Through a Juror's Eyes/What do those who haven't followed the case believe? (Merged)

[Donjeta]

Maybe it's just that the skull wasn't hygienically placed on a shelf before rolling out of the bag, there was animal damage and the skull and the bag were both embedded in debris. If you have things lying in dirt and foliage and accidentally kick them they will continue to be lying in dirt and foliage even if their respective positions have been displaced somewhat.

 

[tamild]

Hello! I'm new to the forum and new to this case as well. I have a friend who has been loosely following the case and she suggested that I watch the trial. I admit that I missed most of the State's opening statement, but I've watched pretty much everything since. If anyone is interested, here are some of my observations:
I really like the attorneys for the state and really, REALLY dislike the defense team.
I don't believe George Anthony molested his daughter, and I really fail to see how taking gas cans to pick up a towed car is nefarious.
I don't feel that Casey's friends really have the life experience to define what makes a "good mom."
Casey sure had a good time for 31 days, didn't she?
My heart was breaking for Cindy Anthony, but there is something off there...not sure what.
Casey lies about everything, and I do mean EVERYTHING. I don't think there is a thing this girl could say that I'd believe now. Oh, and she's not as great an actress in the courtroom as she thinks she is.
All of the jail recordings were about "me, me, me" and I'm not liking it one bit.
I really liked Yuri Melich and found him to be extremely competent and all attempts by the defense to tear him down really ticked me off.
Same goes for Gerardo Bloise. He was so darned NICE! No way could you convince me that he sabotaged anything.
In fact, the way the defense is ripping into EVERYONE is ticking me off and it's certainly winning no points with me.
I believe the root banding was present.
I completely 100% WITHOUT A DOUBT believe the car smelled like death and that there was a body in there.
The internet searches really don't carry much weight with me. I'd hate to have to explain my own surfing because I've looked up some pretty odd things just out of curiosity, hearing things mentioned on TV, etc.
I believe there was chloroform in the trunk. I understood all of the testimony i.e. air levels vs carpet sample...I'm just not sure what it means yet. I get the inference, though.
I'm not sure why it would be an issue to dry wet trash. How else could you preserve it?
There is nothing accidental about duct tape, no matter how you try to explain it away.

Thanks for letting me put in my two cents!

 

[Velouria]

:seeya:Welcome to WS, tamild and Hali!
:welcome2: Good to see all the new faces!

 

[LEFT-COASTER]

Hello! I'm new to the forum and new to this case as well. I have a friend who has been loosely following the case and she suggested that I watch the trial. I admit that I missed most of the State's opening statement, but I've watched pretty much everything since. If anyone is interested, here are some of my observations:
I really like the attorneys for the state and really, REALLY dislike the defense team.
I don't believe George Anthony molested his daughter, and I really fail to see how taking gas cans to pick up a towed car is nefarious.
I don't feel that Casey's friends really have the life experience to define what makes a "good mom."
Casey sure had a good time for 31 days, didn't she?
My heart was breaking for Cindy Anthony, but there is something off there...not sure what.
Casey lies about everything, and I do mean EVERYTHING. I don't think there is a thing this girl could say that I'd believe now. Oh, and she's not as great an actress in the courtroom as she thinks she is.
All of the jail recordings were about "me, me, me" and I'm not liking it one bit.
I really liked Yuri Melich and found him to be extremely competent and all attempts by the defense to tear him down really ticked me off.
Same goes for Gerardo Bloise. He was so darned NICE! No way could you convince me that he sabotaged anything.
In fact, the way the defense is ripping into EVERYONE is ticking me off and it's certainly winning no points with me.
I believe the root banding was present.
I completely 100% WITHOUT A DOUBT believe the car smelled like death and that there was a body in there.
The internet searches really don't carry much weight with me. I'd hate to have to explain my own surfing because I've looked up some pretty odd things just out of curiosity, hearing things mentioned on TV, etc.
I believe there was chloroform in the trunk. I understood all of the testimony i.e. air levels vs carpet sample...I'm just not sure what it means yet. I get the inference, though.
I'm not sure why it would be an issue to dry wet trash. How else could you preserve it?
There is nothing accidental about duct tape, no matter how you try to explain it away.

Thanks for letting me put in my two cents!

welcome to ws.. your post was great.. thanks

 

[katydid23]

Hello! I'm new to the forum and new to this case as well. I have a friend who has been loosely following the case and she suggested that I watch the trial. I admit that I missed most of the State's opening statement, but I've watched pretty much everything since. If anyone is interested, here are some of my observations:
I really like the attorneys for the state and really, REALLY dislike the defense team.
I don't believe George Anthony molested his daughter, and I really fail to see how taking gas cans to pick up a towed car is nefarious.
I don't feel that Casey's friends really have the life experience to define what makes a "good mom."
Casey sure had a good time for 31 days, didn't she?
My heart was breaking for Cindy Anthony, but there is something off there...not sure what.
Casey lies about everything, and I do mean EVERYTHING. I don't think there is a thing this girl could say that I'd believe now. Oh, and she's not as great an actress in the courtroom as she thinks she is.
All of the jail recordings were about "me, me, me" and I'm not liking it one bit.
I really liked Yuri Melich and found him to be extremely competent and all attempts by the defense to tear him down really ticked me off.
Same goes for Gerardo Bloise. He was so darned NICE! No way could you convince me that he sabotaged anything.
In fact, the way the defense is ripping into EVERYONE is ticking me off and it's certainly winning no points with me.
I believe the root banding was present.
I completely 100% WITHOUT A DOUBT believe the car smelled like death and that there was a body in there.
The internet searches really don't carry much weight with me. I'd hate to have to explain my own surfing because I've looked up some pretty odd things just out of curiosity, hearing things mentioned on TV, etc.
I believe there was chloroform in the trunk. I understood all of the testimony i.e. air levels vs carpet sample...I'm just not sure what it means yet. I get the inference, though.
I'm not sure why it would be an issue to dry wet trash. How else could you preserve it?
There is nothing accidental about duct tape, no matter how you try to explain it away.

Thanks for letting me put in my two cents!

:welcome:

Nice first post. You made some good points. Please stick around and share with us how you see things unfold.

 

[Curious Me]

:welcome2:

I'm finding it very interesting to read the posts from people new to this case. Thank You.

 

[Nikki 01]

My dad is somewhat new to this case. He was aware of it, but he never actively followed it and never expressed an opinion either way.

Now that he is retired he has been able to follow the trial. When the defense made their opening statement he expressed that he believed it was an accident. I rolled my eyes because he also thought Scott Peterson was innocent so I figured he is one of those people. Hah.


However, during the course of the state's case he has changed his mind to thinking that Casey murdered her. I think the decomp evidence was really strong for him and the duct tape is as well. He kept saying today that you wouldn't use duct tape if it was just an accident. Also he thinks they should have forced her to stay in court yesterday because he thinks she would have cracked and confessed.

 

[2goldfish]

My dad is somewhat new to this case. He was aware of it, but he never actively followed it and never expressed an opinion either way.

Now that he is retired he has been able to follow the trial. When the defense made their opening statement he expressed that he believed it was an accident. I rolled my eyes because he also thought Scott Peterson was innocent so I figured he is one of those people. Hah.


However, during the course of the state's case he has changed his mind to thinking that Casey murdered her. I think the decomp evidence was really strong for him and the duct tape is as well. He kept saying today that you wouldn't use duct tape if it was just an accident. Also he thinks they should have forced her to stay in court yesterday because he thinks she would have cracked and confessed.

out of curiosity, as peterson & anthony are frequently compared, does your dad to this day think peterson is innocent? if so that's pretty amazing for the state's case that he has changed his mind on ICA's guilt. :great:

(I personally think peterson is as guilty as ICA)

 

[annmarie62]

Has anyone been watching Dr. Drew since he started covering the trial? I'm sort of using him as a jury meter. It didn't seem like he knew much at all about the case before HLN told him to start covering it. After JB's OS he made me kinda mad because he seemed to immediately buy into the sexual abuse. As the days have gone on though, the more he finds out the more shocked he is and the more he goes against ICA. It kind of reminds me of me when everything was coming out in the beginning and how shocked I was by her. It's interesting to watch and I think somewhat similiar to how the jury might be reacting.

I agree- Dr. Drew knows exactly what he is doing when dealing with celebrity
druggies- and he seems like a genuinely kind and competent person- but he is so so out of his element in his coverage of this trial! Especially after watching comments from IS, JVM, NG and the like, where everyone is so... bombastic... But I do think he is learning something from being forced to cover this (and you just know he was!), so maybe his perspective, however shaky at first, is a good thing, and I agree that he is a great indicator of what some jurors may be thinking. I say "some" because I cannot give up hope that there are at least 3-4 jurors who saw thru the BS quickly and decided on her guilt days ago! One thing that really struck me about Dr. Drew: when the skull pics came up, whenever 'graphic' testimony is discussed, he gets visibly shaken and upset and stops the conversation, saying that he is about to get sick. WOW. So interesting to see a talking head show such raw and honest emotion, and really, that is how one SHOULD react to this case. I love that he has a heart and that he is not jaded about a child's murder; what a concept.

 

[Peachy Keen]

My husband knew of this case because my daughter and I followed it since the beginning. He only knew the basics--the 31 days, Zanny the nanny, partying, abandoned car, etc. He has been watching quite a bit of the trial and is now totally convinced she is guilty of murder and should get the DP.

He said, "How could she not want that little girl? I would have taken her and raised her and loved her." It made me cry.

 

[cluciano63]

I've been learning along with the jurors and while I personally have no doubt that Casey killed Caylee, I can see how someone might be led to believe that George had access to all of the items found with Caylee in the woods too.

George's behavior on the jail tapes bothers me too; he acts deferential to Casey even then. That could be seen by some as his fear of making her angry and possibly "blowing their cover" i.e. if they had conspired to hide Caylee's remains. He tiptoes around, won't ask her direct questions, and seems to only plead with Casey to tell the truth for her "mother's sake." This makes me still unsure as to what knowledge he had by that point-I believe he had far more than Cindy had.

But I don't see Casey allowing herself to be vilified by public and media as a "baby killer" if this had in fact been any sort of accident, without insisting on telling the "truth" all over again, and trying to confess to an accidental drowning. She hated being in jail, that much was clear and would not have allowed her parents to let her remain there if George had info that could get her out.

The pool accident is not at all believable. The abuse is not believable to me, but something is very much wrong with Casey and it could be attributed to some sort of trauma at home, we will probably never know for sure. As far as intentionally killing Caylee, while I think she did, I also think that if there is one sicko out there who might try duct tape afterward to build her kidnapping scenario, if could be Casey. Still, from the standpoint of "reasonable doubt" , there really isn't any for me.

 

[tamild]

Thank you all so much for the warm welcome

I thought I'd throw out my observations for the day:

Dr. Haskell reinforced my belief that little Caylee was in the trunk. It was good to get a time frame of how long she could have been in there. However, I didn't much care for his demeanor.
20 ft. sounds about the distance that a tiny person like Casey could, or would want to carry a corpse.
I think I get where the defense is going with the gas cans and duct tape, but following it is leading me nowhere. Frankly, I don't care where the tape was/is after the fact. The only thing I need to know is that it was in the home on or about June16, and that Casey had access to it.

 

[citigirl]

This is my take at this point, as someone who has not followed the case until the trial began:

I am not liking Casey very much, but I do not like George much, either, so the defense's opening statement seems plausible to me.

I am little wary of the expert testimony. The can of air guy seems to be introducing a type of technology that hasn't been proven in many cases...and I am not excited about Dr. G's testimony. She seemed nervous to me and her reasons for declaring Caylee's death a homicide do not take into account the family dynamics mentioned in the defense's opening statement. ( I have never seen her show, so my only exposure to her is at this trial)

I am wondering why the prosecution did not ask Lee if he had molested his sister, the way they asked George. I am wondering if it means that Lee has confessed to this.

I am definitely picking up that Casey does not have such a great team of lawyers...I am going to give her extra points to make up for his deficits.

I have only heard that she was a good mother, so I am believing the death was an accident. But I am mystified about all the lying, and believe there is something terribly wrong with her, and that I want to hear more about her parenting.

-----------------------------------------------------

However, as a member of Websleuths I have read a lot more than the jurors know, and I believe she did kill her daughter deliberately. Time will tell if the prosecution is going to share the information I know now with the jury.

Anybody who thinks this is a slam-dunk for the prosecution does not remember the OJ trial. At the end of the prosecution's presentation, it seemed impossible that OJ would not get the death penalty. As the defense presented its case, things began to look a little different. By the time the jury went to deliberate it felt like about a 75/25 chance he would be found guilty, although most of us felt he WAS guilty. When the jury came back with the verdict, we were shocked.

 

[donnam]

This is my take at this point, as someone who has not followed the case until the trial began:

I am not liking Casey very much, but I do not like George much, either, so the defense's opening statement seems plausible to me.

I am little wary of the expert testimony. The can of air guy seems to be introducing a type of technology that hasn't been proven in many cases...and I am not excited about Dr. G's testimony. She seemed nervous to me and her reasons for declaring Caylee's death a homicide do not take into account the family dynamics mentioned in the defense's opening statement. ( I have never seen her show, so my only exposure to her is at this trial)

I am wondering why the prosecution did not ask Lee if he had molested his sister, the way they asked George. I am wondering if it means that Lee has confessed to this.

I am definitely picking up that Casey does not have such a great team of lawyers...I am going to give her extra points to make up for his deficits.

I have only heard that she was a good mother, so I am believing the death was an accident. But I am mystified about all the lying, and believe there is something terribly wrong with her, and that I want to hear more about her parenting.



-----------------------------------------------------

However, as a member of Websleuths I have read a lot more than the jurors know, and I believe she did kill her daughter deliberately. Time will tell if the prosecution is going to share the information I know now with the jury.

Anybody who thinks this is a slam-dunk for the prosecution does not remember the OJ trial. At the end of the prosecution's presentation, it seemed impossible that OJ would not get the death penalty. As the defense presented its case, things began to look a little different. By the time the jury went to deliberate it felt like about a 75/25 chance he would be found guilty, although most of us felt he WAS guilty. When the jury came back with the verdict, we were shocked.

BBM

I believe some people are just born evil and KC is one of them.

 

[katydid23]

This is my take at this point, as someone who has not followed the case until the trial began:

snipped for space;

-----------------------------------------------------

However, as a member of Websleuths I have read a lot more than the jurors know, and I believe she did kill her daughter deliberately. Time will tell if the prosecution is going to share the information I know now with the jury.

Anybody who thinks this is a slam-dunk for the prosecution does not remember the OJ trial. At the end of the prosecution's presentation, it seemed impossible that OJ would not get the death penalty. As the defense presented its case, things began to look a little different. By the time the jury went to deliberate it felt like about a 75/25 chance he would be found guilty, although most of us felt he WAS guilty. When the jury came back with the verdict, we were shocked.

I think the difference between Oj and Casey is major. Oj was a very talented, highly respected, popular, celebrity, athlete. He was world famous and well loved. Up until the murder of his ex wife, he had been a successful, happy,wealthy,family man. The jury was looking for a way to prove his innocence, imo.

Casey may be the most hated young woman in America right now. She seems to have few redeeming qualities. She has zero accomplishments, lives a totally selfish life based upon lies and betrayal. The best anyone could say was " She was a good mom." Which is ironic since she really did very little for that child, as it was her parents who fed and clothed her. She just kind of babysat while waiting for her folks to come home and make dinner. So imo, the jury will be looking for a way to find her guilty.

 

[citigirl]

I think the difference between Oj and Casey is major. Oj was a very talented, highly respected, popular, celebrity, athlete. He was world famous and well loved. Up until the murder of his ex wife, he had been a successful, happy,wealthy,family man. The jury was looking for a way to prove his innocence, imo.

Casey may be the most hated young woman in America right now. She seems to have few redeeming qualities. She has zero accomplishments, lives a totally selfish life based upon lies and betrayal. The best anyone could say was " She was a good mom." Which is ironic since she really did very little for that child, as it was her parents who fed and clothed her. She just kind of babysat while waiting for her folks to come home and make dinner. So imo, the jury will be looking for a way to find her guilty.

I hope you are right. OJ was looking awful to those of us who followed the trial. I still can't believe he wasn't found guilty. The way he pretended to struggle with that glove was so obvious.

I just think we have to remember that the defense has not even begun to argue their case, and the prosecution's case is circumstantial and leaves a lot of wiggle room.

 

[katydid23]

I hope you are right. OJ was looking awful to those of us who followed the trial. I still can't believe he wasn't found guilty. The way he pretended to struggle with that glove was so obvious.

I just think we have to remember that the defense has not even begun to argue their case, and the prosecution's case is circumstantial and leaves a lot of wiggle room.

I know he looked awful during that trial. I lived in Santa Monica at the time and followed it closely. But he had a level of respect and goodwill that made people WANT to give him the benefit if the doubt, imo. That glove was just what the sympathetic jury needed to give them a way out.

I think this jury is looking for a way to find her guilty. And it is true, there is wriggle room. And if at the end of the defense case they decide there is enough reasonable doubt, and they believe George tried to frame her after the accidental drowning, then she may walk. But I do not think that will happen. I think they will go with aggravated child abuse ending in death, which gives her LWOP.

 

[kathyn2]

Just so you know, I have heard several lawyers discussing this case that have stated that aggravated child abuse resulting in death can result in the death penalty. It does carry the death penalty so even tho they vote that way she could still get the DP if either they vote for it or the judge decides she deserves it. Not saying she will get it but it is possible.

I think this jury is looking for a way to find her guilty. And it is true, there is wriggle room. And if at the end of the defense case they decide there is enough reasonable doubt, and they believe George tried to frame her after the accidental drowning, then she may walk. But I do not think that will happen. I think they will go with aggravated child abuse ending in death, which gives her LWOP.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I believe I need to hire someone to clean my house while I watch this trial.

 

[PaulaF513]

Welcome to WS, Linda505!

:welcome::welcome::welcome:

About the skull, I thought he nudged the garbage bag with his foot when he was going pee, then he saw the skull.

I'm sure someone will correct me if my memory is wrong but.....I seem to remember Kronk saying something like he nudged or kicked the bag and the skull rolled out. However, I think that couldn't have happened because we now know that the skull was partially embedded in the soil. The only explanation I can think of for the skull to have rolled out of the bag is that it happened a lot earlier and the bag was moved. This worries me because I think this is where the defense is going.

I'm not a newbie to all this and I admit to feeling that something is not quite as it was presented with Mr. Kronk. Hope I'm wrong.