional fluid to form higher-than-normal levels of chloroform while in the trunk.
• Caylee was naked or in a swimsuit she put on herself when she climbed into the pool. If true, I do not believe there would be a diaper or pull-up on the remains either.
• KC wrapped Caylee in a towel or available sheet - probably the latter since bedding was clearly siezed.
• Duct tape was added on 19th by KC, not to stage a kidnapping, but to stop decomp fluids from leaking into the trunk from the mouth.

MOO, and I am well aware of a personal need to keep convincing myself that is was an accident and KC is guilty of negligence, manslaughter, and descration of a corpse. Easier to sleep that way, and it is getting close to bed time.

JWG I am sorry I missed your post before I posted

I am trying to convince myself of that as well. Why??? Maybe I just can not grasp or fathom the cruelty a mother may have inflicted on her innocent child.


Still the use of duct tape confuses methe theory of duct taping the skull to trap the fluids is just too sickening to think of but it could very easily be the reason why.

 

[scarlett_hues]

Accidents, negligence & fits of anger don't go with the all of the Google searches for missing kids, clorophorm, weapons, neck break etc...Also she was setting up this whole Nanny-person for months previous. I've tried to believe that it was an accident but I think she planned it (albeit VERY poorly) and was lying in wait for the moment. Even if the searches were just a flirtation with the macabre, she had some sort of fantasies of violence.

Did we ever get a definitive answer on WHEN the searches were made on the name ZG?

NG seems to think it was before she went missing but I've heard it was after, likely making it CA who did the searches.

 

[icherish]

As much as it makes little sense to us that this is no "accident" given KC could have called 911 and so on, after reading the interviews with her friends and family - I now think it could have been an ACCIDENT based on NEGLIGENCE. When Caylee died, KC panicked, attempted to call her parents but they did not respond - had they responded this tragedy would have not dragged on the way it has been for this amount of time. Those few moments when KC attempted to reach her parents, are also perhaps the only moment/point in time that KC depicted "emotion" for the tragic loss of her child.

KC would have probably "disconnected" herself from the event and her lifeless daughter shortly after the calls failed, realising, perhaps how it would be better to "fake Caylee's death" so her MOTHER would not crucify her. KC's ABSOLUTE fear of her mother is in part the cause of her failed attempt to fake her daughter's death. At some point, given her tendency to be self-absorbed, self-indulgent and selfish, her narcissistic impulse/s, combined with her real paranoia of her mother's wrath overwhelmed her so much so that she began to lose consciousness of the real loss of her child. In haste, KC wrapped her daughter's lifeless body and placed it in the trunk of her car and drove off, not really knowing what to do at that point in time.

She had to be rid of the decomposing body - and perhaps she no longer associated herself to the lifeless child [disassociation]. The concoction of a a Kidnap plot was her last resolve once again to deflect any blame so she would not incur her mother's wrath.

I've run this theory through my mind also, Eve. Most people would call 911; but Casey is highly pathological behavior wise. When you consider that, it isn't so far fetched, imo.

 

[JaneInOz]

Was it definite about the Bathing suit ? is that an absolute certainty ?

 

[MomofBoys]

Besides the websearch, what are mitigating evidence is there for her "purchase" or own "creation" of chloroform?

That's a pretty big "besides." though. They found high concentrations of chloroform in the trunk. She researched how to make it and "household weapons."

It'd be like her researching "homemade bayonets" and then finding a bayonet made out of a fishing pole and kitchen knives in her car, you know?

I'd like to think this is an accident, but..

 

[kageykaren]

The A's did state that they had worked on the pool to get it ready for swimming. If a pool has set for a lengthy time the A's would have had to shock the pool with chlorine or bromide tabs. Would the extra amount of chemicals put in the pool cause a higher amount of chloroform excretion in the car?

 

[Intermezzo]

Was it definite about the Bathing suit ? is that an absolute certainty ?

No not certainty.
A statement on NG last night from Leonard P. Speculation.

 

[JWG]

There is logic in everything you say--as always. :blowkiss: However, I can only put minimal importance on the fact that none of KC's acquaintances ever saw her behave like anything other than a loving mother, because it's equally true none of them ever saw any indication that she was:

1) So completely devoid of all maternal feelings that she could shrug off her daughter's death within hours and gaily continue her social exploits;

2) that she was ghoulishly capable of driving around town with the rotting corpse of her little girl in the trunk;

3) that she regarded her dead daughter as nothing more than a piece of garbage to be taped into a bag and thrown away.

We also know from Amy H, and our own observations, that KC is easily angered and that she is a consummate actress. Her whole life is one long, carefully calculated performance.

What do you think re the above?

I can understand where you are coming from. But consider how cruel, depraved, and sadistic throwing a live toddler into a swimming pool to drown would be. Her friends never witnessed anything that remotely approached meanness. But they did report her lying.

I really think that when the accident occurred, there was emotional trauma and fear of CA's reaction, and the combination caused her to "blow a fuse" and become emotionally detached.

Now that I think of it, KC may be in her own phase of denial - the first stage of grief. Not condoning anything, just observing.

 

[butwhatif?]

I have an accident theory. Mostly because I'd like to believe caylees death was an accident. (even though I do believe that KC thought about how much better her life would be without a child)
This theory is not something I am convinced of, its just a possible scenario that been running through my mind.

That Tv in KC's room gave me chills the minute I saw it, but I dismissed it back then.

We know that caylee used to wake up early and KC would put on a dvd for her to watch while kc dozed for a while longer.
The tv could have fallen on top of her. There are so many children killed each yr by tvs and other furniture falling on them. It is the 3rd highest cause of death in children.

Most parents rush their child to the hospital, but after the fight with her folks the night before, and all the trouble she was already in, she would have gone into cover-up mode.
The TV itself may not be broken if caylee cushioned its fall.

If the rumors are true that carpet, and bedding were cut up in KC's room in the recent SW then this scenario is possible. I wonder if the carpet taken was in the same area as the tv?
Did she place caylee in/on the bed, and thats why there was blood on the headboard that CA claimed was old blood?

Like I said, maybe i just want to believe it was an accident because i cant fathom the idea of a mother killing her own child deliberately.(although I know it does happen that way.)

Anyway, I urge any parent of young children to look into getting the straps available to secure a tv in place, to prevent injuries to little ones.
I know my girls are forever standing right in front of the tv, and trying to kiss and cuddle their favourite characters.
And I'm always telling them to step back in fear that it might topple over on them.
I'm buying some of those straps TODAY!

Heres the pic of the tv in caseys room which does not look secured and is on a very narrow base for its size and weight, imo:

And this is a link to the site where you can get the tv straps and other safety devices.
http://www.mypreciouskid.com/tv-quake-strap.html

 

[JaneInOz]

Wonderful Post!!!
Do you think this Accident based on negligence had anything to do with the pool?
Since we learned the pool ladder was found by the pool, could Caylee have drowned(LP stated a swimsuit was found with the remains..his speculation) accidently while Casey was busy on her cell phone?
Then the flurry of calls, (still can't figure out why she would call all these people but not 911 and get paramedics over to the house) no one answered so she made a choice to cover it up

But then I get confused, does Chloroform come into play at all?

Speculation: Could Casey have chloroformed Caylee to put her to sleep, Caylee died, Casey panicked, put a swimsuit on her(sick), carried her to the pool, Casey went into the pool as well but forgot to remove the ladder(thus accounting for the ladder by the pool) to create an accidental drowing scenario but then changed her mind and created a new scenario about Caylee being kidnapped by the babysitter.

I am trying to grasp out the whole duct tape wrapped around the skull. So many scenarios come to mind...:furious:

What if she chloroformed her , and later on they went for a swim and due to the effects of the chloroform she had problems and drowned.
Then as per the other poster she panicked not wanting to face the wrath of her mother..

OR What if she NEVER chloroformed her , and because she drowned and had chemicals in her when she died and was in the trunk the trunk smelt of chloroform because that is what happens when a body decomposes - it makes chlorophorm - and the chlorine from the pool enhanced that !!!!!

 

[JWG]

I have an accident theory. Mostly because I'd like to believe caylees death was an accident. (even though I do believe that KC thought about how much better her life would be without a child)
This theory is not something I am convinced of, its just a possible scenario that been running through my mind.

That Tv in KC's room gave me chills the minute I saw it, but I dismissed it back then.

We know that caylee used to wake up early and KC would put on a dvd for her to watch while kc dozed for a while longer.
The tv could have fallen on top of her. There are so many children killed each yr by tvs and other furniture falling on them. It is the 3rd highest cause of death in children.

Very, very good point. I never saw this image, but it reminds me of when my now 24-year old son was 2.

We had a 19-inch color TV on a small wood cabinet. The TV probably weighed 90 lbs. He got behind the TV and knocked it and the cabinet over. The TV sustained a crack in the case but was otherwise undamaged. At the time I was mortified that he could have been on the other side of it.

We don't know what was removed from the Anthony's, but there certainly could have been a home accident as you describe.

 

[Friday]

I can understand where you are coming from. But consider how cruel, depraved, and sadistic throwing a live toddler into a swimming pool to drown would be. Her friends never witnessed anything that remotely approached meanness. But they did report her lying.

I really think that when the accident occurred, there was emotional trauma and fear of CA's reaction, and the combination caused her to "blow a fuse" and become emotionally detached.

Now that I think of it, KC may be in her own phase of denial - the first stage of grief. Not condoning anything, just observing.

I hope you're right, I really do. I can't imagine any mother of a drowned child not weeping and clutching her baby to her and calling an ambulance.

But above all, I guess I just can't get past the ghoulishness of her behavior after her baby's death.

 

[kline]

If it was an accident, why would she not tell the truth now, facing a possible death sentence? Also, how do you explain the computer searches in March (three months prior to the "accident" - and the use of duct tape? Finally, if an accident, how do you explain the ability to party (she was "annoyingly giddy" per Amy H after Caylee went missing <anticipating Tony's return from NY,> get a "beautiful life" tattoo, and go on a shopping spree with her "friend's" money?:waitasec:

You know you could just about forget anything else pointing to her premeditated guilt and keep that tattoo.
What parent on this planet(or any other one) with a missing child would visit a tat parlor and have a 'beautiful life' tattoo applied?
How could anyone harbor any doubt,reasonable or otherwise?
There is one and only one explanation.

 

[JWG]

Following today's events it is apparent my hope that this was an accident is gone. We may never know how the little girl died, but Dr. G. is convinced that whatever the cause it was murder. She has infinitely more information at her disposal than I do. It is now up to the prosecution to decide the level of intent, premeditation, and motivation behind the murder.

I am saddened to be reminded that there ARE monsters walking this planet.

 

[JaneInOz]

Now its confirmed that the little remains found are those of Caylees what do you believe happend ?

I think it was a accident, and then a total coverup. I do not believe Casey killed Caylee premeditated.

I don't know what sort of a accident, if its true she was found with a bathing costume, then perhaps she did drown, perhaps the chloroform in the trunk was because as the body decomposed the chemicals mixed and made the natural chloroform that is produced by death far more intense.

I believe that Casey was scared of what would happen to her, maybe she went a bit nutso after it happened as well.

I don't believe it was premeditated murder. Perhaps that should be I cant believe it was....

I think she put things with her little body, like the book and photos like a mother would do when burying their child. I know when we had my Mum cremated I wrote a letter and put photos in the casket with her of us *cry*

So Accident ? or premeditated ?

 

[cinny2227]

I totally agree with you Janeinoz about it being an accident. I have believed this from the very begining. I also do not believe that Cindy, George, or Lee where involved in anyway and do not believe they helped her cover it up. The only thing that has had me stumped is the chloroform?? If it can occur naturally with death then that may explain it.

I was however thinking about the duct tape that was found wrapped around her mouth and began to wonder if, Casey was maybe trying to stage some fake Kidnapping pictures and maybe was going to try and get some money out of her mom and dad and something went wrong with her plan.......

 

[JaneInOz]

I totally agree with you Janeinoz about it being an accident. I have believed this from the very begining. I also do not believe that Cindy, George, or Lee where involved in anyway and do not believe they helped her cover it up. The only thing that has had me stumped is the chloroform?? If it can occur naturally with death then that may explain it.

I was however thinking about the duct tape that was found wrapped around her mouth and began to wonder if, Casey was maybe trying to stage some fake Kidnapping pictures and maybe was going to try and get some money out of her mom and dad and something went wrong with her plan.......

Well in regards to the duct tape - is that a definite ? or rumour ?
If definite then it could be this whole fake kidnapping thing, which is what I meant by going nutso.

George Said that the photos of her dancing etc were not from After Caylee went missing but from before

I wonder what George said to the GrandJury to get her indited ? I wonder how Casey feels knowing that helped indite her?

I just can NOT believe that after looking at all those photos of Casey and Caylee that she murdered her. I just can not believe it.

I swayed for a while to thinking yes maybe it was , but I'm sorry I just don't believe it and should have stuck to my guns.

Not going to make me popular with the masses that think she should be fried but I cant help that...

I do think she is stupid though ! I think she panicked and went all CSI and thought she could get away with not having any blame. I do BLAME her for that because little Caylee deserved BETTER Than that. She should have put her hand up and said I'm sorry I caused this accident...(leaving Caylee alone) etc...


But then again the ME has ruled it as a Homicide, so maybe I should see a shrink !

sigh this case is so overwhelming

 

[Irish_Eyes]

I had considered the accident theory...it made sense considering how much time KC spent on cell phone, etc., and how curious a 2yo can be...
Yes if it was an accident she could have panicked...
BUT.....at some point the loving mother can't just leave her baby in a garbage bag by the side of the road...it would eat you up inside....at some point a loving daughter can't look at her parents from her prison cell and see the obvious pain and worry in their faces week in and week out and not put their misery to an end.....at some point, when one is charged with FIRST DEGREE MURDER, a rational invidual might realize, hey, I should just come clean and tell the truth and yes, I will probably be charged with abuse of a corpse and filing a false police report, but in light of the situation that I've already lost the most important thing in the universe, hopefully the judge will show me some compassion, and with credit for time served, I could still be out of prison before age 30.

We often think of profiling in terms of criminal profiling, but in fact, there are patterns to the ways all of us behave. Although we all live in far flung places here on WS, we've all sadly heard stories on the local news about a parent whose child dies in a household accident. And yes, often times the child is not being supervised at the time, that's why they are called accidents! In all these cases, regardless of income, education level, race, nationality, etc., they called 911.

I've heard of two cases with local ties where the parents/guardians did not report the child missing for a lengthy period of time. One was Rilya Wilson, whose guardian claimed that Florida DCS took the child away, which was later confirmed NOT to be true. (Rilya's biomom here in Ohio had lost custody and was not even aware she was missing.) The other case, was Riley Ann Sawyers, whose mother and stepfather were later implicated in her death (Her grandparents lived here in Ohio and the mother had told them some nutty stories about her whereabouts). I'd say KC's actions more closely resemble the perps in these cases, IMHO.

 

[Noddy]

Some of the icons recovered from KC's computer in the cache of Apr 25 to 28 are disturbing. I think she finally blew. Hope this works.
http://photobucket.com/Noddy_2008