Theories: Why Would Elizabeth kill Gabriel?

[BeanE]

I don't think that she was a "druggie" per se...however when "off their meds" many people turn to alcohol and/or drugs as a self remedy

there has been speculation that she was on drugs when arrested (way she looked)

getting dressed up and going out to ?? "Party"> ? when she hired the babysitter

I think we have read that she had "used' alcohol etc before
so maybe not so much drugs etc...but she wanted to have fun I think and Gabriel was stopping her. I think the HG is just a random guy she was with , nothing has shown any real involvement there and I have not seen any "prior" involvement (like an internet correspondence) Elizabeth is a beautiful young woman and I am sure she had no trouble in finding a random guy to be with

There's been nothing at all to indicate Elizabeth used drugs at all. She was typically a very light social drinker. Ken stated that she was apparently drinking (and personally I read that as heavily) while in San Antonio only.

If you have links to credible sources about drug use, partying, or alcohol use, please provide them.

 

[BeanE]

Both members and guests come to WS for well-sourced, credible facts. It's what sets WS a cut above the rest. Rumors aren't permitted. We need to stick with supported facts.

Also, please take the discussions of why Elizabeth isn't talking to the appropriate thread. We can't have two threads on the same topic. The appropriate thread for that is here:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98468"]Why Won't Elizabeth Talk?!? - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


Thanks,
BeanE

 

[artsy1]

Attorneys only advise their clients of their options. The client makes the decision on what they choose to do. EJ, like any client, can listen to her attorney's advice, and say "Okay, I'm ready to take Option C, to talk and tell the whole truth about what I did with Gabe."

There's just no such thing as an attorney not letting a client talk, or do anything else.

I understand that. I just meant that if EJ knows she's facing 20+ years for kidnapping and talks without a plea deal, she's STILL facing 20+ years - why talk?

 

[YellowSubmarine]

I don't think one spiteful text to Logan is enough to decide she hurt Gabe. She admitted herself she wanted to hurt Logan. I think she's just crazy enough to say something like this. I think it was in the heat of the moment and it made her feel better knowing she was using what would hurt Logan the most.

I just can't see her "confessing" to murdering her baby like that.

The diaper bag still missing? Well, there are a lot of things that haven't been found. I.E the laptop.

I would need something, some solid proof of something being done to Gabe before I believe it. Until then, I'll hold on to hope he is alive and well with the evidence we do have of that.

 

[iluvmua]

Is it possible that LE does have evidence that EJ killed Gabriel and they are just not saying anything yet. possible stuff they are keeping close to the vest?

 

[iluvmua]

two reasons why I think EJ killed Gabriel are:

1. the Text message she sent Logan
2. No witness accounts of anybody seeing him alive after December 26th. and now the fact that Logan says they are leaning away from the illegal adoption theory. (of course that may not mean anything).

 

[kappy50]

The reporter asked LM about the illegal adoption and he said they were leaning away from that. We all knew that before he went on this show, obviously the reporter did not, or she just asked that question for those who made not have heard it the first time. To me that was old news.

 

[iluvmua]

if illegal adoption is being possibly ruled out, then what is left? Hand off?

in all reality, the only other option would be murder since nobody can find him

 

[iluvmua]

LE is probably getting all of their ducks in a row before they charge her with homicide. MOO

 

[Khristi]

Yes, although an unpopular theory,I too feel that she did do the unthinkable to this poor baby. You have ill will, a vicious ugly battle, she's off her meds, she's been violent before. She's not talking, so you put it all it together and you have worse case. Yes, there might be some slim chance that he got handed off, but not likely. Eliza. would rat out the couple who had him in heartbeat to save her own skin. Her decribing him as blue, IMO means she witnessed him turning blue- that's a very specific color when she relayed it to Logan- that is not good. If you make up that you killed your child, you really could not make up a color he turned when you did the unthinkable. She's seeing details of his death, not just making it up. And I hate to get graphic, but blue may also indicate asphysiation, drowning, or suffocation. Those types of deaths don't leave obvious physical evidence. But, yes, she's not talking to not incriminate herself, no couple has come forward, there are no sightings of him (none that I know of) and also her character to me all points to worst case scenario. I personally think the journal indicating a handoff as well as the search in the landfill are red herrings, things Eliz. threw into to confuse LE and Logan. The baby was last seen at the park, and also she claimed she gave him away at the park, so the park or surrounding areas near they park may hold big clues to the ultimate question: Where is Gabriel?

 

[iluvmua]

Reasons:
1. EJ texted Logan and told him Gabriel's "dead, blue body was in the green diaper bag and that she had suffocated him and put in a dumpster.
2. Nobody has seen him alive since December 26th
3. EJ's past behavior
4. Calling Gabriel, "It", "Thing" and telling Logan to " Shut that damn baby up"
5. Never wanted Gabriel in the first place
6. Destroyed some of Gabriel's personal items
7. Will not tell LE what she did with her baby

 

[BeanE]

Is it possible that LE does have evidence that EJ killed Gabriel and they are just not saying anything yet. possible stuff they are keeping close to the vest?

I am 100% sure this is not the case. LE told the family they don't have one single piece of physical evidence. If that were not true, that would be unimaginably cruel for them to lead the family on like that. Beyond the pale of being unethical. Plus, they have told the family that they are taking one last shot at finding Gabe alive, they appear to be working on and following up on leads, and again, that would just be beyond cruel. Plus, I have no doubts if they did, they would have brought charges already.

 

[BeanE]

two reasons why I think EJ killed Gabriel are:

1. the Text message she sent Logan
2. No witness accounts of anybody seeing him alive after December 26th. and now the fact that Logan says they are leaning away from the illegal adoption theory. (of course that may not mean anything).

What Logan is referring back to is what Ken announced with the new information on March 26, that the new theory is that Elizabeth put Gabe into hiding, rather than giving him up for adoption.

 

[kissdegirl]

http://www.kpho.com/news/22972837/detail.html

POSTED: 9:38 pm MST March 26, 2010
UPDATED: 11:02 pm MST March 26, 2010

After viewing a video of Friday’s custody hearing about missing baby Gabriel Johnson, well-known Valley forensic psychologist Dr. Erin Nelson said Elizabeth Johnson didn’t appear interested in her child.

Nelson said Johnson’s behavior indicated that her primary concern is not her son, but her own fate.

"The one thing I take away from today is that clearly Elizabeth Johnson is somebody who has her own interests as her number one priority,” said Nelson.

Johnson only became emotional when she was being questioned about issues that could impact the charges against her.

"She did not visibly react when the judge awarded custody to McQueary and revoked her right to spend time with Gabriel."

“Her behavior doesn't bode well for her level of interest in the child,” said Nelson. "It is noteworthy that at the time that custody is awarded to the father, she is stoic."

That amount of time without any significant hit or any that I'm aware of doesn't bode well for a happy ending,” she said.

This psychologist also offers a reason why EJ may not be guilty of killing Gabriel, but the majority of the article addresses the topic of this thread.

 

[iluvmua]

I am 100% sure this is not the case. LE told the family they don't have one single piece of physical evidence. If that were not true, that would be unimaginably cruel for them to lead the family on like that. Beyond the pale of being unethical. Plus, they have told the family that they are taking one last shot at finding Gabe alive, they appear to be working on and following up on leads, and again, that would just be beyond cruel. Plus, I have no doubts if they did, they would have brought charges already.

Hi, what do you mean by LE telling the family they are taking one last shot at fining Gabriel alive?

 

[BeanE]

Hi, what do you mean by LE telling the family they are taking one last shot at fining Gabriel alive?

Gabe had a missing person case. When the landfill search was to be started, LE opened a homicide case as well. Dual investigates at the same time. When the landfill search ended, they closed the missing person case. The homicide case remains open. LE told the family at that time that although they closed the missing person case, they felt the right thing to do in essence would be to take one more good hard shot at finding Gabe alive rather than bringing the aggravated homicide charge against Elizabeth.

I can't remember the date the landfill search began and ended, but those dates would be in the Landfill Searches thread.

Prior to that time, LE had in essence sat back. They would investigate leads that came in, but they weren't proactively looking for leads for Gabe. Since that time, they have not only been following up the leads that come to them, but the good hard shot is that they are proactively developing and following leads.

Also during this time, Ken came on board, and has done just a phenomenal job finding new information and developing leads. He's taken them to LE, and with all of this together, Gabe's missing person case has taken on new vigor.

 

[LogicalMinds]

Giving Gabriel to someone for "safekeeping"??? who and why would take a baby and just keep them for a young distressed mother they did not know well??

I can imagine a kind soul helping her out, give a ride, watch the baby while she looks for a job...but who is going to take a baby in a park with nothing for the baby, and simply walk off to "hold him for safekeeping"??

In an adoption/underground adoption they would at least have their own desire for a child...but just to be an unpaid, unthanked caretaker and provider for a baby you do not know and an (unfit) mother you don't know??

why would the HG set this up?? I can see a guy meeting E and thinking, she is messed up, she doesn't love that baby, she might hurt him, let me see if my mom can watch him tonight and maybe we can call social services or take the baby to a fire station or something.....but I can't see them just taking Gabe in a park

 

[LogicalMinds]

BBM - Question first, I thought I had been following this case pretty well, but I don't recall anywhere that it's been talked about that EJ liked to party and do drugs. Can you explain, please? Thanks!

I don't believe that EJ killed Gabe, but in keeping with the spirit of this thread, here's a thought.

Apparently in EJ's "journal", she writes about drinking and getting depressed about the loss of her mother. What if she started thinking about Gabe growing up and wondering why his mother gave him away, and killed him to "spare him" the kind of pain she's lived with all her life? :waitasec:

Hi sorry if I didn't word that right....she was "drugging" Gabe ...with over the counter meds I think , to keep him quiet.

I have read that she was getting dressed up and going out....had the babysitter in...I may be wrong in assuming that she was going out to "party'

I do think she told the babysitter to give him more over counter meds. The pictures of poor little guy in the motel room are very depressing. I think he looks like he is drugged, his eyes, and that one pic of him holding a medicine bottle is very "telling" IMHO

I am not trying to start rumors...nor speculation.

I do feel there are a lot of reasons to hope for the best but to REALISTICALLY EXPECT THE WORST HERE.

The more time goes on the more I think this. Also...the idea that someone took in Gabe for "safekeeping" becomes less and less likely as time goes on.

 

[strawberry]

I don't have time to go through this whole thread. Just wanted to say I really think and have thought she killed poor Gabe. We periodically hear horror stories about new moms or pregnant moms being killed and the baby taken by someone. Almost always the person is caught very soon. Someone sees it, says hey so and so showed up with a baby...and she didn't look pregnant. So I really think they would have found him by now.

 

[iluvmua]

I don't have time to go through this whole thread. Just wanted to say I really think and have thought she killed poor Gabe. We periodically hear horror stories about new moms or pregnant moms being killed and the baby taken by someone. Almost always the person is caught very soon. Someone sees it, says hey so and so showed up with a baby...and she didn't look pregnant. So I really think they would have found him by now.

I get what you are saying. it's going on 4 months now and not one person has come out and said " I saw this child alive" or " I saw this person with him" etc.

at this point, it's looking very grim