Flight to London Gatwick crashes at airport in India .June 12 th 2025

[indicolite22]

It's a sign of the times that nowadays even retired NTSB investigators have podcasts. With their knowledge, experience and logic/fact-based approach they are able to dispel numerous wild theories about this crash, put forward by amateurs and some professionals.

 

[PrairieWind]

I think that the switches went with a one second interval would indicate it was not an accident, but purposeful, human manipulation. Either pilot would know that at that low elevation there would not be enough time to restart the engines in time to avoid a crash. I hate to think that someone could do this intentionally, but it certainly looks to be leaning that way.

 

[IQuestion]

I'm not saying I agree with it. But I understand their argument. If they agreed to the first and last 10 minutes, they open the door and they know full well it would not be long and the whole flight is included. They are concerned the video will be misused, and they have every reason to feel that way.

bbm above. I'll bite.....what sort of things occurring in a secured cockpit could ever be used against a pilot? Maybe a better question would be, "What do you not want to be viewed, but is ok to recorded?" Instead of having a He/She vs He/She statements as to what occurred in a cockpit dispute/investigation (in this case a catastrophic event). I'm all for transparency. Gossip, whispers and speculation usually results in more questions than answers....video confirmation/evidence would be a plus in accident investigation.
How many times have we heard, "My home, my rules."??
For instance: An Indian airline has grounded two pilots over allegations that they had a fight and briefly stormed out of the cockpit during a New Year’s Day flight from London to Mumbai.

Pilots grounded after 'midair fight' on London-Mumbai flight

Jet Airways investigating claims that male pilot slapped female colleague, leading pair to briefly leave cockpit unattended

amp.theguardian.com

 

[Dotta]

"Airlines are inspecting Boeing 787 fuel switches after the first Air India crash report put them in the spotlight."​

Paraphrasing:

Air India started carrying out checks of the fuel control switches on its 787s and 737s over the weekend.

No problems were found.

On Monday India's aviation regulator ordered the country's airlines to inspect the fuel control locking feature in accordance with the 2018 advisory.

German Lufthansa and its subsidiary Austrian Airlines confirmed
that checks had been carried out on the fuel control switches on the Boeing 787s
'as a precautionary measure'.

Singapore Airlines and Japan Airlines also confirmed
that they were carrying out checks on the switches.

Airlines are inspecting Boeing 787 fuel switches after the first Air India crash report put them in the spotlight

The preliminary report into Air India Flight 171 said the fuel was cut off to both engines seconds after liftoff, and cited a 2018 FAA advisory.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[Charlot123]

It's a sign of the times that nowadays even retired NTSB investigators have podcasts. With their knowledge, experience and logic/fact-based approach they are able to dispel numerous wild theories about this crash, put forward by amateurs and some professionals.

Yes, but a great podcast about MH 370 explained how Shah did it, not why. While any Malaysian would know the “why” part.

I am just thinking, here is an exceptional group, working under high stress, and not complaining. It is expected that some might break, but the pressure on them is too high.

Same with the ATCs btw. Another high-stress group.

 

[Dotta]

Yes, but a great podcast about MH 370 explained how Shah did it, not why. While any Malaysian would know the “why” part.

I am just thinking, here is an exceptional group, working under high stress, and not complaining. It is expected that some might break, but the pressure on them is too high.

Same with the ATCs btw. Another high-stress group.

These workers are carefully selected.

Because their job requires resistance to stress
and the ability to cope in situations requiring immediate response.

Not everybody can cope.

So...
Not everybody willing is employed.
Only the best of the best.
The most suitable ones.

And they undergo strict medical checks during their career.

JMO

 

[warp3dwing]

These workers are carefully selected.

Because their job requires resistance to stress
and the ability to cope in situations requiring immediate response.

Not everybody can cope.

So...
Not everybody willing is employed.
Only the best of the best.
The most suitable.

And they undergo strict medical checks during their career.

It’s a lot of work just to get to the right seat of a regional airliner. To get to the captain’s seat of a Dreamliner, it takes years of proving the ability to cope, day in and day out.

But an aviation medical exam only looks for very specific things. It’s not a comprehensive medical exam, and any mental health issues must be self-reported by the pilot. Of course, none are disclosed because they’re immediately disqualifying, which creates a huge barrier to care for pilots and controllers.

Pilots struggle with anxiety and depression at the same rates the general population does. Perhaps more so, due to the stress of the job.

 

[Dotta]

It’s a lot of work just to get to the right seat of a regional airliner. To get to the captain’s seat of a Dreamliner, it takes years of proving the ability to cope, day in and day out.

But an aviation medical exam only looks for very specific things. It’s not a comprehensive medical exam, and any mental health issues must be self-reported by the pilot. Of course, none are disclosed because they’re immediately disqualifying, which creates a huge barrier to care for pilots and controllers.

Pilots struggle with anxiety and depression at the same rates the general population does. Perhaps more so, due to the stress of the job.

Well,
Judging by the concept that air travel is the safest
I guess the pilots & controllers
chosen during the highly selective hiring process are indeed selected wisely

The system works!

To satisfaction of millions of passengers around the world.

JMO

 

[warp3dwing]

Well,
Judging by the concept that air travel is the most safe
I guess the pilots & controllers
chosen during the highly selective hiring process are indeed selected wisely

The system works!

To satisfaction of millions of passengers around the world.

JMO

I fully agree with that. The airlines' training regimens and procedures make it incredibly safe.

 

[Charlot123]

It’s a lot of work just to get to the right seat of a regional airliner. To get to the captain’s seat of a Dreamliner, it takes years of proving the ability to cope, day in and day out.

But an aviation medical exam only looks for very specific things. It’s not a comprehensive medical exam, and any mental health issues must be self-reported by the pilot. Of course, none are disclosed because they’re immediately disqualifying, which creates a huge barrier to care for pilots and controllers.

Pilots struggle with anxiety and depression at the same rates the general population does. Perhaps more so, due to the stress of the job.

Yes, and I suspect that the public’s goal is not to demand that the pilots or ATCs are perfect. This is not needed. I hope we, the paying public, have the right to demand airline monopolies that they stop putting unreasonable pressure on pilots and ATCs and make their job palatable.

 

[emirates1957]

bbm above. I'll bite.....what sort of things occurring in a secured cockpit could ever be used against a pilot? Maybe a better question would be, "What do you not want to be viewed, but is ok to recorded?" Instead of having a He/She vs He/She statements as to what occurred in a cockpit dispute/investigation (in this case a catastrophic event). I'm all for transparency. Gossip, whispers and speculation usually results in more questions than answers....video confirmation/evidence would be a plus in accident investigation.
How many times have we heard, "My home, my rules."??
For instance: An Indian airline has grounded two pilots over allegations that they had a fight and briefly stormed out of the cockpit during a New Year’s Day flight from London to Mumbai.

Pilots grounded after 'midair fight' on London-Mumbai flight

Jet Airways investigating claims that male pilot slapped female colleague, leading pair to briefly leave cockpit unattended

amp.theguardian.com

Pilot’s are notorious for voicing opinions about rosters/hours/management/crew/women and the list goes on. I had been on many flights whereby I heard the Capt/F/O arguing only to return to base. Most airlines psych test crews ….. the last thing you need is 2 people with cultural/religion differences locked in a very small space for 8 hours.

 

[Dotta]

Ok folks,
We discussed this earlier, no?
And here it is, in the Media.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1945382105875406987

"Why no cameras in cockpits? ​

Air India crash sparks debate, demand.​

The biggest hurdle to cockpit video recorders are the pilots themselves.

They argue that footage from cockpits would violate privacy
as pilots behave in a carefree manner in high-stress situations,
and thwart the culture where junior pilots question observations and decisions of seniors.

Pilots also fear that cameras might be used to snoop on them by the airline companies.

Then there is the fear that videos from an air crash might be leaked
-- like audio from flight recorders has in some instances --
and end up scarring the relatives of the victims.

The opposition to cockpit cameras comes mostly from unions in the US,
where they are influential
given the enormity of the aviation industry and the number of pilots."

 

[Dotta]

"Even the insinuation
that a pilot’s error could be behind the crash
has angered the community.

An Indian pilots’ association rejected the presumption of pilot error in the Ahmedabad crash.

The Airline Pilots' Association of India (ALPA-India), which represents Indian pilots at the Montreal-based International Federation of Air Line Pilots’ Associations,

called for 'fair, fact-based inquiry'.

'The pilots body must now be made part of the probe,
at least as observers',

ALPA India president Sam Thomas said on Sunday."

https://twitter.com/x/status/1945379610721477042

 

[Dotta]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1945285831167504637

 

[Charlot123]

Ok folks,
We discussed this earlier, no?
And here it is, in the Media.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1945382105875406987

"Why no cameras in cockpits? ​

Air India crash sparks debate, demand.​

The biggest hurdle to cockpit video recorders are the pilots themselves.

They argue that footage from cockpits would violate privacy
as pilots behave in a carefree manner in high-stress situations,
and thwart the culture where junior pilots question observations and decisions of seniors.

Pilots also fear that cameras might be used to snoop on them by the airline companies.

Then there is the fear that videos from an air crash might be leaked
-- like audio from flight recorders has in some instances --
and end up scarring the relatives of the victims.

The opposition to cockpit cameras comes mostly from unions in the US,
where they are influential
given the enormity of the aviation industry and the number of pilots."

A regular camera wouldn’t have withstood the fire. Of the black boxes, only one worked, remember?

So construction-wise, to make a camera that could withstand water/fire/impact? Or, a regular one. That would be sending images in real time?

What do people think?

 

[IQuestion]

Ok folks,
We discussed this earlier, no?
And here it is, in the Media.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1945382105875406987

"Why no cameras in cockpits? ​

Air India crash sparks debate, demand.​

The biggest hurdle to cockpit video recorders are the pilots themselves.

They argue that footage from cockpits would violate privacy
as pilots behave in a carefree manner in high-stress situations,
and thwart the culture where junior pilots question observations and decisions of seniors.

Pilots also fear that cameras might be used to snoop on them by the airline companies.

Then there is the fear that videos from an air crash might be leaked
-- like audio from flight recorders has in some instances --
and end up scarring the relatives of the victims.

The opposition to cockpit cameras comes mostly from unions in the US,
where they are influential
given the enormity of the aviation industry and the number of pilots."

Yes DOTTA, we did discuss it earlier. And of course I had to do my research and found some airlines ALREADY HAVE CAMERAS IN THE COCKPITS OF THEIR PLANES!!! Imagine that? And in no known case, thus far, has it become a detriment. ALPA is a wonderful union...Airline Pilots Association: They strive to keep high standards for training and vigilantly represent their members from unfair treatment, being overworked, respecting seniority, labor contracts and much more. I GET IT! Heck, I'd be the first person to sign up for ALPA!! I admire their support of other unions within their industry. But again I ask, "If everything is recorded on audio anyway, why not just aim the camera at instruments & hands?" Unless there is an incident, no one is going to pull the cockpit recordings anyway. Right?
Oh sigh, our expectations of privacy is slowly becoming a thing of the past anyway...surveillance & video is everywhere. Att'd YT has some good explanations.

 

[warp3dwing]

Yes DOTTA, we did discuss it earlier. And of course I had to do my research and found some airlines ALREADY HAVE CAMERAS IN THE COCKPITS OF THEIR PLANES!!! Imagine that? And in no known case, thus far, has it become a detriment. ALPA is a wonderful union...Airline Pilots Association: They strive to keep high standards for training and vigilantly represent their members from unfair treatment, being overworked, respecting seniority, labor contracts and much more. I GET IT! Heck, I'd be the first person to sign up for ALPA!! I admire their support of other unions within their industry. But again I ask, "If everything is recorded on audio anyway, why not just aim the camera at instruments & hands?" Unless there is an incident, no one is going to pull the cockpit recordings anyway. Right?
Oh sigh, our expectations of privacy is slowly becoming a thing of the past anyway...surveillance & video is everywhere. Att'd YT has some good explanations.

One argument against video in the flight deck is that pretty much all airline accident probable causes can been determined without them. The CVR and FDR have been enough. But this accident might turn out to be a case for video.

The preliminary report didn’t explain who said what, but the investigators know. And although they may be excised in the final report, they’ll have all the extraneous words and interactions that may be telling.

 

[Charlot123]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1945285831167504637

MOO - Lubich was the doctors’ mistake. That was not a pilot “developing depression”; Lubitz had prior history of depression and suicide attempts. He never should have been allowed to be certified as a pilot.

Kudos to Germany for being so open about the case. Full transparency is the best approach.

MH 370 makes me angry. This is what known sources write. Who are the pilots of flight MH370?.

Forums question everything, mainly, his personal life. I am merely thinking that Malaysian PM of 2014, Najib Razak, is now in jail for major corruption. And that his government was not at all interested in disclosing that Shah, an in-law and friend of Anwar Ibrahim, Malaysian opposition leader jailed on March 7, 2014, abducted and crashed the plane on March 8, 2014…Let that sink.

And that Anwar Ibrahim, now PM of Malaysia since 2022, initially denied own connection with Shah.

When they lie, how does it help the investigation? If Najib Razak were honest about Shah, maybe the poor relatives of the victims would have had a closure. Long ago.

China Eastern Airlines crash 5735 IMHO would have been totally preventable had they treated the pilot normally.

We understand, it can happen anywhere. We can’t blame China, or Singapore, or Malaysia or Germany. It is how the aftermath is handled that makes the difference, because the world needs to make changes. Maybe India will be like Germany?

And to remember, there is a long list of heroic pilots who either tried to, or even saved the planes and passengers. Perhaps on AI 171 flight, one of the pilots was a hero, too, just didn't have enough time.

 

[sds71]

A black-box recording of dialogue between the flight’s two pilots indicates it was the captain who turned off switches that controlled fuel flowing to the plane’s two engines, according to people familiar with U.S. officials’ early assessment of evidence uncovered in the crash investigation.

The first officer who was flying the Boeing 787 Dreamliner asked the more-experienced captain why he moved the switches to the “cutoff” position after it climbed off the runway, these people said. The first officer expressed surprise and then panicked, these people said, while the captain seemed to remain calm.

Details in the preliminary report also suggest it was the captain who turned off the switches, according to people familiar with the matter, U.S. pilots and safety experts tracking the probe. The report didn’t say whether turning off the switches might have been accidental or deliberate.

https://www.wsj.com/world/asia/air-india-crash-senior-pilot-eab72db5?st=QEtZ5v&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

 

[australianwebsleuth]

A black-box recording of dialogue between the flight’s two pilots indicates it was the captain who turned off switches that controlled fuel flowing to the plane’s two engines, according to people familiar with U.S. officials’ early assessment of evidence uncovered in the crash investigation.

The first officer who was flying the Boeing 787 Dreamliner asked the more-experienced captain why he moved the switches to the “cutoff” position after it climbed off the runway, these people said. The first officer expressed surprise and then panicked, these people said, while the captain seemed to remain calm.

Details in the preliminary report also suggest it was the captain who turned off the switches, according to people familiar with the matter, U.S. pilots and safety experts tracking the probe. The report didn’t say whether turning off the switches might have been accidental or deliberate.

https://www.wsj.com/world/asia/air-india-crash-senior-pilot-eab72db5?st=QEtZ5v&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

It’s good to see confirmed what most of us think what happened.

It’s impossible to know whether this is intentional or unintentional with absolute certainty. How do you record what’s going on inside their head.