Titanic tourist sub goes missing in Atlantic Ocean, June 2023 #4

[fred&edna]

TBH, this discovery is far more exciting to me, and I've talked before about my past obsessive interest in and deep knowledge of the Titanic. Sounds like they found something that changed the understanding of what was known to be possible to live and exist in the ocean at that depth, and that's remarkable.

MOO

And, it's such a recent discovery... only last year. Professor Murray Roberts (mentioned in my last post) is the coordinator for changing oceans/iatlantic involved in a 4-year study (that may or may not have involved more research near the Titanic in 2024 (maybe with OG?)... I haven't read enough to know or maybe they hadn't planned that far in advance. Or maybe it's all been scrapped now? Interesting stuff, nonetheless.

Expeditions

www.iatlantic.eu

Research

The Changing Oceans group is involved in a variety of different research projects, from blue skies research, to very applied research partnered with industry or policymakers. The broad theme of our…

changingoceans.com

 

[fred&edna]

Surprised they could not get a university sponsor (or a national government sponsor) if the scientific research at the Titanic wreck site is valuable. Instead, they charge "crew members" sans any kind of marine biology degree $250,000 a seat.

Something just seems "fishy". I still think the main focus was adventure hobby for the wealthy. There is, of course, nothing wrong with that.

It's possible (that despite the 2022 discovery) there were no sponsors willing to pay for safety certification? And/or maybe SR didn't want to wait for safety certification (which likely could have involved time and even more money for costly upgrades/materials). It sounds like (imo) everyone made choices... so sad they were fatal choices.

 

[fred&edna]

I didn't realize until last night, there are pieces of the Titanic (like wood shards) for sale on ebay - along with the typical Titanic replicas, 1912 news reports, etc.

 

[MsMarple]

I believe the sub used on the Back to the Titanic dives was the Triton 36000/2:

Triton 36000/2 - Full Ocean Depth | Triton Submarines

The world's only submersible certified to repeatedly dive to the deepest part of the ocean, in the Mariana Trench, at 11,000 meters.

tritonsubs.com

It's in a completely different league to the Titan. It's rated to 11,000m (36,000ft) and has been pressure tested to 14,000m (46,000ft). To put that into perspective, Titanic is only 3,800m (12,500ft) down. Triton can go all the way down to the bottom of the Challenger Deep.

Even if Titan had been built properly to withstand the pressure at 4,000m, it wouldn't have been directly comparable to the Triton. Triton is the absolute best-of-the-best.

I hear you. Both the support ship, Pressure Drop, and the submersible, Limiting Factor, were significantly more high tech and probably cost way more.

OceanGate received 447k from a PPP loan to cover salaries and about 18.1 million from two investors plus additional funding totaling 37 million. I don’t know how much it cost to build either submersible but my guess is a heckuva lot.

In the show I’m watching they noted that during a 2005 dive Titanic was in good shape but had significantly deteriorated by the 2019 dive. The microbiologist described bacteria at work which she called “rustickles.”

So while I still feel Rush should have conducted proper testing I’m starting to understand his urgency of getting his submersible up and running before Titanic disappears into the ocean floor.

OceanGate received $450K in pandemic PPP loans to cover payroll costs

The company that operated the Titan submersible received $447,000 in government loans throughout the pandemic, according to federal loan tracker ProPublica.

nypost.com

First dive to Titanic in 14 years, lead by EYOS Expeditions, reveals salt corrosion and metal-eating bacteria - Oceanographic

EYOS Expeditions, the team behind the iconic Five Deeps expedition series, has carried out the first dive to the wreck of the Titanic in 14 years.

oceanographicmagazine.com

 

[musicaljoke]

Good grief, he answered his own question:

The listening system is (was) super secret and the military did not want to drop hints about its existence or capabilities.

So, yes.... they allowed the Coast Guard search to continue despite knowing that it was very likely futile.

I think that super secret military listening system is a whole lot of hooey.

 

[ifindedout]

USCG commences Marine Board of Investigation:

U.S. Coast Guard convenes a Marine Board of Investigation into loss of Titan Submersible

WASHINGTON – The Coast Guard convened a Marine Board of Investigation (MBI) into the loss of the Titan submersible and the five people on board. The crew of the Polar Prince research vessel lost

www.news.uscg.mil

WASHINGTON – The Coast Guard convened a Marine Board of Investigation (MBI) into the loss of the Titan submersible and the five people on board. The crew of the Polar Prince research vessel lost contact with the Titan submersible 1 hour and 45 minutes into its dive on Sunday, June 18, 2023. After an extensive search and rescue effort, wreckage of the Titan submersible was located on the ocean floor approximately 500 meters off the bow of the Titanic.


An MBI is the highest level of investigation in the Coast Guard. Upon completion of the investigation, the Board will issue a report to the Commandant with the evidence collected, the facts established, its conclusions, and recommendations.

During the course of the MBI, the Board will work to determine:

• The cause of the casualty, including the cause of any death.
• Whether an act of misconduct, incompetence, negligence, unskillfulness, or willful violation of law committed by any individual licensed, certificated, or documented has contributed to the cause of the casualty, or to a death involved in the casualty, so that appropriate remedial action may be taken.
• Whether an act of misconduct, incompetence, negligence, unskillfulness, or willful violation of law committed by any person, including an officer, employee, or member of the Coast Guard, contributed to the cause of the casualty, or to a death involved in the casualty.
• Whether there is evidence that an act subjecting the offender to a civil penalty under that laws of the United States has been committed, so that appropriate action may be undertaken to collect a penalty.
• Whether there is evidence that a criminal act under the laws of the United States has been committed, so that the matter may be referred to appropriate authorities for prosecution.
• Whether there is need for new laws or regulations, or amendment or repeal of existing laws or regulations, to prevent the recurrence of the casualty.

The Coast Guard MBI is working in close coordination with other national and international authorities including the United States National Transportation Safety Board, Canadian Transportation Safety Board, French Marine Casualties Investigation Board, and United Kingdom Marine Accident Investigation Branch.

 

[ch_13]

I think that super secret military listening system is a whole lot of hooey.

It does exist and it isn't exactly a secret. The navy has had a sub detection system since the 1950s. The system was revealed after the Cold War, although of course its current capabilities are still highly classified.

SOSUS - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[MsMarple]

I didn't realize until last night, there are pieces of the Titanic (like wood shards) for sale on ebay - along with the typical Titanic replicas, 1912 news reports, etc.

How the heck did people get hold of wood shards? From what? I call fake.

Lol, I have an old book about the sinking, dated April 18, 1912, four days later! Kind of like the 20th century Daily Mail.

There have been multiple claims of ownership of Titanic salvage over the years including insurance companies.

My understanding is that the only remaining controversy is over the Marconi wireless.

LEGAL ISSUES ARE RAISED BY TITANIC (Published 1985)

www.nytimes.com

Titanic: plan scrapped to retrieve radio that sent distress calls as ship sank

Pandemic and ongoing legal battles led to cancelled expedition for Marconi wireless telegraph machine that helped save 700 people

amp.theguardian.com

 

[fred&edna]

How the heck did people get hold of wood shards? From what? I call fake.

Lol, I have an old book about the sinking, dated April 18, 1912, four days later! Kind of like the 20th century Daily Mail.

There have been multiple claims of ownership of Titanic salvage over the years including insurance companies.

My understanding is that the only remaining controversy is over the Marconi wireless.

LEGAL ISSUES ARE RAISED BY TITANIC (Published 1985)

www.nytimes.com

Titanic: plan scrapped to retrieve radio that sent distress calls as ship sank

Pandemic and ongoing legal battles led to cancelled expedition for Marconi wireless telegraph machine that helped save 700 people

amp.theguardian.com

Fake was my first thought, also. From the photos, there appears to be an accompanying RMS Titanic "certificate of authenticity". This may have been something sold to the general public during "RMS Titanic" traveling exhibition tours. I really have no idea.

Here's a link to one (there are others listed too)

Authentic RMS Titanic Wreck Wood Relic & 1912 Liberty Nickel, Artifact w/COA | eBay

Explore Authentic RMS Titanic Wreck Wood Relic & 1912 Liberty Nickel, Artifact w/COA. Own a piece of history! Limited availability.

www.ebay.com

 

[MsMarple]

Fake was my first thought, also. From the photos, there appears to be an accompanying RMS Titanic "certificate of authenticity". This may have been something sold to the general public during "RMS Titanic" traveling exhibition tours. I really have no idea.

Here's a link to one (there are others listed too)

Authentic RMS Titanic Wreck Wood Relic & 1912 Liberty Nickel, Artifact w/COA | eBay

Explore Authentic RMS Titanic Wreck Wood Relic & 1912 Liberty Nickel, Artifact w/COA. Own a piece of history! Limited availability.

www.ebay.com

It’s selling for $97.00. Yeah, no.

 

[fred&edna]

It’s selling for $97.00. Yeah, no.

'Next thing we know there will be a listing for a splinter from Elvis' big toe... complete with gold frame

(Sorry, I couldn't stop myself from adding some bad humor to this very sad thread)

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

Fake was my first thought, also. From the photos, there appears to be an accompanying RMS Titanic "certificate of authenticity". This may have been something sold to the general public during "RMS Titanic" traveling exhibition tours. I really have no idea.

Here's a link to one (there are others listed too)

Authentic RMS Titanic Wreck Wood Relic & 1912 Liberty Nickel, Artifact w/COA | eBay

Explore Authentic RMS Titanic Wreck Wood Relic & 1912 Liberty Nickel, Artifact w/COA. Own a piece of history! Limited availability.

www.ebay.com

In the description of the item you linked to it says the wood was collected in 1912, floating on the surface, by one of the ships that collected bodies in the days after the sinking.

Items such as pieces of wood, lifejackets, deckchairs etc. were collected from the surface, so it's not completely impossible this piece of wood is real... but I don't see how it can ever be proven.

At least they're not claiming it was ever on the ocean floor.

 

[fred&edna]

I didn't know about this either

The piece was made by Samuel Smith who was on board the S.S. Minia that took part in the body-recovery mission in April 1912.
It has remained in his family ever since.
The cross is being sold along with other Titanic items at Henry Aldridge and Son auction house in Wiltshire and is expected to fetch £18,000.

Wooden cross made from Titanic oak to be auctioned

The piece was made by Samuel Smith who took part in the body-recovery mission in April 1912.

www.bbc.com

 

[BeachSky]

Here is an interesting article from the BBC.

It matches the recovered part with its placement on the Titan.

What Titan sub wreckage can tell us about the tragedy

JMVHO.

I agree . This is so helpful imo .
Thx!

 

[Arkay]

TBH, this discovery is far more exciting to me, and I've talked before about my past obsessive interest in and deep knowledge of the Titanic. Sounds like they found something that changed the understanding of what was known to be possible to live and exist in the ocean at that depth, and that's remarkable.

MOO

I know Halifax, Nova Scotia is a long, long way from Australia, but I’ve posted somewhere earlier that the Maritime Museum there has a striking collection of Titanic artifacts which drifted there after it shipwrecked.

No treasure hunting, no profiteering, no grave desecration. Just what the ocean brought to them. There are deck chairs, furniture, baby shoes and many more items.

We had a lovely tour guide through the museum, (not a docent, I don’t think). She explained how these items came to Halifax and how tenderly everything was treated.

I am certainly aware that it’s an exhausting trip from where you are! Obviously though it’s a doable trip compared to diving down to the wreck. I hope you get to go, if that’s something that interests you.

Maybe there’s some Commonwealth-to-Commonwealth special deal????????

 

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[iamshadow21]

I know Halifax, Nova Scotia is a long, long way from Australia, but I’ve posted somewhere earlier that the Maritime Museum there has a striking collection of Titanic artifacts which drifted there after it shipwrecked.

No treasure hunting, no profiteering, no grave desecration. Just what the ocean brought to them. There are deck chairs, furniture, baby shoes and many more items.

We had a lovely tour guide through the museum, (not a docent, I don’t think). She explained how these items came to Halifax and how tenderly everything was treated.

I am certainly aware that it’s an exhausting trip from where you are! Obviously though it’s a doable trip compared to diving down to the wreck. I hope you get to go, if that’s something that interests you.

Maybe there’s some Commonwealth-to-Commonwealth special deal????????

It's unlikely to happen - I'm poor and scared of flying. New Zealand's the furthest I've been and it was incredibly difficult for me to grit my teeth through those flights. I can't imagine flying round half the world. Sounds like an amazing museum, though. I'm glad you had a great experience there.

 

[Elley Mae]

I think that super secret military listening system is a whole lot of hooey.

The Sound Surveillance System (SOSUS)

 

[imstilla.grandma]

The director’s theory might sound bizarre at first, but Cameron believes that if the TItanic’s captain had made the decision to evacuate the travelers onto the iceberg itself, they may have survived long enough for rescue to come and save them. Speaking to a panel of experts for National Geographic (via YouTube), Cameron claimed: “My first favorite idea is to put everybody on the iceberg.” He goes on to argue that since the iceberg is the only thing that’s guaranteed not to sink, it’s the safest place for the residents of the ship to be awaiting help.

The director acknowledges that his theory isn’t completely safe, but he argues that it’s the most logical way to ensure those travelers aren’t forced into waters that will undoubtedly kill them overnight. He argues that access to the iceberg would be simple enough since the ship “just ran into it,” so the actual logistics of evacuating wouldn’t be too difficult. It’s obviously a flawed plan, but as all experts on the panel agree, there was no completely safe method of survival on that ship.

The Iceberg Could've Saved Lives: James Cameron Supports A Wild Titanic Theory

How would James Cameron have helped the Titanic?

screenrant.com

 

[ArianeEmory]

Fantastic New Yorker article.

The Titan Submersible Was “An Accident Waiting to Happen”

Interviews and e-mails with expedition leaders and employees reveal how OceanGate ignored desperate warnings from inside and outside the company. “It’s a lemon,” one wrote.

www.newyorker.com