Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #4

[reeseeva]

Per Yuri Melich on page 3168 of discovery documents (search warrants):

"The remains appeared to have originally been within a black plastic garbage bag and within a cloth laundry hamper bag. There was a piece of silver duct tape over the mouth area of the skull. The skull, bag, and loose bones were collected and taken to the Orange County Medical Examiner's office for further examination."

The bag situation can be interpreted different ways from Yuri's report. Garbage bag within the laundry bag , laundry bag within the garbage bag, or the remains could have been in a black bag as well as in a laundry bag.

It's never clearly stated how the remains were bagged but it's interesting to note that the report can be interpreted as saying the remains were in two separate bags. I know this only adds to the confusion but it is what it is!:crazy:

Logically, the plastic bag was on the outside and that's what I'm going with but we really don't know. I wonder if the ambiguity is intentional?

Marina, Excellent interpretation, & definitely ambiguous....I'd say you are from the Spock's form of Logic!

 

[Skully]

Per Yuri Melich on page 3168 of discovery documents (search warrants):

"The remains appeared to have originally been within a black plastic garbage bag and within a cloth laundry hamper bag. There was a piece of silver duct tape over the mouth area of the skull. The skull, bag, and loose bones were collected and taken to the Orange County Medical Examiner's office for further examination."

The bag situation can be interpreted different ways from Yuri's report. Garbage bag within the laundry bag , laundry bag within the garbage bag, or the remains could have been in a black bag as well as in a laundry bag.

It's never clearly stated how the remains were bagged but it's interesting to note that the report can be interpreted as saying the remains were in two separate bags. I know this only adds to the confusion but it is what it is!:crazy:

Logically, the plastic bag was on the outside and that's what I'm going with but we really don't know. I wonder if the ambiguity is intentional?

OMG, I just had a horrible image. Laundry bags bags have a tie at the top. If you put a child in a bag and tied it at the neck, the child couldn't use it's hands or feet. You could then drug them and duct tape the mouth and they wouldn't be able to take the tape off....

 

[Rumpole]

OMG, I just had a horrible image. Laundry bags bags have a tie at the top. If you put a child in a bag and tied it at the neck, the child couldn't use it's hands or feet. You could then drug them and duct tape the mouth and they wouldn't be able to take the tape off....

That is a horrible image. Possible on the basis of the evidence, but I try and think about the overall situation at the time, and it seems more likely the laundry bag was used to hide the body from potential wittnesses by the neighbours. It would not have been out of place if she was carrying a laundry bag to the back yard, along the side of the house.

 

[Rumpole]

KC, out of character backed into the Garage 3 times

I think whatever the true details of “What Happened to Caylee” turn out to be, the most critical place involved is; inside the Anthony Garage with the main door closed. Early on either a dead Caylee was placed in the trunk of the Pontiac, or a live Caylee, gagged with duct tape, and possibly sedated was placed in the trunk. Either done inside the garage. Later, I have little doubt, Caylee’s body was moved in and out of the trunk. Again inside the garage. On at least one occasion, the body was transported to the backyard, probably via the side garage door, the gate, along the North side of the house to the Pool Area, and the Play Area, before being returned by the reverse route to the garage and the trunk. Probably wrapped in Pooh blanket and placed in a laundry bag early on, and only finally sealed in a black plastic rubbish bag, (with as yet not revealed colour ties), and placed pen ultimately in the trunk. The final act of dumping the body was played out soon after leaving the Anthony garage with the body thusly prepared (20thJune), or after one of two subsequent visits to the Anthony home by KC on 23rd and 24th June 2008.

I think it is important to stress:
The Garage with Laundry set up, is a place you are likely to find:

1. Duct Tape

2. Laundry Bag

3. Black Plastic Garbage Bag.

4. Complete Privacy (Nefarious Deeds, for the use of doing)

5. All maner of Cleaning Products and Chemicals. (Chloroform, for the unwitting creation of)

 

[Jersey*Girl]

KC, out of character backed into the Garage 3 times

I think whatever the true details of “What Happened to Caylee” turn out to be, the most critical place involved is; inside the Anthony Garage with the main door closed. Early on either a dead Caylee was placed in the trunk of the Pontiac, or a live Caylee, gagged with duct tape, and possibly sedated was placed in the trunk. Either done inside the garage. Later, I have little doubt, Caylee’s body was moved in and out of the trunk. Again inside the garage. On at least one occasion, the body was transported to the backyard, probably via the side garage door, the gate, along the North side of the house to the Pool Area, and the Play Area, before being returned by the reverse route to the garage and the trunk. Probably wrapped in Pooh blanket and placed in a laundry bag early on, and only finally sealed in a black plastic rubbish bag, (with as yet not revealed colour ties), and placed pen ultimately in the trunk. The final act of dumping the body was played out soon after leaving the Anthony garage with the body thusly prepared (20thJune), or after one of two subsequent visits to the Anthony home by KC on 23rd and 24th June 2008.

I think it is important to stress:
The Garage with Laundry set up, is a place you are likely to find:

1. Duct Tape

2. Laundry Bag

3. Black Plastic Garbage Bag.

4. Complete Privacy (Nefarious Deeds, for the use of doing)

5. All maner of Cleaning Products and Chemicals. (Chloroform, for the unwitting creation of)

I totally agree. Also, I read something along the lines of a portion of drywall being removed from the A's garage - do we know that to be a fact yet, or is it just rumor? Have you heard about this? If it's a fact, what could have been on that drywall that the police were so interested in testing? The reason I'm suggesting this is b/c Dr. G stated there was no trauma to the bones: ie no breaks, cuts, etc. So with that knowledge, I'm inclined to think that there wasn't a massive amount of blood on the wall.

 

[Rumpole]

I totally agree. Also, I read something along the lines of a portion of drywall being removed from the A's garage - do we know that to be a fact yet, or is it just rumor? Have you heard about this? If it's a fact, what could have been on that drywall that the police were so interested in testing? The reason I'm suggesting this is b/c Dr. G stated there was no trauma to the bones: ie no breaks, cuts, etc. So with that knowledge, I'm inclined to think that there wasn't a massive amount of blood on the wall.

It's just rumour.

I have sought evidence, nothing has turned up.

 

[Steely Dan]

KC, out of character backed into the Garage 3 times

I think whatever the true details of “What Happened to Caylee” turn out to be, the most critical place involved is; inside the Anthony Garage with the main door closed. Early on either a dead Caylee was placed in the trunk of the Pontiac, or a live Caylee, gagged with duct tape, and possibly sedated was placed in the trunk. Either done inside the garage. Later, I have little doubt, Caylee’s body was moved in and out of the trunk. Again inside the garage. On at least one occasion, the body was transported to the backyard, probably via the side garage door, the gate, along the North side of the house to the Pool Area, and the Play Area, before being returned by the reverse route to the garage and the trunk. Probably wrapped in Pooh blanket and placed in a laundry bag early on, and only finally sealed in a black plastic rubbish bag, (with as yet not revealed colour ties), and placed pen ultimately in the trunk. The final act of dumping the body was played out soon after leaving the Anthony garage with the body thusly prepared (20thJune), or after one of two subsequent visits to the Anthony home by KC on 23rd and 24th June 2008.

I think it is important to stress:
The Garage with Laundry set up, is a place you are likely to find:

1. Duct Tape

2. Laundry Bag

3. Black Plastic Garbage Bag.

4. Complete Privacy (Nefarious Deeds, for the use of doing)

5. All maner of Cleaning Products and Chemicals. (Chloroform, for the unwitting creation of)

Excellent. Makes sense to me. :thumb:

 

[Rumpole]

Excellent. Makes sense to me. :thumb:

I thought somebody might argue with "with the main door closed"

I see no mention of this. I am guessing.

I there any testimony or evidence for that?

 

[maza]

ITA! (Self-fulfilling prophecy, hmm where have I heard this before lol!) Doesn't sound the least crazy to me (no less plausible than all the farfetched theories we hear). No actually, it is perfectly consistent w/ what we know of KC's self-involved, disorganized personality. KC lacked among many things the right priorities, good judgment, parenting skills and especially the maturity and selflessness to make the necessary sacrifices for her child. I just don't think that necessarily equates w malice and forethought. There was nothing preventing her from a party lifesyle when her parents had offered to assume custody and KC could have disappeared w/OUT Caylee--and been entirely free to do whatever she wanted. And there is more than one possible interpretation of her behavior following her daughter's death. One is the 'Dancing on the Grave' explanation. But it's also possible that all her high risk, manic behaviors simply escalated in her own attempt to escape the reality of what had happened. It doesn't villify or demonize KC, but as the mother of a 20 year-old daughter myself and grandmother to her two-year old daughter, one can only hope that should a young already labelled "unfit" unbalanced mother's self-centered, narcissistic behavior, poor priorities and childish preoccupation lead to the death of their child, they would have the courage, humility and mental stability to respond to that sort of trauma and tragedy in a brave, realistic or responsible way. IMO there just isn't the least shred, nothing whatsoever in KC's past indicating we could expect this kind of mentally stable response from her in the aftermath of this sort of scenario. JMO

wow and thanks!

 

[Indigo]

Hey, don't sweat it. There are lots of times I feel like I am the only one who thinks the chloroform is actually relevant. The bottom line is they are all theories based on the way we each have viewed the evidence. LOL, if we all agreed on every point, there would be nothing to discuss.
Lanie

Ha, ha! I know how you feel, Lanie. I still think chloroform is relevant to this case. The latest search warrant underscores that for me. Depending on what's allowed into evidence it may be hard to prove though.

I love that there are differing opinions on WS -- I learn so much from everyone here!

:blowkiss:

 

[maza]

minor but wanted to mention:

i have never cut duct tape with a knife so i don't think the knife was used to cut duct tape. - 99% of the time i rip it with hands or use teeth if it is really tough, or use scissors. (fyi - i am around the same size as casey).

also, i use duct tape a lot and have several rolls of it around in various places: car, basement, toolkit,etc. i buy several rolls at once - wondering if the roll that was used was part of a package of 3 and how that would affect forensics of matching tape to a particular roll.

 

[Chilly Willy]

minor but wanted to mention:

i have never cut duct tape with a knife so i don't think the knife was used to cut duct tape. - 99% of the time i rip it with hands or use teeth if it is really tough, or use scissors. (fyi - i am around the same size as casey).

also, i use duct tape a lot and have several rolls of it around in various places: car, basement, toolkit,etc. i buy several rolls at once - wondering if the roll that was used was part of a package of 3 and how that would affect forensics of matching tape to a particular roll.

Without having 3 hands, it's almost impossible to cut duct tape with a knife.

 

[Rumpole]

Ha, ha! I know how you feel, Lanie. I still think chloroform is relevant to this case. The latest search warrant underscores that for me. Depending on what's allowed into evidence it may be hard to prove though.

I love that there are differing opinions on WS -- I learn so much from everyone here!

:blowkiss:

Chloroform is very relevant because it has come up in the KC computer search and the forensics. LE would be derelict in their duty if they did not investigate and search for evidence. However, the fact that it is being investigated does not alone make it anymore significant than it is. It is just a possibility. The evidence may prove it to be very important or totally irrelevant to the crime.

 

[kikid]

KC, out of character backed into the Garage 3 times

I think whatever the true details of “What Happened to Caylee” turn out to be, the most critical place involved is; inside the Anthony Garage with the main door closed. Early on either a dead Caylee was placed in the trunk of the Pontiac, or a live Caylee, gagged with duct tape, and possibly sedated was placed in the trunk. Either done inside the garage. Later, I have little doubt, Caylee’s body was moved in and out of the trunk. Again inside the garage. On at least one occasion, the body was transported to the backyard, probably via the side garage door, the gate, along the North side of the house to the Pool Area, and the Play Area, before being returned by the reverse route to the garage and the trunk. Probably wrapped in Pooh blanket and placed in a laundry bag early on, and only finally sealed in a black plastic rubbish bag, (with as yet not revealed colour ties), and placed pen ultimately in the trunk. The final act of dumping the body was played out soon after leaving the Anthony garage with the body thusly prepared (20thJune), or after one of two subsequent visits to the Anthony home by KC on 23rd and 24th June 2008.

I think it is important to stress:
The Garage with Laundry set up, is a place you are likely to find:

1. Duct Tape

2. Laundry Bag

3. Black Plastic Garbage Bag.

4. Complete Privacy (Nefarious Deeds, for the use of doing)

5. All maner of Cleaning Products and Chemicals. (Chloroform, for the unwitting creation of)

Hello, I'm new here and this is my first post - so bear with me if anything I say may have been suggested elsewhere on the forum.

First of all, I don't think the death was premeditated - there is nothing to be gained from the death of her daughter, not even freedom actually as her mother & father would have jumped at the chance to get custody or adopt their granddaughter.

I think you are on the mark about the garage. According to the WS Calendar on June 25th "Casey tells Amy about the smell in her car; that maybe George ran over something when he used the car. (AH interview, pg. 16, line 21 through pg. 17, line 3)".

This got me thinking that perhaps Casey was getting some clothes and things together that afternoon (16th) to get away from her mom for a bit to let things settle down after their big blowup. And maybe she is stressing and freaking out and very emotional and not keeping track of her baby girl. And maybe she gets everything loaded in the trunk (laundry bags of clothes, garbage bags of stuff - some things maybe not belonging to her??) and hops in the car to leave... and runs over little Caylee while backing out.

Of course most people would call an ambulance asap, but we are talking about a thief and compulsive liar here, not a normal person. So she calls and calls her family members. When she can't get them, she places her inside what is handy in her trunk right there..... maybe she quickly buries her temporarily or places it somewhere in "Hiding" until she can figure out what to do.

Her life was like a house of cards and her mother was at an end with her at this point, she probably figured this would have been more than she could forgive her for, not to mention all of the lies would start crashing down and she might have to face some type of responsibility for her actions.

Her entire life was a lie, so it makes some kind of sick sense to just make up a kidnapping, and everything else ... building on the fantasy she'd been living for two years.

 

[Rumpole]

Hello, I'm new here and this is my first post - so bear with me if anything I say may have been suggested elsewhere on the forum.

First of all, I don't think the death was premeditated - there is nothing to be gained from the death of her daughter, not even freedom actually as her mother & father would have jumped at the chance to get custody or adopt their granddaughter.

I think you are on the mark about the garage. According to the WS Calendar on June 25th "Casey tells Amy about the smell in her car; that maybe George ran over something when he used the car. (AH interview, pg. 16, line 21 through pg. 17, line 3)".

This got me thinking that perhaps Casey was getting some clothes and things together that afternoon (16th) to get away from her mom for a bit to let things settle down after their big blowup. And maybe she is stressing and freaking out and very emotional and not keeping track of her baby girl. And maybe she gets everything loaded in the trunk (laundry bags of clothes, garbage bags of stuff - some things maybe not belonging to her??) and hops in the car to leave... and runs over little Caylee while backing out.

Of course most people would call an ambulance asap, but we are talking about a thief and compulsive liar here, not a normal person. So she calls and calls her family members. When she can't get them, she places her inside what is handy in her trunk right there..... maybe she quickly buries her temporarily or places it somewhere in "Hiding" until she can figure out what to do.

Her life was like a house of cards and her mother was at an end with her at this point, she probably figured this would have been more than she could forgive her for, not to mention all of the lies would start crashing down and she might have to face some type of responsibility for her actions.

Her entire life was a lie, so it makes some kind of sick sense to just make up a kidnapping, and everything else ... building on the fantasy she'd been living for two years.

Welcome along.

Beware I have not been here that long. It can be very addictive.

Your "running over" theory is very plausible. Not one I have seen before, so you have managed come up with a good possibility.
There are several other "accident" notions eg pool accident, left in hot car, over medicated etc.
What puts me off all of them is that KC would be in her element if she reported an accident. She could, and would, make up a story, certainly excusing herself, and blaming others. She could play the grieving Mom and injured party. I think in fact she killed Caylee in a rage and then contemplated staging an accident (eg in pool).
With all that has happened, I would have expected KC to own up to an accident by now?

 

[Shaymus at The Rock]

KC, out of character backed into the Garage 3 times

I think whatever the true details of “What Happened to Caylee” turn out to be, the most critical place involved is; inside the Anthony Garage with the main door closed. Early on either a dead Caylee was placed in the trunk of the Pontiac, or a live Caylee, gagged with duct tape, and possibly sedated was placed in the trunk. Either done inside the garage. Later, I have little doubt, Caylee’s body was moved in and out of the trunk. Again inside the garage. On at least one occasion, the body was transported to the backyard, probably via the side garage door, the gate, along the North side of the house to the Pool Area, and the Play Area, before being returned by the reverse route to the garage and the trunk. Probably wrapped in Pooh blanket and placed in a laundry bag early on, and only finally sealed in a black plastic rubbish bag, (with as yet not revealed colour ties), and placed pen ultimately in the trunk. The final act of dumping the body was played out soon after leaving the Anthony garage with the body thusly prepared (20thJune), or after one of two subsequent visits to the Anthony home by KC on 23rd and 24th June 2008.

I think it is important to stress:
The Garage with Laundry set up, is a place you are likely to find:

1. Duct Tape

2. Laundry Bag

3. Black Plastic Garbage Bag.

4. Complete Privacy (Nefarious Deeds, for the use of doing)

5. All maner of Cleaning Products and Chemicals. (Chloroform, for the unwitting creation of)

6. What appears to be big bin of heart stickers.

 

[itsyourworld]

Hello, I'm new here and this is my first post - so bear with me if anything I say may have been suggested elsewhere on the forum.

First of all, I don't think the death was premeditated - there is nothing to be gained from the death of her daughter, not even freedom actually as her mother & father would have jumped at the chance to get custody or adopt their granddaughter.

I think you are on the mark about the garage. According to the WS Calendar on June 25th "Casey tells Amy about the smell in her car; that maybe George ran over something when he used the car. (AH interview, pg. 16, line 21 through pg. 17, line 3)".

This got me thinking that perhaps Casey was getting some clothes and things together that afternoon (16th) to get away from her mom for a bit to let things settle down after their big blowup. And maybe she is stressing and freaking out and very emotional and not keeping track of her baby girl. And maybe she gets everything loaded in the trunk (laundry bags of clothes, garbage bags of stuff - some things maybe not belonging to her??) and hops in the car to leave... and runs over little Caylee while backing out.

Of course most people would call an ambulance asap, but we are talking about a thief and compulsive liar here, not a normal person. So she calls and calls her family members. When she can't get them, she places her inside what is handy in her trunk right there..... maybe she quickly buries her temporarily or places it somewhere in "Hiding" until she can figure out what to do.

Her life was like a house of cards and her mother was at an end with her at this point, she probably figured this would have been more than she could forgive her for, not to mention all of the lies would start crashing down and she might have to face some type of responsibility for her actions.

Her entire life was a lie, so it makes some kind of sick sense to just make up a kidnapping, and everything else ... building on the fantasy she'd been living for two years.

the only problem (hello and welcome!) with this theory is that according to the ME there was no antemortem trauma to the bones. surely hitting a small child with your car enough to kill them would cause trauma to the bones, if nothing else bruising in the brain box. but there was no trauma to the bone. someone else suggested that she was packing up the car with the door down and caylee was sleeping in the seat and she left the car running with the a/c going and caylee asphyxiated that way. one thing i know for sure is the possibilities are tragically endless as to how this young child lost her life.

 

[Meemom]

Hello, I'm new here and this is my first post - so bear with me if anything I say may have been suggested elsewhere on the forum.

First of all, I don't think the death was premeditated - there is nothing to be gained from the death of her daughter, not even freedom actually as her mother & father would have jumped at the chance to get custody or adopt their granddaughter.

I think you are on the mark about the garage. According to the WS Calendar on June 25th "Casey tells Amy about the smell in her car; that maybe George ran over something when he used the car. (AH interview, pg. 16, line 21 through pg. 17, line 3)".

This got me thinking that perhaps Casey was getting some clothes and things together that afternoon (16th) to get away from her mom for a bit to let things settle down after their big blowup. And maybe she is stressing and freaking out and very emotional and not keeping track of her baby girl. And maybe she gets everything loaded in the trunk (laundry bags of clothes, garbage bags of stuff - some things maybe not belonging to her??) and hops in the car to leave... and runs over little Caylee while backing out.

Of course most people would call an ambulance asap, but we are talking about a thief and compulsive liar here, not a normal person. So she calls and calls her family members. When she can't get them, she places her inside what is handy in her trunk right there..... maybe she quickly buries her temporarily or places it somewhere in "Hiding" until she can figure out what to do.

Her life was like a house of cards and her mother was at an end with her at this point, she probably figured this would have been more than she could forgive her for, not to mention all of the lies would start crashing down and she might have to face some type of responsibility for her actions.

Her entire life was a lie, so it makes some kind of sick sense to just make up a kidnapping, and everything else ... building on the fantasy she'd been living for two years.

Welcome!
I can't quite buy the auto accident theory, since the ME said no pre-death trauma to the bones....if KC ran over her by accident, I think the poor baby would have had multiple broken bones or head trauma that could have been seen.....JMO

 

[Rumpole]

6. What appears to be big bin of heart stickers.

Ah, the old bin of hearts in the garage?

Quite a find by the photo snoop!

Good background and links to a "heart" interest, but the hearts in that box do not look like "stickers". I am imagining something smaller, but no evidence for that.

 

[CarrieBean]

Without having 3 hands, it's almost impossible to cut duct tape with a knife.

Not if it's been stuck to something before cutting.