Through a Juror's Eyes/What do those who haven't followed the case believe? (Merged)

[bayouland]

It was placed over Caylee's mouth AND nose (3 pieces) BEFORE she died, so there's absolutely not theory she could make up on the stand that could explain that.

I hope you continue to post your thoughts on here because i agree 110% with your opinion.[/QUOTE]

Are you sure that the tape was placed before she died? I would love to hear for certain that is true because what I read is that it was placed pre-decomposition. To me that means it was placed before she died OR soon afterwards. I would love to get clarification on this.

 

[Teresa]

My husband has not listened to anything to do with this case before the trial. He just didn't understand my desire to follow it. Anyhow, he has heard some testimony here and there. As many of you know he formed his own opinion. A darn good opinion too! He believes in her guilt from what he's heard. As he put it, "That defense lawyer is a joke."

Teresa

 

[Bobbisangel]

I've seen new people on this forum here, who have not been following this case since day 31, who believe the sex abuse occurred. I've also seen that on the WFTV blog comments as well. So for people who haven't been following this case, JB's opening statements are quite powerful.

But the jurors will hear the jail tapes, Cindy Anthony and George and all of the witnesses. They will hear it all from start to finish from the Pros not just a little bit and then make a judgement. If they are listening to Casey tell George what a wonderful dad he is...the best dad and grandfather ever they will wonder about her accusations. A person can't just hear a little bit and then decide if a person is guilty or innocent. Thank God the jurors will sit and listen to all of the evidence. I think they will come to the conclusion that Biaz is full of it.

 

[Soulmagent]

As someone who has been following this case from "day 31" I really enjoy reading the responses and fresh sets of eyes . Since you posed the BBM question above I wonder if you have a perspective on something that was going through my mind on this issue: should they have allowed the evidence to remain "wet" and possibly ferment or mold? I feel that may have contaminated the evidence more than allowing it to dry out. I just feel like that was a no win situation for the state...but looking very forward to anyone's thoughts on this topic.

I think alot of people sometimes miss what Baez is doing in court when he does them .But it could be because he doesnt make himself clear all the time, but sometimes he does. He goes the long way arround all the time and makes it harder then it had to be and it doesnt come off smooth.

The witness was asked by the SA if the cans were empty. The witness said they were.

Baez was pointing out that they were empty and really there was no way to tell if they were at first because of the drying process. So empty was the only thing he could say. Baez needed to point that out. And it made the state look as if they were being sneaky. Which they do to themself alot . Even if Baez looks like a heel.


Of course no one expects them to keep the trash wet. Just to note its condition before the drying room. It was misleading to state that can was empty when not even the state can present that as a fact ,yet they tried to. IMO. It was a half fact.

Drying rooms are interesting Other things are in the drying rooms not just evidence from one case.
And the drying room stinks.

 

[Nali87]

Hi all,

Just an update from where I (we) see it:

1) My spouse and I agree that the air samples, in order to be considered, had to have been collected in a "clean room" type environment. That wasn't done, so we discount it.
2) Prosecution blew it. They had to admit that Dr. Vass identified and testified about the wrong can. Baez made a good point - this was a research lab - not a forensics lab; As a juror, I would "throw out" his testimony. He and the prosecution are not reliable - they have made mistakes.
3) I don't think the prosecution needs the testimony of Dr. Vass - I believe the other people who have testified about the decomp smell in the car...especially CA's 911 call...and the tow truck driver...
4) The FBI "expert" reported findings on the "chloroform" to be "consistent with" chloroform. Not definitely chloroform. I heard that, and I think the jury did too. Just like the hair, with the supposed decomp band around the root end - they couldn't say definitively. It was "consistent with"...
5) The K-9 officer who testified today...I believe him. I have a german shep and I know how good her nose is...but he and Gerus never found any of Caylee's remains...right? So what did his testimony prove? We have to consider what that means...that's what I would be thinking as a juror...
Peace

Now I'm not a sctientist but I highly doubt you'll ever find a (wo)man of science who will ever say it was "definitely" anything. Mostly because no test is ever 100% accurate. I don't think you'll ever get a perfect fit. I think what they did is find the best plausible logical scientifical explanation for their findings, based on decades of research and experiments. Now I'm not a chemist, but we do get statistical courses and the one thing they stress is you'll never get 1.0 (perfect fit) explanation for anything. I assume in scientifical tests it's probably the same. Even DNA testing is often allotted a small percentage of error, often a tenth of a percent, and not considered 100% (definitely) reliable, although it's pretty close.


http://www.forensicscience.org/resources/dna-forensics/

 

[crimesnooper]

[Good point IMHO. From what I understood from Baez's questioning is this:
1) a wet swimsuit thrown in the trunk may have produced chloroform (via chlorine?)
respectfully snipped.

Another poster on a different thread said that the Anthonys stated they did not use chlorine in their pool. They used another, not chlorine-based, pool cleaner.

 

[Soulmagent]

[Good point IMHO. From what I understood from Baez's questioning is this:
1) a wet swimsuit thrown in the trunk may have produced chloroform (via chlorine?)
respectfully snipped.

Another poster on a different thread said that the Anthonys stated they did not use chlorine in their pool. They used another, not chlorine-based, pool cleaner.

Yes but Casey and Caylee went swimming lots of places. Two I know of were Chris's moms and toni apartment.

Baez was just pointing out in the only way he can that Chloroform is alot more common then people think . In cleaning product ,swimming pools ,drinking water..

 

[Never4GetCaylee]

Has anyone been watching Dr. Drew since he started covering the trial? I'm sort of using him as a jury meter. It didn't seem like he knew much at all about the case before HLN told him to start covering it. After JB's OS he made me kinda mad because he seemed to immediately buy into the sexual abuse. As the days have gone on though, the more he finds out the more shocked he is and the more he goes against ICA. It kind of reminds me of me when everything was coming out in the beginning and how shocked I was by her. It's interesting to watch and I think somewhat similiar to how the jury might be reacting.

 

[Peachy Keen]

Has anyone been watching Dr. Drew since he started covering the trial? I'm sort of using him as a jury meter. It didn't seem like he knew much at all about the case before HLN told him to start covering it. After JB's OS he made me kinda mad because he seemed to immediately buy into the sexual abuse. As the days have gone on though, the more he finds out the more shocked he is and the more he goes against ICA. It kind of reminds me of me when everything was coming out in the beginning and how shocked I was by her. It's interesting to watch and I think somewhat similiar to how the jury might be reacting.

I noticed this too. He was really buying Jose's OS at first, and now that he has seen more evidence presented, he seems to see her for the sociopath she is.

MOO

 

[BlOnDe_GuRrL]

pardon my o/t post.. but...

does anyone have links to where the trial is streaming live?
it appears some people in canada can't watch without having to pay???


where do the canadian peeps watch online?

 

[cluciano63]

(I'm one who knows only bare bones, never saw any interviews, videos, or documents prior to trial.)

So far, I am seeing that Casey is selfish woman who likes to appear as a devoted mom to a cute toddler, but also that she probably never cared for Caylee as a person, especially someone with needs and wants that might not match her own.

I am seeing the possible use of chloroform as a way for Casey to have a built-in "babysitter" when she needed one. I don't think she intended it as a murder weapon, but I think she is reckless about anything to do with Caylee.

I don't yet have an opinion on the alleged abuse of Casey; not completely ruling it out, as something is clearly very wrong with Casey and has been for a long time. Her lies and inventions started even before Caylee was born and seem pathological.

I can totally see Casey finding she had killed Caylee and then doing whatever she could think of it to make it appear she had been kidnapped, including the use of the duct tape. It seems clear to me, anyway, that she had no plan at all what to do with Caylee's body.

So far, I just can't quite (yet) get to a premeditated plan, although I could see an act of abuse/violence causng Caylee's death. Not believing the drowning story at all.

I found it suspicious that Casey's father to seem to be telling Casey to be careful what she says, on the jail tapes. I don't understand why any conversation at this point needs to be restrained, if everyone is innocent and everyone wants Caylee found and nothing more. Even knowing they are on tape should not be an issue. And they know by now she lied about everything to the police, so the gentle handling by her father bothers me. She is behind bars now, it is the time to speak your piece to her, even if you've spent your life deferring to her. Even her telling GA he is the best father, etc...does not totally remove possibility of sexual abuse for me, as it is known that some victims and abusers have very tangled relationships.

So far, I see Casey killing Caylee in some undetermined manner and doing her staging with the tape, etc. but making a complete hash of figuring out what to do with the body. So she pretends Caylee is not in her trunk for as long as she can and continues on with the life she really wants. I would for sure be convicting her of something, but unsure as to what right now.

Edited after court day ended: The 84 times accessing the chloroform site is startling and certainly weird, but to me, it does not really change things. I already think she used it on Caylee. I can't imagine why she needed to keep reading the site, but she is no Einstein. Maybe it was not putting Caylee to sleep the way she expected. As far as the other searches, I do not know what to make of them as I had a hard time knowing which were actual searches and which were auto-suggestions or other things like that.

 

[MissJames]

I noticed this too. He was really buying Jose's OS at first, and now that he has seen more evidence presented, he seems to see her for the sociopath she is.

MOO

I don't think he's watching the entire,trial,though,and some of guests have given wrong info.
I will never be able to trust a reporter or news show,again. JMO

 

[cluciano63]

pardon my o/t post.. but...

does anyone have links to where the trial is streaming live?
it appears some people in canada can't watch without having to pay???


where do the canadian peeps watch online?

Which links won't let you watch?

There is cnn.com/live
wesh.com
wftv.com
orlandosentinel.com

 

[BlOnDe_GuRrL]

i can watch.. but someone in canada can't watch.. she says the servers are trying to charge her to watch??

 

[songline]

I hope this is posted on the right thread.


Juror charged with contempt of court and fined
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/videobeta/?watchId=b6824f3e-7d3b-4df0-a268-ca8c4325eca3

Fined $400.00 and discharged.

 

[Leah0107]

I'm new to this site and I am another one of the few who knew very little about the case prior to the trial. Didn't see any interviews, videos, read any evidence, etc. Seems like I'd be a perfect candidate for jury selection except that during jury selection I said 'there's no way I could sit on this jury because I already judge her guilty." Why? I just have never been able to get over the fact that she hid that her child was missing for a month and went about her business as usual without so much as a blink of an eye. For me, there is not one reason that can be presented that will enable me to get past this. Abuse is no excuse, accident is no excuse, fear of mom, dad, whatever - NO EXCUSE.

I committed to be open minded during the trial and listen to all the evidence I could to be fair. To date, I am more convinced than ever of her guilt. The question is whether or not the state can prove it with the evidence they present.

JB doesn't come of like an attorney trying to rigorously defend his client, he comes of like a jerk. His job is to raise doubt and poke holes in the state's theory and evidence. I can see that he's trying to do this, but he's doing it so badly. He's made a couple of good points, but they are so few I can't remember what they are. I am sure that the jury has to be seeing this too. Does he think they are stupid? IMO it's one thing to seem like a jerk and make a good point, but without the point you are just a jerk. I have to say with a client like ICA how much do you really have to work with?

Side note: I have never been able to figure out his fixation with these gas cans. Does anyone know what the point is of all of that?

What solidifies my belief even further is that we not only know of her behavior during those 30 days we know and she knew that she was dead, yet she continued to lie and obstruct justice while the whole world practically (not to mention her family) was watching, wondering, waiting, and agonizing over this 'missing' little girl and she lied more, maintained her position and NEVER said one thing about this sweet child being dead. And now we are suppose to believe it was an accident and you were too afraid to tell or whatever the ludicrous reason. In my eyes, it's not going to take much evidence (circumstantial or not) to tie the cement block around her leg. One hair is one hair to many. The term "consistent with' doesn't sway me whatsoever. Chloroform shouldn't be found in the air at any level neither should any 'residue' be present. In light of the computer searches about chloroform being found on the computer, what reasonable explanation can be given for this. I have heard nothing so far to answer that for me.
Perhaps, if her behavior wasn't so 'wrong,' I may be able to question the evidence more. Behavior speaks loudly. And her behavior is consistent with guilt and it has been duplicated in other real world situations.

 

[katydid23]

Yes but Casey and Caylee went swimming lots of places. Two I know of were Chris's moms and toni apartment.

Baez was just pointing out in the only way he can that Chloroform is alot more common then people think . In cleaning product ,swimming pools ,drinking water..

Was there ever any testimony about any wet or even dry swimsuits or towels left in the trunk?

My DD was on the swim team and we had wet suits/towels in our trunk on a daily basis. I highly doubt there was a huge peak of chloroform in our car. imoo

And WHY was the car trunk cleaned out by Cindy with those cleaning products?

Oh yes, the STINK ....that she and George both said smelled like decomp.

I do not believe an old pizza box would create that same intense putrid smell.

 

[Soulmagent]

Was there ever any testimony about any wet or even dry swimsuits or towels left in the trunk?

My DD was on the swim team and we had wet suits/towels in our trunk on a daily basis. I highly doubt there was a huge peak of chloroform in our car. imoo

And WHY was the car trunk cleaned out by Cindy with those cleaning products?

Oh yes, the STINK ....that she and George both said smelled like decomp.

I do not believe an old pizza box would create that same intense putrid smell.

Objection ,
Beyond the scope! HAHA

Some one was mentioning it the anthony used something else in the pool I was just pointing out there are more pools.

 

[Donjeta]

I'm starting to think that the defendant is not quite right in the head. Apparently she told her brother that the nanny and her sister and their children wrestled her down in a park and told her that they were going to take Caylee because she was not a good mom and she was to prove her motherly capacities by living it up in bars and stealing money according to the nanny's instructions on Myspace. :waitasec:

It is quite beyond me how she came up with a bizarre story like that, and even more bizarre if she honestly expected her brother or anybody else to believe that (and if said brother did believe her). She can't think much of their intelligence to try and offer them such drivel. I think she's lying and does not really believe in any of this but nevertheless this has a distinct resemblance to the narratives of a few paranoid persons I have had the honor to meet.

 

[kpalma715]

I have a question, cause I always knew the duct tape was placed before death but what backs up the theory that duct tape was placed on the Caylee's face before death? What evidence supports that? I honestly cant remember.