TH's emails shed light on Horman split

[GrainneDhu]

You miss my point. I'm certain LE could easily identify what computer the emails came from - so surely they came from Terri's computer. However, that does not positively indicate that they were typed by TH herself. Given that there would have been very few people with access to that computer, Desiree might be the perfect judge of whether the emails actually "sounded" like her.

I am not a lawyer but I would think that LE would go for an opinion on authorship to a forensic linguist who would have academic credentials and relevant experience that would stand up in court versus a grieving mother whose testimony would not be easy to defend in court.

The FBI has been involved in Kyron's disappearance since nearly the very beginning and the FBI has quite a few forensic linguists. It would make much more sense for LE to send any texts in question to the FBI for identification.

A forensic linguist could not only give an opinion but could demonstrate the scientific underpinnings for that opinion (including word frequencies, etc) rather than just being able to say "well, these read like other emails I got from TMH."

Remember the book Primary Colors? It was published under a pseudonym and generated a lot of buzz because it was obviously written by an insider to the 1992 Clinton campaign. A couple different literary analysts (a closely related field to forensic analysis) accurately pinned the authorship on Joe Klein.

Klein had actually attempted to disguise (somewhat) his usual writing style in order to maintain anonymity but linguistic analysis was not impaired by such a ploy.

 

[txsvicki]

How can a 7 month pregnant woman compete with that/?

Since it has been brought up, and since a question has been framed in terms of "How can a 7 month pregnant woman compete with that?"

My opinion is: I suppose if a husband of a pregnant wife is more interested in sex with another woman who claims special talents regarding golf balls & garden hoses, than in honoring his vows to his wife who is pregnant with his unborn child and figuring out a way to keep his family intact, then, yes, I agree, how can an 7 month pregnant woman compete with that.
Answer: she can't, nor should she feel she has to.

ETA: KH was equally responsible for his choices, just as TH was responsible for hers (regarding the affair).

I absolutely agree with that that answer !!!!!!![/QUOTE]


There may not have been any competition since he told that the marriage over anyway, but of course Desiree didn't agree with said and said she was devastated. Kaine must not have been in love and fell in love with Terri. He was single, had a baby only part of the time, and could have been dating and doing as he pleased yet he turned right around from a marriage and moved in with Terri. Men who don't feel or think they're in love wouldn't do that just for sex. Especially a new woman with a kid of her own.

 

[Littleone48]

Maybe this has been asked and answered but I couldn't find it.

Who did Terri send these e-mails to and why didn't the person contact someone? Just seems odd to me that if these e-mails are as bad as K&D say they are the person who received them didn't try to get Terri help or report them. My God she was talking about hurting a little boy...

 

[tlcya]

Why would LE show emails to Desiree and Kaine?

Answer: LE has not got a solid case. They have belief and intuition and experience and every other darn thini. But they have not got enough substantive evidence for the DA to be sure or even kinda think, he might get a conviction. They only get one bite at that apple.

IMO Le needs to bring the parents into the fold a bit as far as evidence as long as they agree not to discuss specifics with anyone. It is a means of attempting to apply even more pressure to Terri. LE need Kaine and Desiree's participation in this application. So that it is coming at Terri from all sides and MSM is all interested again because the parents are doing media once more.

I am not saying that in any sort of derogatory way, I just think that was the thought process behind LE telling them.

Pressure, ever increasing pressure.

 

[kimmera]

I am not a lawyer but I would think that LE would go for an opinion on authorship to a forensic linguist who would have academic credentials and relevant experience that would stand up in court versus a grieving mother whose testimony would not be easy to defend in court.

The FBI has been involved in Kyron's disappearance since nearly the very beginning and the FBI has quite a few forensic linguists. It would make much more sense for LE to send any texts in question to the FBI for identification.

A forensic linguist could not only give an opinion but could demonstrate the scientific underpinnings for that opinion (including word frequencies, etc) rather than just being able to say "well, these read like other emails I got from TMH."

Remember the book Primary Colors? It was published under a pseudonym and generated a lot of buzz because it was obviously written by an insider to the 1992 Clinton campaign. A couple different literary analysts (a closely related field to forensic analysis) accurately pinned the authorship on Joe Klein.

Klein had actually attempted to disguise (somewhat) his usual writing style in order to maintain anonymity but linguistic analysis was not impaired by such a ploy.

This is an awesome post on many levels, IMO!

First, I know that the FBI was involved very early on in this case. I tend to think that they zeroed in on TH very quickly partly due to her online activities.

I have also felt that despite protests to the opposite, LE has more or less guided the press dealings of KH and DY...I have felt for a very long time that almost all of the press of KH and DY has been to 'draw TH out'. I have come to believe that they were not necessarily 'drawing her out' to SPEAK, but rather to commemorate something through her computer. Being the narcisissist that she is, TH MUST do something to defend her image!

It is pretty much common knowledge that TH posted on a local news message board soon after Kyron went missing. It was noteworthy, IMO, because it was a MSM source that tracked her IP address and actually outed her! My personal opinion is that TH is STILL posting on the WWW...even against her attorney's advice. I can't help but wonder if LE is LOOKING for postings on different forums that could be traced to her, even now, using the very same techniques pointed out by GrainneDhu? I hope that doesn't sound crazy, but this thought occurred to me today...that the recent news appearances of KH and DY were intended to provoke an ONLINE response somewhere, that may lend further evidence in this case...JMO...:twocents:

 

[germaine]

This is an awesome post on many levels, IMO!

First, I know that the FBI was involved very early on in this case. I tend to think that they zeroed in on TH very quickly partly due to her online activities.

I have also felt that despite protests to the opposite, LE has more or less guided the press dealings of KH and DY...I have felt for a very long time that almost all of the press of KH and DY has been to 'draw TH out'. I have come to believe that they were not necessarily 'drawing her out' to SPEAK, but rather to commemorate something through her computer. Being the narcisissist that she is, TH MUST do something to defend her image!

It is pretty much common knowledge that TH posted on a local news message board soon after Kyron went missing. It was noteworthy, IMO, because it was a MSM source that tracked her IP address and actually outed her! My personal opinion is that TH is STILL posting on the WWW...even against her attorney's advice. I can't help but wonder if LE is LOOKING for postings on different forums that could be traced to her, even now, using the very same techniques pointed out by GrainneDhu? I hope that doesn't sound crazy, but this thought occurred to me today...that the recent news appearances of KH and DY were intended to provoke an ONLINE response somewhere, that may lend further evidence in this case...JMO...:twocents:

absolutely not insane...if she is not venting by some electronic means to someone, anyone, I will be completely astonished. I presume she is drawing her own lethal injection as we speak.

 

[kimmera]

absolutely not insane...if she is not venting by some electronic means to someone, anyone, I will be completely astonished. I presume she is drawing her own lethal injection as we speak.

From your lips to God's ear, my friend...

 

[newone]

I watched Kaine on GMA just now. When asked about the emails , he confirmed Desiree's description and that they concerned hurting Kyron...but he would not say more.

I think we have occasionally learned some things from Desiree , in her torment and frustration, that perhaps were meant to be held back. I do not blame her in any way..I probably could not show 1/10 of the restraint that this Mother has shown. But it's made me curious to look at some of her statements again.

I'm thinking of "Kyron saw it all."

Perhaps these were truly not just random phrases or choices of words but the truest insights we've gotten into the evidence in this case. Just speculation of course.

:twocents: I have wondered about that too -- I am wondering if Kyron stumbled into the room during one of TH's online/webcam shenanigans and TH was outraged

 

[stmarysmead]

I'm also curious about the recipient(s) of these emails. Did Terri have really close friends? Did DeDe say she was Terri's confidant...as in talking every day, confiding their troubles?

I'm thinking of my very close friends...and I'm thinking that I value their opinion of me...so who could I send emails to saying I wanted to hurt a 7 year old?

Was this done in another context other than as a confidence? Was she trying to get another sexting friend to help her hurt Kyron?

I guess we will know in time.

 

[GrainneDhu]

This is an awesome post on many levels, IMO!

First, I know that the FBI was involved very early on in this case. I tend to think that they zeroed in on TH very quickly partly due to her online activities.

I have also felt that despite protests to the opposite, LE has more or less guided the press dealings of KH and DY...I have felt for a very long time that almost all of the press of KH and DY has been to 'draw TH out'. I have come to believe that they were not necessarily 'drawing her out' to SPEAK, but rather to commemorate something through her computer. Being the narcisissist that she is, TH MUST do something to defend her image!

It is pretty much common knowledge that TH posted on a local news message board soon after Kyron went missing. It was noteworthy, IMO, because it was a MSM source that tracked her IP address and actually outed her! My personal opinion is that TH is STILL posting on the WWW...even against her attorney's advice. I can't help but wonder if LE is LOOKING for postings on different forums that could be traced to her, even now, using the very same techniques pointed out by GrainneDhu? I hope that doesn't sound crazy, but this thought occurred to me today...that the recent news appearances of KH and DY were intended to provoke an ONLINE response somewhere, that may lend further evidence in this case...JMO...:twocents:

<blush> Thanks!

I think your theory has some plausibility.

The FBI has NarusInsight (son of Carnivore), which are sophisticated packet sniffers that can automatically filter for various conditions. For instance, if the FBI has a court order that permits them to examine the email sent by a specific person to a specific receiver, these packet sniffers can be set to ignore email sent to other individuals, web surfing, blogging, online shopping and other online activities that are not permitted under the court order.

Linguistic analysis and forensic linguistics have exploded since computers have become so cheap. What once took literally months or years of work with paper and pencil can now be done in a few hours with a scanner and optical print reader to input text, then other programs that can analyse big blocks of text.

What has essentially happened is that text analysis has become a specialised form of database analysis.

Treat the web as the raw database and write the filters correctly and voila! it's amazing what can be found.

No, I don't do this myself, I have a friend who works for a company that writes database tools for the DoD. And is kind enough not to laugh at nearly-computer illiterate me while answering question after question about "is this possible?"

 

[Emma Peel]

I'm also curious about the recipient(s) of these emails. Did Terri have really close friends? Did DeDe say she was Terri's confidant...as in talking every day, confiding their troubles?

I'm thinking of my very close friends...and I'm thinking that I value their opinion of me...so who could I send emails to saying I wanted to hurt a 7 year old?

Was this done in another context other than as a confidence? Was she trying to get another sexting friend to help her hurt Kyron?

I guess we will know in time.

This has been bugging me too. E-mail content. Why show to parents?

Specifically, I don't know if I can believe there is an e-mail that says "I hate Kyron" or "I'm going to kill Kyron" or "I slapped Kyron so hard he'll never forget to pick up his toys again." Who would memorialize or write such an e-mail to anyone - especially if you were all about making yourself "look good".

paraphrasing Desiree regarding the e-mails, without direct quoting her ...

IIRC - Desiree said the e-mails made it clear to her that Terri truly hated Kyron.
-and-
Desiree then said she, after having read the e-mails, could now believe that Terri herself could have severely harmed Kyron.

:waitasec:

Perhaps there was information in the e-mails - written about Kyron - that LE wanted to ground-truth with Kyron's parents. And that's why they showed the e-mails to both parents. Perhaps the e-mails - in telling some parenting story or stories about Kyron - expressed Terri's anger with Kyron and gave the reasons for it?

I'm making up these for example:
....Kyron's XXXXX behavior (fill in the XX with the bad behavior)
....Kyron's jealousy of baby K
....Kyron's jealousy of bigger brother
....Kyron's acting out
....Kyron somehow hurting his baby sister
....Kaine's favoritism of Kyron over baby K


So, upon the subject of Kyron's bad behavior - Terri might feel comfortable writing and venting to someone about that. And it would only be through the other parents' eyes that LE could ground-truth whether the behavior was what Terri claimed, and whether Kyron's other parents were aware of it.

Then if Desiree & Kaine read these descriptions, they might realize they had no idea how strongly Terri felt that Kyron was "bad", and how Terri showed no love or understanding towards Kyron, when they had all the time believed that Terri loved and cared for Kyron. That would be a shocker-ooo. To find out how Terri "really" felt about Kyron via e-mails to others.

Oh well. I'm probably just thinking too hard. I suppose she could have easily been intoxicated a few times and just vented "God I hate that kid ... Kyron is such a thorn in my side...my life would be soooooooooooo much easier without having to drag his spoiled rotten little butt around with me and the baby all the time. But I wish you could see baby K, she's adorable and can do no wrong, what a little love."

And if that's what she typed, hmmmm... well, hopefully it's altogether more than just grumpy grumping... :cow: evidence-wise, I mean.

 

[SurfieTX]

She said a few things about Desiree too which led Desiree to the conclusion that she "took out her dislike of her onto Kyron." (or something like that). It still puzzles me that after 8 years, Terri still harbored so much hate for Desiree. I wonder if it was a recent or ongoing issue?

 

[stmarysmead]

This has been bugging me too. E-mail content. Why show to parents?

Specifically, I don't know if I can believe there is an e-mail that says "I hate Kyron" or "I'm going to kill Kyron" or "I slapped Kyron so hard he'll never forget to pick up his toys again." Who would memorialize or write such an e-mail to anyone - especially if you were all about making yourself "look good".

paraphrasing Desiree regarding the e-mails, without direct quoting her ...

IIRC - Desiree said the e-mails made it clear to her that Terri truly hated Kyron.
-and-
Desiree then said she, after having read the e-mails, could now believe that Terri herself could have severely harmed Kyron.

:waitasec:

Perhaps there was information in the e-mails - written about Kyron - that LE wanted to ground-truth with Kyron's parents. And that's why they showed the e-mails to both parents. Perhaps the e-mails - in telling some parenting story or stories about Kyron - expressed Terri's anger with Kyron and gave the reasons for it?

I'm making up these for example:
....Kyron's XXXXX behavior (fill in the XX with the bad behavior)
....Kyron's jealousy of baby K
....Kyron's jealousy of bigger brother
....Kyron's acting out
....Kyron somehow hurting his baby sister
....Kaine's favoritism of Kyron over baby K


So, upon the subject of Kyron's bad behavior - Terri might feel comfortable writing and venting to someone about that. And it would only be through the other parents' eyes that LE could ground-truth whether the behavior was what Terri claimed, and whether Kyron's other parents were aware of it.

Then if Desiree & Kaine read these descriptions, they might realize they had no idea how strongly Terri felt that Kyron was "bad", and how Terri showed no love or understanding towards Kyron, when they had all the time believed that Terri loved and cared for Kyron. That would be a shocker-ooo. To find out how Terri "really" felt about Kyron via e-mails to others.

Oh well. I'm probably just thinking too hard. I suppose she could have easily been intoxicated a few times and just vented "God I hate that kid ... Kyron is such a thorn in my side...my life would be soooooooooooo much easier without having to drag his spoiled rotten little butt around with me and the baby all the time. But I wish you could see baby K, she's adorable and can do no wrong, what a little love."

And if that's what she typed, hmmmm... well, hopefully it's altogether more than just grumpy grumping... :cow: evidence-wise, I mean.

Good post, Emma...but I can't believe LE would call the parents in to look at garden variety carping emails. This isn't asking your best friends to come early before the party to dish the gossip on some latecomer.

LE thought these emails held some significance. They are not interested in the soap opera dynamics between these people. I think these emails have to be stand-out disturbing. Not worth LE's while otherwise.

And it has been said they were about Terri wanting TO HURT Kyron. Again, that is huge. But, not the thing most of us...especially anyone wanting to look like the perfect Mom send out to casual friends.

But Terri was brash in her sexting. She wasn't much caring about her perfect image in those exchanges.

I wonder if these emails went to a man...someone with whom she had a different kind of "image" I'm thinking of her bragging about her strength..being able to take down a man...her "golf ball" talk. I can see talk of gratuitous violence in this context more easily. Sort of linked in with her idea of sexual "attributes"...power and violence as a turn on.

I wonder how she and the Landscaper had similar conversations to the sexting that somehow led to talk of killing Kaine? Sex and violence again? Only, in these emails, it was Kyron.

Is this what is as Desiree says..."sickening?"

 

[citigirl]

I think these emails had to have been sent to someone who didn't like kids. One of her single friends

 

[SurfieTX]

Good post, Emma...but I can't believe LE would call the parents in to look at garden variety carping emails. This isn't asking your best friends to come early before the party to dish the gossip on some latecomer.

LE thought these emails held some significance. They are not interested in the soap opera dynamics between these people. I think these emails have to be stand-out disturbing. Not worth LE's while otherwise.

And it has been said they were about Terri wanting TO HURT Kyron. Again, that is huge. But, not the thing most of us...especially anyone wanting to look like the perfect Mom send out to casual friends.

But Terri was brash in her sexting. She wasn't much caring about her perfect image in those exchanges.

I wonder if these emails went to a man...someone with whom she had a different kind of "image" I'm thinking of her bragging about her strength..being able to take down a man...her "golf ball" talk. I can see talk of gratuitous violence in this context more easily. Sort of linked in with her idea of sexual "attributes"...power and violence as a turn on.

I wonder how she and the Landscaper had similar conversations to the sexting that somehow led to talk of killing Kaine? Sex and violence again? Only, in these emails, it was Kyron.

Is this what is as Desiree says..."sickening?"

I think you are on to something here. After looking over the SP/TH thread, I'm beginning to wonder if Terri was going through some sort of a "midlife crisis." She used to be really busy, but then ended up at home with 3 kids and a lot of time on her hands - idle hands/devil's workshop type of thing.

It would not surprise me one bit if she went to a few message boards, chat sites, or even dating sites to "play" around on. And perhaps some of that behavior led to emailing/texting/instant messaging some unsavory type of men where she could act on her fantasy of power and control intermingled with sex. Whew...that just makes me shiver to think about what was in these emails and who the recipients were...

 

[stmarysmead]

I think you are on to something here. After looking over the SP/TH thread, I'm beginning to wonder if Terri was going through some sort of a "midlife crisis." She used to be really busy, but then ended up at home with 3 kids and a lot of time on her hands - idle hands/devil's workshop type of thing.

It would not surprise me one bit if she went to a few message boards, chat sites, or even dating sites to "play" around on. And perhaps some of that behavior led to emailing/texting/instant messaging some unsavory type of men where she could act on her fantasy of power and control intermingled with sex. Whew...that just makes me shiver to think about what was in these emails and who the recipients were...

Yes, this could be it! Something like this... Thanks.

 

[pufnstuf]

She said a few things about Desiree too which led Desiree to the conclusion that she "took out her dislike of her onto Kyron." (or something like that). It still puzzles me that after 8 years, Terri still harbored so much hate for Desiree. I wonder if it was a recent or ongoing issue?

Knowing this, it would be interesting to go back to the video of the first presser with the family, where Terri hugged Desiree, and Desiree pulled away from her. And Terri did the little fist pump thing. WTF?

This woman is seriously warped. Seriously.

 

[AlexisFresca]

Knowing this, it would be interesting to go back to the video of the first presser with the family, where Terri hugged Desiree, and Desiree pulled away from her. And Terri did the little fist pump thing. WTF?

This woman is seriously warped. Seriously.

I never noticed that! If anyone finds that link, I will have to look at it.

 

[Jo in Calif]

I never noticed that! If anyone finds that link, I will have to look at it.

June 11 - Family appears, statements read - LINK
I believe this might be the link, don't know if it will work.

Don't think it will, but you can go back to that date and find it.

 

[cluciano63]

I think these emails had to have been sent to someone who didn't like kids. One of her single friends

But I believe it has been stated that the e-mail Desiree saw was sent to an extended family member. So not a friend.