Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #4

[Rumpole]

Thinking some more. If KC finally bagged the body in garbage bag on the 20th she may have thought her problem was largely over or at least "well contained" She may well have continued driving around with the bagged body in the trunk thinking that the smell would now soon go. But it didn't! That could be why she returned on 23rd and 24th.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

My guess with NO scientific background to back it up! If the body was in the bag laying on top of the wet stain, as the trunk heated the liquids would only condense on the bottom of the bag laying over it, or not at all and this is what kept the smell down when the body was in the car...however when the body was removed, the condensation/evaporation was more widespread, making it more noticeable? Perhaps the pants were originally in the trunk, and for this reason, maybe they didn't smell as much when she took them out, or maybe she just assumed it was the body that smelled and not the pants...then she throws the pants in the backseat after cleaning out the trunk...maybe her hands are dirty and she uses the pants to wipe them off? Next time she gets into her car (say after the weekend, assuming she doesn't drive or TonE drives on the weekend), that's when her car and trunk smell becomes much more noticeable and that's when she sends Amy the text...still doesn't explain why George smells nothing but who knows? With all the attention paid to gasoline in the forensics I have wondered if she poured gas on the stain trying to douse the smell and ended up making it worse...maybe George just smells gas, which he is expecting to smell since she is giving him the gas cans?

 

[BondJamesBond]

I liked a lot of what Bond put forward yesterday. The likely use of Lee's house etc. I am just trying to avoid transfering the body to another vehicle, or trying to play amateur mortician on the side of the road.
I think that the dump site was "chosen" solely because it was near where KC was with this problem. She drove there from the A's whatever happened before that.

...I didn't put the hybrids of the two in there, which would've been Example C and D.

Example C: T.O.D. 3PM 6/16 w/ Casey bagging between 3:07PM-3:57PM Thursday 6/19, then, disposing on her 6/20PM return to G&C's. This is the theory I'd been parked on for some time prior to observing the "flurry" behavior of 6/9 and 6/16...leading me to believe Casey was compelled to call for Caylee-Care as late as 6:30-7:20PM in the same rapid-fire fashion as before. If Caylee died before 6:30PM I cannot come up w/ a reason Casey would repeat this behavior. If it was going to be a "We won't be home" message she would have been content to leave that as a vmail. She didn't...she fired off 4 calls to Cindy in under 3 mins @ 6:30PM.

Example D: T.O.D. 7:20PM 6/16 => bagging 6/19 ~7:30 => disposal on her 6/20PM return trip to G&C's.

Example D kinda makes sense to your point...we are talkin' Casey after all. She doesn't go out of her way. BTW...the Jeep doesn't have to be involved in any of these examples.

 

[BondJamesBond]

Thinking some more. If KC finally bagged the body in garbage bag on the 20th she may have thought her problem was largely over or at least "well contained" She may well have continued driving around with the bagged body in the trunk thinking that the smell would now soon go. But it didn't! That could be why she returned on 23rd and 24th.

I contend that Casey would NOT have called Tony for help when she ran out of gas if the body was still in the trunk on 6/23. This is my primary reason for suggesting the body was out before this date. The other consideration is that disposal on/prior to 6/20 would, perhaps, support Casey's partying her a$$ off @ Fusian that night...relieved she was rid of the body and not caught....yet.

JWG has observed that Casey pulled into the driveway @ G&C's when she was caught by George on 6/24. That she didn't back in indicates that she was done w/ whatever manipulation she intended regarding the body.

Still...both of these points could be incorrect, and, if you buy what I put forth regarding "the chase" on 6/29, being Casey in Tony's Jeep that morning...then...Casey could've borrowed Tony's Jeep to get the body outta the Pontiac trunk 6/29AM @ Amscot taking it to Suburban Dr. for disposal that morning - where she is spotted upon exiting toward Chickasaw by George...and the chase begins. I don't think this is what happened, but I toss it out there just to recognize that there are plenty of permutations we could go through until we have more facts to discount one or the other.

 

[Rumpole]

Bond
I still DO NOT like any of the theories involving bagging on the 19th because it had to be done on the side of the road and not at the A's.
1. Risk of being caught doing it and 2. No reason to then drive to the A's to dump.
I like the date and the times and all that, but I can not get away from the fact that she dumped the body down the road from where she had the problem.

23rd could have already dumped the body,THEN ran out of gas. Stupid? That's believable.

I was aware of driving in on 24th and not backing. Simple again. She already had the body bagged up and ready to go! She was not intending to do anything with it there this trip. God knows why she called in? More clothes, a sandwich?

PS 23rd and 24th not deal breakers for me. I can accept dumping body on 20th as soon as it was bagged and ready.

 

[Rumpole]

Bond

I never heard and certainly didn't think my self about retreiving the body from the pontiac 29th. I'll keep it in the back of my mind.
It does not interfer with my (or your) scenario of bagging date PROVIDED... a plastic garbage bag, with normal sealing is sufficient to contain decomposition fluids AND GASES for 9/10 days!? I have my doubts. Even with a bag with absolutely no holes, and a good seal, I think gases may leech through the plastic itself over that time?

 

[BondJamesBond]

Bond
I still DO NOT like any of the theories involving bagging on the 19th because it had to be done on the side of the road and not at the A's.
1. Risk of being caught doing it and 2. No reason to then drive to the A's to dump.
I like the date and the times and all that, but I can not get away from the fact that she dumped the body down the road from where she had the problem.

23rd could have already dumped the body,THEN ran out of gas. Stupid? That's believable.

I was aware of driving in on 24th and not backing. Simple again. She already had the body bagged up and ready to go! She was not intending to do anything with it there this trip. God knows why she called in? More clothes, a sandwich?

PS 23rd and 24th not deal breakers for me. I can accept dumping body on 20th as soon as it was bagged and ready.

I certainly understand your line of thinking...and that's all good.

FWIW, recall, the body is already inside a hamper bag...not visible. For this reason, I'm not as concerned as you are about being seen putting one bag into another in a secluded corner of Tony's Apt. parking lot...or at the end of some secluded street north of JB Park...depending on which timeframe you work on. IMHO, the odor is the concern @ this point, hence, a reasonable distance from passersby is her main requirement.

I'm liking Example D...the xfer in the sundown-twilight hours of 7/19PM in Tony's Apt. parking lot to set-up 6/20 disposal.

Regarding why dispose on Suburban...I can't quote the statistics, but, I believe this is the sad 'norm' in these cases. Disposals close to home for psychological reasons. And, if you go w/ an in-the-trunk o.d. scenario...then, the acute 'problem' occurred near Tony's apt....unless you're referring to the chronic 'problem', which I understand. Otherwise, you hafta go with one of the died-@-G&C scenarios to tie acute & chronic to this disposal site selection.

 

[txsvicki]

Until they say differently at the trial, I don't believe that Casey drove around with Caylee in the trunk for 2.5 days because there was dirt found in the trunk. I think Caylee was probably sedated with an ambien to knock her out good and quick, within 15 minutes then placed in the trunk to be chloroformed/and or suffocated with something that would displace the oxygen in the sealed trunk and in the body. She probably expired within 30 minutes and lost body fluids. I'm just going by the evidence found, especially the high levels of chloroform, and the timeline that didn't give a lot of time to do things. She planned ahead and did it all within 45 minutes or even less. I believe Caylee was buried in loose soil beside the pool and the pool box placed on top until Casey transferred her back to the trunk for a quick drive down the street to the disposal site.

 

[BondJamesBond]

Bond

I never heard and certainly didn't think my self about retreiving the body from the pontiac 29th. I'll keep it in the back of my mind.
It does not interfer with my (or your) scenario of bagging date PROVIDED... a plastic garbage bag, with normal sealing is sufficient to contain decomposition fluids AND GASES for 9/10 days!? I have my doubts. Even with a bag with absolutely no holes, and a good seal, I think gases may leech through the plastic itself over that time?

FWIW, I'm no longer scouring through released information, but, IIRC, it was reported that the bag was not sealed w/ duct tape as had been widely speculated. If this was a drawstring bag...well, then...

 

[Rumpole]

Bond

More guessing: the stats about bodies close to home probably due to the fact that home is where the dirty deed takes place. I still think going back just to dump the body less likely?
Since we both agree KC was messing about with a body in the back yard, it seems likely when she decided to give up on that and dump the body she would have bagged it?

Then again perhaps the Nanny did it?

 

[nomoresorrow]

Until they say differently at the trial, I don't believe that Casey drove around with Caylee in the trunk for 2.5 days because there was dirt found in the trunk. I think Caylee was probably sedated with an ambien to knock her out good and quick, within 15 minutes then placed in the trunk to be chloroformed/and or suffocated with something that would displace the oxygen in the sealed trunk and in the body. She probably expired within 30 minutes and lost body fluids. I'm just going by the evidence found, especially the high levels of chloroform, and the timeline that didn't give a lot of time to do things. She planned ahead and did it all within 45 minutes or even less. I believe Caylee was buried in loose soil beside the pool and the pool box placed on top until Casey transferred her back to the trunk for a quick drive down the street to the disposal site.

Let me get this straight, (sorry, a little thick on this issue) the decomposition test results don't tell us that Caylee was actually in the trunk for 2.5 or 2.6 days, whatever it was, it simply tells us that the stage/phase into the decomposition process was 2.5 or 2.6 days, is that correct? I need to go back and read whatever info was released around that time (when the evidence came out) because it seems to me that it was reported from the get go that Casey had driven around with Caylee dead in the trunk for two and a half days...maybe it's just me and I heard it all wrong all along....

 

[nomoresorrow]

This is a test post. Having problems posting here.

 

[JBean]

This is a test post. Having problems posting here.

lets see how are we doing now?

 

[nomoresorrow]

There it is! Thank you JBean! :blowkiss:

 

[natsound]

That's what I remembered too, but some were talking about using it on the duct tape.....I don't think that would work too,good....

I'm confused about the knife, and really all the items in the car. CA and GA took it from the tow yard so they had their hands on the knife, the backpack, and everything else. So they handed all of this stuff over to LE, and now LE has it in evidence? We can't be sure CA gave LE the correct knife.

 

[natsound]

Let me get this straight, (sorry, a little thick on this issue) the decomposition test results don't tell us that Caylee was actually in the trunk for 2.5 or 2.6 days, whatever it was, it simply tells us that the stage/phase into the decomposition process was 2.5 or 2.6 days, is that correct? I need to go back and read whatever info was released around that time (when the evidence came out) because it seems to me that it was reported from the get go that Casey had driven around with Caylee dead in the trunk for two and a half days...maybe it's just me and I heard it all wrong all along....

I can only tell you that it's never been reported that KC drove around with a dead body in the trunk for 2.6 days.. it's all speculation and guessing. The decomp event in the trunk was charted at 2.6 days.

 

[nomoresorrow]

I can only tell you that it's never been reported that KC drove around with a dead body in the trunk for 2.6 days.. it's all speculation and guessing. The decomp event in the trunk was charted at 2.6 days.

Thank you natsound, I appreciate you clearing that up for me.

 

[nomoresorrow]

I'm confused about the knife, and really all the items in the car. CA and GA took it from the tow yard so they had their hands on the knife, the backpack, and everything else. So they handed all of this stuff over to LE, and now LE has it in evidence? We can't be sure CA gave LE the correct knife.

Nope, we can't. I'm sure LE realized that after learning about the "hairbrush incident", if not sooner. So as far as I'm concerned everything alledged to have been in the car and handed over by CA should be disregarded. It doesn't mean squat. MOO

 

[Steely Dan]

I think you are exactly right about the DC wanting to move the body to that house!!!! What has ever happened to the investigation of him?

IMO, it's still pending. I think they have a lot to sort through and are getting ready to question some people involved in it. They want to have a lot of facts to make sure their stories add up before they question them.

I think fluids would be leaking from a variety of orifices.

I have a very hard time believing KC would touch the body with fluids leaking out. JMO.

I also have a problem rectifying the cadaver dogs not hitting on a body when they went through that area originally.

Eyewitness testimony is the weakest testimony to take seriously but I wonder if the sightings near the airport of two people were true and then the body was moved when they learned that that area was probably going to be searched. They decided to move the body to a place that had already been gone over by the dogs. :waitasec:

Not sure it fits the timeline but just a thought.

 

[nomoresorrow]

(Bold by me)

IMO, it's still pending. I think they have a lot to sort through and are getting ready to question some people involved in it. They want to have a lot of facts to make sure their stories add up before they question them.



I have a very hard time believing KC would touch the body with fluids leaking out. JMO.

I also have a problem rectifying the cadaver dogs not hitting on a body when they went through that area originally.Eyewitness testimony is the weakest testimony to take seriously but I wonder if the sightings near the airport of two people were true and then the body was moved when they learned that that area was probably going to be searched. They decided to move the body to a place that had already been gone over by the dogs. :waitasec:

Not sure it fits the timeline but just a thought.

I don't recall LE clearing that particular area with cadaver dogs, do you have a link to that? TIA.