Theory - Is JM a Possible Middle Man Connection?

[BeanE]

BBM

I don't know if it's true in all states, but I know in my state, notaries have nothing to do with whether or not a document is legally true. All a notary does is verify the IDENTITY of the signer - they are not legal professionals, and therefore do not read the documents that are being signed.

I think you're absolutely right. Notaries have nothing to do with the contents of the document, just verifying that the person signing is who they say they are.

Does somebody want to find a source on a good legal site to verify this, or pop a question into the Legal questions thread please?

TIA

 

[BeanE]

If there's a notary on the temp guardianship papers, is that someone from the courts? I would still love to know what adoption agency TS and JS planned to use if the adoption of G had successfully gone through. The fact that TS contacted JM prior to the Dec. timeframe in order to ask if she was still handling placements suggests that TS mnay have been planning to use JM--that is as long as JM's answer to the question was "Yes." If not JM, then TS should be made to say who they had retained because they certainly couldn't have planned to adopt anytime soon and not have made contact with someone. If notaries were employed by the same companies making all these arrangements and having a vested interest in seeing them through to successful completion, the conflicting interests (putting your seal on a document to say that the right proof has been shown and that the doc is legally true vs. being someone who is aware that proof has not been shown and the intended action of the doc is not legal) suggest the opportunity for some serious wrongdoing.

Chell, can you provide a source reference link confirming that you have to have an agency in AZ to adopt? You can also ask the question in the Legal questions thread, and our verified attorney AZlawyer may give an answer for us.

TIA

 

[BeanE]

No real confirmation, except for JM's post. The time frame from 12/13/09-12/18/09 was not a pageant but according to the post below, it was a meeting getting ready for their "2010 World's Universal Beauty Scholarship Competition" in San Marcos, TX which is located between Austin and San Antonio.



http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache...+Reserve+Your+Room!"&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

http://wyfolm1.tripod.com/index.html

Sorry, Litl, but I'm not seeing it in that post indicating that it was a planning meeting. Rather, it looks to me like a whole slew of families are trying to book rooms at the hotel where the pageant is going to take place, and time is running out. Based on the post date of Dec 7, it seems clear to me it's for the Dec 13 OLM Scholarship pageant.

What am I missing?

 

[Litlred]

Sorry, Litl, but I'm not seeing it in that post indicating that it was a planning meeting. Rather, it looks to me like a whole slew of families are trying to book rooms at the hotel where the pageant is going to take place, and time is running out. Based on the post date of Dec 7, it seems clear to me it's for the Dec 13 OLM Scholarship pageant.

What am I missing?

I am finding pageants before and after the 12/13/10-12/18/10 timeframe. They are posted on the internet in several places but nothing, I mean dry bone nothing for 12/13/09-12/18/09 re: pageants.

I'm reading the post this way. The person posting it on 12/7/09 stated: There are a few small groups checking in for a meeting the following week.
I take this meaning the following week from 12/7/09. There are tons of people posting for this "world" competition, but only a handful for the time frame of 12/13/09-12/18/10.

 

[BeanE]

I am finding pageants before and after the 12/13/10-12/18/10 timeframe. They are posted on the internet in several places but nothing, I mean dry bone nothing for 12/13/09-12/18/09 re: pageants.

I'm reading the post this way. The person posting it on 12/7/09 stated: There are a few small groups checking in for a meeting the following week.
I take this meaning the following week from 12/7/09. There are tons of people posting for this "world" competition, but only a handful for the time frame of 12/13/09-12/18/10.

I see the following week thing as explaining why there are so few rooms still available for these moms and their families.

The first post we have linked where JM posted, some people talk about checking in the night before, which I'm thinking may be the 13th. They're all leaving on the 18th, one says she's leaving in the morning of the 18th. So I'm thinking the actual pageant dates are Dec 14 to 17.

I can't imagine that number of people going just for a planning meeting. It could certainly be. I'm just not seeing it right now.

Let's keep looking. We still need to confirm whether JM ever actually attended it, whatever it was. We haven't yet placed her in TX.

 

[artsy1]

I think you're absolutely right. Notaries have nothing to do with the contents of the document, just verifying that the person signing is who they say they are.

Does somebody want to find a source on a good legal site to verify this, or pop a question into the Legal questions thread please?

TIA

From the National Notary Association:

http://www.nationalnotary.org/howto/index.cfm?text=whatIsNotary

(snipped): Does notarization make a document "true" or "legal"?
No. A notarization typically means the signer acknowledged to the Notary that he or she signed the document or vouched under oath or affirmation that the contents of the document were true. :dance:

 

[danisisa]

I am a Notary and you can lose your notary, get in trouble if you know a document and identity are fake/illegal/forged so forth.

 

[artsy1]

I am a Notary and you can lose your notary, get in trouble if you know a document and identity are fake/illegal/forged so forth.

That is true, but someone has to tell you that the documents are fake/illegal/forged. The notary does not make that determination themselves about the documents, but they can make that determination about the identification being presented to them.

 

[BeanE]

From the National Notary Association:

http://www.nationalnotary.org/howto/index.cfm?text=whatIsNotary

(snipped): Does notarization make a document "true" or "legal"?
No. A notarization typically means the signer acknowledged to the Notary that he or she signed the document or vouched under oath or affirmation that the contents of the document were true. :dance:

Perfect! Thanks so much for finding that and posting it, artsy.

 

[artsy1]

I see the following week thing as explaining why there are so few rooms still available for these moms and their families.

The first post we have linked where JM posted, some people talk about checking in the night before, which I'm thinking may be the 13th. They're all leaving on the 18th, one says she's leaving in the morning of the 18th. So I'm thinking the actual pageant dates are Dec 14 to 17.

I can't imagine that number of people going just for a planning meeting. It could certainly be. I'm just not seeing it right now.

Let's keep looking. We still need to confirm whether JM ever actually attended it, whatever it was. We haven't yet placed her in TX.

I think we can confirm that JM was NOT in TX regarding the pagent from the 13th to the 18th. My sister just did something that apparently no one else has. She compared JM's post to the calendar.

JM talks about arriving on Wednesday, the 13th, but the 13th falls on Wednesday in JANUARY 2010, not December 2009. So I think that we are all spinning our wheels on finding a December pagent. :banghead:

 

[Litlred]

I think we can confirm that JM was NOT in TX regarding the pagent from the 13th to the 18th. My sister just did something that apparently no one else has. She compared JM's post to the calendar.

JM talks about arriving on Wednesday, the 13th, but the 13th falls on Wednesday in JANUARY 2010, not December 2009. So I think that we are all spinning our wheels on finding a December pagent. :banghead:

Thank you and tell your sister thank you as well.

 

[kissdegirl]

Thank you and tell your sister thank you as well.

ROFL! It's always a simple explanation, right? lol. :croc:

 

[BeanE]

I think we can confirm that JM was NOT in TX regarding the pagent from the 13th to the 18th. My sister just did something that apparently no one else has. She compared JM's post to the calendar.

JM talks about arriving on Wednesday, the 13th, but the 13th falls on Wednesday in JANUARY 2010, not December 2009. So I think that we are all spinning our wheels on finding a December pagent. :banghead:

Thank you so very much, artsy. Please give your sister a big hug from me. I spent hours today trying to figure out wth pageant they were at, reading through pageant forums. ugh!

To repeat:

JM was NOT in TX in December

 

[BeanE]

Adoption fees for the agency JM used to be associated with in this document, along with adoption fees for other agencies. This is 2007, so I'd imagine fees are higher now. But, it gives us an idea not only of the fees involved, but the adoption process itself:

http://www.state.tn.us/youth/adoption/2007AdoptionFees.pdf

Note that this is from the state of Tennessee's website. Also note that the JM related agency is listed as private non-profit, and listed for International adoptions.

 

[chell]

Just had a thought that had not occurred to me before seeing lilred's coincidences... Maybe rather than place G with family or friends of TS or EJ, G might have been temporarily placed with someone employed within the adoption group. LE checked JM's home and homes in TN belonging to the Ss and to their families but I wonder if the search branched out to all know associates of JM's adoption co. Is that just too much of a stretch?

 

[DairyGirl]

Adoption fees for the agency JM used to be associated with in this document, along with adoption fees for other agencies. This is 2007, so I'd imagine fees are higher now. But, it gives us an idea not only of the fees involved, but the adoption process itself:

http://www.state.tn.us/youth/adoption/2007AdoptionFees.pdf

Note that this is from the state of Tennessee's website. Also note that the JM related agency is listed as private non-profit, and listed for International adoptions.

I can't believe how expensive it is to adopt. When we adopted our son in 1982 it only cost about $1300 total.

 

[Litlred]

Just had a thought that had not occurred tome before seeing lilred's coincidences... Maybe rather than place G with family or friends of TS or EJ, G might have been temporarily placed with someone employed within the adoption group. LE checked JM's home and homes in TV belonging to the Ss and to trheir families but I wonder if the search branched out to all know associates of JM's adoption co. Is that just too uch of a stretch?

Chell, I don't think anything is too much of a stretch when looking for a missing child.

 

[BeanE]

whois for adoptionplace.com shows status of locked,
Creation date: 20 Feb 2004 19:24:07
Expiration date: 20 Feb 2011 19:24:00

http://whois.domaintools.com/adoptionplace.com


Wayback shows last website update Aug 25, 2007. Prior updates are from Jan 24, 2001 to Dec 14, 2005. However, archives show the site saying 'under construction', and there is very little information on the site. Website appears to have been taken down in 2002.

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://adoptionplace.com

How I linked adoptionplace.com to the Adoption Place:
The email address shown in the onetruegift link for JM and the Adoption Place is the email address listed on the Wayback archive of adoptionplace.com

I don't think JM has done anything in adoptions for years. Even her friend Tammi asked her, when? October 2009? if she was still doing adoptions. If she was active in adoptions, surely her friend Tammi the queen of adoption would know about it. I know what all my friends are currently involved in, and what they were involved in years ago.

 

[Prof]

whois for adoptionplace.com shows status of locked,
Creation date: 20 Feb 2004 19:24:07
Expiration date: 20 Feb 2011 19:24:00

http://whois.domaintools.com/adoptionplace.com


Wayback shows last website update Aug 25, 2007. Prior updates are from Jan 24, 2001 to Dec 14, 2005. However, archives show the site saying 'under construction', and there is very little information on the site. Website appears to have been taken down in 2002.

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://adoptionplace.com

How I linked adoptionplace.com to the Adoption Place:
The email address shown in the onetruegift link for JM and the Adoption Place is the email address listed on the Wayback archive of adoptionplace.com

I don't think JM has done anything in adoptions for years. Even her friend Tammi asked her, when? October 2009? if she was still doing adoptions. If she was active in adoptions, surely her friend Tammi the queen of adoption would know about it. I know what all my friends are currently involved in, and what they were involved in years ago.

I don't think they are very close friends -- she did not even know that she added the wrong JM to her FB lol

 

[TXHOPE]

I don't think they are very close friends -- she did not even know that she added the wrong JM to her FB lol

Which would explain why she may have referred EJ to another adoptive couple or baby broker, she didn't have any real ties to TS.