Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #4

[BondJamesBond]

Hey Bern,

I think what you are recalling is Cindy telling the operator what KC was wearing. There is no description in the 911 calls of what Caylee was wearing.

IIRC, wasn't it during the interview w/ Melich @ Universal. IIRC, that's where she said Caylee's hair was pulled back in a pony tail????

 

[Bev]

I think it more likely that she wore the "work clothes" to the boyfriend's house to maintain the fantasy. I believe that she gave that baby some otc drug, the baby vomited, it wen into her lungs and she "drowned". She panicked when she found the baby dead, made the flurry of phone calls to her parents/etc and when they didn't answer, it gave her time to think of what it looked like and how she was going to explain it. She wrapped her up in the blanket, put her in the laundry bag and stuffed her up against the wheel well. I would imagine that at one point she laid the body down in the back yard and pulled the car into the garage.

 

[ibyoungr]

This is a screenprint of Casey's written statement to the police about what Caylee was wearing on the day she went missing:

 

[Marina2]

This is a screenprint of Casey's written statement to the police about what Caylee was wearing on the day she went missing:

Thank you. Do you know if this matches what GA said she was wearing? I remember what he said KC had on but not Caylee.

 

[ibyoungr]

This is what the detectives found in the bag regarding clothing. It does not state the color of the shirt. The shirt in the Father's day video was a light blue or green. Remember.. they went swimming when they got home so.. the shirt on Caylee in the video was probably not the shirt she was in on the
16th of June or later in the day on the 15th.

**Warning graphical description**
I am sure the clothes were not "on" because as the tissue distengrated there were no more muscles left to hold the bones together. As the bones became detached...and the water from the flooding washed the bones apart from each other the clothing would have appeared to been "off" the body.
Sorry

 

[ibyoungr]

Thank you. Do you know if this matches what GA said she was wearing? I remember what he said KC had on but not Caylee.

Off to find George's statment.. BRB

 

[ibyoungr]

I found this in the last document dump.. this is evidence that they went to find at the house after the discovery. The snip is from the police document.

 

[StickPoint]

So, I'm going out on a limb here and theorizing myself. My thoughts are of course my own, and probably not that original...


I think Caylee was often sedated. The night of the 15th and the supposed fight, she took the child with her out of spite, but then realized she had plans that did not include her daughter. So she sedated her, and put her in the trunk so she could go and do as she pleased.
Upon returning some time later, the chloroform and whatever else she may have used took that child to another place from this earth.
However, KC didn't care enough about the child to see as it anything other than a "get out of jail free card" and went about her business.
Coming in the next few days, she worked it out in her head the story of what "could have" happened to her daughter. (Zani, kidnapping, etc, etc)
She wouldn't have gone to police cause she still would have been in trouble because of the sedatives, and neglect.

Again, I don't think she intentionally killed her but didn't care enough about her to report it, cause after all she is the number 1 in her book and it was all about preserving her life. If she did intentionally kill this child and this is all the forethought she had to the disposal of the body we are all giving her WAY too much credit and she belongs on the Darwin awards page... but I digress.

So the story, the tape, the sticker, all of it just speaks out to me that it may have happened this way.

 

[Skully]

CA was describing KC's clothes. If you listen again you'll hear the operator's next question is "Does she have any weapons?". They were talking about KC.

I stand corrected, I went back and that description is of what KC was wearing. Sorry

 

[Rumpole]

So do you believe Caylee was intentionally murdered?

Interesting theory, HP. I've long believed the backing into the garage was to try to clean the trunk, but since dirt was found in the trunk I'm wondering if she tried to clean it at all. Perhaps the backing in was, at first, to try to bury Caylee, then on the last day to gather the bags, the tape, and the sticker.

Not so much "Intentionally" , more "unthinkingly".

That is not ment to lessen the crime in any way whatsoever. I think KC was hyper angry and treated Caylee with no regard at all. Just an object. Taped and thrown in the trunk.
There was no "premeditation" as in a plan and getting equipment ready etc. Obviously no plan in place to dispose of a body or even explain Caylee's absense. The one sensible thing I can attribute to LP (to be fair, I do not see much of him at all), is his assessment that KC lives life from one 10min interval to the next.

 

[debs]

I agree, this interview with MF left me thinking, "huh?"
I also wonder. The 31 days seem so emphatic. It somewhat implies she was counting the days since the last time she saw Caylee. Counting as normal people do, this does put the date at June 14th. The only explanation I have been able to come up with is she wasn't counting the days, and she figured it had been about a month since she killed Caylee , mistakenly thought there were 31 days in June, and said the '31 days' to sound more dramatic.
As far as George, I don't believe he saw them on June 16th. I refer to it as 'he lied', but I don't know if it was all that nefarious. Let's face it, these people stuck to June 9th as the day Caylee went missing until the Father's Day video was found, and even then, there ended up being a spat between Cindy and Yuri, because Cindy wouldn't get on the ball and verify with her mother it was in fact June 15th. IMO, a person would think this distraught grandmother would, when reminded with the fact she visited her father on Father's Day with the missing child, at least look at a calender, and have a memory it was actually Father's Day, June 15th!!! But I digress... Because of them being so screwed up on the dates, I do think it's possible George remembers Casey and Caylee leaving on some day when he was watching the news/food channel, just not the day in question. It's also just as possible, because of the bizarre behavior by this family, he made the whole thing up.
JMO
Lanie

Lanie,

Don't you find it curious that Casey would be sitting at home on that Monday downloading a video onto her computer of an event where her daughter was reading a book to Papa? That book which many here think was found at the crime scene. The last person verified by a source other than the Anthony family to have had Caylee with her is Cindy. EVERYONE brought up June 9 until the video proved Caylee was alive on June 15. EVERYONE, including Granny Shirley.

Here's a theory for ya. How's about the weekend before June 9, Cindy and Casey have at a fight. Casey takes off without Caylee. We know from Tony that about the 9th she started staying there nearly every night, without Caylee. Cindy and George attempt to figure out how they're going to take care of Caylee. Cindy tells George that under no circumstances is he to let Casey into the house to see Caylee. She left, forget it. She doesn't get to keep messing things up. They struggle with the schedule that first week. Balancing their jobs with a toddler is pretty daunting, even if George doesn't have to go to work until 2 (to start at 3). Discovery docs in this last dump show that he was at work for 40 hours the week "ending" June 12 (Thursday to Thursday). It also was not unusual (according to Cindy's co-workers) for Caylee to be dropped off a couple times a week when Casey "was working" so the gaps COULD be filled with George dropping Caylee off at Cindy's work that week and Cindy simply telling people there that Casey dropped her off. Casey is off on her new adventure and the lies about work are now Tony's problem and the senior Anthony's are adjusting to their new routine.

We know Casey is in the house during that week (9-13) because of computer activity. I'm going to guess that Casey's feelings of "getting to know" George again after being distant for so long has everything to do with him bending the rules while Cindy is at work to allow Casey to come over. Casey gets to pretend that she's working while Tony is at school, and George gets to feel like he's important to Casey. It's a win/win, and Cindy can be in the dark. Though something must have triggered in her at least once, because in the jail house visits, at one point, Cindy asks Casey about things that were missing from the house. That ring, for instance. I'd bet money that Cindy took that from Casey at one point in a snit because it had been stolen or purchased with Cindy's money. Casey went searching for it and found it, and Cindy-the-hyper-vigilant noticed it was gone.



.................anyway, that's ONE theory of why the 9th was so memorable.

 

[Theonly1]

This is what the detectives found in the bag regarding clothing. It does not state the color of the shirt. The shirt in the Father's day video was a light blue or green. Remember.. they went swimming when they got home so.. the shirt on Caylee in the video was probably not the shirt she was in on the
16th of June or later in the day on the 15th.

**Warning graphical description**
I am sure the clothes were not "on" because as the tissue distengrated there were no more muscles left to hold the bones together. As the bones became detached...and the water from the flooding washed the bones apart from each other the clothing would have appeared to been "off" the body.
Sorry

Who said they went swimming? Answer: Cindy and/or George?

Ha!

I don't think they went swimming.

 

[BondJamesBond]

I found this in the last document dump.. this is evidence that they went to find at the house after the discovery. The snip is from the police document.

Oddly...I think that is the same description I thought George gave for the family friend seeing Caylee @ the mall ~6/12.

 

[Theonly1]

Oddly...I think that is the same description I thought George gave for the family friend seeing Caylee @ the mall ~6/12.

I know! I was just typing that.

I think it was one of Caylee's outfits, just not the one worn on the day of her death (just moo).

 

[BondJamesBond]

OT: Would be interested to hear if anyone that loves to peruse the Caylee pics has spotted any shirts w/ iron on letters...

 

[Stocirpa]

It recently occurred to me that Caylee's death on June 16, 2008 was precipitated by and was the logical consequence of a specific set of circumstances which neither Casey nor her parents were able to deal with in a mature and responsible manner: (1) When Casey's pregnancy was finally recognized by her parents in her seventh month, Casey informed her parents that she wanted to place the baby for adoption upon birth. (2) Cindy was adamant that she should keep the baby based on the premise that she and George would provide whatever supplemental childcare and financial support Casey would require. (3) While there can be little doubt that Casey, Cindy and George dearly loved Caylee, as time went by the burden of providing financial support became onerous to Cindy, since neither George nor Casey were regularly employed.
(4) As is her nature, Casey exploited her parents' generosity by failing to secure and maintain a full- or part-time job, by actively pursuing social activities and intimate relationships normally enjoyed by people who are single and by failing to ensure that Caylee was properly cared for at all times when she was in her custody. (5) As time went by, the care of Caylee became evermore problematic and burdensome to Casey, especially when she could not afford to pay a babysitter and when Cindy refused to provide babysitting services when Casey wanted to go partying in the evening. (6) While it is obvious that there was never a letup in Casey's evening social activities, heaven only knows where Caylee was kept when she was not physically in the care of her mother during the last few months of her extremely short life. Could she have been sedated with Chloroform and stashed away at some unknown location as suspected? Give me a break! There has never been a "Zanny the Nanny" any more than there has ever been a "tooth fairy." Casey preferred to live in a fantasy world, presenting a happy-go-lucky exterior personality to the outside world while, at the same time, continuously lying to and stealing from her family, friends and others. (8) Cindy consistently played an unwitting role in supporting Casey's negative behavior and actions by not only buying into the tall tales Casey told her but by actually coddling her at times when she should have been berating her. (7) Cindy's built-up anger and resentment towards Casey reached its boiling point on June 15, 2008 when a loud and violent verbal and physical altercation erupted between them which culminated in Cindy actually putting her hands around Casey's throat.

It was no mere coincidence that Casey chose to murder Caylee the next day, on June 16, 2008. Subsequent to the internet research she had conducted in March 2008, Casey had already carefully planned and scripted the murder of Caylee and had actually implemented or was about to implement the many critical components of that plan that she felt would support her script. Casey also knew exactly how she would murder Caylee although she had not as yet determined the date on which she would do so. While Casey surely recognized that her regular routine of sedating Caylee with Chloroform and stashing her away some place when her presence was not desired was not a permanent solution, she just as surely recognized that having her mother care for Caylee was no solution either as it generally resulted in her being subjected to Cindy's emotional tirades. Had Caylee's murder not been pre-planned prior to June 16, 2008, I do not believe her murder would have occurred on that date or on any subsequent date. It was the fact that Casey already had a murder plan and script in place on June 16, 2008 that provided the impetus for her to carry out her murder plan in the clearly evil, emotionally detached and deliberate manner in which she did. If truth be known, Casey honestly believed that her "unbelievable" script would entitle her to a "Get Home Free" card from her parents, law enforcement and the world at large.

The senseless murder of two-year-old Caylee Marie Anthony, which has so outraged and distressed her grandparents, relatives and the citizens of this country demands JUSTICE and, as far as I am concerned, a court verdict of GUILTY BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT!

 

[BondJamesBond]

FWIW...

Have been taking a focused look @ 6/16 pings on that thread in the Sticky Forum to support/debunk the purpose of the "flurry" calls that afternoon. I'm concluding that these calls were indeed an attempt to establish Caylee-Care w/ Cindy by dropping Caylee @ Gentiva that afternoon as Casey had often done before.

Back on 11/20, a now-inactive WS, Joyce, commented on a "stall" in the trip to Tony's that afternoon (6/16). We briefly discussed the possibility of the "stall" being involved w/ sedating Caylee, and the repeated attempts to reach Cindy, and ultimately Amy that night were last-ditch efforts...and then we moved on.

Today, I'm snipping the following from discussion w/ JWG over on the 6/16 thread as it relates to this Theory...

...consistent with 10-minute-at-time-Caseythink...since Casey was attempting to establish Caylee-care while on her way to Tony's...it means she didn't have the OTC she needed to sedate Caylee with her...

....soo....

IF we'd had the ping info immediately when the case broke and could’ve ciphered it down to this point quickly...I would’ve marched LE over to collect security surveillance video of Casey buying the d@mn OTC’s @ one of the two pharmacies located well-within the ping locations @ 4:25PM during the break after Casey’s last call to Cindy’s cell prior to showing up near Tony’s:

CVS @ 7451 East Colonial Drive (same intersection as Amscot)
Walgreens @ 7325 Gatehouse Cir, Orlando​

However, w/ surveil videos likely not kept longer than 30 days...Grrrrrr… perhaps this was among the receipts that were turned over to JB early in the case. If not paid in cash...perhaps a check or credit card transaction that has been traced. rayer:

Joyce...wherever you are...nice work! :thumb:

 

[wallflower67]

Two thoughts....

RE: Chloroform in the trunk

It was generally discussed in the early stages of the case upon the release of forensics supporting an elevated level of chloroform that stain removers, etc. utilize chloroform. More recently another poster suggested, yet I haven't seen much else of it...BOTH the elevated level of chloroform in the trunk AND at least one of the cadaver dog alerts in the backyard would possibly be explained by Cindy using her Bissel steam cleaner and some spot remover on the trunk. That poster suggested Cindy dumped the resulting water in the backyard, hence, the cadaver dog alert. I am liking this proposal more & more over time. I'd add to it that IIRC, the portion of the trunk that was stained was the removable mat over the spare tire, hence, the whole mat may have been taken to the backyard and cleaned there. As JWG has offered in the computer forensic search, chloroform searches on the PC in March may have been completely unrelated...just maybe...

This opens things up more for the use of other medications resulting in the o.d. of Caylee. Sadly, owing to the slow-acting nature of the OTC's Casey might've been accustomed to using...Casey may have applied the more-is-better principle since she would've been trying to be covert about Caylee being in the car. Furthermore, if Caylee was just drowsey...and not 'knocked out' by the Rx...the duct tape with the heart sticker may have come into play to enable Casey to get back to the apartment before her protracted absence became suspicious. As another poster suggested...the heart sticker made light of the situation and helped Casey forgive whatever guilt she might've felt, even if ever-so-briefly, for her actions. If Casey had been smokin'/drinkin' that afternoon and in a hurry to get back to the apartment...obviously exercising ueber-grossly poor judgement and negligent behavior...the tape getting caught in the hair would just be a detail she'd handle later...I mean...it is 10-min-@-time-Casey, right?!?

FWIW, IF...big IF...as she commented to Amy in texts, Casey had a bruised rib in May whilst she had the flu/cold. Casey commented to Amy 5/21 about having anti-inflammatory Rx to treat the flu & bruised rib, "Works for me! I'm not feeling worse. Found out I have a bruised rib. At least I have nice pills for my flu and I’ll be popping anti-inflammatories like there’s no tomorrow.". So...who knows what Rx Casey had in her purse. If she'd used OTC's to speed/extend Caylee's naps...maybe she just upped the ante w/ her own Rx on a spur of the moment decision when her 'flurry' of calls finally failed...7:20PM.
​

RE: Casey-think factoring into a few things...(e.g. the duct tape in hair, "spiteful b*tch", revenge/victim motivating her hasty/poor decisions)

Recommend watching the last released August Casey w/ G&C jailhouse video again...and the ramp up between Casey & Cindy. Cindy forces an issue => Casey's defense/distract/deflect mechanism kicks in...and Casey immediately becomes the victim..her actions are justified in her own way of thinking because, after all, she's the victim and no one understands...:furious:

Now...replay that sequence of behavior considering the last call Casey made to Cindy 6/16 7:06 PM that lasted 1 min 24 seconds. Cindy forced the issue of Casey becoming responsible for her daughter that night => Casey's actions become justified in her own mind. Last ditch attempt to Amy 13mins later...perhaps after the last dose of Rx has already been given...just gonna drop a drowsy/sleeping Caylee of with her, right? No luck...and the furious Casey you saw in that jailhouse video pulls out the duct tape. The state of mind you saw in that video is the state of mind she was in when that duct tape was applied...she was effectively in a rage. :furious: The heart sticker, in effect, to relieve her own guilt...IOW...directing the thought @ Caylee...this is Cindy's fault...not mine...I [Casey] love you [Caylee].
​

Casey writes, "Diary of Days" directing the first half-to Cindy.
​

"On the worst of worst days...Remember the words spoken" = 6/16 7:06PM phone call. IOW...when you find out Caylee's gone, I [Casey] want you [Cindy] to remember that I [Casey] called you [Cindy] for help, and you[Cindy] refused to help me => This is your [Cindy's] fault...not mine [Casey's].

"With great power...comes great consequence"= You [Cindy] thought you had the power to control me [Casey] through Caylee. And see what happened! This is your [Cindy's] fault!

"What is given can be taken away" = I [Casey] have the power. I [Casey] gave you [Cindy] Caylee, and I [Casey] had the power to take her away.
​

The second verse, Casey directs to herself...
​

"On the worst of worst days...Remember the words spoken" = Remember...this is her [Cindy's] fault...not yours [Casey's]

"Hold your head high, smile, laugh...tomorrow is a brand new day" = Remember...this is her [Cindy's] fault...not yours [Casey's]. Keep your [Casey's] power over her [Cindy]. Enjoy your [Casey's] life...otherwise, Cindy will have the joy of seeing you suffer from your own actions...can't let that happen at all costs = No admission of guilt...ever.

Since, IMHO, this line of thinking was powerful enough to fuel the murder...its certainly powerful enough to keep Casey from ever admitting to the crime..and giving Cindy the final/last victory.
​

:clap:Great post. Makes perfect sense. That is kind of how I interpreted Diary of Days too.

 

[wallflower67]

It recently occurred to me that Caylee's death on June 16, 2008 was precipitated by and was the logical consequence of a specific set of circumstances which neither Casey nor her parents were able to deal with in a mature and responsible manner: (1) When Casey's pregnancy was finally recognized by her parents in her seventh month, Casey informed her parents that she wanted to place the baby for adoption upon birth. (2) Cindy was adamant that she should keep the baby based on the premise that she and George would provide whatever supplemental childcare and financial support Casey would require. (3) While there can be little doubt that Casey, Cindy and George dearly loved Caylee, as time went by the burden of providing financial support became onerous to Cindy, since neither George nor Casey were regularly employed.
(4) As is her nature, Casey exploited her parents' generosity by failing to secure and maintain a full- or part-time job, by actively pursuing social activities and intimate relationships normally enjoyed by people who are single and by failing to ensure that Caylee was properly cared for at all times when she was in her custody. (5) As time went by, the care of Caylee became evermore problematic and burdensome to Casey, especially when she could not afford to pay a babysitter and when Cindy refused to provide babysitting services when Casey wanted to go partying in the evening. (6) While it is obvious that there was never a letup in Casey's evening social activities, heaven only knows where Caylee was kept when she was not physically in the care of her mother during the last few months of her extremely short life. Could she have been sedated with Chloroform and stashed away at some unknown location as suspected? Give me a break! There has never been a "Zanny the Nanny" any more than there has ever been a "tooth fairy." Casey preferred to live in a fantasy world, presenting a happy-go-lucky exterior personality to the outside world while, at the same time, continuously lying to and stealing from her family, friends and others. (8) Cindy consistently played an unwitting role in supporting Casey's negative behavior and actions by not only buying into the tall tales Casey told her but by actually coddling her at times when she should have been berating her. (7) Cindy's built-up anger and resentment towards Casey reached its boiling point on June 15, 2008 when a loud and violent verbal and physical altercation erupted between them which culminated in Cindy actually putting her hands around Casey's throat.

It was no mere coincidence that Casey chose to murder Caylee the next day, on June 16, 2008. Subsequent to the internet research she had conducted in March 2008, Casey had already carefully planned and scripted the murder of Caylee and had actually implemented or was about to implement the many critical components of that plan that she felt would support her script. Casey also knew exactly how she would murder Caylee although she had not as yet determined the date on which she would do so. While Casey surely recognized that her regular routine of sedating Caylee with Chloroform and stashing her away some place when her presence was not desired was not a permanent solution, she just as surely recognized that having her mother care for Caylee was no solution either as it generally resulted in her being subjected to Cindy's emotional tirades. Had Caylee's murder not been pre-planned prior to June 16, 2008, I do not believe her murder would have occurred on that date or on any subsequent date. It was the fact that Casey already had a murder plan and script in place on June 16, 2008 that provided the impetus for her to carry out her murder plan in the clearly evil, emotionally detached and deliberate manner in which she did. If truth be known, Casey honestly believed that her "unbelievable" script would entitle her to a "Get Home Free" card from her parents, law enforcement and the world at large.

The senseless murder of two-year-old Caylee Marie Anthony, which has so outraged and distressed her grandparents, relatives and the citizens of this country demands JUSTICE and, as far as I am concerned, a court verdict of GUILTY BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT!

:clap: Another great post. You've said it all. I never have to post again!

 

[wallflower67]

It recently occurred to me that Caylee's death on June 16, 2008 was precipitated by and was the logical consequence of a specific set of circumstances which neither Casey nor her parents were able to deal with in a mature and responsible manner: (1) When Casey's pregnancy was finally recognized by her parents in her seventh month, Casey informed her parents that she wanted to place the baby for adoption upon birth. (2) Cindy was adamant that she should keep the baby based on the premise that she and George would provide whatever supplemental childcare and financial support Casey would require. (3) While there can be little doubt that Casey, Cindy and George dearly loved Caylee, as time went by the burden of providing financial support became onerous to Cindy, since neither George nor Casey were regularly employed.
(4) As is her nature, Casey exploited her parents' generosity by failing to secure and maintain a full- or part-time job, by actively pursuing social activities and intimate relationships normally enjoyed by people who are single and by failing to ensure that Caylee was properly cared for at all times when she was in her custody. (5) As time went by, the care of Caylee became evermore problematic and burdensome to Casey, especially when she could not afford to pay a babysitter and when Cindy refused to provide babysitting services when Casey wanted to go partying in the evening. (6) While it is obvious that there was never a letup in Casey's evening social activities, heaven only knows where Caylee was kept when she was not physically in the care of her mother during the last few months of her extremely short life. Could she have been sedated with Chloroform and stashed away at some unknown location as suspected? Give me a break! There has never been a "Zanny the Nanny" any more than there has ever been a "tooth fairy." Casey preferred to live in a fantasy world, presenting a happy-go-lucky exterior personality to the outside world while, at the same time, continuously lying to and stealing from her family, friends and others. (8) Cindy consistently played an unwitting role in supporting Casey's negative behavior and actions by not only buying into the tall tales Casey told her but by actually coddling her at times when she should have been berating her. (7) Cindy's built-up anger and resentment towards Casey reached its boiling point on June 15, 2008 when a loud and violent verbal and physical altercation erupted between them which culminated in Cindy actually putting her hands around Casey's throat.

It was no mere coincidence that Casey chose to murder Caylee the next day, on June 16, 2008. Subsequent to the internet research she had conducted in March 2008, Casey had already carefully planned and scripted the murder of Caylee and had actually implemented or was about to implement the many critical components of that plan that she felt would support her script. Casey also knew exactly how she would murder Caylee although she had not as yet determined the date on which she would do so. While Casey surely recognized that her regular routine of sedating Caylee with Chloroform and stashing her away some place when her presence was not desired was not a permanent solution, she just as surely recognized that having her mother care for Caylee was no solution either as it generally resulted in her being subjected to Cindy's emotional tirades. Had Caylee's murder not been pre-planned prior to June 16, 2008, I do not believe her murder would have occurred on that date or on any subsequent date. It was the fact that Casey already had a murder plan and script in place on June 16, 2008 that provided the impetus for her to carry out her murder plan in the clearly evil, emotionally detached and deliberate manner in which she did. If truth be known, Casey honestly believed that her "unbelievable" script would entitle her to a "Get Home Free" card from her parents, law enforcement and the world at large.

The senseless murder of two-year-old Caylee Marie Anthony, which has so outraged and distressed her grandparents, relatives and the citizens of this country demands JUSTICE and, as far as I am concerned, a court verdict of GUILTY BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT!

:clap: Another great post. You've said it all. I never have to post again!