Titanic tourist sub goes missing in Atlantic Ocean, June 2023 #4

[heartandsoul]

The New Yorker article is fantastic. Thank you so much for sharing it here. Very insightful and frustrating.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

The last time Christine Dawood saw her husband, Shahzada, and their son, Suleman, they were specks on the North Atlantic, bobbing on a floating platform about 400 miles from land. It was Father’s Day, June 18, and she watched from the support ship as they climbed into a 22-foot submersible craft called Titan.

Divers closed them inside by tightening a ring of bolts as the craft rolled on the waves about 13,000 feet above the 111-year-old wreckage of the Titanic.

Suleman, 19, carried a Rubik’s Cube. Shahzada had a Nikon camera, eager to capture the view of the seafloor through Titan’s single porthole.

“He was like a vibrating toddler,” said Christine, who stayed on the support ship at the surface with the couple’s daughter, Alina.

The two watched closely. The sun was shining. The ship was steady.
“It was a good morning,” Christine Dawood said.

Later that morning, Ms. Dawood overheard someone saying that communication with Titan had been lost. The United States Coast Guard confirmed that it had happened 1 hour 45 minutes into the dive.

Ms. Dawood went to the bridge, where a team had been monitoring Titan’s slow descent. She was assured that the only communication between the capsule and the ship, through coded computer text messages, was often spotty. If the break lasted more than an hour, the dive would be aborted. Titan would drop weights and come back to the surface.

For hours, Ms. Dawood slowly drowned in dread. By late afternoon, she said, someone told her that they did not know where Titan and its crew were.

“I was also looking out on the ocean, in case I could maybe see them surfacing,” she said.

A Rubik’s Cube, Thick Socks and Giddy Anticipation: The Last Hours of the Titan (Published 2023)

Five voyagers climbed into the Titan submersible in hopes of joining the select few who have seen the wreck of the Titanic up close. But within hours, their text messages stopped coming.

www.nytimes.com

 

[10ofRods]

I was just coming here to say the same. Rush absolutely knew the risk he was putting people at and he didn't care, IMO he used them for money, he groomed them and ultimately killed them all for his own delusional fantasy power trip.

I think the article makes it clear, he was using the wealthy to fund his endeavours because there's literally no way any credible organisation or academic institution would go near him. That was parasitic.

I don't suppose he was trying to start up submarine tourism so much as he was grandiose and wanted to go down in history for pushing the bounds of deep sea exploration.

Seems like PHN quite literally no longer cared about his own life and had Rush not had PH on side making his shady operation look legitimate, those people would still be alive. But why did neither Rush nor PH not care about others' lives? Outrageous.

And what about all the people working for the company? Who is the woman in the video who bolts them inside this deathly capsule? It's been like a death cult, it's only fortuitous more people couldn't fit in the capsule or they'd be gone too.

JMO MOO

I would like a MSM article written by you.

An opinion piece.

 

[Chimera]

Very sad, especially for Ms. Dawood who lost not only her husband but her teen son !

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Very sad, especially for Ms. Dawood who lost not only her husband but her teen son !

And not only her beloved husband and child but half a million dollars too.

$500,000 for two deaths.

 

[ch_13]

The last time Christine Dawood saw her husband, Shahzada, and their son, Suleman, they were specks on the North Atlantic, bobbing on a floating platform about 400 miles from land. It was Father’s Day, June 18, and she watched from the support ship as they climbed into a 22-foot submersible craft called Titan.

Divers closed them inside by tightening a ring of bolts as the craft rolled on the waves about 13,000 feet above the 111-year-old wreckage of the Titanic.

Suleman, 19, carried a Rubik’s Cube. Shahzada had a Nikon camera, eager to capture the view of the seafloor through Titan’s single porthole.

“He was like a vibrating toddler,” said Christine, who stayed on the support ship at the surface with the couple’s daughter, Alina.

The two watched closely. The sun was shining. The ship was steady.
“It was a good morning,” Christine Dawood said.

Later that morning, Ms. Dawood overheard someone saying that communication with Titan had been lost. The United States Coast Guard confirmed that it had happened 1 hour 45 minutes into the dive.

Ms. Dawood went to the bridge, where a team had been monitoring Titan’s slow descent. She was assured that the only communication between the capsule and the ship, through coded computer text messages, was often spotty. If the break lasted more than an hour, the dive would be aborted. Titan would drop weights and come back to the surface.

For hours, Ms. Dawood slowly drowned in dread. By late afternoon, she said, someone told her that they did not know where Titan and its crew were.

“I was also looking out on the ocean, in case I could maybe see them surfacing,” she said.

A Rubik’s Cube, Thick Socks and Giddy Anticipation: The Last Hours of the Titan (Published 2023)

Five voyagers climbed into the Titan submersible in hopes of joining the select few who have seen the wreck of the Titanic up close. But within hours, their text messages stopped coming.

www.nytimes.com

Really interesting article, and I think the first one that provides any perspective from someone who was onboard the Polar Prince.

The Dawood's come across as very down-to-earth people. They flew commercial to St. John's and the whole family (father, mother, son, daughter) traveled together to experience the dive. They were definitely not part of the explorer/adventurer community and I imagine they had no basis to question whatever Rush was telling them about the safety of his sub.

I also thought this bit was interesting:

Alan Stern, a planetary scientist from Colorado, inquired about a Titan dive last July. After Mr. Rush learned of Mr. Stern’s background — jet pilot, polar exploration, leader of NASA’s New Horizon exploration of Pluto and the Kuiper belt — he offered a free ticket. Stern accepted.

“Stockton said, ‘I don’t care if you give a talk — do you want to be the co-pilot?’” he recalled. “‘We’ll get you trained. Get yourself to St. John’s.’ And that’s what I ended up doing.’”

Like the journalists and the youtubers, it's clear that Rush wanted passengers who would add credibility and buzz to his operation.

 

[ForensicToxicologist]

Alan Stern, a planetary scientist from Colorado, inquired about a Titan dive last July. After Mr. Rush learned of Mr. Stern’s background — jet pilot, polar exploration, leader of NASA’s New Horizon exploration of Pluto and the Kuiper belt — he offered a free ticket. Stern accepted.

“Stockton said, ‘I don’t care if you give a talk — do you want to be the co-pilot?’” he recalled. “‘We’ll get you trained. Get yourself to St. John’s.’ And that’s what I ended up doing.’”

Like the journalists and the youtubers, it's clear that Rush wanted passengers who would add credibility and buzz to his operation.

Oh brother. I wonder if this is the “collaboration” with NASA that Rush mentioned which we know has been refuted. Kind of how buying expired carbon fiber from Boeing was twisted into Boeing collaborating on the hull (again his claim was untrue and refuted by the company). I guess there really is a grain of truth in every lie.

 

[Chimera]

And not only her beloved husband and child but half a million dollars too.

$500,000 for two deaths.

For that much money, a more safe and secure submersible should have been able to be constructed ?

 

[CrimeDawg123]

Fantastic New Yorker article.

The Titan Submersible Was “An Accident Waiting to Happen”

Interviews and e-mails with expedition leaders and employees reveal how OceanGate ignored desperate warnings from inside and outside the company. “It’s a lemon,” one wrote.

www.newyorker.com

Yes, absolutely fantastic! Pretty much explains the whole situation clearly and objectively. Well done.

 

[CrimeDawg123]

You’re going to want a strong drink, or some chocolate, or your favorite meditation podcast or whatever. Whatever you rely on to keep your rage levels in check.

(If this topic didn’t necessarily “belong” on a crime forum before, it certainly does now.)

Or all of the above, oh my word! If you haven't read the New Yorker article yet, please do. Gaining even more respect for Lochridge and the other people who called BS on Rush.

BBM

"Soon afterward, Rush asked OceanGate’s director of finance and administration whether she’d like to take over as chief submersible pilot. “It freaked me out that he would want me to be head pilot, since my background is in accounting,” she told me. She added that several of the engineers were in their late teens and early twenties, and were at one point being paid fifteen dollars an hour. Without Lochridge around, “I could not work for Stockton,” she said. “I did not trust him.” As soon as she was able to line up a new job, she quit."

 

[BeachSky]

The last time Christine Dawood saw her husband, Shahzada, and their son, Suleman, they were specks on the North Atlantic, bobbing on a floating platform about 400 miles from land. It was Father’s Day, June 18, and she watched from the support ship as they climbed into a 22-foot submersible craft called Titan.

Divers closed them inside by tightening a ring of bolts as the craft rolled on the waves about 13,000 feet above the 111-year-old wreckage of the Titanic.

Suleman, 19, carried a Rubik’s Cube. Shahzada had a Nikon camera, eager to capture the view of the seafloor through Titan’s single porthole.

“He was like a vibrating toddler,” said Christine, who stayed on the support ship at the surface with the couple’s daughter, Alina.

The two watched closely. The sun was shining. The ship was steady.
“It was a good morning,” Christine Dawood said.

Later that morning, Ms. Dawood overheard someone saying that communication with Titan had been lost. The United States Coast Guard confirmed that it had happened 1 hour 45 minutes into the dive.

Ms. Dawood went to the bridge, where a team had been monitoring Titan’s slow descent. She was assured that the only communication between the capsule and the ship, through coded computer text messages, was often spotty. If the break lasted more than an hour, the dive would be aborted. Titan would drop weights and come back to the surface.

For hours, Ms. Dawood slowly drowned in dread. By late afternoon, she said, someone told her that they did not know where Titan and its crew were.

“I was also looking out on the ocean, in case I could maybe see them surfacing,” she said.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/02/us/titan-submersible-passengers.html[/URL

Omg, she & her daughter were THERE and saw them up until they descended.

JMO & sadness

 

[MsMarple]

The New York Post has been publishing a series of articles on the Titan implosion. Remember that letter to the court describing the Titan dive? @imstilla.grandma (I think) posted it a couple threads ago:

The Titanic foundation spearheaded by sub victim Paul-Henri Nargeolet is probing OceanGate head Stockton Rush’s claims of how safe his vessel was ahead of the fateful dive when it imploded on June 18, The Post has learned.
…
The Titanic foundation is reviewing its records and court filings in the wake of the tragedy and questioning the truthfulness of Rush’s statements, Sanders said.

“We have now our own internal questions about the representations [OceanGate] made that we made the basis on giving PH the OK to go,” she told The Post.
…
The court also reviews other plans for those wishing to visit the wreck and Eastern District of Virginia Judge Rebecca Beach Smith has been reviewing their expedition plans for multiple years, according to Washingtonian.com.
…
Sanders said Nargeolet joined the expedition not for research purposes, but strictly as a “guest of OceanGate,” in line with their reporting requirements to a federal judge, Sanders said.

RMS Titanic Inc. probing if ‘cavalier’ Stockton Rush misled them to get PH Nargeolet aboard doomed sub

The Titanic foundation is now reviewing past records in the wake of the tragedy and questioning the truthfulness and veracity of Rush’s statements, Sanders said.

nypost.com

The Post has a few other interesting articles.

Titan sub implosion heightens concerns of damage to Titanic from tourist expeditions

The US authority on Titanic artifacts says tourist trips to the wreck site risk seriously damaging the already weakened and decaying wreck.

nypost.com

Virgin Galactic CEO slams space travel and Titan sub comparison

Michael Colglazier also noted commercial space travel is tightly regulated by the federal government.

nypost.com

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

For that much money, a more safe and secure submersible should have been able to be constructed ?

You'd think...

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Dawood said OceanGate waived a rule to let her 17-year-old daughter on the Titan's mothership.

OceanGate told the woman whose husband and son were on the Titan that comms were often patchy, report says

Christine Dawood told The New York Times that OceanGate waived a rule to let her 17-year-old daughter on the Polar Prince ship carrying the Titan sub.

www.insider.com

David Lochridge was the company's former director of marine operations and chief submersible pilot before being fired after raising concerns about OceanGate's testing protocol.

Rob McCallum, a deep sea exploration specialist, emailed Lochridge in 2018 to ask how OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush was taking his departure.

"Stockton must be gutted," McCallum told Lochridge. "You were the star player and the only one that gave me a hint of confidence."

"I think you are going to [be] even more taken aback when I tell you what's happening,"

Lochridge replied said he would be "taken aback when I tell you what's happening," adding that he would share his assessment of the Titan sub in private but was afraid of retaliation from Rush because of his "influence and money."

"That sub is Not safe to dive," Lochridge said.

"Do you think the sub could be made safe to dive, or is it a complete lemon?" McCallum responded. "You will get a lot of support from people in the industry. Everyone is watching and waiting and quietly *advertiser censored* their pants."

Lochridge responded: "It's a lemon."

A former OceanGate submersible pilot said the company's Titan vessel was a 'lemon' and not safe to dive, report says

David Lochridge, the company's chief submersible pilot, was fired after raising concerns about OceanGate's testing protocol, said The New Yorker.

www.insider.com

 

[ArianeEmory]

The Titanic foundation is reviewing its records and court filings in the wake of the tragedy and questioning the truthfulness of Rush’s statements, Sanders said.

“We have now our own internal questions about the representations [OceanGate] made that we made the basis on giving PH the OK to go,” she told The Post.

Scrambling to distance themselves and/or preserve Nargeolet’s reputation.

And yet …

French diver who died in the submersible helped a private company excavate 5,000 artifacts from the Titanic

Paul-Henri Nargeolet spent two decades working with a controversial company with the sole right to retrieve items from the Titanic wreck site.

www.insider.com

 

[ilovewings]

I was just coming here to say the same. Rush absolutely knew the risk he was putting people at and he didn't care, IMO he used them for money, he groomed them and ultimately killed them all for his own delusional fantasy power trip.

I think the article makes it clear, he was using the wealthy to fund his endeavours because there's literally no way any credible organisation or academic institution would go near him. That was parasitic.

I don't suppose he was trying to start up submarine tourism so much as he was grandiose and wanted to go down in history for pushing the bounds of deep sea exploration.

Seems like PHN quite literally no longer cared about his own life and had Rush not had PH on side making his shady operation look legitimate, those people would still be alive. But why did neither Rush nor PH not care about others' lives? Outrageous.

And what about all the people working for the company? Who is the woman in the video who bolts them inside this deathly capsule? It's been like a death cult, it's only fortuitous more people couldn't fit in the capsule or they'd be gone too.

JMO MOO

Stockton Rush said he wanted to be remembered as an innovator---
Sorry Mr Rush that will not be your legacy--
Instead you will be remembered as a hard-headed egotistical greedy
Jerk who sacrificed your own life, and worse, other lives
Because you refused to make safety a priority. You valued money
And so called innovation--above the most important element-
SAFETY!!!! There is no forgiveness for what you have done!

 

[Sundog]

Scrambling to distance themselves and/or preserve Nargeolet’s reputation.

And yet …

French diver who died in the submersible helped a private company excavate 5,000 artifacts from the Titanic

Paul-Henri Nargeolet spent two decades working with a controversial company with the sole right to retrieve items from the Titanic wreck site.

www.insider.com

The Titanic Foundation just lost their founder and dear friend, who Foundation President Jessica Sanders described as "a giant of a man." It is an incredible loss and their own investigation may be helpful in shedding light on the situation, as many of us have questions about how Paul-Henri Nargeolet would agree to go on this submersible if he had any idea of how unsafe it was. I hope they will share their findings with the public at some point.

I look foward to one day visiting the Florida museum to see the Titanic artifacts that he helped to recover and preserve for the world to see, and while there pay my respects to those who lost their lives on the Titanic, and also to PH, this giant of a man.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

As the company with the US salvage rights to bring artifacts from the deep sea wreck to the surface, RMST is also the authority on conservation of the wreck site.

Submersible pilots must have the necessary expertise, and must also follow strict guidelines when navigating the 2.5 square-mile Titanic wreck site, Sanders noted.

“It’s kind of like going to a museum, you know,” she explained. “You can’t let your kids run free.”

But she rejected the idea that expeditions would never resume.

The first full-sized digital scan of the Titanic, which lies 3,800m (12,500ft) down in the Atlantic, created using deep-sea mapping.Atlantic Productions/Magellan

Scan of the Titanic wreckage, created using deep-sea mapping.Atlantic Productions/Magellan

Asked if last week’s tragic events caused her feelings surrounding commercial expeditions to change, Sanders admitted it had, but said Nargeolet — somewhat ironically — believed the wreck site “shouldn’t be just for a handful of people who can afford to get there.”

“Everybody should be able to see the artifacts, and it shouldn’t be just a millionaire, a billionaire or the military or a filmmaker that can go down to the wreck site,” she recalled of Nargeolet’s beliefs.

“It’s difficult because this one ended in a tragedy. But do I think the response is you should never be able to go? Then that contradicts a person that I deeply respected.”

Titan sub implosion heightens concerns of damage to Titanic from tourist expeditions

The US authority on Titanic artifacts says tourist trips to the wreck site risk seriously damaging the already weakened and decaying wreck.

nypost.com

 

[MsMarple]

As the company with the US salvage rights to bring artifacts from the deep sea wreck to the surface, RMST is also the authority on conservation of the wreck site.

Submersible pilots must have the necessary expertise, and must also follow strict guidelines when navigating the 2.5 square-mile Titanic wreck site, Sanders noted.

“It’s kind of like going to a museum, you know,” she explained. “You can’t let your kids run free.”

But she rejected the idea that expeditions would never resume.

The first full-sized digital scan of the Titanic, which lies 3,800m (12,500ft) down in the Atlantic, created using deep-sea mapping.Atlantic Productions/Magellan

Scan of the Titanic wreckage, created using deep-sea mapping.Atlantic Productions/Magellan

Asked if last week’s tragic events caused her feelings surrounding commercial expeditions to change, Sanders admitted it had, but said Nargeolet — somewhat ironically — believed the wreck site “shouldn’t be just for a handful of people who can afford to get there.”

“Everybody should be able to see the artifacts, and it shouldn’t be just a millionaire, a billionaire or the military or a filmmaker that can go down to the wreck site,” she recalled of Nargeolet’s beliefs.

“It’s difficult because this one ended in a tragedy. But do I think the response is you should never be able to go? Then that contradicts a person that I deeply respected.”

Titan sub implosion heightens concerns of damage to Titanic from tourist expeditions

The US authority on Titanic artifacts says tourist trips to the wreck site risk seriously damaging the already weakened and decaying wreck.

nypost.com

From your link:

Several groups, including famed international organization The Explorers Club and deep-sea mapping firm Magellan have said they do not have any expeditions to the Titanic wreckage planned for the remainder of the year.

“I think the world is done with that for this year and would, would highly criticize anybody trying to go,” Sanders added.
=====
It seems like a moratorium would be placed on all dives until the investigation is concluded. I guess not.

In the meantime Titanic continues to deteriorate so visiting it may be a moot point not too far into the future.

 

[Charlot123]

$15.74

Effective January 1, 2023, Washington State established $15.74 as the new minimum wage, up from $14.19 in 2022. The new wage regulations position Washington as the state with the highest minimum wage in the United States.Mar 2, 2023

11.50 in 2018. I am thinking about the time they were making the sub.

History of Washington State's Minimum Wage

lni.wa.gov