Tiger kills man at San Francisco Zoo (Part 3)

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kgeaux said:
If that tiger could jump out of that moat and tear up an "a-hole" as you call them, then she could have jumped out and torn up a five year old who was screaming or roaring at her.

The evidence at this time seems to be contained to a single footprint of Paul's( no evidence that Carlos or the other brother ever stood on the railing.) on the railing.....one pinecone......one small branch.....two small smooth stones which were unobserved by the police but reported by zoo officials the next day.....one steel washer, also unobserved by police, also reported by zoo officials the next day. The evidence does not rise above the level of what any kindergartener might do on any given day.
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Most of your post I agree with. These parts I don't. All of the animal experts have said that it would take far more than a screaming kindergardner to provoke Tatiana to escape. If not, why hadn't she gotten out years ago, since the wall was too short???
We know Paul stood on the wall, that alone was entering the tiger's territory. We know they were drunk and roaring at the lions. These are grown men, not little boys, far more threatening to a tiger. Besides,as has already been stated, the tiger had a full stomach. She wouldn't have just gone after prey for no reason when she had just been fed!
They had to have done far more than they are telling. I can't say whether it was urine, pelting her, or jumping into the enclosure, but I can assure you it was far more than what a kindergardner would do.
 
LinasK said:
Most of your post I agree with. These parts I don't. All of the animal experts have said that it would take far more than a screaming kindergardner to provoke Tatiana to escape. If not, why hadn't she gotten out years ago, since the wall was too short???
We know Paul stood on the wall, that alone was entering the tiger's territory. We know they were drunk and roaring at the lions. These are grown men, not little boys, far more threatening to a tiger. Besides,as has already been stated, the tiger had a full stomach. She wouldn't have just gone after prey for no reason when she had just been fed!
They had to have done far more than they are telling. I can't say whether it was urine, pelting her, or jumping into the enclosure, but I can assure you it was far more than what a kindergardner would do.
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Excellent points!
 
An expert on animals is the one who said that someone urinating could get a tiger angry as a possibility of what could cause such behavior and trying to get out of the enclosure. I'm not sure if he said urinating or meant urinating onto the tiger. No one would knowingly urinate with a tiger close enough to get it on them. I keep thinking about how cats will jump out of hiding at people who are moving around and don't see why it's not possible that Tatiana could have done the same thing. Scaled the wall, sitting and resting in the bushes, and jumped out at the boys who were moving around, possibly standing and sitting on the rail making noise. If a house cat will do that, why wouldn't a tiger if it had figured out how to get up that wall and hide in the bushes.
 
LinasK said:
Most of your post I agree with. These parts I don't. All of the animal experts have said that it would take far more than a screaming kindergardner to provoke Tatiana to escape. If not, why hadn't she gotten out years ago, since the wall was too short???
We know Paul stood on the wall, that alone was entering the tiger's territory. We know they were drunk and roaring at the lions. These are grown men, not little boys, far more threatening to a tiger. Besides,as has already been stated, the tiger had a full stomach. She wouldn't have just gone after prey for no reason when she had just been fed!
They had to have done far more than they are telling. I can't say whether it was urine, pelting her, or jumping into the enclosure, but I can assure you it was far more than what a kindergardner would do.
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Blood was also found in the restricted area beyond the fence. We all know the zoo will have to pay up, but lots of folks are highly suspicious of the "boys". The whole enchilada has a funky flavor.
 
txsvicki said:
...how cats will jump out of hiding at people who are moving around and don't see why it's not possible that Tatiana could have done the same thing. Scaled the wall, sitting and resting in the bushes, and jumped out at the boys who were moving around, possibly standing and sitting on the rail making noise. If a house cat will do that, why wouldn't a tiger if it had figured out how to get up that wall and hide in the bushes.
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And there have been reports of a male and female pair of zoo visitors who were (I believe) throwing rocks at the lions, whose enclosure was next to the tigers'. Tatiana could have been their target, also, and she climbed up and was waiting for the boys.

Regardless of what the boys did or didn't do- the zoo was in default of its responsibilities toward the tigers and the public for many years. That wall was too low before those boys were even born.
 
mister happy said:
Blood was also found in the restricted area beyond the fence. We all know the zoo will have to pay up, but lots of folks are highly suspicious of the "boys". The whole enchilada has a funky flavor.
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A zoo spokesman has said that a sign was removed from the grassy area between the moat and the wall because it had blood smeared on it. However, if you read the police reports and court documents, not one word is said about any bloody sign. The documents DO mention the pinecone, footprint, small stones, etc. But no bloody sign.

THAT is suspicious to me!
 
Rum Tum Tugger said:
FlowerChild & Seeker .. :)

Each of you eloquently stated my thoughts & feelings exactly - so I will not repeat the same sentiments over again. A heartfelt "thank you". :blowkiss:

Excellent posts - and kudos to both of you!

Rum Tum Tugger
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Ditto this post for me also!

:)
 
kgeaux said:
A zoo spokesman has said that a sign was removed from the grassy area between the moat and the wall because it had blood smeared on it. However, if you read the police reports and court documents, not one word is said about any bloody sign. The documents DO mention the pinecone, footprint, small stones, etc. But no bloody sign.

THAT is suspicious to me!
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If you're saying the zoo made this up, I suppose that's possible, but it would be really stupid on their part. I've read that blood was found on the sign and on some of the shrubbery. Of course, any blood would still have to be matched to the guys.
 
deanws said:
http://www.typicallyspanish.com/news/publish/article_14470.shtml

I hope our courts see it the same way and don't reward any compensation to these families either if it is proven without a doubt that they were being cruel to the poor animal.
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It seems people are stupid all over the world. A guy in India was killed by tigers when he stuck his arm inside their cage to take pictures! This happened only a week before the SF Zoo attack.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,317437,00.html


Now the deceased man's family is blaming the zoo.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1080110/jsp/northeast/story_8764524.jsp
 
mister happy said:
It seems people are stupid all over the world. A guy in India was killed by tigers when he stuck his arm inside their cage to take pictures! This happened only a week before the SF Zoo attack.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,317437,00.html


Now the deceased man's family is blaming the zoo.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1080110/jsp/northeast/story_8764524.jsp
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What do you except? The fanily has CArdoza as the lawyer??We have tweddle Dee and tweedele dum for attorneys
 
deanws said:
http://www.typicallyspanish.com/news/publish/article_14470.shtml

I hope our courts see it the same way and don't reward any compensation to these families either if it is proven without a doubt that they were being cruel to the poor animal.
Click to expand...

Sounds like that spanish case was a lot easier for the zoo. I hope they've got more on these guys than what we've been told.
I'm wondering why Geragos or Cardoza haven't filed lawsuits yet. Do you know?
 
Tiger Experts Reviewing SF Zoo Safety

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) ― A team of tiger experts is examining the big cat grotto at the San Francisco Zoo, where a teenager was killed in a Christmas Day attack. Zoo spokeswoman Lora LaMarca said the three-person team sent by the Association of Zoos and Aquariums, which accredits facilities nationwide, arrived Saturday. The review is expected to be wrapped Monday, but the findings would not immediately be released.

At a city committee hearing Monday, officials said grotto renovations, including raising the wall around the tiger exhibit, would be done by early February. The new exhibit is set to include barriers at least 19 feet high--nearly 7 feet higher than the wall at the time of the attack and about 3 feet higher than AZA recommendations. The additions under way include raising the grottos' concrete walls to the recommended height of 16.4 feet, topped by glass screens for public viewing and wire mesh fencing surrounded by foliage, said Yomi Agunbiade, general manager of the San Francisco Recreation and Park Department. Workers also were installing electrified "hot wires" at the top of the walls, Agunbiade said. The project was expected to be finished Feb. 7 at a cost of about $1 million.

The zoo's tigers and lions have remained in their indoor enclosures since the renovations began just after the attacks but would be let back outside as soon as the work was completed, zoo officials said. An escaped 250-pound Siberian tiger killed 17-year-old Carlos Sousa Jr. and wounded brothers Paul Dhaliwal, 19, and Kulbir Dhaliwal, 23, on Dec. 25.

The zoo has no video cameras monitoring the big cat exhibit. Neither investigators nor the brothers have said publicly how they believe the tiger left the enclosure, though the zoo's director has said he believes the animal climbed or leapt out. Many facts about the events on Christmas Day remain unknown," zoo director Manuel Mollinedo said at Monday's hearing. "I believe something unusual and extraordinary happened." The zoo was working with a security contractor to have a video surveillance system installed, Mollinedo said. Zoo keepers were playing games with the facility's lions and tigers showing them the movie "The Lion King" to keep them occupied while they were stuck inside, he said.

http://cbs5.com/local/tiger.zoo.hearing.2.639848.html
 
Lions and tigers back on public display next week at S.F. Zoo

The lions and tigers at the San Francisco Zoo could be back on public display next week, more than a month after they were quarantined away from public view following the Christmas Day tiger attack, city and zoo officials said today.

The zoo's four lions and four tigers have lived in cages behind their grotto as contractors work to raise the height of their enclosures so that the walls meet minimum safety standards. The tiger that escaped and killed a 17-year-old visitor is believed to have jumped over her grotto's 12 1/2-foot moat wall. The minimum recommended height for such walls is about 16.4 feet. In the weeks since the animals were quarantined, zookeepers have come up with creative ways to stimulate the cats, including entertaining them with games and toys and even showing them videos of the Disney cartoon "The Lion King."

During the first Board of Supervisors hearing on the fatal tiger attack, zoo officials today said the grotto renovations should be complete by next week. They hope to release the cats from quarantine on Feb. 7.

Though zoo officials did not offer an explanation for how the 250-pound Siberian tiger, Tatiana, escaped from her enclosure last month, they did accept responsibility for the attack that killed Carlos Sousa Jr. and injured two of his friends. "Under no circumstances is it OK for an animal to escape its enclosure," said Nick Podell, chairman of the San Francisco Zoological Society, the nonprofit that manages the zoo in partnership with the city. "I want to deliver a mea culpa for the zoo. There is no excuse."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/01/28/BAFPUNLLH.DTL&feed=rss.bayarea
 
You know, I'm not a big fan of the zoo either. Hell, it's the 21st century and they didn't even have security cameras installed! For cryin' out loud. It seems this zoo was stuck back in the 1950s.
 
jilly said:
I'm wondering why Geragos or Cardoza haven't filed lawsuits yet. Do you know?
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Because they really know that their clients taunted the tiger???:waitasec:Just a wild guess.
 
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