No, there is not anything for babies/small children under the age of 4 that would be comparable to Nyquil.
See my above post.
Theories: Why Would Elizabeth kill Gabriel?
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No, there is not anything for babies/small children under the age of 4 that would be comparable to Nyquil.
See my above post.
sleuth2001
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she didnt have any nyquil. the babysitter mispoke. She has said Tylenol on many occassions. We see tylenol in the pictures. I sure hope she didn't have to give him any medicine while she was there because she obviusly don't know what she is doing!
kissdegirl
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I hope she misspoke. I know there were things she told LE that she had not told media before, so this was really scary. Of course, if she did tell LE that it was Nyquil, they might be more inclined to believe he may be dead.
ETA, I hate thinking about blame, but dang...I really really wish the babysitter would have reported EJ to CPS.
It sounds like all the alarms were going off in her head, but she didn't listen to them....I'm guessing it is because she is so young, and didn't trust her instincts.
kissdegirl
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No joke. If I were able to interview her and use that expert, I sure would have asked some different questions!!! media...ugh.
Hopefully she was just nervous and meant to say Tylenol.
AnnieOakley
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Sorry this post is so long! I've been thinking about this a lot!!
Theory: (Just my thoughts from reading and observing...)
There is a lot of evidence that E is a narcissist.
"Narcissistic personality disorder is a mental disorder in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance and a deep need for admiration. Those with narcissistic personality disorder believe that they're superior to others and have little regard for other people's feelings. But behind this mask of ultra-confidence lies a fragile self-esteem, vulnerable to the slightest criticism." (Mayo Clinic) I believe this fragile self-esteem vulnerable to criticism is what leads to her violent temper tantrums.
I do not believe that E would kill Gabe. She would only kill him in a rage, and he would not stimulate a rage in her. He can not challenge her self esteem. As a narcissist, I believe that if he was crying, she would just ignore it.
I believe that, as with her dogs, she would not simply get rid of something (or someone) if she stood to gain from it financially.
She stood to gain both in revenge against L and financially by selling Gabe. She knew she could not give him up for legitimate adoption.
TS was her original customer, but she realized it was too risky to sell him in AZ, and she could do better money-wise.
TS somehow became a partner in this-- perhaps when she realized she would not be given Gabe, she and E made a deal to split the money. Or, perhaps, TS came upon an opportunity to exploit someone who thinks she's smarter than everyone else, but is actually too self-centered to understand that at 23, she doesn't know squat.
TS and EJ both schemed against each other behind the scenes believing that each could end up with all the money by screwing the other one over...
TS set up the "adoption" (which I believe was really a sale). Gabe was sold to a broker who specializes in these types of transactions. I do not believe that TS and EJ are sophisticated enough to set up this type of deal themselves and leave no trace.
I don't believe that the people who actually want the child bought him directly from EJ or TS. I believe that most people who buy from a broker are just desperate, not evil. If they actually saw EJ or TS on the news, having bought Gabe directly from them, I believe they would come forward. (yes, criminal consequences or not). They would feel badly for Logan missing his boy. The couple who has ended up with Gabe has no idea who he really is because they bought him from a broker. (Nor do they probably really want to know.) They can hang on to whatever story the broker told them about getting the baby from some teen mom who was desperate and alone and just couldn't care for him.
The broker is the one who set them up with the babysitter. S/He does this frequently and knows the best way to set it up -- babysitter, meet alone without the kid, two hotel rooms (the broker was probably a guest at the other hotel), set EJ up with fake TX ID, etc The broker probably gave her cash for the hotel.
TS was to wire the money or put it into a specific account once EJ was safely in FL
TS and EJ had a contingency plan that, if caught, EJ will sit in jail for a set amount of time, and let LE exhaust themselves following fake leads (like a landfill search) (plan possibly recommended by the broker)
EJ thinks that TS has the money and will split it with her when she gets out. (Or visa-versa, but I think it's more likely that TS is hiding the money knowing they would scrutinize EJ's financials, AND TS owns a business in which she could camouflage the money)
Also, LE doesn't have probable cause to search TS's financials like they do with EJ. She will have time to filter the money. They would need much more evidence of some financial involvement on her part to subpoena the records... so far, they have kept all the financial dealings attached only to EJ. (selling her dogs to raise money, paying cash, etc)
In a set time (like 60 days) EJ will come forward with some kind of story like: "Some people kidnapped Gabe. They told me that if I didn't keep quiet for "X" number of days, they would kill him (and my whole family or some such). This exonerates TS of any involvement. She was so scared she didn't know what to do. She will cry, say she is so scared for her family and her baby, and meanwhile, the trail has gone cold.
A time frame of about 60 days would be about right because she will have faded from the limelight, and then will suddenly be front page news again... and posing as a sympathetic creature.
I'm not saying people, LE nor the public, will BUY this story, but that is what she will come up with (Narcissists believe they are smarter than everyone else, so she thinks her plan is fool-proof).
Meanwhile, TS knows that
she has the money,
EJ's story, while unbelievable, doesn't point the finger (or any
new fingers) at her
EJ will be spending 20 years in jail, and after this, even if she comes out to implicate TS, no one will listen to her after so many lies.
This is all just my opinion from my mind, which, admittedly, leans toward conspiracy theories!! Feel free to punch holes in it, because I love to discuss these ideas with others. And the people here at WS have the best ideas and insights!!
One non-theory piece::
Question: Why are they searching a landfill in AZ, if he was last seen in TX... do they know something they aren't telling the public yet??? If I missed something, please post... TIA
Theory: (Just my thoughts from reading and observing...)
There is a lot of evidence that E is a narcissist.
"Narcissistic personality disorder is a mental disorder in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance and a deep need for admiration. Those with narcissistic personality disorder believe that they're superior to others and have little regard for other people's feelings. But behind this mask of ultra-confidence lies a fragile self-esteem, vulnerable to the slightest criticism." (Mayo Clinic) I believe this fragile self-esteem vulnerable to criticism is what leads to her violent temper tantrums.
I do not believe that E would kill Gabe. She would only kill him in a rage, and he would not stimulate a rage in her. He can not challenge her self esteem. As a narcissist, I believe that if he was crying, she would just ignore it.
I believe that, as with her dogs, she would not simply get rid of something (or someone) if she stood to gain from it financially.
She stood to gain both in revenge against L and financially by selling Gabe. She knew she could not give him up for legitimate adoption.
TS was her original customer, but she realized it was too risky to sell him in AZ, and she could do better money-wise.
TS somehow became a partner in this-- perhaps when she realized she would not be given Gabe, she and E made a deal to split the money. Or, perhaps, TS came upon an opportunity to exploit someone who thinks she's smarter than everyone else, but is actually too self-centered to understand that at 23, she doesn't know squat.
TS and EJ both schemed against each other behind the scenes believing that each could end up with all the money by screwing the other one over...
TS set up the "adoption" (which I believe was really a sale). Gabe was sold to a broker who specializes in these types of transactions. I do not believe that TS and EJ are sophisticated enough to set up this type of deal themselves and leave no trace.
I don't believe that the people who actually want the child bought him directly from EJ or TS. I believe that most people who buy from a broker are just desperate, not evil. If they actually saw EJ or TS on the news, having bought Gabe directly from them, I believe they would come forward. (yes, criminal consequences or not). They would feel badly for Logan missing his boy. The couple who has ended up with Gabe has no idea who he really is because they bought him from a broker. (Nor do they probably really want to know.) They can hang on to whatever story the broker told them about getting the baby from some teen mom who was desperate and alone and just couldn't care for him.
The broker is the one who set them up with the babysitter. S/He does this frequently and knows the best way to set it up -- babysitter, meet alone without the kid, two hotel rooms (the broker was probably a guest at the other hotel), set EJ up with fake TX ID, etc The broker probably gave her cash for the hotel.
TS was to wire the money or put it into a specific account once EJ was safely in FL
TS and EJ had a contingency plan that, if caught, EJ will sit in jail for a set amount of time, and let LE exhaust themselves following fake leads (like a landfill search) (plan possibly recommended by the broker)
EJ thinks that TS has the money and will split it with her when she gets out. (Or visa-versa, but I think it's more likely that TS is hiding the money knowing they would scrutinize EJ's financials, AND TS owns a business in which she could camouflage the money)
Also, LE doesn't have probable cause to search TS's financials like they do with EJ. She will have time to filter the money. They would need much more evidence of some financial involvement on her part to subpoena the records... so far, they have kept all the financial dealings attached only to EJ. (selling her dogs to raise money, paying cash, etc)
In a set time (like 60 days) EJ will come forward with some kind of story like: "Some people kidnapped Gabe. They told me that if I didn't keep quiet for "X" number of days, they would kill him (and my whole family or some such). This exonerates TS of any involvement. She was so scared she didn't know what to do. She will cry, say she is so scared for her family and her baby, and meanwhile, the trail has gone cold.
A time frame of about 60 days would be about right because she will have faded from the limelight, and then will suddenly be front page news again... and posing as a sympathetic creature.
I'm not saying people, LE nor the public, will BUY this story, but that is what she will come up with (Narcissists believe they are smarter than everyone else, so she thinks her plan is fool-proof).
Meanwhile, TS knows that
she has the money,
EJ's story, while unbelievable, doesn't point the finger (or any
new fingers) at her
EJ will be spending 20 years in jail, and after this, even if she comes out to implicate TS, no one will listen to her after so many lies.
This is all just my opinion from my mind, which, admittedly, leans toward conspiracy theories!! Feel free to punch holes in it, because I love to discuss these ideas with others. And the people here at WS have the best ideas and insights!!
One non-theory piece::
Question: Why are they searching a landfill in AZ, if he was last seen in TX... do they know something they aren't telling the public yet??? If I missed something, please post... TIA
b4e
Bubba's Mommy
Yes, Oragel is rubbed on the gums.
She had to of misspoke. Like NG wouldn't of been all over her is she said she gave the baby Nyquil on her show. I think she meant to say Tylenol. She said "she asked me to give him Nyquil for teething", this girl should know that Nyquil is not for teething if she's been taking care of her siblings for so long.
BBM
This part right here just makes me think the babysitter doesn't know what she is talking about. Infant Tylenol (as shown in the photo) comes with a medicine dropper that you use to administer to the child. It is such a small amount that you would not put it in another container to let the baby suck it out.
The babysitter is just downright confusing.....I think she's so nervous in interviews she doesn't even know what she is saying.
BeanE
Inactive
I just started a Medication thread and will be deleting my posts out of this thread from this morning to avoid cluttering this thread.
Medication thread:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94736"]Medication Given to Gabriel - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
Medication thread:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94736"]Medication Given to Gabriel - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
southern_comfort
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I'm still learning my way around here myself. I don't know if you do this already, but I just discovered the "View First Unread" option at the top of each thread. If you click that, it takes you right to the place you left off.
When I combine that with checking the envelope icon on the main page for a new message symbol, it greatly reduces time and effort.
When I combine that with checking the envelope icon on the main page for a new message symbol, it greatly reduces time and effort.
mommavi1181
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Thanks, I was not aware of that. Will try it and see if it helps!
Pondering Mind
here a ponder, there a ponder...everywhere a ponde
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Also if you go to the very first thread at the top of the forum called "News Media and Updated Information Only..No Discussion" some dedicated posters keep daily highlights or 'new' news updated constantly and in almost real time, lol! (TY for that guys!) You can see at a glance if anything new is happening and choose the topic thread you want to catch up on first..
[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93927"]AZ-Gabriel Johnson, 8 months News Media and Updated Information ONLY. No Discussion. - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
Also, you can tell by the paper clip thingy on the right if it's a thread that you have posted on.
One more thing that helped me navigate (cause I'm am the first to admit that I am 'puter illiterate) was to click on your own nic at the top right of the page..where it says Welcome _ _ _ _ _ _ and it will show all of your own posts so you can at least go back to see where you last posted. That helps me a lot, as my memory is shot.. :crazy:
Does that make any sense? Anyway, maybe it will help someone, lol!
You'll get used to the forums I promise....and when you do, you wouldn't know what to do without them..
[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93927"]AZ-Gabriel Johnson, 8 months News Media and Updated Information ONLY. No Discussion. - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
Also, you can tell by the paper clip thingy on the right if it's a thread that you have posted on.
One more thing that helped me navigate (cause I'm am the first to admit that I am 'puter illiterate) was to click on your own nic at the top right of the page..where it says Welcome _ _ _ _ _ _ and it will show all of your own posts so you can at least go back to see where you last posted. That helps me a lot, as my memory is shot.. :crazy:
Does that make any sense? Anyway, maybe it will help someone, lol!
You'll get used to the forums I promise....and when you do, you wouldn't know what to do without them..
panthera
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I agree but I also think they'd need more evidence pointing to him being dead than what we're aware of now. And I think that's why LE has decided to proceed with the landfill search. Hopefully if he is dead, she put him in that diaper bag, which could make finding him easier, and preserve his remains somewhat. MOO
WOW, that is THE MOST useful thing I've read all day, lol !!
:woohoo:
:woohoo:
:woohoo:
That's a 3 woohoo tip there!
txsvicki
Active Member
I too wonder if cadaver dogs were brought to sniff the motel rooms or the car. Pat Brown was on Geraldo and feels that Elizabeth probably killed Gabriel and thinks that a parallel investigation should have been going on all this time. It's annoying that the landfill wasn't searched early since Elizabeth said that she murdered the baby.
not_my_kids
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I watched Geraldo and noticed that Pat Brown thought he was likely dead, but the vet. homicide detective did think it was at least possible that he was handed off.
Personally, Pat was being pretty persuasive until she threw the sociopath card out there. IMO, Pat Brown thinks that everyone is a psychopath, and that just literally is not possible.
So, I choose to side with the detective, as he didn't seem to have an agenda. I still don't want to believe she killed him.
Personally, Pat was being pretty persuasive until she threw the sociopath card out there. IMO, Pat Brown thinks that everyone is a psychopath, and that just literally is not possible.
So, I choose to side with the detective, as he didn't seem to have an agenda. I still don't want to believe she killed him.
smart blonde
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I don't think anyone wants to believe Elizabeth killed Gabriel. I doubt that there is even one person following this case that wouldn't love for Gabriel to be found, alive and safe.
But, thinking with my head, and not just feeling with my heart, the chances that Gabriel is still alive seems to get slimmer by the day.
Just because you and I would never harm a baby, doesn't mean that Elizabeth didn't.
We do know that she was prone to violent rages, even before the stress of taking Gabriel 'on the run' with her. Her hurt, anger, fear and frustration may have taken over.
We also have heard how badly she wanted to destroy Logan emotionally. Killing Gabriel would definitely do that.
He has not been seen since December 26, 2009. The day after that, his mother contacted his father to say that she had killed their baby.
It has been one long month already, since Elizabeth was arrested, and even longer still, since the last known sighting of Gabriel.
I'm sure that at this point, if Elizabeth really did hand her baby off to some couple in the park, she would be conducting media interviews from the jail telephone, begging and pleading with that couple to please show themselves, and Gabriel, to help clear her name.
That isn't happening, because that phantom couple does not exist. Nobody took Gabriel. Nobody is hiding Gabriel.
I believe Elizabeth either overdosed Gabriel, smothered Gabriel, or drowned Gabriel in the motel bathtub, but no matter it happened, Elizabeth killed Gabriel.
But, thinking with my head, and not just feeling with my heart, the chances that Gabriel is still alive seems to get slimmer by the day.
Just because you and I would never harm a baby, doesn't mean that Elizabeth didn't.
We do know that she was prone to violent rages, even before the stress of taking Gabriel 'on the run' with her. Her hurt, anger, fear and frustration may have taken over.
We also have heard how badly she wanted to destroy Logan emotionally. Killing Gabriel would definitely do that.
He has not been seen since December 26, 2009. The day after that, his mother contacted his father to say that she had killed their baby.
It has been one long month already, since Elizabeth was arrested, and even longer still, since the last known sighting of Gabriel.
I'm sure that at this point, if Elizabeth really did hand her baby off to some couple in the park, she would be conducting media interviews from the jail telephone, begging and pleading with that couple to please show themselves, and Gabriel, to help clear her name.
That isn't happening, because that phantom couple does not exist. Nobody took Gabriel. Nobody is hiding Gabriel.
I believe Elizabeth either overdosed Gabriel, smothered Gabriel, or drowned Gabriel in the motel bathtub, but no matter it happened, Elizabeth killed Gabriel.
I WISH they would have searched the dumpsters and landfills the minute they found out that EJ sent that text to Logan saying that she had killed Gabriel.