Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #3

[cakegirl0905]

After listening to Dr. G's comments, again, and again...I noticed she carefully worded the no ante mortem trauma. She never mentioned peri or post mortem trauma. Peri mortem trauma occurs at or around the time of death. The difference in the peri and ante is that ante mortem trauma will show signs of healing and peri mortem trauma doesn't show signs of healing---thus happening at or around the time of death.

All that to say, that I wouldn't be shocked to learn that there is some peri mortem trauma present---thus the reason for Dr. G's careful and concise wording. Peri mortem trauma would certainly help identify homicide vs accidental death.

Just throwing it out there....

I only saw it once, this afternoon, but I thought she was very careful about the state of the skeleton. About it being disarticulated, but then stopping, and saying she would leave it at that. Made me go Hmmmmm.....

 

[bookworm474]

As much as it makes little sense to us that this is no "accident" given KC could have called 911 and so on, after reading the interviews with her friends and family - I now think it could have been an ACCIDENT based on NEGLIGENCE. When Caylee died, KC panicked, attempted to call her parents but they did not respond - had they responded this tragedy would have not dragged on the way it has been for this amount of time. Those few moments when KC attempted to reach her parents, are also perhaps the only moment/point in time that KC depicted "emotion" for the tragic loss of her child.

KC would have probably "disconnected" herself from the event and her lifeless daughter shortly after the calls failed, realising, perhaps how it would be better to "fake Caylee's death" so her MOTHER would not crucify her. KC's ABSOLUTE fear of her mother is in part the cause of her failed attempt to fake her daughter's death. At some point, given her tendency to be self-absorbed, self-indulgent and selfish, her narcissistic impulse/s, combined with her real paranoia of her mother's wrath overwhelmed her so much so that she began to lose consciousness of the real loss of her child. In haste, KC wrapped her daughter's lifeless body and placed it in the trunk of her car and drove off, not really knowing what to do at that point in time.

She had to be rid of the decomposing body - and perhaps she no longer associated herself to the lifeless child [disassociation]. The concoction of a a Kidnap plot was her last resolve once again to deflect any blame so she would not incur her mother's wrath.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

This analysis makes a lot of sense.

She made a statement to the detectives at Universal that she didn't know what to do. It hit me as a state of mind comment and with her fears and stubborn pride failed to get help. Then again, what were her beliefs?, all that her mother told her when she was angry and disappointed in her behavior. Why did Casey start lying. Does she have some condition where she really gets fixated on feeling that life is not real and bought into the unreality out there in the market place?

I just don't understand why Casey is so dumb with her lies. We don't know all of them, but she is compulsive enough about them that she has been programmed for image. I know that high schools can be tough on girls with the clicks and all, but there are issues with whole families having narcissistic patterns which they are not aware.

Setting up the nanny over time, that is interesting. I have to wonder about how that evolved, looking important and rich to her friends. But also, I have to wonder about the motive for the kidnapping and like some have indicated at this forum, she wanted sympathy and the status of some kind of importance. That again is pretty dumb, but not for an very insecure, insincere, fakey life style and world view. She seems to have had a need to stand out in a crowd and didn't find that in a real sense of achievement.

She didn't have much self control and the time spent doing substanceless communication with relationships that were at least superficial and downright boring or over stimulating. Wasn't there anyone in her environment challenging her toward her artistic abilities. Not keeping a job is such a red flag unless she got into a relationship with the father of Caylee there and that ended up being an experience of rejection and eventual distress, conflict, or confusion,real regret. Why spend months pretending?

It would be nice if there were a way to see how she experienced all this. I wonder if her alienation in life wasn't the cultural disappointments over time that allowed her to believe that what she found out there was all there was.

I can't just write her off as a sociopath and hate her at all. If I tried to talk to her I might not get anywhere, but........there are so many hidden disabilities that judgmental persons are keen to either be ignorant of or just overlook. Many people fail to find themselves and it is a tragedy that a soul has to fail this bad and suffer for eternity and crush part of herself that she will never get back in this life.

For me it is not just about Caylee. She was a part of Casey.

What was Casey's experience all her life?

 

[piratemom]

I posted an earlier thread (that didn't get much action )

According to the defense's documents it says if Casey did do this it was an "unwitting overdose of a sedative"

This practically gives it all away!

This is what I believed happened to this child. Simple as that. She couldnt call 911 and say help me I gave my daughter too much chloroform, xanax. So she made that flurry of calls and didnt reach anyone or checked to see nobody was on there way home and put the body in the trunk.

 

[piratemom]

I also want to say that after this occured she had to have planned this whole zanny bit. I do think zanny was a name she concocted for an imaginary sitter either due to a book zannie the nanny and for xanax putting caylee out some nights. There was NO babysitter. She said this to appear rich/important. Her icons, actions and behaviors show how narcisisstic she is. She will stick with this dumb story because she wont cop to lying, looking bad in front of her parents, in turn she wants to be the victim.
I am 100% sure after she got out on bond the first time is when the GP came to terms with what really happened.
Also she put thought into framing the nonexistent nanny because she lied and said she talked to Caylee and she was reading her books etc and now it comes out there was a book next to the body! I bet CA showed KC the video of Caylee the night of 6/15 reading at the nursing home.

 

[bessie]

I posted an earlier thread (that didn't get much action )

According to the defense's documents it says if Casey did do this it was an "unwitting overdose of a sedative"

This practically gives it all away!

This is what I believed happened to this child. Simple as that. She couldnt call 911 and say help me I gave my daughter too much chloroform, xanax. So she made that flurry of calls and didnt reach anyone or checked to see nobody was on there way home and put the body in the trunk.

And said, "Oh fiddle-dee-dee. I'll think about that tomorrow."

Yeah, that's about par for the course.:furious:

 

[Irish_Eyes]

Okay, here's my theory. Shoot it full of holes, if you can....I've been on the ping maps all night (hubby's watching b-ball anyway) and I think maybe I'm on to something...

Now that we know where Caylee has been for all this time, looking at the maps, KC had very limited opportunities to place her there.

The pattern of KC's behavior that first week (June 16-20) is pretty consistent, except for 6/16 where KC is at Anthony home most of day, then leaves right before CA would be getting home. I strongly feel this is DOD.
Afterward, she is only at A home according to pings in the window of roughly between 2-4 p.m. each day, which is probably after George leaves for work and before Cindy gets home. And she's doing that pretty much every day. This is also the time period where the car is backed in to the garage 3x per neighbor.

June 21 & 22 pattern changes - not at A's and that's easy to explain - since it is a weekend, Cindy is probably home.

June 23 she is there again, but this time it appears she is there to get the gas cans which GA discovers missing on the 24. I think she is also there then on the 24 when she and GA argue over gas cans. 25 and 26 she lays low...definite change of behavior here...not near A's at all, barely goes anywhere really. At A's again on Fusion Friday, when she makes a call to JC Penney, and some have surmised she goes there to take CA Penney's card, which I think is quite possible. After that, she's not there again at all, really that we can see from the pings. Possibly because 28/29 are weekends and then Cindy is off all next week on vacation. Anyway, car is at Amscot by 27th, so the trunk is empty by then, anyway.

My theory is DOD on 16, borrows shovel on 17 or 18, figures she will bury her, but can't find a suitable place that will avoid detection. Gives up that idea and leaves Caylee at Suburban Dr. on 19. Frantic calling on 19 to make sure GA and CA are not home. On 20, no calls like that...less worried about it IMHO...probably on 20 last day backed in to garage is because she was trying to clean the car.

This timeline also gels with body farm...

Also, knowing what we know now, on July 2 there is an odd ping. She is at RM/AH's but leaves at 4 in the morning and pings pretty close to A's for about 45 minutes, but not same way she pings when she is at A's....she's near Caylee! Not sure what that's all about??

Could this be a good working theory?? If not why??

 

[ma2patrick]

I never thought about her calling her parents to make sure they weren't home. That's an excellent theory, and has answered many questions for me.

Hmmmmm.

 

[Pink Panther]

If in fact it is the book in the photograph...Does anyone have any ideas as to why KC would place the book with Caylee??? Why not the doll?

 

[ibyoungr]

Examining the evidence that was released to date, I could not conclude premeditated murder. I concluded an accidental death with an incredibly callous cover-up.

Is it possible for an accidental death - such as an unattended child drowning in a swimming pool - to be considered a homicide by the medical examiner? If so, why would the ME not simply list accidental death?

All that said, the ME said murder and she has far more information than I, so I have to believe it was murder and not an accident. This despite me not seeing it.

I really respect your posts on here. By far and above, your posts have seemed to be "thought out." I really like your analysis of the computer usage on the June the 16th and in March regarding Casey's computer search going from a Myspace page to a google search.
From those points several scenarios could have happened:
1. on the 16th she got busy on the net..(as shown in the documentation and fine work by JWG analysis) Caylee got naked and jumped in the pool and drowned(ladder out of place and dogs hit here).... she panicked and could not bear CA's wrath and figured she would lie her way out (fight with Cindy as reported to LE and noted love/hate relationship) and put her in the backyard till the 17th and moved her to the trunk till the 18th(decomposition evidence) or (based upon on any possible toxicology reports)

2. Caylee found mommy's chloroform used for sex and partying(evidence she was dating Ric about the time he posted on myspace... maybe they were kinky) Caylee drank some and spilled it causing Casey to dispose of the clothing and Caylee after she had her in the trunk till the 18th and last but not least..

3. Caylee was whining for attention..Casey lost it as she did not want to be interrupted while being on the net.. Caylee cried for Grandma and Casey couldn't bear the next 16 years of being tied down(short temper evidenced by the "huge waste and spiteful comments" and suffocated her (pillow as evidence that LE recently picked up) or chloroform(dependent upon toxicology reports) and suffocation.

I do not believe these scenarios happened:
xanax or cholorform as a babysitter... xanax is addictive and Cindy would have noticed something going on with Caylee's behavior if this was going on a regular basis and on June 15th.. that definitely does not appear to be a kiddo that has recently been given any powerful drugs on a regular basis. No evidence supporting this.. no reciepts no prescription.. just a couple of comments about using it to party with. LE appeared to remove a pillow from the home.. no LE documentation or line of questioning regarding Xanex.

cholorform - I think Caylee would not have been a healthy little girl that we see in the day before video if Casey was knocking her out on a regular basis so she could party.

I do not think she died in a hot car... Casey spent the night of the 15th with her parents per the pings and Caylee was gone by the time she went to Tone's on the afternoon of the 16th. No evidence currently points to he being in a parking lot somewhere(where did she go to the driveway?).

The more I think about it....
Casey flat did not want to be a parent for the next 16 years.. she did not want to be a failure and have her mother be right... she wanted to party and one day she just lost it when Caylee needed way to much
attention... she suffocated her... upon realizing what she did.. panicked tried to fake a drowning... when that didn't work.. she hid Caylee in the backyard.. came back on the 17th.. put her in the trunk.. drove around till the 18th with Caylee in the trunk.. came back borrowed a shovel.. took her to her spot used the shovel to try and throw some dirt over the bag and then thought up the kidnapping story based upon her friend Kiomarie and her connection to ZFG. I am not so sure she was not premeditating her mother and father's deaths and that is one reason they have enabled her.. (evidence George bought a gun when she was let out on bail and her odd comments about having some extra money to Tone and moving into the house) I think once she is locked up for good they will sell her down the river.

 

[ibyoungr]

Okay, here's my theory. Shoot it full of holes, if you can....I've been on the ping maps all night (hubby's watching b-ball anyway) and I think maybe I'm on to something...

Now that we know where Caylee has been for all this time, looking at the maps, KC had very limited opportunities to place her there.

The pattern of KC's behavior that first week (June 16-20) is pretty consistent, except for 6/16 where KC is at Anthony home most of day, then leaves right before CA would be getting home. I strongly feel this is DOD.
Afterward, she is only at A home according to pings in the window of roughly between 2-4 p.m. each day, which is probably after George leaves for work and before Cindy gets home. And she's doing that pretty much every day. This is also the time period where the car is backed in to the garage 3x per neighbor.

June 21 & 22 pattern changes - not at A's and that's easy to explain - since it is a weekend, Cindy is probably home.

June 23 she is there again, but this time it appears she is there to get the gas cans which GA discovers missing on the 24. I think she is also there then on the 24 when she and GA argue over gas cans. 25 and 26 she lays low...definite change of behavior here...not near A's at all, barely goes anywhere really. At A's again on Fusion Friday, when she makes a call to JC Penney, and some have surmised she goes there to take CA Penney's card, which I think is quite possible. After that, she's not there again at all, really that we can see from the pings. Possibly because 28/29 are weekends and then Cindy is off all next week on vacation. Anyway, car is at Amscot by 27th, so the trunk is empty by then, anyway.

My theory is DOD on 16, borrows shovel on 17 or 18, figures she will bury her, but can't find a suitable place that will avoid detection. Gives up that idea and leaves Caylee at Suburban Dr. on 19. Frantic calling on 19 to make sure GA and CA are not home. On 20, no calls like that...less worried about it IMHO...probably on 20 last day backed in to garage is because she was trying to clean the car.

This timeline also gels with body farm...

Also, knowing what we know now, on July 2 there is an odd ping. She is at RM/AH's but leaves at 4 in the morning and pings pretty close to A's for about 45 minutes, but not same way she pings when she is at A's....she's near Caylee! Not sure what that's all about??

Could this be a good working theory?? If not why??

Yes, tie that in with what JWG shows with computer usage on the 16th and a possible suffocation.... I think I see the best theory coming to light!!

 

[nostoneunturned]

The tape was used after Caylee went to sleep. George and Cindy were asleep and she carried Caylee to the car and placed her in the trunk, she was seen on camera pacing early on the 16, talking to Toni.
Cindy wrote about Caylee being missing on July 3 Lee, called Casey trying to find her.She told her friends after the call that she needed to leave the party. This was on July 3 also.
the A's knew she was dodging them,but yet they still wait 13 days, only reacting when the car got towed. Cindy and George both feel guilty for believing and trusting Casey with Caylee. I believe that is why, they are so easy to throw everyone under the bus and go along with Casey's lies because if "someone else" did it. then it no longer makes them accountable for their actions of neglecting Caylee and their continual enabling of Casey.
The night, before Caylee was found ,I along with many of you, lit a candle for her,hoping she would be found before Christmas. The next day she was found. I would like to suggest we do the same in the hopes of having all the Anthony's tell the truth for Caylee's sake.
Tomorrow at 8:00 sounds good to me.

 

[piratemom]

She probably put the book to try and frame the make believe babysitter, because she said the last time she talked to caylee she was fine and reading books w/ZG. She didnt leave the doll b/c she doesnt care.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

OMG, regarding my earlier post on my what happened theory...someone on another thread just made me think of something....

Is this possible/likely?

Some are saying maybe there were two bags, a black one and a gray one based on the differing descriptions. Earlier, I had posted about KC's weird 4am ping on July 2 near the body site.

What if KC couldn't take it anymore? What if she actually wanted Caylee found? What if she took clothes bag and dumped it closer to side of road, hoping it would aid in someone finding Caylee? Then she wouldn't be waking up in night sweats anymore, and she could just say "What? How can that be? I thought she was with the nanny?" It would have looked a lot less suspicious (at least initially in KC POV) that she hadn't reported her missing since at this point no one suspects anything amiss, and she's already stated to many people that the child was with the nanny. Of course eventually, GA and CA still get the notice from the tow company about the smelly car, and eventually her story unravels, but I don't think KC thought of that. Like her icons say she thought pretty girls who lie well could get away with anything.

 

[burningsky22]

My theory:

End of May beginning of June, CA & KC get into a fight, CA tells KC to leave but she can't take Caylee.

Monday, June 9 KC moves out. GP at works so easiest way to leave.

Monday June 9-Saturday June 14 they continue to argue via phone or possibly at house. CA threatens and possibly tries to take Caylee away.

Sunday June 15-Nursing home. They go back to the GP house, agruements contine and probably get really heated at this point. Not sure if KC is there or waiting at the house, they stay the night swim etc, remove the pool ladder and close the pool fence.

Monday June 16-More agrueing, KC kills Caylee, how not quite sure. She could have let Caylee go for a swim, purposely removes the lader and Caylee drowns. Or, if duct tape truely found over Cayee's mouth she duct tapes and holds her down. After killing she buries her in the sandbox (dogs hit in both places) Makes the flurry of phone calls to friends and parents.

Tuesday June 17-goes to Sawgrass, looking for an apt?, sees ZG paperwork or maybe sign in sheet like they have at open houses from previous visit. Even if she wasn't see or recognized she could have been there and they were on the phone in another room, in the bathroom whatever, CA leaves w/o anyone seeing her. Or she could know someone there that we don't know about yet. CA logs onto a computer leaves message for Amy "Cheer up me lady! I love you and can't wait to finally get you moved in." GP get home notice pool gate and ladder are out of place.

Wednsday June 18- Borrows the shovel to unbury Caylee, has the car backed in to put her in the trunk. Bags her up and dumps her in the woods.

June 20 - June 24 out having fun, doging her parents.

June 24 - GA reports gas cans stolen, knowing that it was KC. Has the argument about the gas cans with GA and he finds cans. Could have been using to try and mask the smell.

(Gets tattoo sometime in June "Bella Vida" a nice after thought)

Friday June 27 leaves car. Could have been phone conversations about CA reporting car stolen or demanding it back. So she ditches it.

Monday June 30 car towed.

July 3 CA makes her post about Caylee being gone tired of dealing with KC. Distraught because she hasn't seen or talked to Caylee since June 15 or 16.

July 4 -6 - more partying.

July 6- 15 ???

July 15- GP get the regisered letter about the car, freak out, and call KC friends. Get in touch with Amy. Cindy frantic at this point has seen or talked to KC or Caylee in days/month gets Amy to take her to KC. Amy probably was quite excited to take her to KC at this point. CA goes into TL apt forces KC out has conversations about Caylees whereabouts, KC lies, lies, lies. Cindy gets mad tries to flush it out of KC by calling the police. CA tries to take her to station but closed since it is night, calls police gets wrong precent, gets transfered to another. During transfer you can hear CA threaten to get court order to get Caylee. I am guessing they are transferred several times and CA decides to go home, on the way KC makes up stories. CA calls police from home now adding a possible missing chlild. KC makes up the ZG story, CA calls police once more freaking out.

Sorry for typos, misspellings etc.

July 7-leaves her cryptic blog:
"On the worst of worst days, remember the words spoken
Trust no one, only yourself.
With great power, comes great consequence.
What is given can be taken away.
Everyone Lies.
Everyone Dies."


http://investigation.discovery.com/...overage/timeline/caylee_anthony_timeline.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,401921,00.html

 

[gitana1]

My theory:

End of May beginning of June, CA & KC get into a fight, CA tells KC to leave but she can't take Caylee.

Monday, June 9 KC moves out. GP at works so easiest way to leave.

Monday June 9-Saturday June 14 they continue to argue via phone or possibly at house. CA threatens and possibly tries to take Caylee away.

Sunday June 15-Nursing home. They go back to the GP house, agruements contine and probably get really heated at this point. Not sure if KC is there or waiting at the house, they stay the night swim etc, remove the pool ladder and close the pool fence.

Monday June 16-More agrueing, KC kills Caylee, how not quite sure. She could have let Caylee go for a swim, purposely removes the lader and Caylee drowns. Or, if duct tape truely found over Cayee's mouth she duct tapes and holds her down. After killing she buries her in the sandbox (dogs hit in both places) Makes the flurry of phone calls to friends and parents.

Tuesday June 17-goes to Sawgrass, looking for an apt?, sees ZG paperwork or maybe sign in sheet like they have at open houses from previous visit. Even if she wasn't see or recognized she could have been there and they were on the phone in another room, in the bathroom whatever, CA leaves w/o anyone seeing her. Or she could know someone there that we don't know about yet. CA logs onto a computer leaves message for Amy "Cheer up me lady! I love you and can't wait to finally get you moved in." GP get home notice pool gate and ladder are out of place.

Wednsday June 18- Borrows the shovel to unbury Caylee, has the car backed in to put her in the trunk. Bags her up and dumps her in the woods.

June 20 - June 24 out having fun, doging her parents.

June 24 - GA reports gas cans stolen, knowing that it was KC. Has the argument about the gas cans with GA and he finds cans. Could have been using to try and mask the smell.

(Gets tattoo sometime in June "Bella Vida" a nice after thought)

Friday June 27 leaves car. Could have been phone conversations about CA reporting car stolen or demanding it back. So she ditches it.

Monday June 30 car towed.

July 3 CA makes her post about Caylee being gone tired of dealing with KC. Distraught because she hasn't seen or talked to Caylee since June 15 or 16.

July 4 -6 - more partying.

July 6- 15 ???

July 15- GP get the regisered letter about the car, freak out, and call KC friends. Get in touch with Amy. Cindy frantic at this point has seen or talked to KC or Caylee in days/month gets Amy to take her to KC. Amy probably was quite excited to take her to KC at this point. CA goes into TL apt forces KC out has conversations about Caylees whereabouts, KC lies, lies, lies. Cindy gets mad tries to flush it out of KC by calling the police. CA tries to take her to station but closed since it is night, calls police gets wrong precent, gets transfered to another. During transfer you can hear CA threaten to get court order to get Caylee. I am guessing they are transferred several times and CA decides to go home, on the way KC makes up stories. CA calls police from home now adding a possible missing chlild. KC makes up the ZG story, CA calls police once more freaking out.

Sorry for typos, misspellings etc.

July 7-leaves her cryptic blog:
"On the worst of worst days, remember the words spoken
Trust no one, only yourself.
With great power, comes great consequence.
What is given can be taken away.
Everyone Lies.
Everyone Dies."


http://investigation.discovery.com/...overage/timeline/caylee_anthony_timeline.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,401921,00.html

I like this theory for the most part, except I believe casey either used chloroform to kill the baby or to knock Caylee out before drowning or smothering her.
I think casey either killed Caylee on the 15th and dad is lying or confused about when he last saw them, or, she was killed like you said, on the 16th.
Also, I think that casey drove around with Caylee in the trunk for a few days after the child's murder, probably had her buried on site for a day or two and then, on or around the 18th, put her in the trunk. That's why there was still such a rank smell in the car a few weeks later. I think casey dumped her baby in the woods on or around the 24th of June.
For all who still think this was an accident, how do you explain searches on line from the computer casey used for not only chloroform, but also neck-breaking, missing children, inhalation and death, in March 2008?
To me, it's obvious casey was hunting for a way to get rid of her baby. The fact that significant traces orf chloroform was found in the trunk one month after anyone saw Caylee alive clinches the deal for me.

 

[burningsky22]

I like this theory for the most part, except I believe casey either used chloroform to kill the baby or to knock Caylee out before drowning or smothering her.
I think casey either killed Caylee on the 15th and dad is lying or confused about when he last saw them, or, she was killed like you said, on the 16th.
Also, I think that casey drove around with Caylee in the trunk for a few days after the child's murder, probably had her buried on site for a day or two and then, on or around the 18th, put her in the trunk. That's why there was still such a rank smell in the car a few weeks later. I think casey dumped her baby in the woods on or around the 24th of June.
For all who still think this was an accident, how do you explain searches on line from the computer casey used for not only chloroform, but also neck-breaking, missing children, inhalation and death, in March 2008?
To me, it's obvious casey was hunting for a way to get rid of her baby. The fact that significant traces orf chloroform was found in the trunk one month after anyone saw Caylee alive clinches the deal for me.

lol, yes she would have had to driven a few days with her in the trunk, so lets ammend my timeline for that.

i don't think it was an accident either. she murdered that little girl, hands down, no one can change my opinion there. if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck then guess what it's a duck!

 

[norr]

Good stuff here. What did Cindy and Casey argue about???

 

[burningsky22]

Good stuff here. What did Cindy and Casey argue about???

KC's manipulation, mooching off her parents for so long, partying? them getting tired of taking care of her. her stealing? idk. but KC was far from the perfect child. they were probably tired her antics and decided to give her tough love. who knows what she could have done, stolen something that sent them over the edge.

 

[norr]

KC's manipulation, mooching off her parents for slow long, partying? them getting tired of taking care of her. her stealing? idk. but KC was far from the perfect child. they were probably tired her antics and decided to give her tough love. who knows what she could have done, stolen something that sent them over the edge.

Thanks! :blowkiss:

So sad. All of this. Too much sadness for sure.

 

[pregodego2]

I really think that Caylee's estimated time of death has been narrowed down pretty well and KellioPSL's theory is very very plausible. We may find out at trial, we may not. The part that's got me staying up at night thinking about and first thing in the morning, is where did she put her? Why is it so difficult to find her when KC's world seemed to be not far off the beaten path of Goldenrod?

well you hit the nail on the head huh?