Titanic tourist sub goes missing in Atlantic Ocean, June 2023 #3

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Stockton Rush actually said "safety is pure waste"- he thumbed his nose at rules and safety measures, took people's money (lots of it), and was so arrogant he even put his own life in danger. Too bad we can't say "we told you so"--- since he was vaporized along with the others. I read that waiver and it was pretty clear that this was a dangerous journey on an experimental vehicle. It is very sad, especially for the 19 year old who hadn't even begun to live his life. It was Mr. Rush's ego that really caused this problem as he was warned by many people that catastrophe was just around the corner, and so it came to pass.
 
ilovewings said:
Stockton Rush actually said "safety is pure waste"- he thumbed his nose at rules and safety measures, took people's money (lots of it), and was so arrogant he even put his own life in danger. Too bad we can't say "we told you so"--- since he was vaporized along with the others. I read that waiver and it was pretty clear that this was a dangerous journey on an experimental vehicle. It is very sad, especially for the 19 year old who hadn't even begun to live his life. It was Mr. Rush's ego that really caused this problem as he was warned by many people that catastrophe was just around the corner, and so it came to pass.
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You need to provide Stockton's quote in context. He said "AT SOME POINT, safety is just pure waste." He was making a comment about over regulation. While I place the blame for this tragedy on his shoulders, we need to be accurate in what we post. He was accurate in many of his comments about regulations. He just went way, way WAY overboard on that.
 
If a civil lawsuit is brought against the estate of Stockton Rush or against OceanGate, I wonder how it would play out given that Stockton Rush trusted the submersible enough that he went on the dive along with his passengers, and also that Pierre-Henri Nargeolet also trusted the safety of the submersible. PH Nargeolet had made submersible dives to the Titanic dozens of times, by 2012 he apparently had made about 30 submersible dives. He would know about risk and danger of submersible dives to the Titanic and still chose to board Titan.

So I wonder if this would work against a lawsuit since PH judged the submersible on this occasion to be safe enough to go down to the Titanic on that fateful day.

Here is the link - with a good interview with PH Nargoelet embeded in the article. Seems like a very capable expert and thoughtful person, I can see why he is so respected by everyone and known as "Mr. Titanic" in France.

www.forbes.com

Meet The Titanic's Greatest Explorer (No, It Isn't James Cameron)

Paul-Henry Nargeolet is the Titanic's greatest explorer.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com
 
David Pogue's post-mortem on his encounter with Stockton Rush and the Titan:


The article goes into extensive detail about Pogue's week-long experience, although there isn't too much that is new. A few interesting items:
  1. Pogue didn't pay too much attention to the waiver as he "assumed it was the usual boilerplate CYA stuff you sign before you go skiing, rafting, or trampoline jumping."
  2. P.H. Nargeolet told Pogue that he had no worries about the sub, although Nargeolet also seemed to think that Boeing was very involved in developing the hull.
  3. OceanGate was unhappy with Pogue's story on CBS.
  4. Pogue now realizes he "should not have been reassured by the Titan’s 20 successful dives to the seafloor. [he] should have been terrified. Each dive brought the sub closer to destruction."
 
Boxer said:
Yellowstone national park was created because tourists were raiding the place and breaking off everything they could chip away.
The US could do that internally. International solutions probably harder.
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You only need to see current tourist videos harassing animals and breaking rules to see how that protection is going.
 
Boxer said:
Yellowstone national park was created because tourists were raiding the place and breaking off everything they could chip away.
The US could do that internally. International solutions probably harder.l
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We have raised a great generation of kids concerned about the future. These days many of the smartest Harvard, Oxford and Stanford graduates major in environmental protection, and they are really concerned and invested in making the world that they inherited from us more habitable.

Unfortunately, attention-seeking is a regular human trait. There is nothing wrong in becoming an Instagram or TikTok influencer, but sometimes people might forget about the cost of the ratings. This is how we end up with the overwhelming human presence in the Antarctic.

However, what with these problems, frontier tourism is still a great thing as compared to, say, despicable elite safari clubs. Extreme tourists are trying to introduce humans to nature, not destroy it. And, from what I understand, Shahzada Dawood was into protection of animals and natural habitats. I wish he lived longer and entered Wikipedia as the philanthropist invested in preservation of animals rather than as the victim of the Titan disaster.

JMO: out of the five, for Rush, himself mattered the most. Nargeolet, I believe, would have preferred instant catastrophe to slowly getting old. About Hamish Harding, I don't know that much but he was had experienced extreme situations before. I suspect that he might have gotten tired of waiting. It might have been about moving forward.

I would be always wondering if the Dawoods were less experienced with extreme travels and more naive. They probably traveled, but to places like rainforests, where other people go. This is why I am curious as to know how much they were told about the dangers of the Titan. Shahzada Dawood was interested in "the Titanic" and saw other famed explorers such as Nargeolet or Harding partaking. It could have been enough.

But there is a difference if you hear "you will see the Titanic" vs "you will see the Titanic, but as the time traveler - from the beginning of the trip to drowning in icy water". If the second offer is worded as the first one, there might be an element of criminality. It is very important to know what Mr. Dawood heard.
 
Sundog said:
Here is the link - with a good interview with PH Nargoelet embeded in the article. Seems like a very capable expert and thoughtful person, I can see why he is so respected by everyone and known as "Mr. Titanic" in France.
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RSBM I came away with the same impression. Terrible loss :(
 
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LinasK said:
www.insider.com

The Titanic sub once malfunctioned and couldn't reach the surface, so the crew had to rock from side to side to nudge weights loose, former passenger says

A former Titan sub passenger said the vessel malfunctioned during a voyage to the Titanic 2 years ago and the crew had to rock the craft to resurface.
www.insider.com www.insider.com
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I do have to wonder if the media is authenticating all these ‘close call’ stories that now are coming forth. This one I do question. Given the ocean water pressure is described as immense, how would passengers have the ability to rock the sub and if indeed that was possible, what would prevent the weights from falling off if they could be so easily dislodged? Sounds fishy to me.

“OceanGate Expeditions CEO Stockton Rush and French explorer Paul-Henri Nargeolet, who were on the sub, devised a plan: they asked Price and the other passengers to rock from side to side to try to dislodge the weights.

Price said that "when we heard our first clunk, that was such a relief."…”
 
MistyWaters said:
I have to say the general lack of empathy towards the loss of life of the victims or their grieving family members by the media and SM has surprised me, instead it’s leaning toward blaming everyone.

Here's why people are being so mean about the Titan going down​


“They had it coming. They deserved it. Who's stupid enough to pay $250,000 for a ride in a tin can operated by a video game controller? Why should we be footing the bill for the rescue?

These sentiments flooded social media as countless people sounded off — and even said much, much worse — about the missing Titan submersible even before its fate and that of the five people trapped inside was known. And they didn't stop even after news emerged that the vessel had imploded and the victims' families began grieving.

When a news story has all the hallmarks of a Hollywood thriller — billionaire characters, a mysterious adventure gone wrong a massive search as the clock ticks down to zero oxygen — it is difficult to look away. Some say the tidal wave of cynical sentiment and bad jokes in social media that accompanied the coverage, and still persists, is schadenfreude, or pleasure people get by celebrating others' misfortune. Other experts say it's driven by wealth inequality, or that the response ultimately reflects a lack of civil discourse……..”
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Someone was honest enough to say that he was living on such a tight budget that he was simply envious. Maybe this?

There are two ways to look at it. One, "they are rich", and another, "they create jobs". $250 is way above the cost of the most prestigious college for a kid, so for me, spending the cost of someone's education on a Titanic is a whim. But at least, businessmen make something tangible, so overall, the group is to be respected.

And btw, some explorers were rich. Charles Darwin married the heiress to Wedgewood fortune. In fact, it was her father who financed Darwin's trip on Beagle, as his own family refused to. His trip changed the way we view the world.
 
bestill said:
Is it serendipitous that Stockton's wife is related to victims of the Titanic, or did his love of sea exploration and the Titanic bring them together or was it premeditated? Very curious about that. Regardless (imo) the Titanic has done enough damage to her world, I hope that she will be able to navigate through all of this.
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Probably, Princeton and own guts. Stockton Rush had two ancestors sign the Declaration of Independence. (Benjamin Rush and Richard Stockton). I think we are talking about the descendants of smart, active, ambitious people. Princeton is unsurprising. JMO. I wonder if there is a special push to achieve if you come from lines of achievers, though.
 
Charlot123 said:
Probably, Princeton and own guts. Stockton Rush had two ancestors sign the Declaration of Independence. (Benjamin Rush and Richard Stockton). I think we are talking about the descendants of smart, active, ambitious people. Princeton is unsurprising. JMO. I wonder if there is a special push to achieve if you come from lines of achievers, though.
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BBM - oh I do think so. I think the expectations are very high for the next generation. I read a bit after I posted that and see that the married couple seemed to have bonded over more than the Titanic, they both had a love for aviation. Interesting.
 
Charlot123 said:
Someone was honest enough to say that he was living on such a tight budget that he was simply envious. Maybe this?

There are two ways to look at it. One, "they are rich", and another, "they create jobs". $250 is way above the cost of the most prestigious college for a kid, so for me, spending the cost of someone's education on a Titanic is a whim. But at least, businessmen make something tangible, so overall, the group is to be respected.

And btw, some explorers were rich. Charles Darwin married the heiress to Wedgewood fortune. In fact, it was her father who financed Darwin's trip on Beagle, as his own family refused to. His trip changed the way we view the world.
Click to expand...

Something else wealthy people and explorers have in common is very high risk tolerance. They’re not concerned by taking risks and chances, which is often why they’re ultimately successful (but saying always). Meanwhile a lot of us pay head to risk taking by factoring in what could happen in the worst case scenario. Whether that’s practical or smart or it’s what limits our chances of success is entirely another debate.
 
Mrs G Norris said:
How do we feel about PH taking items from The Titanic to sell on to collectors .. Titanic expert on sub helped collect haul of artifacts from wreck
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Pieces of the titanic have been on tour for several years. Presently the show is in Orlando. Someone was responsible for salvaging the 300 artifacts. DM is well known for sensationalism and just because items were salvaged doesn’t mean they were all sold.

titanicorlando.com

Admission | Titanic: The Artifact Exhibition

Step back in time to April 1912 when you visit Titanic: The Artifact Exhibition in Orlando! See more than 300 artifacts, costumed actors, and full-scale room recreations!
titanicorlando.com titanicorlando.com

Step Aboard Titanic in Orlando!​

When you visit the amazing Titanic: The Artifact Exhibition, you embark on a journey back in time to April 1912, when the ship embarked on its maiden voyage! You receive a replica boarding pass, assume the role of a passenger, and follow a chronological journey through life on Titanic. The Exhibition features more than 300 artifacts and historical items as well as full-scale room recreations.

Learn about the world’s most infamous ship and its passengers while strolling through galleries featuring the Grand Staircase, First Class Parlor Suite, Verandah Café, and more. Walk out onto the Promenade Deck and feel the chill of the cold Atlantic air. Touch an iceberg that is the same temperature as the water on that fateful night. See the second largest piece of Titanic ever recovered, the “Little Big Piece,” a 2-ton section of the original ship’s hull!
 
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Eloise said:
Yeah same. I do find it hard to have much sympathy for the others for a variety of reasons - different for each of them (for example, PH Nargeolet I do feel sad about, but he himself had lived a full life and knew the dangers well and was prepared to die down there), but I have loads of sympathy for young Suleman and his lost potential, and of course for his mum.

I can't help but feel like Stockton Rush basically got away with manslaughter, at least. JMO. You can give people all the waivers in the world to sign, it doesn't remove your ethical and moral obligation to make things as safe as possible (and I know at least where I live, having people sign a waiver doesn't actually do anything to protect you against claims of negligence anyway, though it may mitigate some claims)
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how do you know he 'was prepared to die down there'?
 
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