Tim Bosma: Dellen Millard & Mark Smich chgd w/Murder; Christina Noudga, Accessory

[Snoofo]

I think making a judgement call on the quality of the evidence against DM, MS and CN is probably not allowable under the publication ban, otherwise reporters would already have let us know that there is "strong evidence" or "a weak case", etc

ABro (and many of us) already stated some opinions with much less info at hand. Carli's a b or c statements below don't ask her to opine on strength evidence, it could be following her gut for all we know. At any rate, I agree with Arnie that ABro is intelligent. I'm sure she can determine better than any of us what would get her into trouble and would never say too much. Sorry AB, to have put you on the spot.

So, what do you think aBro, having been present to the the hearings... are you (a) less convinced (b) more convinced or (c) unchanged in your certainty that DM committed the crimes of which he is accused? Same questions for each of MS and CN.

 

[ABro]

Thank you for the kind words. :blushing:

I don’t want to say anything that will give any indication of the strength (or lack thereof) of the evidence so I am going to pass on Carli’s question. (This is a bit overly cautious of me, but it's best for my peace of mind since I work independently without the benefit of a staff lawyer and this is a highly sensitive case.)

I will, however, say that attending the hearing drove home the point that, in discussing a case like this, the known facts are way, way, way more important than feelings or gut-based theories.

Just to be clear, these are the opinions, I’ve expressed in the past:

June 26

I see no incentive whatsoever for the Crown to make a deal with either of the accused in the Bosma case.

They've got credible witnesses, the victim's remains on Millard's farm, a guy with a livestock incinerator and no livestock, and the truck in his mother's driveway.

The only thing they have to fear is a glove that don't fit.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...tina-Noudga-Accessory&p=10656785#post10656785

I’ve also said on many occasions, including here on Websleuths on July 17, that I still had unanswered questions about the case:

While I have always thought there was loads of evidence against the accused in this case, there were always little things that bothered me. For example, the question of the third suspect -- was there or wasn't there one? -- and if the cops had the case all sewn up, why did it look as if they didn't have this seemingly crucial piece of information?

I always assumed Millard's self confidence -- as displayed in his letter and the Toronto Star intvu -- was due to the fact that he knew the cops were missing some important pieces of the puzzle.

I suspect that changed with the April arrests.

This is just my working theory, nothing more.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...tina-Noudga-Accessory&p=10759476#post10759476

And this is what I wrote re Christina Noudga on July 20:

Well, there are some key differences between CN and DM. She wasn't seen by witnesses, didn't have the victim's remains on her property, his truck at her mother's, and didn't recently purchase a livestock incinerator for which she had no use.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...tina-Noudga-Accessory&p=10769878#post10769878

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You should all know that despite the publication ban, it is possible for any member of the public to request a transcript of the hearing. The ruling was only an hour long so it would not be prohibitively expensive. Accredited members of the press can also obtain a digital audio transcript for $35 (per day I believe). Needless to say, any transcript obtained is subject to the publication ban and there are criminal charges for breaking a ban.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

The names of her parents can’t be published either after the judge approved a second ban sought by Noudga’s lawyer, who said her parents were concerned publicizing their identities could affect their business.

Especially if CN intends to use her degree to work at her parents business upon graduation.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4750808-video-girlfriend-in-bosma-murder-case-gets-bail/

But it is waaayyyyy to late, isn't it?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

She worked as a lifeguard for the City of Toronto. Don't know if ankle bracelets are waterproof - would certainly be conspicuous.

Because different states use different devices made by different companies, the level of water-resistance varies, but they all should be able to withstand a simple shower. This GPS monitoring ankle bracelet, for example, is waterproof up to 50 feet, so it's conceivable that someone could safely and legally snorkel while under the watchful eye of the state. Others include instructions that say they shouldn't to be used in a pool or jacuzzi. If a signal is blocked because the monitor is submerged past a point it can handle, it will register that the wearer has tampered with the monitor or left their house and the authorities will be contacted.

http://mentalfloss.com/article/5603...r-swim-electronic-house-arrest-ankle-monitors

 

[SnooperDuper]

After CN was arrested April 10, many news outlets started referring to her as his "once-girlfriend", "ex-girlfriend", "former girlfriend", etc. At the same time, many other news outlets are calling her DM's girlfriend. So which is it? Has CN disavowed the relationship? Or is she still holding a candle for him?

 

[drlucas]

Thank you for the kind words.


You should all know that despite the publication ban, it is possible for any member of the public to request a transcript of the hearing. The ruling was only an hour long so it would not be prohibitively expensive. Accredited members of the press can also obtain a digital audio transcript for $35 (per day I believe). Needless to say, any transcript obtained is subject to the publication ban and there are criminal charges for breaking a ban.

Can this written transcript be ordered online, or do you need to go to the specific court house and request at an order desk? Are they made available same day or are multiple trips necessary? I'm likely heading up to Flamborough in couple of weeks so maybe I'll stop if they are only available at the desk.

 

[Arnie M]

My personal views count for nothing ..... but if CN is not deeply involved I hope she gets off lightly... here is why ...

All too often men (criminal men) get into trouble and then turn to girlfreinds , mom's , sisters , for help ..... even escaped convicts go to their girls for temporary help

It may not be correct , but there is always a (misguided) sense of loyalty those girls have for their men , and those men take advantage of it , and those men know darn well they are taking advantage of it.

Let me put it another way .... if we have knowledge of a stranger committing a crime our natural instincts are to call the police

But when we have knowledge of family or loved ones breaking the law , our instincts are never immediately to call police.

Hope that makes sense .... I am just venting .... maybe CN simply got caught up in a moment of misguided loyalty without fully realizing the seriousness of it at the time.

 

[matou]

Not so sympathy here. I only really noticed this case because of SB's appeal in tears on live television "It's only a truck" will remain with me for a long time. CN did whatever she did on the same day that happened. JMO

 

[ABro]

Can this written transcript be ordered online, or do you need to go to the specific court house and request at an order desk? Are they made available same day or are multiple trips necessary? I'm likely heading up to Flamborough in couple of weeks so maybe I'll stop if they are only available at the desk.

LOL. Order online!!?? Ontario courts. That would be way too easy.

You will have to go through the Hamilton courthouse and might get bumped from criminal to superior or vice versa. Luckily, the Hamilton crew are pretty good and might accept a phone, email or fax order.

How fast they do the transcript depends on the availability of a court reporter.

 

[SnooperDuper]

My personal views count for nothing ..... but if CN is not deeply involved I hope she gets off lightly... here is why ...

All too often men (criminal men) get into trouble and then turn to girlfreinds , mom's , sisters , for help ..... even escaped convicts go to their girls for temporary help

It may not be correct , but there is always a (misguided) sense of loyalty those girls have for their men , and those men take advantage of it , and those men know darn well they are taking advantage of it.

Let me put it another way .... if we have knowledge of a stranger committing a crime our natural instincts are to call the police

But when we have knowledge of family or loved ones breaking the law , our instincts are never immediately to call police.

Hope that makes sense .... I am just venting .... maybe CN simply got caught up in a moment of misguided loyalty without fully realizing the seriousness of it at the time.

CN has had every opportunity to make it easier on herself. From DM's arrest on May 10, 2013, to her arrest on April 10, 2014, she had 335 days to come clean and go to LE and tell them what she knew.

That is NOT temporary help. That is a YEAR of help.

Even now, she is being uncooperative, and her lawyer says they will go to trial.

Word is that she never spoke to LE, so whatever she is on the hook for is more than words and hearsay.

What's in it for her...money? I think this is about something much more shallow than loyalty.

Personally, I hope she gets 25 years in prison for assisting DM for a year, and continuing to assist him into the future.

 

[Juballee]

I am always a little surprised by the harsh judgements people pronounce on others without ever even knowing what they did or didn't do yet. To me, it all comes across as prejudice, which is the act of judging someone or something without knowing all the facts, if I recall correctly. There was so much talk of how people who don't apply for or receive bail must be guilty, and yet here she is out on bail and people are still casting their judgments without knowing what she was even charged with doing, let alone whether or not she did it. Personally, I will wait to hear what happened before I judge her, but if I had to just go by what we know so far, she doesn't look evil at all to me. But all of this is just my opinion only.

 

[MsSherlock]

CN has had every opportunity to make it easier on herself. From DM's arrest on May 10, 2013, to her arrest on April 10, 2014, she had 335 days to come clean and go to LE and tell them what she knew.

That is NOT temporary help. That is a YEAR of help.

Even now, she is being uncooperative, and her lawyer says they will go to trial.

Word is that she never spoke to LE, so whatever she is on the hook for is more than words and hearsay.

What's in it for her...money? I think this is about something much more shallow than loyalty.

Personally, I hope she gets 25 years in prison for assisting DM for a year, and continuing to assist him into the future.

Totally agree Snooper-IMHO, there's always the possibility that CN viewed DM as a "good catch" and may still hold out hope of being compensated financially. Perhaps DM's money and the lifestyle it could provide CN was enough for her to do whatever DM wanted?

It'll be interesting to see exactly how involved she was. OTOH for CN to be so cold and callous as to not come forward immediately when SB's pleas where hitting the airwaves is disturbing to say the least. Instead she retained a lawyer and went on with her life for over a year? Who paid for this lawyer?

Also, IMHO, the fact that CN was able to apply herself to a full compliment of 4th year courses at York, in light of her boyfriend being locked in the slammer facing 1st degree murder charges, in light of the grizzly murder he was first charged with, the additional searches at the farm, the horrific grief a family was suffering, in light of the additional murder charges with WM and LB- it's nothing short of absolutely amazing. I can't imagine that there are too many 21/22 year old women who would possess the ability to compartmentalize these events. Personally, I'd be a mess. Either she's a genius and doesn't need to focus on school at all or her rich boyfriends murder charges aren't that big of a deal to her. MOO

 

[MsSherlock]

Seems to me that CN was pretty understanding of DM's need for variety. Wonder if she found out about the ex's presence at WM's on the night of his death via AB's article? Then, OTOH, guys with money do seem to attract a much more understanding woman. MOO

"Noudga has been involved with Millard since the summer of 2011 although he continued to see other women. He also remained in touch with his ex-fiancee who was with him and his mother on the night police were called to investigate the death of Wayne Millard."

http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/tag/christina-noudga

 

[ABro]

Rhere's always the possibility that CN viewed DM as a "good catch" and may still hold out hope of being compensated financially. Perhaps DM's money and the lifestyle it could provide CN was enough for her to do whatever DM wanted?

One thing, I've noticed about DM is that he seemed to attract people who viewed him as an ATM. Being friends/lovers with DM meant free vacations, meals, jetskis, spa days, a Vera Wang wedding dress (which went unused) and even an $800,000 house for one lucky recipient.

What's interesting too is that the only people who have had anything positive to say about DM are those who financially benefited from their relationship to him.

Now, some might say, this is just the cost (no pun intended) of being rich, but there are plenty of wealthy people out there who manage to cultivate ordinary relationships without money in the middle of everything.

The fact that money figured so prominently in DM's friendships and relationships suggests this was the way he arranged it. Doling out the dollars to those lining up at the trough put him in control.

I've always thought there was a lot of artifice in the humble Costco shopper image cultivated by DM and his lawyer.

We've all heard about Wayne's beat up pick up trucks, but -- little known fact -- he also had a Hummer. A little out of character for an environmentally conscious, animal rights-advocating family -- isn't it?

 

[matou]

One thing, I've noticed about DM is that he seemed to attract people who viewed him as an ATM. Being friends/lovers with DM meant free vacations, meals, jetskis, spa days, a Vera Wang wedding dress (which went unused) and even an $800,000 house for one lucky recipient.

What's interesting too is that the only people who have had anything positive to say about DM are those who financially benefited from their relationship to him.

Now, some might say, this is just the cost (no pun intended) of being rich, but there are plenty of wealthy people out there who manage to cultivate ordinary relationships without money in the middle of everything.

The fact that money figured so prominently in DM's friendships and relationships suggests this was the way he arranged it. Doling out the dollars to those lining up at the trough put him in control.

I've always thought there was a lot of artifice in the humble Costco shopper image cultivated by DM and his lawyer.

We've all heard about Wayne's beat up pick up trucks, but -- little known fact -- he also had a Hummer. A little out of character for an environmentally conscious, animal rights-advocating family -- isn't it?

Great post! thank you for this. I agree with you on the ATM thing. Do you know if he purchased any other properties mainly for other people (but his name was on the title)? TIA

 

[Carli]

We've all heard about Wayne's beat up pick up trucks, but -- little known fact -- he also had a Hummer. A little out of character for an environmentally conscious, animal rights-advocating family -- isn't it?

I don't mean to be a stick in the mud on this but could we have a source, please? Also, as I understand it, WM was either a murder victim or an innocent family member. Either way, I'm not sure that his degree of social consciousness is our business. Just saying. IMO. MOO. IMHO. etc.

 

[ABro]

I don't mean to be a stick in the mud on this but could we have a source, please? Also, as I understand it, WM was either a murder victim or an innocent family member. Either way, I'm not sure that his degree of social consciousness is our business. Just saying. IMO. MOO. IMHO. etc.

The source is two separate interviews with 1) a Millard family member 2) A long-time friend of the family. Both brought up the Hummer of their own accord.

I can assure you I too was quite surprised by that vehicle choice.

And you are right that WM's choice of ride is up to him. It just seems somewhat incongruous for a director of the Canadian Flora and Fauna Society. A Hummer can flatten a lot of flora and fauna.

I guess my bigger point is that families tend to cultivate their own mythologies.

 

[ABro]

Great post! thank you for this. I agree with you on the ATM thing. Do you know if he purchased any other properties mainly for other people (but his name was on the title)? TIA

More than a few of the people on the "no contact" lists lived in the Maple Gate basement at various times. And at least one lived at Riverside.

The basement dwellers were freeloaders. It's not clear whether the occupants of the other properties paid any rent or a market value rent.

 

[Carli]

CN has had every opportunity to make it easier on herself. From DM's arrest on May 10, 2013, to her arrest on April 10, 2014, she had 335 days to come clean and go to LE and tell them what she knew.

That is NOT temporary help. That is a YEAR of help.

Even now, she is being uncooperative, and her lawyer says they will go to trial.

Word is that she never spoke to LE, so whatever she is on the hook for is more than words and hearsay.

What's in it for her...money? I think this is about something much more shallow than loyalty.

Personally, I hope she gets 25 years in prison for assisting DM for a year, and continuing to assist him into the future.

I suppose the devil's advocate in me must about ask the basis on which you presume CN to be guilty as charged. As we know, an "accessory after the fact" allegation, to be proven, requires that the person so charged performed some act "knowing that the accused has committed an offense".
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Canadian_Criminal_Law/Offences/Accessory_After_the_Fact
Obviously, if she did NOT know that an offense had taken place, what would she go to LE to report?

Frankly, the charge is all the more puzzling to me given your additional information. Assuming she never spoke to LE, then what physical evidence could they possibly have acquired that would prove what she was thinking - not only just thinking, but specifically thinking on May 9. Maybe they have another witness available willing to testify that THEY know what she was thinking? Well, it will all unravel in time, we hope. Meanwhile, whatever she knew, knows, or may come to know in the future is all pretty much conjecture, so far as I can tell. IMO. IMHO. MOO. etc .

 

[Carli]

The source is two separate interviews with 1) a Millard family member 2) A long-time friend of the family. Both brought up the Hummer of their own accord.

I can assure you I too was quite surprised by that vehicle choice.

And you are right that WM's choice of ride is up to him. It just seems somewhat incongruous for a director of the Canadian Flora and Fauna Society. A Hummer can flatten a lot of flora and fauna.

I guess my bigger point is that families tend to cultivate their own mythologies.

I, for one, don't wish to be caught defending any military vehicle including those tarted up for civilian markets but should point out that Hummers are billed as being capable of taking people deep into the back country where few other wheeled transport vehicles can take you - presumably a capability that would be of interest to a guy who appears to have had years of active participation in nature and naturalist causes including documentary film making. IMO. MOO. (Of course, the downside of using hummers for this purpose is that the only vehicle able to drag a hummer out of trouble in the outback, is another hummer. And hummers are uniquely and extraordinarily subject to breakdown. But that's another story. MOO IMHO MHO etc.) Oh yeah, and the other thing about this hideous vehicle is that used ones are usually quite cheap.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Ed_ylkYhKAc