Theory Thread - What happened at Pistorius' house on the night of Feb. 13, 2013?

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I know...but many people conclude, because of Vermeulen's messy cross in which he assumes the bat strikes are what caused the door to be broken down, is the end of the story. Nel cleaned it up on redirect when Vermeulen allowed bat strikes and kicking to the door before the shots. :)

Defence: First bangs (shortly after 3) were gunshots; Second bangs (3:17) were bat strikes.
Prosecutor: First bangs were Oscar kicking or hitting the door with the bat (remember the metal panel too) and the second bangs were gunshots. (Also consistent, tmk, with blood and pathology testimonies.)

(Sorry if my post was confusing, IB, I was simply agreeing with you and lamenting us having to repeat it ad nauseum. :biggrin:)


No your post was fine but so many on the forum seem to think the Defence and the State think the same when so clearly they don't. Apologies, I should have started a new post and not attached my comments to yours.
 
My theory isn't just a theory about what happened in those final moments, it's also partially an examination of what was going on with the two of them that day. So bear with me, this may be a little lengthy.

There are many red flags to me that things were not normal that day.

1. OP testified that he left the house early that morning to beat the traffic for his financial meeting. He said he got there an hour early and met a friend for coffee. He was very vague about it and did not say with whom he met. My hinky meter went up on this one. My speculation, that was a planned coffee date. I don't know if it was with another woman, or if it was a business or family matter that he wanted to keep hidden from Reeva. Not sure. But I was left with that sneaking feeling that he left early to meet someone.

2. He then testified that he was supposed to meet up with Reeva in Johannesburg that afternoon after his meeting but for some reason, she decided to stay in Pretoria and get stuff done at his house and he ended up making plans with Justin Devaris to have dinner with the guys.

3. We know that his financial meeting didn't go well. Reeva sent him consoling messages and suggested he spend the night with family. This was odd to me. I get the sense that his "hurdles" weren't just about money. The fact that she suggested he spend the night with his siblings, Carl or Aimee, tells me that something else was going on. From her texts, I also got the sense that she wanted to go home that night, not stay at his place.

4. After looking at his afternoon/evening phones calls again, I see that he was talking to his Dad, Henke, a few times on the phone that night. One call was at 17:56:51 (307 seconds) and the other call was at 18:47:59 (56 seconds). Could this also be an indication that part of his problems that day were family related?

5. OP testified that he and Reeva exchanged more messages later in the day and he ultimately decided to cancel his guy's dinner and she declined Samantha G's invitation to hang out and watch a movie. Again, I didn't feel like I was getting the whole story from OP on the stand. His accounting of their plans that night felt very made up. I really get the sense that one of them felt forced to be at Oscar's that night, but I can't figure out if that was Reeva or if it was Oscar.

6. He testified that he got home about 15 minutes after Reeva and he started to say that he parked his car in the driveway, went to the front door and it was locked and the dogs were running around the house... and the Judge cut him off. She told him to slow down, he was going too fast. When he picks up with the story, he skips that part and just says that Reeva was in the kitchen cooking dinner. The way he was beginning that sentence gave me the impression that he was a little ticked off when he got to the house.

7. He says they chatted for a few minutes and then he disappears upstairs for pretty much an hour. His accounting of this hour, I think we can all agree, was bizarre. We know from the iPad evidence that *advertiser censored* was watched on his iPad but OP refused to admit to that. I think the hour by himself upstairs is indicative of somebody who had a crappy day and needed space.

8. They then have dinner and OP testified that he helped her with her modeling contract paperwork. He made changes in areas that he thought were not good for Reeva. I can see this potentially turning in to an argument if the jealousy/control factor was kicking in, especially if he was already in a sour mood. He said that typically they watch TV downstairs after dinner but this night they were both very tired so they skipped that. Again - red flag that all was not "normal" that night.

9. They go upstairs and he describes very mundane things such as brushing teeth, drinking tea, talking about cars. They very well could have been bickering at this point or maybe they had sex and he didn't want to testify to that, who knows. But the fact that his details of several hours spent together with Reeva that night were extraordinarily boring and vague, tells me that we didn't get nearly the full story.

10. We do know that he chatted with his cousin on the phone. OP is a master at keeping up appearances, so he could have seemed normal to his cousin that night, even if he did have a bad day. Reeva could have very well done some exercises, maybe to blow off steam.

11. Gina Myers has spoken in interviews about how the text she got from Reeva that night was not her norm. Typically she was very bubbly and always told her she loved her, but apparently the text was very direct that night. We have not seen this text, nor has Gina testified, so this is really just a side note to add in to again illustrate the not "normal" tone of that night.

12. Reeva had food in her stomach which had to have been consumed sooner than the 8 hours that OP testified about on the stand. It is my belief that they never went to bed that night. I think it was a mix of arguing, cooling off, arguing, cooling off, etc. Just an overall tense night.

13. Around the 2am hour, things escalated. Mrs. van der Mewre testified that it started at exactly 1:56am. That means she looked at her clock when it woke her. She heard a loud, angry female voice intermittently for an hour. At one point she got up out of bed to see if she could see anything from her balcony, but she could not. She had to put a pillow over her head to go back to sleep. For anybody who has been awakened late at night by loud arguing voices, which I have, it is very annoying. I think she was speaking truthfully about what she heard. She seemed very upset about it on the stand. Surely if she didn't have to be there, she would not have been. Her husband identified crying after the fact as being Oscar. It was "crying" not blood-curdling screaming. He likely heard Oscar after the final shots. The fact that the arguing and the crying were coming from the same direction/location tells me that she heard arguing in that house an hour prior to the gunfire.

14. I think the real heated arguing started elsewhere than the bathroom. I think they were either in one of the lounge areas or in the bedroom. I think the bedroom door was closed by Reeva, possibly even slammed in Oscar's face and he flipped out. She wanted to leave. Somehow the disheveled jeans are tied in to her trying to leave in a hurry. I do not buy for a second that the broken bedroom door happened from him kicking it. That is one heck of a crack in the bottom of the door. His prosthetic leg would have been pretty decently shattered, I think. It would have taken him 3 seconds to lean down and undo the floor/top latches to open that door. No need to kick it whatsoever. But it's not just the bottom crack that we see. There are two good "whack" marks right near the door handle and what appears to be two separate pellet marks. One hole that has an entrance and exit, and the other appears to be a grazing mark. I think the first set of bangs very well could have been the airgun shooting at the bedroom door. I also think he may have used the metal baseball bat on the door, but don't think anybody would have heard that.

15. The Stipps testified that the screams escalated and climaxed, and the sounds got closer. I think this was Reeva running to the bathroom. She very well may have had the cricket bat in her hand for defense.

16. I think Reeva also had her phone on her (to call police) and either Oscar caught up to her and whacked it away from her, or she dropped it, leaving it on the ground with the cover knocked off. This would have really pissed him off.

17. Reeva scrambles in to the toilet room and quickly locks the door.

18. Oscar first uses the cricket bat to whack the metal plate, in anger. He also takes a whack at the door. Reeva's screams are escalating.

19. This is when the Stipps and Burger/Johnson heard the intermingled voices. Reeva screaming for help and Oscar either mocking her cries for help or maybe even pleading with her to please come out. Reeva is facing the door, literally pleading for him to stop and for help to come. I think they were both desperate at this point.

20. Oscar has had it. He's totally in a rage. He retreats to the bedroom and gets his gun. Whatever final words or screams were yelled, he just can't contain himself. Fires off the shots through the door. I think there is a very good chance that he could see her through the crack.

21. He likely paused for some moments there and just put the gun on the ground. Picked up the bat that was already in the bathroom and hit the door one more time (this was the lighter strike that hit right on the break, so it's very possible people didn't hear it) and started ripping the panels out. He walks in, picks her up and puts her on the bathroom floor. Goes to get his phone and calls Stander in a panic. I do think he was very upset at this point. He probably could not believe that he actually just did this and is terrified and upset. He was sobbing. Not totally knowing at this point what he's going to do. Stander tells him he must call Netcare. To comply, Oscar does that, but doesn't tell Netcare the truth about the injuries hence, no ambulance. He's in panic mode, very upset, his mind racing a mile a minute.

22. He runs downstairs, unlocks door and gets plastic bags. I think there was something he was trying to hide. I don't think he was going to get rid of the body. That one is a little too far-fetched for me. I think he wanted to get rid of other evidence, but I don't know exactly what. During this timeframe, he accidentally calls Baba (crap!) and Baba calls back. Again, he literally does not know what the h#ll to say so he blurts out "everything is fine" and hangs up. Again, crap! He knows this whole situation is BAD.

23. He carries Reeva's body out of that bathroom, he has to get her the heck out of there. He walks with her down the hallway, the last of her weak heart beats create the arterial spurt from her arm (as she was only just shot about 4-5 minutes ago.) He's up on the landing and sees everybody arriving at the door, he carries her down the stairs....

Now from my theory, you can see that he has his prosthetics on the whole time. I am currently of the belief that he was not on his stumps for the shooting. I know that this conflicts with the height of the bullet holes but Mangena did leave open the possibility that he could have been shooting from the hip, although not a probable stance.

OP stated a few times in his testimony that he was "crouching" in the bathroom as he approached the intruder. Although I don't believe the grand majority of what he says, I wonder if this may be one of those little truths that is weaved in to his story that he accidently blurted out.

Once I started thinking about that and adding it together with how mobile he seemingly was to shoot 4 times through the door, rip the door down so quickly and get her out of that room fairly quickly... it dawned on me that maybe we had it wrong. Maybe the legs really were on the whole time and his stance was not fully upright.

Your whole theory makes so much sense, thank you. But the bit in bold, your point number 8, made me sit up straight. Reeva was the one with the law degree. Why would she need OP's help with her modeling contract paperwork? He made changes in areas that he thought were not good for Reeva?
 
Your whole theory makes so much sense, thank you. But the bit in bold, your point number 8, made me sit up straight. Reeva was the one with the law degree. Why would she need OP's help with her modeling contract paperwork? He made changes in areas that he thought were not good for Reeva?

jmo, but I think that he almost certainly had siginificantly more knowledge than she did regarding what should and should not be in a contract of that type given his sponsorship contracts and the like. Many types of contracts, including that type, are specialized and a person with experience is likely to know more about the specifics than a person with a law degree -- especially one who has never practiced, much less in that area. Just like, for example, a realtor has seen thousands more real estate contracts than a criminal defense attorney and has vastly superior knowledge about the particulars than the lawyer does.

jmo
 
jmo, but I think that he almost certainly had siginificantly more knowledge than she did regarding what should and should not be in a contract of that type given his sponsorship contracts and the like. Many types of contracts, including that type, are specialized and a person with experience is likely to know more about the specifics than a person with a law degree -- especially one who has never practiced, much less in that area. Just like, for example, a realtor has seen thousands more real estate contracts than a criminal defense attorney and has vastly superior knowledge about the particulars than the lawyer does.

jmo

Not sure I agree with you. Oscar had a manager and lawyers and Adv. Oldwage on call that night. So logic tells me they would have handled his contracts.

But I do agree that Oscar thought he knew more than Reeva about the contracts. I'm just not sure Reeva would have agreed with him.
 
"Humble" isn't a word I'd use to describe the Pistorius personality.

This is a young "Alpha Male" who stands 4 & half foot high! He just doesn't measure up to other men ... women even ... and I believe this is what pushed him to compete with able-bodied athletes ... he had a deep desire or drive to prove he was just as good ... or better... than other 'full' men!!

And that explains OPs personality. His temper stems from the hand life had dealt him, his arrogance from his monied lifestyle, he's that rich, spoilt brat who has an ugly streak within him. He doesn't obey law and he'll even shout at policemen at the side of the road.

He had a team of lawyers take apart the athletics rules and find a technicality that allowed him to run against able-bodied athletes and it doesn't take a genius to see how the blades would give him an advantage. But that is the spoilt rich brat getting his way and competeing againsst them when he had the advantage. In my simple terms, he cheated.

Without his running against the able, we would never have heard of this para-olympian. The whole 'Blade Runner' thing is a PR construct and he's lived off the adverts ever since.

And contrary to your words that he's accepted responsibility for his actions, etc. No he hasn't! He called it an 'accident' and chose his words very carefully.

Reevas continued friendship with a 'full' rugby player ... a full man would (did) strike deep into OPs insecurities. Here was a man he could never be... ever. When divested of his legs he's shoulder-high to a woman. The murderous rage is mixed up within the above and it would only take a mis-placed giggle, condescening or pitious look to set his jealous insecurity off.

p.s. I believe his first instinct was to try to disappear the body.

Well done and I wish to read further posts from you. Though you did sum it all up nicely.
 
Not sure I agree with you. Oscar had a manager and lawyers and Adv. Oldwage on call that night. So logic tells me they would have handled his contracts.

But I do agree that Oscar thought he knew more than Reeva about the contracts. I'm just not sure Reeva would have agreed with him.

Definitely not ruling out the possibility that it was a source of disagreement. But I stand by my position that Oscar had more practical knowledge then Reeva did regarding that type of contract. Even if his attorneys handled it, he would have been involved and consulted regarding specifics and advised as to what terms were in his interest or not. Reeva could easily have thought she knew better--especially with her law degree. One of the interesting things to me about the fact pattern in this case is that the hour long yelling earlier in the night was a woman yelling, according to the witnesses.
 
Reeva was not a first time model when she was dating OP. She also worked for a modeling agency. I doubt very seriously that Reeva needed help from OP on any of her contracts. Perhaps she let him "help" to make him feel better about himself, but she clearly didn't need his help.

MOO

ETA: link to Reeva's Who'swho page
http://whoswho.co.za/reeva-steenkamp-583882
 
Definitely not ruling out the possibility that it was a source of disagreement. But I stand by my position that Oscar had more practical knowledge then Reeva did regarding that type of contract. Even if his attorneys handled it, he would have been involved and consulted regarding specifics and advised as to what terms were in his interest or not. Reeva could easily have thought she knew better--especially with her law degree. One of the interesting things to me about the fact pattern in this case is that the hour long yelling earlier in the night was a woman yelling, according to the witnesses.

Excellent point. It does fits the pattern. Thank you.
 
Definitely not ruling out the possibility that it was a source of disagreement. But I stand by my position that Oscar had more practical knowledge then Reeva did regarding that type of contract. Even if his attorneys handled it, he would have been involved and consulted regarding specifics and advised as to what terms were in his interest or not. Reeva could easily have thought she knew better--especially with her law degree. One of the interesting things to me about the fact pattern in this case is that the hour long yelling earlier in the night was a woman yelling, according to the witnesses.

I agree with this
 
For me the most likely cause of the argument would have been jealousy on the part of OP. Possibly the kiss of which OP seemingly knew nothing and perhaps RS told him about on the evening of 13th. Reeva, IMO, would have attempted to criticise him about his attitude, even to the point of saying that their relationship could not continue unless he altered his unreasonable behaviour. However, OP (as per usual) lost control, there was a shouting match that he was losing and his temper then escalated into violence. At all cost Oscar has to win and at the end OP completely 'loses it' when he shoots through the door at a frightened Reeva who has taken refuge there.
 
Your whole theory makes so much sense, thank you. But the bit in bold, your point number 8, made me sit up straight. Reeva was the one with the law degree. Why would she need OP's help with her modeling contract paperwork? He made changes in areas that he thought were not good for Reeva?

I don't have a problem with this part. I understood it to mean that OP was looking at the content of the contract rather than the legal wording e.g. was she getting the best deal. He'd be used to extracting the best deal for himself in his contracts, so his experience would be relevant.
 
Re OP's knowledge of contracts/sponsorships, at the time he killed Reeva he was suing Cassidy Taylor-Memmory for damages (including loss of sponsors) resulting from the assault charge she'd leveled against him in 2009 when he broke a door in anger and pieces injured her leg. OP dropped the suit two weeks before trial began. But on the night he killed Reeva he knew that another criminal complaint/charge would end life as he knew it.
 
My version:

They argue all night in phases. At some point he does something to scare her, maybe firing the air-rifle thru the door? Maybe he played russian roulette with an empty pistol against the back of her head when she was unaware? Maybe it was an air-pellet through the door that just missed her ear? Maybe he picked up a bat or knife as they argued? Whatever, he does something outlandish that scares her. She has heard him previously speak or joke of the of how he goes SAS-tactical on hearing noises in his home. She's heard other stories that couldn't be spoken of in court, of his temper, how he's above the law, etc. I don't believe she's a shrinking violet regards arguing and that she gives as good as she gets as do most women in relationships, but he scares her so she flees to the bathroom and locks door clutching clothes. Maybe she has the mobile phones? maybe not?

Version 1: He needs to silence her as he may have done the very bad deed and if she repeats it to friends the next day she, his actions will spoil his reputation and any future sponsorship prospects. Whatever he did, it was something that would make him look bad to women.

Version 2: is the murderous rage due to his jealous insecurities. A full-bodied rugby player is texting and communicating to HIS girlfriend, that may have been enough to set him off. As further incentive, I believe it was their courtship that give her carear a push into the TV show? Maybe she couldn't see a future together and was threatening to move on from him and he now felt 'used'. In his mind he sees HIS Reeva in bed with a muscle-bound man ... "If I can't have her, no-one will".

Either way, he then approaches the bathroom "Get the Fxxx out of my house" speaks for itself. He's trying to cow her, to control her. He uses the bat on the bath panel to immitate a gunshot to scare her but it makes her worse and she starts the screaming ... maybe out of the window. He imagines woken neighbours in dressing gowns, police cars, newspapers and his ruined reputation. He needs to silence her and the 'intruder scenario' springs to mind, he starts shouting "Help, help, help". She realises what he's doing and her screams become primal.

The jeans are outside as she either tried to summon help by waving them or threw them out first planning to follow them herself. The vest is on back-to-front as she dressed in a hurry.

Oscar was wearing his legs as they hadn't been to bed (to sleep). The 'bringing the fans in' story was invented to give him a logical reason for putting them on. Otherwise, he's in bed wearing his legs when the intruder woke him.

The breaking down of the bathroom door is an odd one. Just as odd is the steel access panel on the bath that was heavily dented. Why do that? There was also damage to the bedroom door on the same face as the lock/catch.

His choice of website visits that night? *advertiser censored* to belittle and anger her, the car pages to show her what he WON'T be buying her. His shouts for help could also be attempts at him taunting her by mimicry.

Him shouting for help. Has this explanation been suggested before?
That is a game-changer if true, would mean he thought up the intruder story moments before he shot her. :frown:
 
Reeva was not a first time model when she was dating OP. She also worked for a modeling agency. I doubt very seriously that Reeva needed help from OP on any of her contracts. Perhaps she let him "help" to make him feel better about himself, but she clearly didn't need his help.

MOO

ETA: link to Reeva's Who'swho page
http://whoswho.co.za/reeva-steenkamp-583882

I notice that under Education at the link, only a secondary school is listed. I thought she had a law degree.

eta: never mind. I see it all over the place in google. I guess in SA you get a college degree in law.
 
Definitely not ruling out the possibility that it was a source of disagreement. But I stand by my position that Oscar had more practical knowledge then Reeva did regarding that type of contract. Even if his attorneys handled it, he would have been involved and consulted regarding specifics and advised as to what terms were in his interest or not. Reeva could easily have thought she knew better--especially with her law degree. One of the interesting things to me about the fact pattern in this case is that the hour long yelling earlier in the night was a woman yelling, according to the witnesses.

BBM

See, the thing is, it wouldn't matter if he did or didn't. What matters (to OP) is that HE thought/knew/felt he knew more than Reeva. Regarding everything.
 
Re OP's knowledge of contracts/sponsorships, at the time he killed Reeva he was suing Cassidy Taylor-Memmory for damages (including loss of sponsors) resulting from the assault charge she'd leveled against him in 2009 when he broke a door in anger and pieces injured her leg. OP dropped the suit two weeks before trial began. But on the night he killed Reeva he knew that another criminal complaint/charge would end life as he knew it.

just reading his bail statement again....

A
"There are no outstanding cases, other than the present, being investigated against me by the South African Police Services (“SAPS”)."

was the assault charge not investigated by SAPS. or had the assault charge investigation been completed by feb 2013?

B
"I will be able to raise an appropriate amount to post as bail. I have no knowledge of any evidentiary material which may exist with regard to the allegations levelled against me.

In any event, I believe that whatever such evidence may be, it is in the possession of the police; it is safely secured and I do not have access thereto."

what about the 'missing' phone?



http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-full-court-statement-1718677#ixzz3062u8Uta
 
"People with disabilities are naturally more sensitive than others."

Wow.....just wow!

Not to rehash something I find deplorable but to add to your 'wow' this seems a very common mindset in my day-to-day experiences living with and loving someone disabled. Somehow, in some way, totally regardless of how their physical disability actually affects them, there is a suggestion that there is something inherently 'wrong' with someone who has a physical impairment. That they are automatically mentally or emotionally less proficient than able-bodied people.

I'm married to a guy who is extremely intelligent and has a wicked streak of sarcasm (much to his credit) but quite a few people make incorrect assumptions at seeing him with his crutches (braces). Some nurses even have gone so far as to speak so slowly you'd think my husband, being British, didn't understand english.

Constantly having to prove oneself, when disabled, isn't distinctive to Oscar alone. The overwhelming majority of disabled people struggle daily against erroneous preconceived notions, without the benefit of fame, fortune and acceptance. They often go to bed having 'triumphed over adversity' simply as a matter of sheer necessity. Every day. They're the true heroes in my book.

Just food for thought.

Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.
 
Not to rehash something I find deplorable but to add to your 'wow' this seems a very common mindset in my day-to-day experiences living with and loving someone disabled. Somehow, in some way, totally regardless of how their physical disability actually affects them, there is a suggestion that there is something inherently 'wrong' with someone who has a physical impairment. That they are automatically mentally or emotionally less proficient than able-bodied people.

I'm married to a guy who is extremely intelligent and has a wicked streak of sarcasm (much to his credit) but quite a few people make incorrect assumptions at seeing him with his crutches (braces). Some nurses even have gone so far as to speak so slowly you'd think my husband, being British, didn't understand english.

Constantly having to prove oneself, when disabled, isn't distinctive to Oscar alone. The overwhelming majority of disabled people struggle daily against erroneous preconceived notions, without the benefit of fame, fortune and acceptance. They often go to bed having 'triumphed over adversity' simply as a matter of sheer necessity. Every day. They're the true heroes in my book.

Just food for thought.

Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

i noticed that reeva had 4 months in hospital, and 4 months recovering at home following a riding accident which left her temporarily immobile. i guess she had some first hand experience of this triumph over adversity.

at the same time, i accept that temporary immobility must pale in the face of permanent immobility.
 
BBM

See, the thing is, it wouldn't matter if he did or didn't. What matters (to OP) is that HE thought/knew/felt he knew more than Reeva. Regarding everything.

Maybe, but I have no idea whether that's true or not. Or even if it was, whether it has anything to do with what happened that night. Plenty of perfectly decent men are know-it-alls, especially when it comes to us "little ladies."

jmo
 
Definitely not ruling out the possibility that it was a source of disagreement. But I stand by my position that Oscar had more practical knowledge then Reeva did regarding that type of contract. Even if his attorneys handled it, he would have been involved and consulted regarding specifics and advised as to what terms were in his interest or not. Reeva could easily have thought she knew better--especially with her law degree. One of the interesting things to me about the fact pattern in this case is that the hour long yelling earlier in the night was a woman yelling, according to the witnesses.

I'm of the belief too that if there were an argument, the contract would have been a part of it. Reeva has had to deal with many contracts I'm sure in her profession, she had not long done a mobile phone advert, done many modelling assignments around SA and America, been on that Tropika programme and reports suggest that she was about to embark on something really huge for her career. Maybe, just maybe it wasn't the legal aspects of the contract that they argued about, maybe it was about what it involved: was she going to be working away againa aka Tropika and doing things he didn't approve of? Would she be working with someone he didn't approve of? Did they argue about him not trusting her... it could have been anything I guess (I could be here all day but got ironing to do )
 
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