Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #191

[dkaras]

None of us know where he was. That’s why the cell phone data would be important. There’s a big distinction between eyewitnesses describing a man wearing (insert four different descriptions of an outfit) and actually “knowing” or identifying it as RA. We shouldn’t make that level of assumptions in court cases. That’s why we need real evidence to support that fact. MOO

But... RA said he was there, at particular times (whether 1330 to 1530 or before 1330, still a debate), regardless of clothing, watching or looking at a stock ticker on his phone. So, IMO, whatever he was or was not wearing, he was there, with a phone, per his own statements. The phone should corroborate his story. And if his phone wasn't there, where was he or what phone did he have and where is THAT phone, or why is he claiming to be somewhere he wasn't watching stock tickers? Who cares what he was wearing? The color of the jacket shouldn't change whether HIS OWN story checks out or not.

JMO

 

[Boxer]

But... RA said he was there, at particular times (whether 1330 to 1530 or before 1330, still a debate), regardless of clothing, watching or looking at a stock ticker on his phone. So, IMO, whatever he was or was not wearing, he was there, with a phone, per his own statements. The phone should corroborate his story. And if his phone wasn't there, where was he or what phone did he have and where is THAT phone, or why is he claiming to be somewhere he wasn't watching stock tickers? Who cares what he was wearing? The color of the jacket shouldn't change whether HIS OWN story checks out or not.

JMO

The witnesses are credible.
He placed himself there.

 

[mrjitty]

Okay.
So BH follows Heathenry.
They worship old Norse gods..
I suppose we can call it Odinism.

I don't think that the Vinlanders are any better, I just believe that each group has variations that distinguish one from the next.

IMO BH had to be looked at because AW and his boy had crushes on each other.

They (LE) investigated, BH had a verifiable alibi.

At this point, I honestly don't know why we are talking about him.

JMO

agreed

it needs to be remembered that someone being a heathen of some kind is not evidence of a crime. it was an investigative theory that created a profile.

similarly the hunches or suspicions of Click and Murphy are not evidence.

MOO

 

[grannygates]

But... RA said he was there, at particular times (whether 1330 to 1530 or before 1330, still a debate), regardless of clothing, watching or looking at a stock ticker on his phone. So, IMO, whatever he was or was not wearing, he was there, with a phone, per his own statements. The phone should corroborate his story. And if his phone wasn't there, where was he or what phone did he have and where is THAT phone, or why is he claiming to be somewhere he wasn't watching stock tickers? Who cares what he was wearing? The color of the jacket shouldn't change whether HIS OWN story checks out or not.

JMO

Yep, I agree. The phone data has to show something. It’s usually such a big component in proving cases so it’s odd IMO that it hasn’t been mentioned.

 

[sunshineray]

None of us know where he was. That’s why the cell phone data would be important. There’s a big distinction between eyewitnesses describing a man wearing (insert four different descriptions of an outfit) and actually “knowing” or identifying it as RA. We shouldn’t make that level of assumptions in court cases. That’s why we need real evidence to support that fact. MOO

RA certainly knew where he was and when, by his own statements he imparted that information.

 

[sunshineray]

Yep, I agree. The phone data has to show something. It’s usually such a big component in proving cases so it’s odd IMO that it hasn’t been mentioned.

The case hasn't been to trial yet and there's a gag order in place...not odd at all that it hasn't been mentioned yet.

We don't have the right to know yet. The case is not supposed to be tried in the media. Something the DT has yet to understand or honor. MO

 

[sunshineray]

Okay.
So BH follows Heathenry.
They worship old Norse gods..
I suppose we can call it Odinism.

I don't think that the Vinlanders are any better, I just believe that each group has variations that distinguish one from the next.

IMO BH had to be looked at because AW and his boy had crushes on each other.

They (LE) investigated, BH had a verifiable alibi.

At this point, I honestly don't know why we are talking about him.

JMO

Amen and agree!

 

[sunshineray]

I don’t believe anything anyone says without evidence. There is more than one blue jacket in Indiana. RL was on the news the next day in full bridge guy drip. People called in to the tipline thinking BG was him. Owning a blue jacket is not enough evidence to convict a person. MOO

Do you believe everything in the FMs? Do you believe, even against testified evidence, that the girls were transported somewhere and then brought back to the crime scene? Do you believe that Libby's video was compromised somehow, by someone? Do you believe that BG was never on the bridge? These things and many more have been thrown out there on these threads. Are they credible in your opinion? None of them are in mine. JMO

 

[mrjitty]

Actually my opinion has always been that it was EF, based on #1. The spit comments quoted by officer Murphy (I think it was Murphy, but regardless, definitely one of the investigating officers), #2. He was caught lying about his hospital alibis & the whereabouts of his phone, #3. His almost desperate desire to join BH and their group, to the point that he copied & verbatim reposted BH's Facebook content on his own social media account, #4. What his sisters (plural) reported him saying; things like: He had brothers now, he placed horns, and that he might have to leave town. In that order. (#1 being the most convincing to me, ordered down to #4.)

I have worked with countless people like EF, developmentally disabled, (minus the murdering component!) and while I realize the sisters could very well have been motivated by the offered reward, the behaviors and the various reported conversations are strikingly consistent and ring very true to me.

A dev. disabled individual could absolutely believe wholeheartedly that the fictional fantasies of human sacrifice are true and real. And super cool! And what better way to (finally) get BH or PW or whoever---to get your idols to welcome you into their club and be your new brothers?

That was my theory. Unfortunately I haven't seen any solid evidence to back it up. Maybe that's because said evidence is missing due to LE incompetence or cover up, maybe it's missing because it never existed, but it doesn't matter: The evidence is building against RA. I could nitpick most points individually, 99%, but that still leaves the overwhelming whole.

Doesnt matter how nebulous each issue might be, taken together it is BARD.
Add to that the defense's appalling ethics, now no question, unearthed. Honestly if they had been better humans, an innocent RA might still have had a chance. If an innocent man is found guilty, it's on them.

This is a really great post.

I think you lay out quite well the difference between investigative theories and profiles, and actual evidence at trial.

Thank you for sharing!

 

[MiniMoo]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

Was looking at what else came out during the Delphi 3 Day Hearing and anything else of interest related to the case.

Now I need to find out when did RA lose the plot and confess - before or after he received the Discovery.

 

[Willow Knight]

DBM

 

[grannygates]

Do you believe everything in the FMs? Do you believe, even against testified evidence, that the girls were transported somewhere and then brought back to the crime scene? Do you believe that Libby's video was compromised somehow, by someone? Do you believe that BG was never on the bridge? These things and many more have been thrown out there on these threads. Are they credible in your opinion? None of them are in mine. JMO

Whenever there is some type of allegation in a court filing, I look to see if the information is quoted or cited from an expert or law enforcement.

If it’s not quoted (like geofencing can be off by thousands of meters) Ill research that myself or look to other court docs to cross reference to see this is a true fact being presented.

If the official answer from Google is actually geofencing is accurate down to 3-5 meters, then I know I need to take a grain of salt with what that author says.

Im not wholly committed to any one opinion, as our opinions should change as we learn more credible information. I like to do my homework and decide what is reliable info based on my own research. I don’t believe something just because it comes from one “side”. MOO

 

[grannygates]

The case hasn't been to trial yet and there's a gag order in place...not odd at all that it hasn't been mentioned yet.

We don't have the right to know yet. The case is not supposed to be tried in the media. Something the DT has yet to understand or honor. MO

Mentioned in court filings or during hearings. IMO The gag order wouldn’t restrict the prosecution from mentioning evidence in court filings. This is how we learned about the “61 confessions”. MOO

 

[sunshineray]

Whenever there is some type of allegation in a court filing, I look to see if the information is quoted or cited from an expert or law enforcement.

If it’s not quoted (like geofencing can be off by thousands of meters) Ill research that myself or look to other court docs to cross reference to see this is a true fact being presented.

If the official answer from Google is actually geofencing is accurate down to 3-5 meters, then I know I need to take a grain of salt with what that author says.

Im not wholly committed to any one opinion, as our opinions should change as we learn more credible information. I like to do my homework and decide what is reliable info based on my own research. I don’t believe something just because it comes from one “side”. MOO

Ok. I know for myself, the more outrageous and unreasonable claims, that I particularly mentioned, flying in the face of evidence filed and common sense, I can never consider as logical. That's just me, I don't entertain the craziness of such conspiracy-type theories. All just my sensibilities and opinion.

 

[Inthedetails]

Ok. I know for myself, the more outrageous and unreasonable claims, that I particularly mentioned, flying in the face of evidence filed and common sense, I can never consider as logical. That's just me, I don't entertain the craziness of such conspiracy-type theories. All just my sensibilities and opinion.

I agree.

At the beginning of a case, it is a time to test out various theories. But at this stage, when a suspect has been arrested based on evidence and is heading to trial where the public will learn even more evidence, I believe the prosecutors have already examined all the various leads and eliminated them. They did that work.

The time is past for thinking the crazy conspiracy theories have any merit. my opinion

jmo

 

[Tealgrove]

I agree.

At the beginning of a case, it is a time to test out various theories. But at this stage, when a suspect has been arrested based on evidence and is heading to trial where the public will learn even more evidence, I believe the prosecutors have already examined all the various leads and eliminated them. They did that work.

The time is past for thinking the crazy conspiracy theories have any merit. my opinion

jmo

Yup. Enough is enough. We finally have some real information and it’s time to move on.

MOO

 

[sunshineray]

Mentioned in court filings or during hearings. IMO The gag order wouldn’t restrict the prosecution from mentioning evidence in court filings. This is how we learned about the “61 confessions”. MOO

Writing a ramble story accusing 4 men, already checked out by numerous LE, of being murderers and lots of could be's and what if's and protected discovery (ex: like the girls were hung up by their ankles and describing the crime scene) just to put stuff out on SM, despicable. MO

 

[grannygates]

Ok. I know for myself, the more outrageous and unreasonable claims, that I particularly mentioned, flying in the face of evidence filed and common sense, I can never consider as logical. That's just me, I don't entertain the craziness of such conspiracy-type theories. All just my sensibilities and opinion.

The information comes direct from the FBI, law enforcement and the states own discovery. I would hardly call referring to their own work detailing the first 2.5+ years of their investigation as a “conspiracy”.

It’s a slippery slope if we believe the state is lying and fabricated documents detailing 2.5+ years of their own investigation and that the FBI agents and LE testifying about their own work are lying (and for what reason?). Where do the lies end ?

MOO

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Whenever there is some type of allegation in a court filing, I look to see if the information is quoted or cited from an expert or law enforcement.

If it’s not quoted (like geofencing can be off by thousands of meters) Ill research that myself or look to other court docs to cross reference to see this is a true fact being presented.

If the official answer from Google is actually geofencing is accurate down to 3-5 meters, then I know I need to take a grain of salt with what that author says.

Im not wholly committed to any one opinion, as our opinions should change as we learn more credible information. I like to do my homework and decide what is reliable info based on my own research. I don’t believe something just because it comes from one “side”. MOO

Where did you find your facts about geofencing acurracy?
My research has come up with 100-200 meters as more accurate. Accuracy decreases to a few hundred meters when the area contains few towers or hotspots or if the area is rural, such as Delphi.

 

[grannygates]

Where did you find your facts about geofencing acurracy?
My research has come up with 100-200 meters as more accurate. Accuracy decreases to a few hundred meters when the area contains few towers or hotspots or if the area is rural, such as Delphi.

The court hearing as well as in the Chatrie case regarding geofencing. GPS doesn’t use towers. The Snapchat photo of the bridge had the correct GPS coordinations in its metadata, so we can use that to independently conclude that GPS would be correct in that area.

https://www.nacdl.org/getattachment/dc48746c-32f2-44d7-91c1-a32e3d153811/us-v-chatrieruling.pdf