THIS article says what I believe about the motive for the murder and who the perp was

[Sabot]

What I find hard to understand is how anyone managed to kill that child and dump her body in the basement without the rest of the people in the house hearing anything.
And since the DNA belongs to a stranger, how did he know the layout of the house, and about the little known room that even the family didn't bother to search in the beginning.
I am not actually casting aspersions here, but I would like some possible explanations if there are any.

 

[Lera213]

Wow very interesting and very plausible.

Suppose after her reading and maybe with some mental illness PR killed JB to rid Satan in that she was thinking that JB turned into that Golden Icon ie.. pageants (Mosses/10 Commandments) Therefore she gave JB to the Lord thinking if she sacrificed JB to cleanse herself and JB, God would resurrect her, or forgive her...something along those lines if you all know what I'm trying to say.


DNA I think is transfer, either from another object, or some LAB person.

 

[Sabot]

Wow very interesting and very plausible.

Suppose after her reading and maybe with some mental illness PR killed JB to rid Satan in that she was thinking that JB turned into that Golden Icon ie.. pageants (Mosses/10 Commandments) Therefore she gave JB to the Lord thinking if she sacrificed JB to cleanse herself and JB, God would resurrect her, or forgive her...something along those lines if you all know what I'm trying to say.


DNA I think is transfer, either from another object, or some LAB person.

Join the Club, because I am struggling here. Not that it matters all that much any more.

Yes, you are right. The DNA could have been transfered. This is why Stranger DNA is not to be trusted.

 

[Lera213]

One thing is for sure in my mind is that PR planned this. No way that note was written and thought out that night, the lifelike baby doll for Christmas, changing the color of the tree to purple which gives biblical meaning. To me it seemed she planned this.

My thinking is, in her mind she felt as though she got the cancer as punishment for putting her daughter in pageants or something else and she had to sacrifice the one thing that she loved most and that was JB. Maybe she thought she was possessed and to fight satan for some reason she thinks God told her to atone by offering up JB.

 

[DeeDee249]

He would have done a better job of it. These are not the type of people that would have killed a child in this way, and if it was just Patsy, John would not have been a part of it anymore than most parents would coveup for one another--I'm talking normal upper middle class, educated parents.....neither knew the movie lines....no lights were blaring from the house that night--it's ludicrous to continuing saying a Ramsey did it.

What "type" would that be? This kind of thing transcends class, income, and racial lines. I have had murder touch my own family. Here's a clue- anyone is capable of anything. The end.
There might not have been lights "blaring" (what intruders would do so?) but there WERE some unusual lighting patterns that night which were unusual enough to be mentioned by neighbors who noticed them.
The most telling was the "strange moving lights" seen by a neighbor in the kitchen of the R house around midnight- right around the time another neighbor heard the scream. A large flashlight was found on a counter in the kitchen area- a perfect source for the "moving lights"- someone walking around in the darkened room with that very flashlight.
Another neighbor mentioned that the sunroom light was OFF that night and they had never seen it turned off in the years the R had lived there. It was unusual enough for them to make a point of noticing it. People living in a neighborhood do get used to the sounds and patterns of their neighbors- things like lights on and off at certain times, car doors, comings and goings, garage doors, etc. And people notice when things are not the way they usually are.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

One thing is for sure in my mind is that PR planned this. No way that note was written and thought out that night, the lifelike baby doll for Christmas, changing the color of the tree to purple which gives biblical meaning. To me it seemed she planned this.

My thinking is, in her mind she felt as though she got the cancer as punishment for putting her daughter in pageants or something else and she had to sacrifice the one thing that she loved most and that was JB. Maybe she thought she was possessed and to fight satan for some reason she thinks God told her to atone by offering up JB.

Patsy got cancer before she entered JonBenet in pageants.

 

[Sabot]

What type of Cancer did she have?

 

[eileenhawkeye]

What type of Cancer did she have?

Ovarian

 

[pingpong]

What I find hard to understand is how anyone managed to kill that child and dump her body in the basement without the rest of the people in the house hearing anything.
And since the DNA belongs to a stranger, how did he know the layout of the house, and about the little known room that even the family didn't bother to search in the beginning.
I am not actually casting aspersions here, but I would like some possible explanations if there are any.

JonBenet was not killed inside the house?

 

[DeeDee249]

JonBenet was not killed inside the house?

Yes, she was killed in the house. What isn't proven is where in the house she was killed. There is some evidence that suggests there was a lapse of up to an hour between the head bash (which would have killed her by itself) and her death, and it was not proved whether the head bash or strangulation came first. There was some evidence of creatinine (dried urine) on the carpet in the basement just outside the wineceller. This may suggest she died there, regardless of where the actual assaults took place. The house was released back to the family FAR too soon, and unfortunately, the exact room she died in was never determined.

 

[SyraKelly]

I have not posted on this forum a lot,but I would like to thank DeeDee for all her well informed posts..I thought I knew this case,but there were things I just recently learned through her posts..I had not a clue fibers from John's sweater were found in JB underpants,not a clue the Santa bear came from one of JB pageants and not a clue the rest of the bloomies underpants where never found..although I still don't understand why they put them on her after they killed her!!I am working on that one!!
I do not believe PR killed JB for her faith!

 

[Sabot]

Ovarian

Thank you.

 

[Maikai]

Well, I hate to pile on. KK already gutted your assertions (which is not hard, I admit). But I hate to feel like I'm left out, so here goes.

As has been pointed out, leaving the misquote about football players aside, you seem to have it all backwards. I don't think anyone is suggesting that having the faith leads to killing. Rather, it seems that it's being suggested that Patsy, like MANY people who find themselves in a fix, was trying to find some kind of holy good in something terrible. Kind of reminds me of all the death row inmates who claim to find God.



Oh, please! Don't waste our time with that dogmess!



Well, that's not quite true, is it? I understand that KK has it correct: NO one was discounted as a suspect based on a lack of a DNA hit alone. It was sort of the final nail in the coffin, if you will. And as for being good enough to be in the database, you seem to have a short memory. The articles written about how it was "accepted" (and I use the term loosely) into the database made it very clear that the DNA did not meet the minimum standards for inclusion and had to be, for lack of a better term, rammed through at the behest of the DA's office, with the understanding that if they didn't include it, it would mean a lot of bad publicity.



On the contrary. Not only should it be minimized, I'd discount it altogther!

Perhaps I didn't read Shapiro's article through, but I got the impression that he was blaming her religious inclinations for the murder. I think you're wrong about the DNA not meeting minimum standards for inclusion---especially the last DNA that was found years later. The DNA cannot be discounted...it was found under her nails on some of the spots on her underwear, and along the waistband. It was a problem for the Grand Jury...and Barry Scheck has been silent on it. He wouldn't discount it for his innocence project.

I could have been wrong about the football player...but it was a strong blow with a lot of force behind it, and there were nail marks in her neck from the garrotte. I can't imagine even bad parents murdering a child that way....not to mention the stun gun. There is plenty of exculpatory evidence.

 

[Maikai]

What "type" would that be? This kind of thing transcends class, income, and racial lines. I have had murder touch my own family. Here's a clue- anyone is capable of anything. The end.
There might not have been lights "blaring" (what intruders would do so?) but there WERE some unusual lighting patterns that night which were unusual enough to be mentioned by neighbors who noticed them.
The most telling was the "strange moving lights" seen by a neighbor in the kitchen of the R house around midnight- right around the time another neighbor heard the scream. A large flashlight was found on a counter in the kitchen area- a perfect source for the "moving lights"- someone walking around in the darkened room with that very flashlight.
Another neighbor mentioned that the sunroom light was OFF that night and they had never seen it turned off in the years the R had lived there. It was unusual enough for them to make a point of noticing it. People living in a neighborhood do get used to the sounds and patterns of their neighbors- things like lights on and off at certain times, car doors, comings and goings, garage doors, etc. And people notice when things are not the way they usually are.

It's more than just the "type." It's all the elements of the crime, when connected make it unlikely the Ramseys were involved in this crime--be it an accident or intentional.
The light that was off was outside the sunroom...don't know if that is relevant or not, or if it just burnt out on its own.

It's too bad the neighbors didn't take more notice of the moving lights---could have been someone using a flashlight. Especially going into the basement---would the perp have turned the lights on? Considering the temperament of Patsy, she wouldn't have had the presence of mind to creep around the house without lights on doing a coverup.....doesn't make sense......and a big thing to me is, you can't write what you don't know....there is no indication Patsy or John knew the movie lines.

 

[Maikai]

What I find hard to understand is how anyone managed to kill that child and dump her body in the basement without the rest of the people in the house hearing anything.
And since the DNA belongs to a stranger, how did he know the layout of the house, and about the little known room that even the family didn't bother to search in the beginning.
I am not actually casting aspersions here, but I would like some possible explanations if there are any.

Remember the guy that got into George Harrisons very secure compound? He had never been there either. There's been much smaller houses where someone got in and took a child and no one heard anything, including trailers. The layout of the house isn't complicated--especially if someone was in there while the Ramseys were gone---or if they had been in it before. All they had to do was take JBR from the bed and get her downstairs. IMO, she did make a fuss, and the perp(s) lost their temper to silence her. The carpeting would muffle footsteps. I don't know if the scream the neighbor heard is valid or not---or the grate noise. In the basement is where I think the kidnapping plan went awry---amateurs at kidnapping.

 

[BBB167893]

He would have done a better job of it.

What do you base that idea on? And I wasn't asking WHAT, I was asking WHY. Would you have us believe that he'd just throw his own wife to the dogs? He'd already lost one daughter, now another, and if he did that, he'd lose Patsy too. (That's assuming that he wasn't involved in some way.)

These are not the type of people that would have killed a child in this way

Give me a BREAK. Do not ever tell me that someone is not the "type" to do something. If I had a nickel for every time I've heard that about a killer, I'd have my rent paid for the next year, easy.

and if it was just Patsy, John would not have been a part of it anymore than most parents would cover up for one another--

Plenty of parents have covered for others. It's not unthinkable. I wish it was.

I'm talking normal upper middle class, educated parents.....

So are we.

neither knew the movie lines....

Neither did the person who wrote the RN, in case you haven't noticed!

And for that matter, who says they DIDN'T? Oh, that's right: THEY did.

no lights were blaring from the house that night--

So?

it's ludicrous to continuing saying a Ramsey did it.

I'll TELL you what's ludicrous, Maikai: the intruder theory. I plan to KEEP saying it!

 

[BBB167893]

Respectfully, I don't see how you can generalize about this. What "type of people" kill a child in this way? And, many parents cover up for one another...this isn't at all difficult to accept. What makes John so different?

I wish you better luck, nr4tw. I've been saying that for years.

 

[norest4thewicked]

What do you base that idea on? And I wasn't asking WHAT, I was asking WHY. Would you have us believe that he'd just throw his own wife to the dogs? He'd already lost one daughter, now another, and if he did that, he'd lose Patsy too. (That's assuming that he wasn't involved in some way.)



Give me a BREAK. Do not ever tell me that someone is not the "type" to do something. If I had a nickel for every time I've heard that about a killer, I'd have my rent paid for the next year, easy.



Plenty of parents have covered for others. It's not unthinkable. I wish it was.



So are we.



Neither did the person who wrote the RN, in case you haven't noticed!

And for that matter, who says they DIDN'T? Oh, that's right: THEY did.



So?



I'll TELL you what's ludicrous, Maikai: the intruder theory. I plan to KEEP saying it!

Super Dave...well said! I totally agree with you!

 

[BBB167893]

I agree. DNA is often useless in establishing guilt. But it is there, and must have got there somehow, although we aren't going to find out how until we found out who it belongs to, or even if they can establish that it does.

You may be right.

A reasonable doubt might well be easy to find.

Perhaps. Sadly, most jurors are easily taken in by that sort of thing. Or, along the same lines, it would be used as an EXCUSE.

What I find hard to understand is how anyone managed to kill that child and dump her body in the basement without the rest of the people in the house hearing anything.
And since the DNA belongs to a stranger, how did he know the layout of the house, and about the little known room that even the family didn't bother to search in the beginning.

Nice to hear some common sense.

 

[BBB167893]

Super Dave...well said! I totally agree with you!

I'm just getting warmed up.