Titanic tourist sub goes missing in Atlantic Ocean, June 2023 #4

[Charlot123]

I didn't read PH's comments to mean that he didn't care about his life, but that he loved his work so much that he was willing to take the risk, knowing that deep dives to the Titanic were risky for anyone at all times and that something could happen at any time. And if it did, at least it would be a quick death, which is what most people hope for when their time comes.

I think he cared deeply about others' lives from everything I have read about him, and how respected and beloved he is in his own country, in France. And from the interviews of those close to him who are grieving his loss.

Specifically PH… he doesn’t look 77 at all, but I can imagine that being bedridden and incapacitated would have been the worst outcome for him. Quick death would have probably be welcomed. Not actively searched for, but definitely not avoided. For him, it is exactly the situation when he died the way he lived.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Stockton Rush said he wanted to be remembered as an innovator---
Sorry Mr Rush that will not be your legacy--
Instead you will be remembered as a hard-headed egotistical greedy
Jerk who sacrificed your own life, and worse, other lives
Because you refused to make safety a priority. You valued money
And so called innovation--above the most important element-
SAFETY!!!! There is no forgiveness for what you have done!

I'm starting to feel same about P-HN too, he was seemingly known by all as an explorer and researcher
but he was taking free trips on the Titan when he knew it wasn't safe and he was legitimising the business to innocent people who were being groomed and exploited for their money IMO
-but-
he was really just a treasure hunter wanting to claim the valuables of the long deceased from a grave yard
IMO MOO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Specifically PH… he doesn’t look 77 at all, but I can imagine that being bedridden and incapacitated would have been the worst outcome for him. Quick death would have probably be welcomed. Not actively searched for, but definitely not avoided. For him, it is exactly the situation when he died the way he lived.

JMO but I think the fact he said the actual words, then yes, he didn't care so much for knowing that if the titan developed a fault it would be instant death - none of this slowly dying of oxygen deprivation that we were mugged off with the story of by the mainstream media - he knew, instantaneous! And that is fine, he can make that decision for himself but if so, he should have stuck to going on two man dives with just him and SR.

The pair of them took the lives of innocent people, one of whom only 19 years old and an innocent in this world, bless him taking his cozy socks and a rubics cube... doesn't that speak enough

JMO MOO

 

[housewife]

Stockton Rush said he wanted to be remembered as an innovator---
Sorry Mr Rush that will not be your legacy--
Instead you will be remembered as a hard-headed egotistical greedy
Jerk who sacrificed your own life, and worse, other lives
Because you refused to make safety a priority. You valued money
And so called innovation--above the most important element-
SAFETY!!!! There is no forgiveness for what you have done!

Commercial human spaceflight is regulated by the Federal Aviation Administration…
The FAA also requires operators to tell their crew and spaceflight participants that the agency hasn’t certified their vehicles as safe.

So is this the main difference between experimental marine/space travel? Space seems to be better regulated for civilian clients? What protects sea tourists from being lied to by private companies?

 

[ArianeEmory]

Commercial human spaceflight is regulated by the Federal Aviation Administration…
The FAA also requires operators to tell their crew and spaceflight participants that the agency hasn’t certified their vehicles as safe.

So is this the main difference between experimental marine/space travel? Space seems to be better regulated for civilian clients? What protects sea tourists from being lied to by private companies?

I’m going out on a limb here, but doesn’t the FAA lack the ability to oversee anything but the United States?

There’s a reason they didn’t even launch the Titan‘s carrier ship from the US, right?

(These aren’t leading question, I’m definitely just making assumptions.)

 

[ArianeEmory]

I look foward to one day visiting the Florida museum to see the Titanic artifacts that he helped to recover and preserve for the world to see, and while there pay my respects to those who lost their lives on the Titanic, and also to PH, this giant of a man.

$25 a head to see (Per the Florida museum‘s site) about 200 artifacts. But, again per the company’s website, “In total, RMS Titanic, Inc. has recovered 5,500 artifacts from the wreck site.” So where are the rest of them?

I’m admittedly somewhat new to this topic and I’m still trying to untangle it myself, but it seems clear a lot of artifacts have exchanged private hands for a LOT of money, and it also seems no one is in a hurry to donate (or even sell) those other thousands of items to a non-commercial museum.

Dwarf-tossing, 'Duck Dynasty,' and Al Capone's vault: Inside the strange company that effectively controls access to the Titanic

RMS Titanic Inc. was founded by an unlikely cohort of adventurers in the late 1980s and now has the exclusive right to salvage artifacts from the wreck of the Titanic.

www.insider.com

Robert Ballard, who found the wreck in the first place, thought the site should remain untouched.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Commercial human spaceflight is regulated by the Federal Aviation Administration…
The FAA also requires operators to tell their crew and spaceflight participants that the agency hasn’t certified their vehicles as safe.

So is this the main difference between experimental marine/space travel? Space seems to be better regulated for civilian clients? What protects sea tourists from being lied to by private companies?

There's surely got to be legislation and regulation? Just that Stockton didn't follow it.

I get the impression that if someone had alerted some form of authority in relation to shipping or marine or diving safety, even the navy or the coastguards, maybe somewhere there's rules, regulations, protocols that aren't just slid over because someone arrogant wishes to disregard them?

I mean this is ultimately human rights violations issue IMO with elements of deception, reckless endangerment, fraud, misrepresentation, dishonesty... on and on

JMO MOO

 

[Luna20]

Just watched on CNN: caught just a bit of the one hour special on the Titan. I haven’t been on the thread for a few days so I’m not sure if this info was previously posted.

Rush purchased the carbon fiber from Boeing “at a good price” because it was pass the expiration date. Boeing had no knowledge of what it was being purchased for nor did they recommend it for anything.

The waiver that each person signed disclosed that the titan was not licensed or certified.

On the day of launch the crew was inside for hours before the launch, as is customary for the multiple checks on numerous items.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Just watched on CNN: caught just a bit of the one hour special on the Titan. I haven’t been on the thread for a few days so I’m not sure if this info was previously posted.

Rush purchased the carbon fiber from Boeing “at a good price” because it was pass the expiration date. Boeing had no knowledge of what it was being purchased for nor did they recommend it for anything.

The waiver that each person signed disclosed that the titan was not licensed or certified.

On the day of launch the crew was inside for hours before the launch, as is customary for the multiple checks on numerous items.

Wow so Boeing have changed their initial story a little bit which was something along the lines of they don't sell carbon fiber and hadn't done any dealings with SR

 

[ilovewings]

Just watched on CNN: caught just a bit of the one hour special on the Titan. I haven’t been on the thread for a few days so I’m not sure if this info was previously posted.

Rush purchased the carbon fiber from Boeing “at a good price” because it was pass the expiration date. Boeing had no knowledge of what it was being purchased for nor did they recommend it for anything.

The waiver that each person signed disclosed that the titan was not licensed or certified.

On the day of launch the crew was inside for hours before the launch, as is customary for the multiple checks on numerous items.

That waiver was clear as could be that the Titan was not licensed or certified so why would people take that kind of chance? it is mind boggling- it is the "it can't happen to me' syndrome or they had so much faith in SR that they just believed him that it was safe even though it was not licensed or certified-- he talked a good line I guess---

 

[Luna20]

That waiver was clear as could be that the Titan was not licensed or certified so why would people take that kind of chance? it is mind boggling- it is the "it can't happen to me' syndrome or they had so much faith in SR that they just believed him that it was safe even though it was not licensed or certified-- he talked a good line I guess---

It was clear, they had to sign off on it and yet it wasn’t enough of a warning to heed. Defies logic. I wouldn’t do it if everything was certified, licensed and approved by all. So I can’t comprehend the comfort they felt stepping in regardless of the circumstances. There will always be those who want to take the risk.

 

[Luna20]

Wow so Boeing have changed their initial story a little bit which was something along the lines of they don't sell carbon fiber and hadn't done any dealings with SR

This came across as a very rigid statement from Boeing. I didn’t see any of their previous statements so can’t opine on any differences. They will be questioned with the countless others for clearance.

 

[kaen]

It was clear, they had to sign off on it and yet it wasn’t enough of a warning to heed. Defies logic. I wouldn’t do it if everything was certified, licensed and approved by all. So I can’t comprehend the comfort they felt stepping in regardless of the circumstances. There will always be those who want to take the risk.

The head of this company was a great salesman. He knew how to entice and keep naysayers away as we have learned from the gentleman in NV who refused the seats for him and his son as well as the New Yorker article with men in the field who had lots to say. He was so confident (overconfident) that and the price was so high that it probably felt like a once in a lifetime chance. I think the famous Titanic expert gave the owner/leader more clout with folks. Since he was onboard with them I guess they thought he would never lead them to their deaths so these papers were a formality. The 19 year olds mom's interviews also give the sense that yes they talked about this massive danger but felt the odds were on their side. Sad. Terrifying. Not surprising what people will do to make money under the guise of research. Defies logic, indeed. But, it shows that all people can be manipulated into doing dangerous things.

On this front, never would I ever without inspections and industry backing up. But that is me. RIP to all on board this. And, I hope the industry gets regulated beyond the beyond. And, I hope this company goes out of business because the details in the New Yorker article about their practices and hubris is outrageous.

 

[Luna20]

The head of this company was a great salesman. He knew how to entice and keep naysayers away as we have learned from the gentleman in NV who refused the seats for him and his son as well as the New Yorker article with men in the field who had lots to say. He was so confident (overconfident) that and the price was so high that it probably felt like a once in a lifetime chance. I think the famous Titanic expert gave the owner/leader more clout with folks. Since he was onboard with them I guess they thought he would never lead them to their deaths so these papers were a formality. The 19 year olds mom's interviews also give the sense that yes they talked about this massive danger but felt the odds were on their side. Sad. Terrifying. Not surprising what people will do to make money under the guise of research. Defies logic, indeed. But, it shows that all people can be manipulated into doing dangerous things.

On this front, never would I ever without inspections and industry backing up. But that is me. RIP to all on board this. And, I hope the industry gets regulated beyond the beyond. And, I hope this company goes out of business because the details in the New Yorker article about their practices and hubris is outrageous.

Well said, indirect manipulation. Because of certain individuals being on board with the adventure, others acted on their false sense of security.

 

[ArianeEmory]

I get the impression that if someone had alerted some form of authority in relation to shipping or marine or diving safety, even the navy or the coastguards, maybe somewhere there's rules, regulations, protocols that aren't just slid over because someone arrogant wishes to disregard them?

Strongly recommend reading that New Yorker article. They did try to tell the Coast Guard.

But Rush was very good at setting up the company to evade laws of whatever jurisdiction each part of his op was governed by. And good at suing whistleblowers.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

That waiver was clear as could be that the Titan was not licensed or certified so why would people take that kind of chance? it is mind boggling- it is the "it can't happen to me' syndrome or they had so much faith in SR that they just believed him that it was safe even though it was not licensed or certified-- he talked a good line I guess---

Because they had been groomed, lied to, bullied, and coerced. IMO.

Also, world famous P-HN, a man who everyone that knew him held in the highest esteem, was there to make the whole operation look completely above board, safe, and legitimate.

JMO MOO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Strongly recommend reading that New Yorker article. They did try to tell the Coast Guard.

But Rush was very good at setting up the company to evade laws of whatever jurisdiction each part of his op was governed by. And good at suing whistleblowers.

Yes, the article was very clear. I agree. This is on Rush, not anyone else.

I just wish some form of authority with power and jurisdiction could have intervened on him in time before this tragedy.

 

[ilovewings]

Yes, the article was very clear. I agree. This is on Rush, not anyone else.

I just wish some form of authority with power and jurisdiction could have intervened on him in time before this tragedy.

I also think the fact that this vessel made several safe trips over the years was probably used as a selling point by SR. He would probably say we've made several trips over the years and everything has been fine --- 5 trips in 2021 and 5 trips in 2022----and people would think about that and think yeah, everything has been ok up to now, why wouldn't it be ok----that despite the waiver that describes the risks in clear words.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I also think the fact that this vessel made several safe trips over the years was probably used as a selling point by SR. He would probably say we've made several trips over the years and everything has been fine --- 5 trips in 2021 and 5 trips in 2022----and people would think about that and think yeah, everything has been ok up to now, why wouldn't it be ok----that despite the waiver that describes the risks in clear words.

Yes, and the reality being sadly the opposite way around - the more use the submersible got the closer the inevitable day of implosion was coming.

Now I comprehend how a sphere is the safest format for a strong hull, that anything with a 90 degree angle is a weak point, that carbon fibre has literally not ever been used for submersibles, that carbon fibre should be laid in multiple directions not in bands, that the materials have never been approved for use or for the depths, that the titanium rings were glued not bolted ... on and on and on... it seems like a miracle the Titan made any trips intact.

Seems quite clear that in terms of using a cylinder instead of a sphere, building that cylinder of carbon fibre not even applied in the optimum manner, and sticking two titanium rings on either end... the propensity for implosion wasn't just a risk it was 100% guaranteed.

 

[ilovewings]

Yes, and the reality being sadly the opposite way around - the more use the submersible got the closer the inevitable day of implosion was coming.

Now I comprehend how a sphere is the safest format for a strong hull, that anything with a 90 degree angle is a weak point, that carbon fibre has literally not ever been used for submersibles, that carbon fibre should be laid in multiple directions not in bands, that the materials have never been approved for use or for the depths, that the titanium rings were glued not bolted ... on and on and on... it seems like a miracle the Titan made any trips intact.

Seems quite clear that in terms of using a cylinder instead of a sphere, building that cylinder of carbon fibre not even applied in the optimum manner, and sticking two titanium rings on either end... the propensity for implosion wasn't just a risk it was 100% guaranteed.

Excellent post- This was a disaster waiting to happen- sadly