Things LE should have done differently?

[genericwhitemale]

Did they record any calls?

More likely they traced the routing information for the calls from the phone company's records. Knowing the area where the calls originated would not require them to have been listening in.

The Barthelemy family lawyer has said he "heard" the calls. So yeah, I believe they were recorded.


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[Tugela]

I also think the police are a lot closer to solving the case than we think. It's a given that police will know much, much more than they tell the public. I don't think they have enough to nail someone yet, but that they have a few very promising suspects but they need more evidence to actually make an arrest. Unless the killer is a massive genius or LE in the area are awful (which they don't seem to be), LE has probably found at least one piece of evidence that can point them in the right direction. The oldest body found was from 1996 if I remember correctly; NO WAY did the killer not make a mistake in the 14 years he was using the area as a dumping ground.

The bodies associated with the LISK MO dated 2007-2010. The older bodies are probably not related to him/her.

That is a smaller gap, with fairly long periods between. So, probably not many mistakes.

The issue LE have is that there is pretty much no evidence. Without that they can't really make any progress.

 

[hawkshaw]

MY guess is that the person who made those calls is NOT the killer. He is just some kook that came across the cell phone and thought he would have some fun tormenting the family.

I am more interested in hearing the 911 call made by SG. I am interested in why a homicide detective would take the time to bother to write a letter to Newsday that he heard the tape and could find no evidence SG believed her life was in peril.

What are they hiding, and why are they hiding it?

 

[genericwhitemale]

MY guess is that the person who made those calls is NOT the killer. He is just some kook that came across the cell phone and thought he would have some fun tormenting the family.

I am more interested in hearing the 911 call made by SG. I am interested in why a homicide detective would take the time to bother to write a letter to Newsday that he heard the tape and could find no evidence SG believed her life was in peril.

What are they hiding, and why are they hiding it?

Fair enough. Most people, including Richard Dormer, believe that it WAS the killer who tormented the Barthelemy family. Apparently there was some things said to the younger sister that only someone with prior knowledge of both Melissa and Amanda would have known. I guess the popular theory is that Melissa fed her murderer this info before he killed her, and then the killer relayed this to Amanda during the series of calls she received from her sisters cell. That sort of rules out the theory some Joe Schmo picked up the discarded phone and started having some fun.


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[giagreen]

MY guess is that the person who made those calls is NOT the killer. He is just some kook that came across the cell phone and thought he would have some fun tormenting the family.

I am more interested in hearing the 911 call made by SG. I am interested in why a homicide detective would take the time to bother to write a letter to Newsday that he heard the tape and could find no evidence SG believed her life was in peril.

What are they hiding, and why are they hiding it?

I also would love to know more about SG 911 call. The fact that not even her mother has been allowed to hear the tape and LE was sp quick to determine that there was nothing significant on it makes me wonder what was really on it that they don't want the SK to know they have.
Also the way they were so quick to say SG had drowned makes me wonder if they have something on someone and are waiting for the right things they need to snag him.
However, I have to disagree with just some random weirdo calling the family. Because at the time of those phone calls MBB was only missing and this man had stated that he had killed her. He new to much to just be a random prank caller.

 

[Tugela]

MY guess is that the person who made those calls is NOT the killer. He is just some kook that came across the cell phone and thought he would have some fun tormenting the family.

I am more interested in hearing the 911 call made by SG. I am interested in why a homicide detective would take the time to bother to write a letter to Newsday that he heard the tape and could find no evidence SG believed her life was in peril.

What are they hiding, and why are they hiding it?

You reached that conclusion because it doesn't fit your conspiracy theory?

 

[genericwhitemale]

While this may not be in popular opinion around here, I don't really need to hear the SG 911 call. Clearly something went wrong. This whole case is bizarre. Why did CPH call Mari Gilbert and then claim he didn't? Why does Dormer think she simply "got tired and drowned?" We could debate those questions alone for days, or even weeks. In fact, I'm pretty sure we already have. I personally don't believe SG was a victim of the LISK. Assuming it is one guy and not many killers who coincidentally all used the same dump site. I think we can likely say those four bodies that were found so close together were the work of one person. I'm not sure where Jessica Taylor fits into all this. Back in 2003 when her headless, handless body was discovered in Manorville and it started making news perhaps the killer decided (smartly) that it was time to find a new dump site. That new site might not even have been Gilgo. There could be bodies somewhere else just waiting to be found that are 5, 6, 7 years old. Who knows? The fact Taylor's hands and head were found so close to the 'Gilgo 4' is huge. If nothing else it provides us with a timeline, as vague as it may be. As far as Hackett goes, I just don't think CPH killed anyone. There just isn't enough evidence to say that he committed any kind of murder. Why did he call the mother of Shannan Gilbert? Who knows. Perhaps he wanted to put an end to all the speculation as to where she was. Maybe he wanted the media to disappear from his beloved beach front community, and by telling someone that she had been there with him, safe and sound, well it must mean she's still alive, right? She left his care under her own free will. No crime there. People do weird things in certain situations. It doesn't mean CPH killed her.

 

[WI1987]

The one thing I would have done differently is to be more open with the media ... now I would not share every little detail but I would have reminded the media every so often that we are still working the case, still following leads, etc ... and more importantly the case would remain visible to the general public. Maybe someone might remember something, etc.

As it presently stands the SCPD is giving off vibes that they don't even care about solving this case. Out of sight, out of mind.

 

[genericwhitemale]

As it presently stands the SCPD is giving off vibes that they don't even care about solving this case. Out of sight, out of mind.

Agreed. At least until his new dump site is discovered.


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[giagreen]

While this may not be in popular opinion around here, I don't really need to hear the SG 911 call. Clearly something went wrong. This whole case is bizarre. Why did CPH call Mari Gilbert and then claim he didn't? Why does Dormer think she simply "got tired and drowned?" We could debate those questions alone for days, or even weeks. In fact, I'm pretty sure we already have. I personally don't believe SG was a victim of the LISK. Assuming it is one guy and not many killers who coincidentally all used the same dump site. I think we can likely say those four bodies that were found so close together were the work of one person. I'm not sure where Jessica Taylor fits into all this. Back in 2003 when her headless, handless body was discovered in Manorville and it started making news perhaps the killer decided (smartly) that it was time to find a new dump site. That new site might not even have been Gilgo. There could be bodies somewhere else just waiting to be found that are 5, 6, 7 years old. Who knows? The fact Taylor's hands and head were found so close to the 'Gilgo 4' is huge. If nothing else it provides us with a timeline, as vague as it may be. As far as Hackett goes, I just don't think CPH killed anyone. There just isn't enough evidence to say that he committed any kind of murder. Why did he call the mother of Shannan Gilbert? Who knows. Perhaps he wanted to put an end to all the speculation as to where she was. Maybe he wanted the media to disappear from his beloved beach front community, and by telling someone that she had been there with him, safe and sound, well it must mean she's still alive, right? She left his care under her own free will. No crime there. People do weird things in certain situations. It doesn't mean CPH killed her.

I couldn't agree with you more about CPH not being involved. That is where I get stumped about the 911 calls. I don't really need to hear them as well but if I was SG mother I would want to just to have some type of peace knowing what was said and hearing her voice. So it bothers me a little they won't let her. And then it starts to make me wonder why....I don't think CPH is the sk....along with MP or JB. So what in the world could be on them tapes that they don't want the public to know. Or that they won't even let the mother hear it.

 

[hawkshaw]

TUGLEA - it does or doesn't fit into my conspiracy theory. It really has nothing to do with it. The 911 calls. That is really up to the investigators to determine if the call should be released. What does disturb me is the idea a then-working detective took the time to write a letter to Newsday to tell us there were no signs of distress on that call. That detective is no dope or a runaway train going off the rails. Truth is his reputation is that of a pretty damned good detective. Good detectives don't take it upon themselves to do such a thing.

I knew of several detectives that leaked information to the media for personal glory. My limited knowledge of SCPD, and from what I hear of Det.Stephan is he is not one of those glory hounds looking for attention. The 911 thing only came to my attention is because someone in the SCPD brought it to my attention when Det.Stephan was told by someone to write that letter - IMHO, that is.

I have a few reports that Det.Stephan wrote on another case. I found him to be very thorough in how he investigates murder cases. I wouldn't want him to be investigating a crime that I had done.

I believe that letter was intended to be a classic case of misdirection. The question is WHY?

The very idea SG went to the same location where 4 other gals that advertised on Craigslist and was found dead - for any reason is somehow a connection to all the murders. The idea the ME has yet to confirm a cause of death only adds to the mystery.

They can come up with any theory they like that SG was bi-polar, drug induced, or whatever, the fact still remains she went to Brewer's house to service a client and she was an escort, and wound up dead is evidence that can't be denied is her profession led to her death, in one way or another.

 

[anny ominus]

a student of john ray's told me that mari and john ray have listened to the 911 call.apparently he discusses his cases with his students.

 

[giagreen]

a student of john ray's told me that mari and john ray have listened to the 911 call.apparently he discusses his cases with his students.

So did the student say what he heard at all? Or what he thinks of the tape them?

 

[Aleph]

a student of john ray's told me that mari and john ray have listened to the 911 call.apparently he discusses his cases with his students.

He's a law professor?

 

[Samantha Spade]

Things LE should have done differently?

since I am not privy to info on what they have really done, it is difficult for me to answer that one, but I do suggest that some of them take acting lessons before prematurely announcing to the public how confident they are about a cause of death.

 

[genericwhitemale]

Things LE should have done differently?

Well, yeah. More or less how would you have preferred they handle the case? What mistakes, if any, have they made? I think we can start talking about this whole scenario in the past tense because it's pretty obvious to me the guy isn't going to be caught.


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[giagreen]

I believe that this guy is going to be caught. The more I have seen and thought about how LE has acted and the things that have been said...I think LE has their eye on a guy. I just don't think they have enough to get him. Some of the crap they have told the public to me looks like they are setting up a false security for the perp.
There are reason's they have done things the way they have. IDK maybe I still have a little too much faith in LE but I doubt they are hiding things to protect the perp. Or that all the members of LE are so stupid that they have screwed up the case 100%.
The only thing I think they should do and need to still do is release some of the tape from the perp calling MB little sister. I understand maybe some of what was said is maybe something the public should not hear but you would think they could release a little part of it so we can hear his voice and maybe one of us can identify him. Unless if they know who's voice it is and they just need more to go ahead with charges.

 

[genericwhitemale]

I believe that this guy is going to be caught.

I wholeheartedly disagree. It appears he hasn't made any mistakes. Either he's just lucky, or really good. I have no idea which it is. And it really doesn't matter. It's unfortunate justice will never be served. I feel for the families. Those girls deserved better regardless of their profession. There's been some speculation here lately that LE knows far more than they're letting on. I believe that to be false.


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[hawkshaw]

They say that the worst person a good poker player can play with is a person that doesn't know how to play poker. In the short run a good poker can be hurt bad because he can't figure out what the other player is doing. If you get a run of bad luck and the other player gets his cards filled in when a good player wouldn't go in the losses can be heavy.

In this case may be an example of this. I can't figure out why Dormer said the things he did while the DA contradicts him at that early stages of the investigation.

It is the job of any DA to stay the F out of it until such time the police brings him evidence of the crime for the DA to prosecute. Until such time the DA should keep his mouth shut, and should only offer legal advice to the police when they come across legal issues that may help them further the investigation.

How any reputable police officer, or in this case, the police commissioner would go public and state SG died from natural causes from weather elements when the ME has yet to file an official cause of death is NUTS. How the DA and PC can differ as to how many people are involved in these homicides, and in the SG case, an accidental death is, imo the height of ridiculousness.

 

[giagreen]

I guess I am just refusing to give up hope this soon. In all reality it's only been three years sense all this has come to light. I mean look at the green river killer and btk I learned something from those cases and it's that some serial killers are patient and wait a long time to kill but they will kill again. I also learned that everybody was blaming LE when it came to the btk and green river but in the end turned out they were doing their job and eventually the perp slipped up...and even just the girls in Ohio that were found after 10 years.
This guy IMO is not going to stop killing. More bodies will be found over time. And as far as we know there has been more bodies found.
And it is sad to say but in the world of serial killers four victims in three years is not such a long stretch as to give up hope.
Luck was on the side of the LISK before because they didn't know about him. But now they do so it's a whole different ball game. They are watching now and waiting for something and he will kill again.
Not only that but the perp did mess up when he used the burlap. That says something about him. It is not time to give up. That is the worst thing we could do to these woman who deserve justice.
And the funny thing about poker is that it is just the luck of the draw sometimes and the good poker player might lose a game or two but he won't lose every game. I believe that this serial killer is just on his round one...the luck won't be on his side next time because we know about him now. I don't know...You guys can all give up hope but I'm not. And I am also refusing to turn my back on LE just yet. I am refusing to give up hope for these woman and their families.