Titanic tourist sub goes missing in Atlantic Ocean, June 2023 #4

[iamshadow21]

Fantastic New Yorker article.

The Titan Submersible Was “An Accident Waiting to Happen”

Interviews and e-mails with expedition leaders and employees reveal how OceanGate ignored desperate warnings from inside and outside the company. “It’s a lemon,” one wrote.

www.newyorker.com

^^^^^^^^^^EVERYONE needs to read this RIGHT NOW. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I'm only halfway through, and so far, just about everything we feared or predicted is true but it still manages to be deeply shocking that it got to this point.

MOO

 

[ArianeEmory]

^^^^^^^^^^EVERYONE needs to read this RIGHT NOW. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I'm only halfway through, and so far, just about everything we feared or predicted is true but it still manages to be deeply shocking that it got to this point.

MOO

I am right there with you. (Halfway.) Every new paragraph is another horrifying bombshell. It’s even worse than many people guessed or knew.

 

[ifindedout]

It does exist and it isn't exactly a secret. The navy has had a sub detection system since the 1950s. The system was revealed after the Cold War, although of course its current capabilities are still highly classified.

SOSUS - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

BBM
I'm sure that Russia and China (and other nations such as NK and Iran) know we currently have such a system, but they may not know the specifics of the current iteration of it.

 

[musicaljoke]

The Sound Surveillance System (SOSUS)

I know that there is a sonic surveillance system, but to call it a secret and even "super secret", and then publicly betray that secret by revealing for all the world, the findings of that secret system looks like nonsense to me.

If it's so secret, why not just say nothing? If it's not a secret system, then why the pretence?

jmo

 

[iamshadow21]

I am right there with you. (Halfway.) Every new paragraph is another horrifying bombshell. It’s even worse than many people guessed or knew.

I honestly can't say anything I'm thinking and stay within TOS, except that I am now hurting about a million times more for the four victims and their families. Their deaths were so avoidable.

MOO

 

[ArianeEmory]

I honestly can't say anything I'm thinking and stay within TOS, except that I am now hurting about a million times more for the four victims and their families. Their deaths were so avoidable.

MOO

Right now (among many other things), I’m pondering the fact that Rush essentially attempted to destroy one whistleblower’s (Lochridge) life and career and get him deported from the US if he didn’t withdraw his reports to OSHA and other organizations. That and his careful structuring of the company and the language used to avoid all laws and regulations everywhere.

I’ve seen the question asked, “if people knew, why didn’t they say anything?”. They did. They tried going through various official channels, they tried reasoning with Rush, they quit or were fired, or in extreme cases Rush used his money and influence to silence them. This hasn’t been a bunch of people Monday-morning quarterbacking the situation. They knew exactly what was going on, exactly what was going to happen, and had no mechanism by which to stop it. When they had the ability to warn certain people not to get on that sub (without getting themselves sued), they did.

 

[BUF]

There is so much in this article and well worth a read. Here is just one small section…

He claimed at various points to have design and testing partnerships with Boeing and nasa, and that at least one iteration of the hull would be built at the Marshall Space Flight Center, in Huntsville, Alabama. But none of those things were true. Meanwhile, soon after Lochridge’s departure, a college newspaper quoted a recent graduate as saying that he and his classmates had started working on the Titan’s electrical systems as interns, while they were still in school. “The whole electrical system,” he said. “That was our design, we implemented it, and it works.”
…..
From a dive Griffith piloted and they were stuck in the debris field…

“Oh, my God,” Griffith muttered. One of the thrusters had been installed in the wrong direction. “The only thing I can do is a three-sixty,” he said.

Rush couldn’t remember where the buttons were, and it seems as though there was no spare controller on the ship. Someone loaded an image of a PlayStation 3 controller from the Internet, and Rush worked out a new button routine. “Yeah—left and right might be forward and back. Huh. I don’t know,” he said. “It might work.”

“Right is forward,” Griffith read off his screen, two and a half miles below. “Uh—I’m going to have to write this down.”

“Right is forward,” Rush said. “Great! Live with it.”

The Titan Submersible Was “An Accident Waiting to Happen”

Interviews and e-mails with expedition leaders and employees reveal how OceanGate ignored desperate warnings from inside and outside the company. “It’s a lemon,” one wrote.

www.newyorker.com

 

[iamshadow21]

There is so much in this article and we’ll worth a read. Here is just one small section…

He claimed at various points to have design and testing partnerships with Boeing and nasa, and that at least one iteration of the hull would be built at the Marshall Space Flight Center, in Huntsville, Alabama. But none of those things were true. Meanwhile, soon after Lochridge’s departure, a college newspaper quoted a recent graduate as saying that he and his classmates had started working on the Titan’s electrical systems as interns, while they were still in school. “The whole electrical system,” he said. “That was our design, we implemented it, and it works.”
…..
From a dive Griffith piloted and they were stuck in the debris field…

“Oh, my God,” Griffith muttered. One of the thrusters had been installed in the wrong direction. “The only thing I can do is a three-sixty,” he said.

Rush couldn’t remember where the buttons were, and it seems as though there was no spare controller on the ship. Someone loaded an image of a PlayStation 3 controller from the Internet, and Rush worked out a new button routine. “Yeah—left and right might be forward and back. Huh. I don’t know,” he said. “It might work.”

“Right is forward,” Griffith read off his screen, two and a half miles below. “Uh—I’m going to have to write this down.”

“Right is forward,” Rush said. “Great! Live with it.”

The Titan Submersible Was “An Accident Waiting to Happen”

Interviews and e-mails with expedition leaders and employees reveal how OceanGate ignored desperate warnings from inside and outside the company. “It’s a lemon,” one wrote.

www.newyorker.com

I was just trying to compose a comment on this section but couldn't find the words for how much it horrified me.

MOO

 

[fred&edna]

^^^^^^^^^^EVERYONE needs to read this RIGHT NOW. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I'm only halfway through, and so far, just about everything we feared or predicted is true but it still manages to be deeply shocking that it got to this point.

MOO

"If you’re not breaking things, you’re not innovating,” Rush said, at the GeekWire Summit last fall. “If you’re operating within a known environment, as most submersible manufacturers do—they don’t break things. To me, the more stuff you’ve broken, the more innovative you’ve been.”

(SR quote from the link)

Sadly, sooo many lives have been broken because of this disaster. (The onboard victims and all their loved ones )

 

[Arkay]

"If you’re not breaking things, you’re not innovating,” Rush said, at the GeekWire Summit last fall. “If you’re operating within a known environment, as most submersible manufacturers do—they don’t break things. To me, the more stuff you’ve broken, the more innovative you’ve been.”

(SR quote from the link)

Sadly, sooo many lives have been broken because of this disaster. (The onboard victims and all their loved ones )

Yep.

Rush broke people.


It’s true, of course, that throughout the Age of Exploration, circumnavigation of the earth, throughout people slogging through the North and South Poles, all of that—-yes, many died.

IMO though, there was purpose behind it, not just thrill. Those explorers gained knowledge of the world that enriched all mankind.


Whereas this journey was to see something already seen, the Titanic wreck, and was more of a jaunt for wealthy risk-takers.


If Rush were truly attempting to find a new and better way to explore the feasibility of a different kind of submersible, he would have been first in line to have his invention certified, classed, subject to regulation and the rules of physics.

JMO


ETA: I haven’t read the New Yorker article yet. I’m certain that when I do, I will be infuriated all the more.

 

[ArianeEmory]

ETA: I haven’t read the New Yorker article yet. I’m certain that when I do, I will be infuriated all the more.

You’re going to want a strong drink, or some chocolate, or your favorite meditation podcast or whatever. Whatever you rely on to keep your rage levels in check.

(If this topic didn’t necessarily “belong” on a crime forum before, it certainly does now.)

 

[iamshadow21]

ETA: I haven’t read the New Yorker article yet. I’m certain that when I do, I will be infuriated all the more.

RSBM

Have some antacids handy. Or a stiff drink. Schedule a moment to go outside and scream.

(I really wanted to do that last one, but it's 3:30am and I'll scare my neighbours.)

It's so much worse than we thought. And I didn't honestly know that was possible; my brain goes some pretty dark places.

MOO

 

[iamshadow21]

You’re going to want a strong drink, or some chocolate, or your favorite meditation podcast or whatever. Whatever you rely on to keep your rage levels in check.

(If this topic didn’t necessarily “belong” on a crime forum before, it certainly does now.)

Jinx! We are brain twins, apparently.

 

[Arkay]

You’re going to want a strong drink, or some chocolate, or your favorite meditation podcast or whatever. Whatever you rely on to keep your rage levels in check.

(If this topic didn’t necessarily “belong” on a crime forum before, it certainly does now.)

RSBM

Have some antacids handy. Or a stiff drink. Schedule a moment to go outside and scream.

(I really wanted to do that last one, but it's 3:30am and I'll scare my neighbours.)

It's so much worse than we thought. And I didn't honestly know that was possible; my brain goes some pretty dark places.

MOO

I just read it.

I don’t drink but I chain-smoked a pack of cigarettes.

Words fail me.

 

[iamshadow21]

I just read it.

I don’t drink but I chain-smoked a pack of cigarettes.

Words fail me.

Yeah.

 

[MsMarple]

Fantastic New Yorker article.

The Titan Submersible Was “An Accident Waiting to Happen”

Interviews and e-mails with expedition leaders and employees reveal how OceanGate ignored desperate warnings from inside and outside the company. “It’s a lemon,” one wrote.

www.newyorker.com

A definite must read. I don’t understand why PH Nargeolet stepped into that death trap as he was acutely aware that it was only a matter of time before Titan imploded.

Ugh, the explanation of how Rush exploited safety laws by simply renaming the passengers:

Although it is illegal to transport passengers in an unclassed, experimental submersible, “under U.S. regulations, you can kill crew,” McCallum told me. “You do get in a little bit of trouble, in the eyes of the law. But, if you kill a passenger, you’re in big trouble. And so everyone was classified as a ‘mission specialist.’ There were no passengers—the word ‘passenger’ was never used.” No one bought tickets; they contributed an amount of money set by Rush to one of OceanGate’s entities, to fund their own missions.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

While the company has not officially addressed any future expeditions, its website has two eight-day voyages listed for June 12, 2024, and June 21, 2024, at a cost of $250,00.

The trips are scheduled to depart from St. John’s, Newfoundland where "the expedition leader will go over important safety information and dive day logistics, and our science team and content experts will help you prepare for what you may discover on your dive."

Along with training and a submersible dive, OceanGate also promises its passengers meals and expedition gear, per the expedition's description.

OceanGate Still Advertising 'Titanic'-Bound Trips Days After 'Titan' Implosion

OceanGate continues to advertise 'Titanic' expeditions days after five passengers onboard the 'Titan' submersible died during its latest voyage to the historic underwater site on June 18.

people.com

 

[ArianeEmory]

A definite must read. I don’t understand why PH Nargeolet stepped into that death trap as he was acutely aware that it was only a matter of time before Titan imploded.

From the very end of the article, when one of the interview subjects (Lahey) said he’d talked to Nargeolet about the insane risk just a few months ago:

“Nargeolet replied that he was getting old. He was a grieving widower, and, as he told people several times in recent years, “if you have to go, that would be a good way. Instant.”

 

[10ofRods]

^^^^^^^^^^EVERYONE needs to read this RIGHT NOW. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I'm only halfway through, and so far, just about everything we feared or predicted is true but it still manages to be deeply shocking that it got to this point.

MOO

And I'm shocked by how easy it was for journalists to find all this information. And so many warnings were given.

I'm now seeing this as yet another "wilderness misadventure" by foolhardy tourists who, in this case, were misled by a supposed expert (and that last part is rare, actually). Most guided adventures into the wild involve way better expertise than this one. But Rush obviously believed in his own view of physics, oceans, and submersibles.

Every year, someone will die in a national park by slipping off ice or snow and either (solo hiking) breaking a bone and being stranded in cold temperatures (despite multiple warnings) or going to the bottom of Grand Canyon without heat preparation and water, etc. Adventure tourism has risks. I think all parties knew that there was high risk and found it very stimulating. I too like adventurous things, but for me that's just a bit of white water rafting or backpacking in steep terrain (Grand Canyon). Some people continue to ante up their risk over a lifetime.

I feel as if the high price tag made people think it had to be "safe" and "well organized." LIke those $100,000 trekking tours to Everest. Even the $50,000 tours to Everest Base Camp have had casualties (but of course, it's not the entire party as in this case).

I do wonder if Rush, deep inside, preferred to continue the risk as opposed to facing the realities of his design problems. Freud would have mentioned that there is something called a "death wish."

IMO.

 

[ch_13]

I know that there is a sonic surveillance system, but to call it a secret and even "super secret", and then publicly betray that secret by revealing for all the world, the findings of that secret system looks like nonsense to me.

If it's so secret, why not just say nothing? If it's not a secret system, then why the pretence?

jmo

Who called it 'super secret'? Was that a description directly from the Navy, or was it just some journalistic embellishment?

Of course its existence isn't really a secret. It was even a plot point in The Hunt for Red October, and Tom Clancy wrote that forty years ago when the whole system was still officially classified.

What is secret is the system's capabilities: how far away can it detect a sub, how sensitive it is, etc. So, the important question is, "Did the announcement reveal any capabilities that weren't already widely known?" I suspect the answer is no. The Titan went down in the waters just off the Newfoundland coast, and I doubt that anyone in the know was surprised that the Navy could pick up sounds that close to the North American continental shelf. In fact, as soon as the Titan went missing the military-heads on Twitter and elsewhere were all openly speculating about what the Navy had detected.