Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #7

[logicalgirl]

I have just been reading legal rules in Florida for proving a capital felony murder punishable by death.

One of the "rules" is that the murder was cold, calculated and pre-meditated.

And here is where we may want to adjust our theories to get a conviction on this one.

Just looking at those three words, we think "of course" that is a slam dunk.

But......"Cold" is defined as an act NOT prompted by an emotional frenzy, panic or rage.

Comments? :waitasec:

 

[Solace]

Morning Ynot :seeya:

There is some truth in with ICA's lies...when she said it was 31 days since she last saw Caylee, she told detectives that June 16th, 2008 was the last time she saw Caylee alive and that the last person she saw her with was the nanny...we know the nanny is non existant, so it was SHE who last saw Caylee alive and that is the day Caylee's life ended, June 16th...

I believe more towards the end of June, more specifically by June 27, she texts AmyH, that she finally got rid of the smell...she claims it was road kill, something her father must have ran over...yet, she was the only one who had possession of that vehicle, for those 31 days..

She knows her street, that it probably is very desolate, not many cars come down, most work during the day, school in Florida is out by the the end of May, early June...so no students either...she found it perfect and also thought, she committed the perfect crime..but I still feel somehow, that the pool has something to do with Caylee's demise. JMHO

Justice for Caylee

If I understand you correctly, you belive she got rid of Caylee's body towards the end of June. HOWEVER, the flies found in the trunk are flies that are around at the very beginning of decomposition. Also, the heavy purging of the body did not start until after the 19th or the 19th. That is why the date of the dumping of the body is put at June 19th. she drove around with the bodyin her trunk for three days in the Florida heat. When the odor was too strong, she dumped the body.

 

[racegirl72]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbMPVJwpONI&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbMPVJwpONI&feature=related[/ame]

 

[wenwe4]

See that makes sense to me. The whole gas can story that GA told just didn't add up with me. I mean when he was telling the story about the car wedge and starting to go toward her car trunk to retrieve it, to me it was like he knew that the gas cans were in her trunk. She bolted past him and opened the trunk and retrieved the cans. However, he never mentioned that he saw anything or smelled anything in the trunk (however, KC didn't want him going anywhere near the trunk).

I'm with you, I think he smelled something too. I have always thought that.

I also agree with you that KC was taking Caylee away as emotional punishment and was doing it once again (which is why CA wrote that Myspace blog). But with GA smelling the trunk that day with KC, and then smelling the car again at the impound lot, that's why he said to himself "please don't let this be Caylee."

Well from his actions, he certainly wasn't after the tire wedges, or KC handing over the gas cans would not have been enough for him to leave her alone. (apparently it was because I never remember hearing that he actually did get the tire wedges from KC or that there were even in the car when LE impounded it). So, I believe he at least lied to KC about the tire wedges but he either believed she had the gas cans in the trunk or he was curious about something else in her trunk. If the gas can incident happened on the 24th, that would have been approximately 8 days after death and 5 or 6 after the body was removed from KC's trunk. I think the decomp smell would have been in full force by that time - although I haven't researched this issue.

 

[strach304]

Well from his actions, he certainly wasn't after the tire wedges, or KC handing over the gas cans would not have been enough for him to leave her alone. (apparently it was because I never remember hearing that he actually did get the tire wedges from KC or that there were even in the car when LE impounded it). So, I believe he at least lied to KC about the tire wedges but he either believed she had the gas cans in the trunk or he was curious about something else in her trunk. If the gas can incident happened on the 24th, that would have been approximately 8 days after death and 5 or 6 after the body was removed from KC's trunk. I think the decomp smell would have been in full force by that time - although I haven't researched this issue.

George did say he suspected Casey of taking the gas cans. He talked about it with LE. He said she had done it before. He told LE he used the car chocks as an excuse to see if she had the gas cans.

 

[katydid23]

I am confused about the timeline of the body in the trunk. [ hard to even type that when thinking of that beautiful baby.]

How long do people think she was left in the trunk? Did she go right from the resting place into the dumpsite?

I can't think of anyplace else she had to keep her other than her car trunk. But the smell must have become strong rather quickly in the heat of the summer.

This part confuses me and messes with my theory.

 

[Mystic]

I have just been reading legal rules in Florida for proving a capital felony murder punishable by death.

One of the "rules" is that the murder was cold, calculated and pre-meditated.

And here is where we may want to adjust our theories to get a conviction on this one.

Just looking at those three words, we think "of course" that is a slam dunk.

But......"Cold" is defined as an act NOT prompted by an emotional frenzy, panic or rage.

Comments? :waitasec:

I don't think she was in a frenzy or rage or that it was an accident cover up in the spur of the moment. It takes time to think this up and then get the duct tape, cut those strips and place them. :banghead: I don't think someone in a fit of rage or panic comes up with that many steps. Thats why I think she had already planned how she was going to end any chance of CA getting Caylee. Maybe I'm wrong and but I can't even imagine a person doing that without planning it out. So I think SA will have to relay that in some way to the jury. jmo

 

[pip]

I am confused about the timeline of the body in the trunk. [ hard to even type that when thinking of that beautiful baby.]

How long do people think she was left in the trunk? Did she go right from the resting place into the dumpsite?

I can't think of anyplace else she had to keep her other than her car trunk. But the smell must have become strong rather quickly in the heat of the summer.

This part confuses me and messes with my theory.

My gut says she was in the trunk the whole time and then to the woods, but I can't figure out why the cadaver dogs hit in the backyard. I personally think she borrowed the shovel and was going to bury her in the yard but changed her mind. I would think she would dig a hole before removing the body from the trunk in case anyone came, so it's hard to figure she had the body in the backyard at all, since she didn't dig a hole. It's mind boggling trying to fit the scenario together.

 

[katydid23]

My gut says she was in the trunk the whole time and then to the woods, but I can't figure out why the cadaver dogs hit in the backyard. I personally think she borrowed the shovel and was going to bury her in the yard but changed her mind. I would think she would dig a hole before removing the body from the trunk in case anyone came, so it's hard to figure she had the body in the backyard at all, since she didn't dig a hole. It's mind boggling trying to fit the scenario together.

I think the cadaver dogs hit in the yard because I think she may have died in the yard. I think she MAY have drowned in the pool. Maybe not by accident.
I think that happened when she doubled back to the house after George left for work on the 16th.

I think she decided against burying her there because the dogs were sniffing around the body so much.

 

[pip]

I think the cadaver dogs hit in the yard because I think she may have died in the yard. I think she MAY have drowned in the pool. Maybe not by accident.
I think that happened when she doubled back to the house after George left for work on the 16th.

I think she decided against burying her there because the dogs were sniffing around the body so much.

This has probably been discussed over and over, but how long does someone have to be dead before a scent is given for a cadaver dog?

 

[angeldust]

I think the cadaver dogs hit in the yard because I think she may have died in the yard. I think she MAY have drowned in the pool. Maybe not by accident.
I think that happened when she doubled back to the house after George left for work on the 16th.

I think she decided against burying her there because the dogs were sniffing around the body so much.

me too, well i dont think caylee drowned but i just dont buy into her going to bury caylee in the back garden. The anthonys have dogs do they not they would definately have put paid to any ideas of hiding the body there for days so its the trunk of the car then the woods for me . The dogs would have been all over that like a rash, and no, I dont think they would need any kind of special LE training to bring mom and pops attention to the baby if she were in the garden.

x moo

 

[pip]

me too, well i dont think caylee drowned but i just dont buy into her going to bury caylee in the back garden. The anthonys have dogs do they not they would definately have put paid to any ideas of hiding the body there for days so its the trunk of the car then the woods for me . The dogs would have been all over that like a rash, and no, I dont think they would need any kind of special LE training to bring mom and pops attention to the baby if she were in the garden.

x moo

She may not have been thinking rationally when she first set out to do it, but then the obvious reasons not to finally occurred to her so she didn't? It's possible. Despite being a 'spiteful biotch', I can see her having moments of sheer panic and irrational thinking in dealing with this situation. She could not have been cool as a cucumber throughout, imo.

 

[shaye]

Yeppers, agree 100%, but how many times has she stolen gas that we are NOT aware of? Just goes back to show why she didn't have a key to the shed, hence the reason she had to borrow one.

Exactly but I wonder if George had a key to KC's car?!? If I'm not mistaken he told LE he did when discussing the can incident w/them. If George suspected the cans were in the car and he was trying to catch KC lying, you would think he would of just went out to the car and looked while she was in her room instead of alerting her that he needed in the car w/that bs story about the tire wedge....that's never made sense to me but then again, there's not too much that does make sense about the Anthony's. :banghead:

 

[logicalgirl]

I don't think she was in a frenzy or rage or that it was an accident cover up in the spur of the moment. It takes time to think this up and then get the duct tape, cut those strips and place them. :banghead: I don't think someone in a fit of rage or panic comes up with that many steps. Thats why I think she had already planned how she was going to end any chance of CA getting Caylee. Maybe I'm wrong and but I can't even imagine a person doing that without planning it out. So I think SA will have to relay that in some way to the jury. jmo

Oh Mystic I feel certain they will be able to do that! I had just never actually realized what "cold, calculated and pre-meditated" mean legally. I was quite shocked and thought I would bring it to the thread as something to explore is all.

I think probably Ashton will actually go through some kind of a demo to show how long it takes to do that, piece by piece. I wasn't trying to say it was a problem, just that in various threads it's been discussed quite a bit about ICA being in "a rage" is all......I wanted to see if we could easily picture ICA doing this crime coldly and calmly.

 

[ZsaZsa]

Exactly but I wonder if George had a key to KC's car?!? If I'm not mistaken he told LE he did when discussing the can incident w/them. If George suspected the cans were in the car and he was trying to catch KC lying, you would think he would of just went out to the car and looked while she was in her room instead of alerting her that he needed in the car w/that bs story about the tire wedge....that's never made sense to me but then again, there's not too much that does make sense about the Anthony's. :banghead:

I think it was just a little Anthony game playing at work... he was enjoying her panic at the thought he was going to get into the car. He was determined he would get there first! At that time I don't think he knew the extent of her fears, but thought it was just ICA being ICA, lying lying lying... and he was going to outwit her.

 

[strawberry]

Oh Mystic I feel certain they will be able to do that! I had just never actually realized what "cold, calculated and pre-meditated" mean legally. I was quite shocked and thought I would bring it to the thread as something to explore is all.

I think probably Ashton will actually go through some kind of a demo to show how long it takes to do that, piece by piece. I wasn't trying to say it was a problem, just that in various threads it's been discussed quite a bit about ICA being in "a rage" is all......I wanted to see if we could easily picture ICA doing this crime coldly and calmly.

Another irony! CA adamantly denying there was a fight so (IMO) fingers would not be pointed as that for a motive, yet that would have mitigated the cold, calculated aspect. Cindy, cindy, cindy.

 

[Mystic]

Oh Mystic I feel certain they will be able to do that! I had just never actually realized what "cold, calculated and pre-meditated" mean legally. I was quite shocked and thought I would bring it to the thread as something to explore is all.

I think probably Ashton will actually go through some kind of a demo to show how long it takes to do that, piece by piece. I wasn't trying to say it was a problem, just that in various threads it's been discussed quite a bit about ICA being in "a rage" is all......I wanted to see if we could easily picture ICA doing this crime coldly and calmly.

I'm sorry logical, I don't post often enough and couldn't even get the smiley in the right place LOL I really liked that you brought this up to explore. Since I've felt although ICA may have been enraged with CA and the circumstances on the 15th.. that in committing the crime she was not in a frenzy at all. Rage in the spur of the moment would be shaking her, smacking, throwing etc... but a whole night had passed and the process of getting duct tape changes how I view her state of mind... and then off to rent a movie. I agree with discussing this. thx's

 

[angeldust]

She may not have been thinking rationally when she first set out to do it, but then the obvious reasons not to finally occurred to her so she didn't? It's possible. Despite being a 'spiteful biotch', I can see her having moments of sheer panic and irrational thinking in dealing with this situation. She could not have been cool as a cucumber throughout, imo.

PIP

Im not sayin she didnt think about it but mo is that only an idiot would try to hide their dead daughter in their own back yard for days (not an hour so a odour could be left) their own dogs would have been on top of that.. Plus the garden isnt acres in size so caylee would have been noticed. she may have laid that baby down in the back thinking bury her here but soon realised this wouldnt be possible hense why the smell and the dogs alerting but i just cant swallow that she was there for days no siree x

she may have had moments of panic like the flurry of phone call she made on the 16th its my opinion that they were made so that she was sure no one would be coming home to catch her NOT to get a baby sitter im of the opinion thats when that poor baby met her maker and she didnt want anyone popping home (remember no shoes). I hope im making myself clear i have a problem putting my brain in gear at times i think its like youve said or did something (obviously not murder) and your hoping noone finds out you call see how the lands lies so to speak.

I also think GA is going to be the fall guy re suicide attempts and now JB asking him on the stand would he stay away from court to save his daughter even if he was ordered to, or words to this effect. his lovely daughter stating that she thinks maybe her mom or dad has done something oh after the abuse allegations, I can see whats coming here ga looks as if hes on the edge . KC is diabolical .

 

[pip]

PIP

Im not sayin she didnt think about it but mo is that only an idiot would try to hide their dead daughter in their own back yard for days (not an hour so a odour could be left) their own dogs would have been on top of that.. Plus the garden isnt acres in size so caylee would have been noticed. she may have laid that baby down in the back thinking bury her here but soon realised this wouldnt be possible hense why the smell and the dogs alerting but i just cant swallow that she was there for days no siree x

she may have had moments of panic like the flurry of phone call she made on the 16th its my opinion that they were made so that she was sure no one would be coming home to catch her NOT to get a baby sitter im of the opinion thats when that poor baby met her maker and she didnt want anyone popping home (remember no shoes). I hope im making myself clear i have a problem putting my brain in gear at times i think its like youve said or did something (obviously not murder) and your hoping noone finds out you call see how the lands lies so to speak.

I also think GA is going to be the fall guy re suicide attempts and now JB asking him on the stand would he stay away from court to save his daughter even if he was ordered to, or words to this effect. his lovely daughter stating that she thinks maybe her mom or dad has done something oh after the abuse allegations, I can see whats coming here ga looks as if hes on the edge . KC is diabolical .

I understand. I was just thinking that even if she had the fleeting, irrational thought of burying her in the backyard, she would likely keep the body safely hidden away in the trunk until the hole was ready, not just lying in the yard until she was ready. I don't think she was in the backyard at all. Maybe she had to use the hose to clean something or herself after the disposal, leaving the decomp scent in the yard? Maybe Cindy contaminated something in the yard when cleaning out the trunk? Did she set items out there to air out because they stunk? So many what ifs..
ETA:
Since my theory is that Caylee did not die at home, I think she was in the trunk for some time without the garbage bags and canvas bag. I think that is when the child's outline occurred in the trunk liner staining and then she pulled the car into the garage on one of the occasions (18th maybe? when BB saw her) to put Caylee in the bags. It would have been messy so she perhaps had to wash herself out in the back with the garden hose? Possible.

 

[Tulessa]

This has probably been discussed over and over, but how long does someone have to be dead before a scent is given for a cadaver dog?

Very interesting article.

http://www.blurtit.com/q816259.html

OK now you have to understand that the information that is inserted here is fact and from personal experience, I was a navy seal for 20 years, which included 5 wars. Viet-nam,panama,beruit,gernada,and desert storm, and now I am a bail enforcement agent, and work with FBI,Marshals, SWAT teams, when the dogs are brought in to search for a cadaveor that is or isn't buried. What people don't realize is that the dog in question has a pouch around their collar that has the scent of a dead person, so the dog is smelling this all the time, then when the dog is taken to the area where the body is aledged to be just before the dog is released the pouch is removed and the dog is then told to "seek". Now the dog is trying to find that scent that it had around his collar, and as sensitive as dogs noses are they will pick up the cadavers scent 9 out of 99.9 times. It's the same thing with drug sniffing dogs,the pouch the scent the removal of pouch and dog picks up scent and your BUSTED. When the body in question starts to decompose, in about 3 to 5 minutes, depending on temperature, cause of death, if the body has any open wounds where airborn pathogens can infiltrate the tissues, internal organs, due to exposure