Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #8

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New1,

I agree with a lot of your scenario. I would make a few slight alterations in my version though. I don't think her phone calls to Cindy were for 'help.' I think they were to make certain Cindy was not on her way home yet.

I also wonder about the body in the sandbox theory. There are two Yorkies who went out in that yard all of the time. I know that my dogs would go nuts if a baby was buried somewhere in their yard. Especially their baby. Dogs are smart like that.

In my mind, the child drowned. But it was on purpose, imo. Casey put the ladder up, and went in the house and waited. Easy as pie.
 
I believe a lot of your theory. Caylee died on the night of the 15th or early am 16th. She put her in the sandbox. I don't think she put her in the trunk yet. She ran to Tony's.

I don't think caylee drowned and I do think she had plans of hoping something would happen to Caylee since March 2008. She smothered her while on the phone w/tony...perhaps by placing the duct tape on her so she could talk to him. Her chatting with him went on for eight hours (minimal). She was angry because she couldn't go back to tony's that night and wanted to be in his bed with him. cindy messed up her plans by not wanting to babysit. The next day after GA left she placed Caylee in the sandbox, playhouse or pool box.

On the 17th, She stil hadn't picked up Caylee yet from the yard location. She would call home to make sure the family were not in the backyard. The weather helped because it was drizzling. On the 17th, she borrowed tony's car and visited her friend (?guy) and later went to Blanchard Park to think. She sat there for a few hours.

On the 18th, she grabbed Caylee out of the sandbox and put her in the trunk..this is when the leakage occurred. She placed her in the black bags. She grabbed a laundry bin and put the black bags in the bin and covered the bags with some clothes. She feigned running out of gas. She got some gas with tl's help and he wasn't allowed to help her put the gas in. She placed the cans in the back herself...leaving some gas in them. She may or may not have followed TL at this point. She may have deposited Caylee on Suburban at this point. Later she would use some gas to pour on the stain to diffuse the smell. It only worked for a little while.

She didn't want to drive this car and it was getting to be more of a problem. She was making up all kind of excuses to not drive it. She was calling on friends to get her gas, etc. When TL left for NY, she was relieved, she now had wheels. She parked her car near the dumpster so the smell would be compromised as being from the garbage. She even left a bag of trash in there so people would know if they passed by.

She didn't have a plan for the car and in typical fashion ran around talking to friends, knowing her time was running out. She must have forgotten Amy's personal papers in her binder/purse. She was glad to be driving tony's car and very proud to do so. (w/o his permission)

I don't believe this was an accident. I think she was hoping that Caylee would leave the earth somehow eventually. She was happy she was gone. Casey's grandmother summed it up when she said, "Casey hated her mother more than she loved Caylee". Casey is full of deviant pathology and is determined to get what she wants, at any cost.
 
One scenario I have considered is that the flurry of calls to cindy after 5 could have been last ditch efforts to get her to watch Caylee that night. I believe FCA was determined to go to TL and that Caylee's death could have occurred after not getting ahold of anyone. I believe there was 1 or 2 calls to GA and also to JG.
 
It does seem that whichever theory anyone comes up with, there are still puzzle pieces that don't fit the puzzle. If she did plan out the murder it would explain how she could be so disconnected after only a few hours. She would have gotten used to the idea long before the actual murder.

KC might have made all those phone calls to check that CA and GA were still at work and not planning to return home early. But why would she actually murder Caylee right there in the home? She could have done it someplace off the beaten path where she'd have plenty of time to kill, and then dispose of the body. It just doesn't seem planned out well at all. Everything she did after Caylee's death seems like she was flying by the seat of her pants.

I recently rescued a feral kitten hoping to rehabilitate it for adoption. Most ferals live a miserable life and wind up starving to death, plus Animal Control was in the process of trapping and killing all the feral cats at a particular trailer park. I was told by a resident that this kitten was sick already, but it started choking, or something, and died right in front of my eyes within 2 days. I was a mental wreck while this was happening. I became almost hysterical and even tried to give it mouth-to-mouth resuscitation. I cried on and off for the next few hours.

I can't imagine anyone being able to kill another human being, yet of course it actually does happen. Not being able to wrap my head around the idea of a sociopath is the reason I've always been interested in this type of crime.

I never saw any diary entries. Where did you find this one? Was it originally found at the Anthony's home? I wonder why the PT didn't use this or other entries during the trial.

I agree that there are pieces that don't fit with any scenario we've discussed. But the only puzzle piece that doesn't fit with murder, in my eyes, is the flurry of calls. However, just because KC made those calls doesn't scream "accident" to me. Her behavior in the weeks afterward scream "I'm so glad she's gone".

Is there proof that Caylee was murdered in the home? Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's no proof of where she went between the time she left the house to when she was seen at Blockbuster. The only evidence we can go by is her phone pings, which put her in the area of her home.
 
I think that KC took Caylee to a party or mans' house at some point and did her usual chloroform activity so Caylee would sleep and had done it before. This time she realized she hadn't woken up. I think she already knew that she would use the babysitter story by leaning over the counter to get the zenaida name, wait and brush her mother off as long as possible so the body would decompose and put the tape so it would look like a kidnapping and murder. In court, the prosecution said why anyone would want an accident to look like a murder...in fact that's exactly IMO what happened and what she wanted. I believe that the baby was in her trunk for days before her final destination. I believe she panicked and put her in the backyard at first and then made those calls because she had to go get her. There is always some truth in a narcissist lies because they make the gravest error with their pattern of turning the truth around and blaming someone else for it: Kronk moved the body?? Why did that need to come up if the defenses case wasnt based on that? No SHE moved the body and wanted to cover it up just in case etc.......She knew that if she called 911 when her daughter died of an overdose induced by her, she would be in prison the rest of her life, so now she calls it an "accident" , believes it was an accident and not her fault and didn't mean to kill her....
 
I agree that there are pieces that don't fit with any scenario we've discussed. But the only puzzle piece that doesn't fit with murder, in my eyes, is the flurry of calls. However, just because KC made those calls doesn't scream "accident" to me. Her behavior in the weeks afterward scream "I'm so glad she's gone".

Is there proof that Caylee was murdered in the home? Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's no proof of where she went between the time she left the house to when she was seen at Blockbuster. The only evidence we can go by is her phone pings, which put her in the area of her home.

The two cadaver dog hits near the sand box/playhouse area is pretty strong proof to me that Caylee was buried there long enough to start to decompose. There was no hit by the dogs INSIDE the house, so I believe that Caylee died and began to decompose in that back yard. JMO
 
The two cadaver dog hits near the sand box/playhouse area is pretty strong proof to me that Caylee was buried there long enough to start to decompose. There was no hit by the dogs INSIDE the house, so I believe that Caylee died and began to decompose in that back yard. JMO

She could have died in the car, and her body was laid in the back yard when KC borrowed the shovel and thought about burying her back there.
 
I think that KC took Caylee to a party or mans' house at some point and did her usual chloroform activity so Caylee would sleep and had done it before. This time she realized she hadn't woken up. I think she already knew that she would use the babysitter story by leaning over the counter to get the zenaida name, wait and brush her mother off as long as possible so the body would decompose and put the tape so it would look like a kidnapping and murder. In court, the prosecution said why anyone would want an accident to look like a murder...in fact that's exactly IMO what happened and what she wanted. I believe that the baby was in her trunk for days before her final destination. I believe she panicked and put her in the backyard at first and then made those calls because she had to go get her. There is always some truth in a narcissist lies because they make the gravest error with their pattern of turning the truth around and blaming someone else for it: Kronk moved the body?? Why did that need to come up if the defenses case wasnt based on that? No SHE moved the body and wanted to cover it up just in case etc.......She knew that if she called 911 when her daughter died of an overdose induced by her, she would be in prison the rest of her life, so now she calls it an "accident" , believes it was an accident and not her fault and didn't mean to kill her....

IMO, applying the tape around the mouth to look like a murder doesn't fly because she also applied a heart-shaped sticker to the tape. What other killer would do that?
 
IMO, applying the tape around the mouth to look like a murder doesn't fly because she also applied a heart-shaped sticker to the tape. What other killer would do that?

They have said that it is common for mothers who kill their children to bury them very close to them and leave a "token" of their guilt so they can live with themselves and do it solely based on their subconcious. I really don't think she felt it would be an issue and apparently, it wasn't.
 
I'm beginning to think that the only way the truth will ever come out is if KC gets really drunk one night and spills the beans. OR--what if someone administered sodium pentothal to her? I did 84 searches found that drs. use it to totally relax psych patients and get them to talk! Didn't find a way to manufacture it in the kitchen, though
 
My opinion ... Had Caylee drowned, Casey would have been calling 911 herself (after she verified Caylee had no pulse) and doing purposefully carppy CPR on Caylee whilst waiting for first responders to arrive. It would have solved the whole 'Caylee's a total buzzkill to my lifestyle' problem AND it would make FCA a perfect, tragic victim. The heartbroken mom. She'd know that Mom and Dad would be devastated for a little bit ... but it was an accident ... and Casey would milk the situation for all it's worth, both with all the attention (a fancy funeral and the focus will be MEEEEEE!) and with the "I can't work! It's only been 11 years! I'm still mourning!"

And Daddy wasn't complicit. Casey has no problem throwing anyone under the bus. Least of all her father. Why would she wait three years to throw him under the bus? As soon as she got arrested, she would have screamed, "It WAS an accident and Daddy made me throw her away! Bad Daddy! _enis in my mouth! Lee! Boobies! Heeeeeeelp me!"

And IMO, I think the only incest that *maybe* had happened in the past was some hinky consensual brother/sister experimentation that Casey may have actually instigated in order to have something to hold over Lee's head. George seems easily cowed by the women in his life. Between him and Casey, I see George as Casey's victim.

I'm on board with the state's theory. Although I do think there was a Cindy/ Casey altercation the night before (which lead to Casey acting in a rage) and I do think George is full of poo on seeing Casey/Caylee the next day. :twocents:

A side note: I like to imagine that today Casey was flipping between Fox And CNN, horns pulsating in her forehead and saying, "Who cares about the stupid debt ceiling? Talk about MEEEEE!"



BBM - I have to agree with you wholeheartedly !

If FCA WANTED Caylee GONE, then the pool drowning was the BEST scapegoat! She would have been a grieving mother and victim and in the clear. So if there EVER WAS a drowning, that is how Caylee would have been found, drown, in the pool or beside it, 911 would have been called.

But she didn't drown. ALL evidence points to the fact the FCA was stuck with a body she WASNT prepared to deal with.

I think she put Caylee in the trunk, duct taped her face and left her there while she went to rent movies with TonE. It's possible that there was only going to be ONE piece of duct tape just to keep her quiet but Caylee was likely fighting and crying and more tape was needed, hence 3. If Caylee was kicking and screaming, that would have pissed FCA off and she could have been enraged at Caylee at the time. In the trunk she goes, because, after the flurry of phone calls to find a sitter to no avail, FCA was NOT missing out on her date night with TonE.

I figure, FCA is dumb enough to think that Caylee would just sleep in the trunk for a few hours while she is with TonE and she will just take her out after the movie/makeout session is over. Except the Make out session never ended and FCA fell asleep late, leaving Caylee in the car for upwards of 16 hours, 3 pm - sometime the next day. This is when she now had a Dead body to deal with instead of just a child. The only place I waffle on this theory is whether she KNEW that leaving the baby in the trunk would kill her or not, Was it INTENTIONAL, or accidental. I lean towards accidental (stupidity) because of the body. As I mentioned, if FCA just wanted to be rid of Caylee and had been thinking about getting rid of her for a while, wouldn't the FAKED accidental drowning be the most logical way to do it. I mean, push her in your self? Let her walk up the ladder and just take it out and 5 mins later, no more toddler... But that's not what happened.

CASEY was stuck with an unexpected dead body. From that point on, everything is REACTIVE on her part. Her lies, the garbage bags, the laundry bag, all impulsive reactive actions. Even if FCA didnt use duct tape on Caylee in the trunk sitting incident, then the tape went on when the bags went on, because the tape was in the garage, with the bags.

But anyone who has been thinking about murdering their own child for months, will have enough stinking common sense to NOT dump her on the same danged street they live on. You might as well put a flag near her body with your name on it... Premeditation involves the END not just the means.. Anyone who is thinking about killing anyone, KNOWS that they will have to do something with the body eventually. and if you put enough THOUGHT into it, you will be smart enough to dump that body somewhere that no one will find it...
FCA dumped Caylee where she did because
A) she is a tiny weak woman and couldn't CARRY her much farther that 30 feet from the car. Hence the Laundry bag to make transportation easier.
b) She needed to dump her FAST to stifle the smell that was now putting a downer on the car/freedom thing.
c) She didnt put any thought into WHERE to hide her, it was entirely impulsive and she was distracted with Men and her own personal interests to put much more thought into what she was doing.

If you look at aerial shots of that area, near the school and the green space, there are MANY MANY more secluded areas that Caylee could have been dumped, but FCA was too busy, too lazy, and frankly, too stupid to bother.

I do think there was a point where she WANTED that body moved, and she was fishing for her brother to do it for her, and he was playing along with her, with no intention of actually MOVING Caylee, but instead FINDING her and putting her to rest. I think it was only AFTER FCA was arrested the first time that FCA finally stopped to think, holy crap she is so close to the house, they are bound to find her. But it wasnt until she was in jail. She thought she was in the clear.

I think, FCA thinks that people are very gullible and the physical size of the world is DISTORTED to her. The Real world is Distorted to her. She doesnt connect things like others do. So out of sight out of mind.... That's all there was to it, until she was locked up. Same thing with the car. She just LEAVES it in the amscot, no after thought about it other than, i need to get some gas. Until it goes missing.
 
They have said that it is common for mothers who kill their children to bury them very close to them and leave a "token" of their guilt so they can live with themselves and do it solely based on their subconcious. I really don't think she felt it would be an issue and apparently, it wasn't.

My point is, if it was an accident that KC was trying to make look like a murder, she would not have left that personal touch.
 
One scenario I have considered is that the flurry of calls to cindy after 5 could have been last ditch efforts to get her to watch Caylee that night. I believe FCA was determined to go to TL and that Caylee's death could have occurred after not getting ahold of anyone. I believe there was 1 or 2 calls to GA and also to JG.

Not after the big fight the night before. That's why Casey took Caylee - to get back at Cindy for choking her. She would have still been too angry at Cindy to ask her to babysit. IMO
 
I believe a lot of your theory. Caylee died on the night of the 15th or early am 16th. She put her in the sandbox. I don't think she put her in the trunk yet. She ran to Tony's.

I don't think caylee drowned and I do think she had plans of hoping something would happen to Caylee since March 2008. She smothered her while on the phone w/tony...perhaps by placing the duct tape on her so she could talk to him. Her chatting with him went on for eight hours (minimal). She was angry because she couldn't go back to tony's that night and wanted to be in his bed with him. cindy messed up her plans by not wanting to babysit. The next day after GA left she placed Caylee in the sandbox, playhouse or pool box.

On the 17th, She stil hadn't picked up Caylee yet from the yard location. She would call home to make sure the family were not in the backyard. The weather helped because it was drizzling. On the 17th, she borrowed tony's car and visited her friend (?guy) and later went to Blanchard Park to think. She sat there for a few hours.

On the 18th, she grabbed Caylee out of the sandbox and put her in the trunk..this is when the leakage occurred. She placed her in the black bags. She grabbed a laundry bin and put the black bags in the bin and covered the bags with some clothes. She feigned running out of gas. She got some gas with tl's help and he wasn't allowed to help her put the gas in. She placed the cans in the back herself...leaving some gas in them. She may or may not have followed TL at this point. She may have deposited Caylee on Suburban at this point. Later she would use some gas to pour on the stain to diffuse the smell. It only worked for a little while.

She didn't want to drive this car and it was getting to be more of a problem. She was making up all kind of excuses to not drive it. She was calling on friends to get her gas, etc. When TL left for NY, she was relieved, she now had wheels. She parked her car near the dumpster so the smell would be compromised as being from the garbage. She even left a bag of trash in there so people would know if they passed by.

She didn't have a plan for the car and in typical fashion ran around talking to friends, knowing her time was running out. She must have forgotten Amy's personal papers in her binder/purse. She was glad to be driving tony's car and very proud to do so. (w/o his permission)

I don't believe this was an accident. I think she was hoping that Caylee would leave the earth somehow eventually. She was happy she was gone. Casey's grandmother summed it up when she said, "Casey hated her mother more than she loved Caylee". Casey is full of deviant pathology and is determined to get what she wants, at any cost.

BBM If Caylee had been smothered in the house and kept there until the next day until George left for work THEN put in the sandbox, decomposition would have already started and the cavader dogs would have hit inside the house which they did not.
 
BBM If Caylee had been smothered in the house and kept there until the next day until George left for work THEN put in the sandbox, decomposition would have already started and the cavader dogs would have hit inside the house which they did not.

As I recall-the dogs were never taken inside the house.:waitasec:
 
There is some speculation that KC might have thought about burying Caylee in the back yard. How could that be done without looking obvious? That theory doesn't make sense to me. Any thoughts?
 
I think that KC took Caylee to a party or mans' house at some point and did her usual chloroform activity so Caylee would sleep and had done it before. This time she realized she hadn't woken up. I think she already knew that she would use the babysitter story by leaning over the counter to get the zenaida name, wait and brush her mother off as long as possible so the body would decompose and put the tape so it would look like a kidnapping and murder. In court, the prosecution said why anyone would want an accident to look like a murder...in fact that's exactly IMO what happened and what she wanted. I believe that the baby was in her trunk for days before her final destination. I believe she panicked and put her in the backyard at first and then made those calls because she had to go get her. There is always some truth in a narcissist lies because they make the gravest error with their pattern of turning the truth around and blaming someone else for it: Kronk moved the body?? Why did that need to come up if the defenses case wasnt based on that? No SHE moved the body and wanted to cover it up just in case etc.......She knew that if she called 911 when her daughter died of an overdose induced by her, she would be in prison the rest of her life, so now she calls it an "accident" , believes it was an accident and not her fault and didn't mean to kill her....


She didn't think of the kidnapping idea until Lee asked her what she was going to do when the police told her to take them to Caylee.
Lee said she got this look of terror on her face like she was thinking "now what am I going to do"" & it was only then she thought of & told Lee that Caylee was kidnapped. That tape was never placed on her face to look like a kidnapping, it was placed on there to kill her or atleast make sure she was never going to wake up.
 
BBM If Caylee had been smothered in the house and kept there until the next day until George left for work THEN put in the sandbox, decomposition would have already started and the cavader dogs would have hit inside the house which they did not.


I thought the dogs were never taken inside the house?
When I heard that I wondered why on earth not.
 
There is some speculation that KC might have thought about burying Caylee in the back yard. How could that be done without looking obvious? That theory doesn't make sense to me. Any thoughts?

Doesn't make sense....BUT, I don't really think CA was removing bamboo roots with the neighbor's shovel. She was freshly involved in a brand new realtionship. She went home...for clothes...and decides to remove a few roots while she's at it? Beats me...
 
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