Titanic tourist sub goes missing in Atlantic Ocean, June 2023 #4

[JDG]

Titan passenger says OceanGate CEO told them SLEEP when battery died

A man who was once a passenger on the Titan has claimed that CEO Stockton Rush suggested the crew sleep on the vessel while stuck at the bottom of the Atlantic.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Here‘s an article about 24 hours in Titan when batteries died, 2021.

Article just happened to be on DM as I was browsing.

The Titan was never underwater for 24 hrs, AFAIK.

This is just an article explaining Rush’s solution and how to cope if they had to stay there.

As we all know, sleeping would save oxygen (if the CO2 didn’t kill them) and could maybe prevent panic.

The whole thing was just ludicrous but 20/20 hindsight helps.

 

[alsleuther]

Here's the almost 6 minute promotional video for Ocean Gate. Wow, they make it look like such an amazing and safe experience!

Around 3 minutes, 30 seconds it talks about the duties of "Mission Specialists" not aboard the sub. Does that mean that people also signed up to just go on the boat trip, stay on the Mother ship and do duties there? I wonder how much that would cost?

And for example the Father/Son that perished on the Titan, is that what the Wife/Daughter were doing that week on the boat?

Also this video relates to 2023 and appears to have been posted only 2 months ago by OceanGate. How many successful trips to the Titanic had the Titan actually made?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Here's the almost 6 minute promotional video for Ocean Gate. Wow, they make it look like such an amazing and safe experience!

Around 3 minutes, 30 seconds it talks about the duties of "Mission Specialists" not aboard the sub. Does that mean that people also signed up to just go on the boat trip, stay on the Mother ship and do duties there? I wonder how much that would cost?

And for example the Father/Son that perished on the Titan, is that what the Wife/Daughter were doing that week on the boat?

Also this video relates to 2023 and appears to have been posted only 2 months ago by OceanGate. How many successful trips to the Titanic had the Titan actually made?

Outrageous and I hope people can see how clearly P-HN 'sold' this lethal madness to unsuspecting adventurers. 'A member of crew' was careful wording as the tourists could not be classified as such - explained by someone up thread, fancy footwork by SR.

This fatal descent was marked by OceanGate as being the fifth trip. However, whether there had actually been four previously is questionable and I haven't seen any proof of that.

 

[CrimeDawg123]

Here's the almost 6 minute promotional video for Ocean Gate. Wow, they make it look like such an amazing and safe experience!

Around 3 minutes, 30 seconds it talks about the duties of "Mission Specialists" not aboard the sub. Does that mean that people also signed up to just go on the boat trip, stay on the Mother ship and do duties there? I wonder how much that would cost?

And for example the Father/Son that perished on the Titan, is that what the Wife/Daughter were doing that week on the boat?

Also this video relates to 2023 and appears to have been posted only 2 months ago by OceanGate. How many successful trips to the Titanic had the Titan actually made?

"Excitement, thrills, and adventure on the high seas!"
...
"Come join us on our next expedition. Don't miss the opportunity to be part of history. The OceanGate Titanic Experience. There's truly nothing else like it."

 

[Charlot123]

The only person who would overtly financially benefit is the wife and mother of the two deceased. However, there is no suggestion this absolute unmitigated disaster waiting to happen was any more than a predictable tragedy and no suggestion that poor woman is anything but a grieving wife and mother.

No gain at all IMHO. Her deceased husband was one of the scions of a wealthy empire located abroad. The empire recovers, there are other heirs, and they should take care of the widow and the remaining child. I can imagine the widow partially continuing their philanthropy work in Britain. She may become the spokeswoman for victims of similar circumstances, too. IMHO, she is a strong, practical woman who by sheer will pulled herself together to counter some idle gossip, and who now has the remaining child to raise, but in her case, grief can be protracted. Specifically of her family, I think they were sure that for their money, they were buying the best and the safest trip ever.

 

[alsleuther]

The OceanGate Facebook page posted these three group photos from this year, from Missions 2, 3 and 4 to the Titanic. One of the comments said the people kneeling are the ones that actually went on the sub and the ones standing were on the Mother Ship. It looks like PH was there for all three of the missions.

 

[fred&edna]

Here's the almost 6 minute promotional video for Ocean Gate. Wow, they make it look like such an amazing and safe experience!

Around 3 minutes, 30 seconds it talks about the duties of "Mission Specialists" not aboard the sub. Does that mean that people also signed up to just go on the boat trip, stay on the Mother ship and do duties there? I wonder how much that would cost?

And for example the Father/Son that perished on the Titan, is that what the Wife/Daughter were doing that week on the boat?

Also this video relates to 2023 and appears to have been posted only 2 months ago by OceanGate. How many successful trips to the Titanic had the Titan actually made?

I don't have a link to share but I saw a twitter post from approx a year ago OG offered some marine science instructors free travel onboard the mothership only. I will try to find the link and will edit this post if successful.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

The OceanGate Facebook page posted these three group photos from this year, from Missions 2, 3 and 4 to the Titanic. One of the comments said the people kneeling are the ones that actually went on the sub and the ones standing were on the Mother Ship. It looks like PH was there for all three of the missions.

Good finds. It's confusing as Ocean Gate had more than one submersible initially. Also seems they had so many outings at sea where the dives were cancelled and then just a small 'test dive' would be conducted.

Obviously one of the pics there's too many people kneeling down so they can't have all gone. I googled the name of one of the people mentioned in the People.com article and it would appear she did join a dive and go down to the bottom, see Titanic, and return safely. Although there's something about the way the article is worded that makes one doubt.

 

[alsleuther]

Good finds. It's confusing as Ocean Gate had more than one submersible initially. Also seems they had so many outings at sea where the dives were cancelled and then just a small 'test dive' would be conducted.

Obviously one of the pics there's too many people kneeling down so they can't have all gone. I googled the name of one of the people mentioned in the People.com article and it would appear she did join a dive and go down to the bottom, see Titanic, and return safely. Although there's something about the way the article is worded that makes one doubt.

Well I thought about that, but I recall reading somewhere that each Mission had 5-8 possible dive days, depending on weather and other variables, so maybe that picture is showing that a few people went down one day and a few did another day.

 

[ArianeEmory]

Re: the trips or vessel being insured, it seems impossible.

Russell Brice, who has been managing (and, when he younger, leading) commercial expeditions to Everest for decades, said his business was uninsurable in a documentary I watched. So I don’t see how OceanGate could be. (And I don’t think he’s ever lost a client. He is also known for canceling all trips on one bad year when other expeditions kept going and suffered losses.)

If anyone has any proof/info otherwise of OceanGate’s insurance, I’d be very interested.

 

[10ofRods]

The Titan was never underwater for 24 hrs, AFAIK.

This is just an article explaining Rush’s solution and how to cope if they had to stay there.

As we all know, sleeping would save oxygen (if the CO2 didn’t kill them) and could maybe prevent panic.

The whole thing was just ludicrous but 20/20 hindsight helps.

Several people mention that this happened. It's in MSM in about 5 different articles - including the recent New Yorker article. IIRC. The actual length of time underwater is probably not 24 (I think that comes from some secondary source quoting from journalists who actually interviewed prior passengers). I am, however, open to it being true as it is reported in MSM.

One man (Pogue) says they were down, in the dark without power for 5 hours.

In another misadventure, the people in the submersible sat 25 feet from air, underwater, in the craft for "hours" (no report on how many - I would say it means more than 2 hours).

I think someone may have misread the NYer article (wherein the passengers stuck on the bottom, unable to ascend talk about waiting 24 hours for the salt to dissolve on the undercarriage - the "back-up" method of ascending). It was not on this trip, but on a prior trip (not the two just mentioned above either, this is case #3 of stuck passengers).

In this third situation, it's unclear how long they were down there, but I believe it was merely that they might have mentioned 24 hours and some news sources picked it up.

In a fourth incident, Rush was not the pilot, and the submersible's navigation system failed to function properly. I believe they were stuck for a couple of hours. To me, it sounds like a total of 4-5 hours (I think this is different from incident 1 - but can't find any compilation of incidents, so I'm trying to see if Pogue was involved in this one.

Then there was that time when an unoccupied Titan sank partially below the waves and could not be recovered for hours - when boarding was just about to take place.

I have a few more of these stories to compile, have been saving reports on prior trips. But that's 5 different trips with a stalled out Titan. Many trips were scrapped.

There's a three part series that contains much of this, and then the NYer article. Here are the links:

Mission Titanic, Part 1: Preparing to dive

Editor in chief Arnie Weissmann was on an OceanGate Expeditions mission to the Titanic in May. Things didn't go as planned. The first installment of his experiences.

www.travelweekly.com

^ there are two more parts in this

The Titan Submersible Was “An Accident Waiting to Happen”

Interviews and e-mails with expedition leaders and employees reveal how OceanGate ignored desperate warnings from inside and outside the company. “It’s a lemon,” one wrote.

www.newyorker.com

JMO

 

[crhedBngr]

Here's a CNN link to the author of the New Yorker article.

Beginning at 6:35 in the video, there's an interesting discussion about a titanium submersible that went down 11,000m with a person from the "classification agency".

JMVHO.

 

[CrimeDawg123]

Here's a CNN link to the author of the New Yorker article.

Beginning at 6:35 in the video, there's an interesting discussion about a titanium submersible that went down 11,000m with a person from the "classification agency".

JMVHO.

Ben Taub pulls no punches in this interview just like he did in the article. Fantastic piece.

 

[crhedBngr]

Ben Taub pulls no punches in this interview just like he did in the article. Fantastic piece.

It really is.

I'd like to know which titanium submersible went down 11,000m. I'll see if I can find anything.

ETA: I believe this is the one: This Titanium Submersible Will Show You The Ocean Floor In 3D

JMVHO.

 

[10ofRods]

Here's a CNN link to the author of the New Yorker article.

Beginning at 6:35 in the video, there's an interesting discussion about a titanium submersible that went down 11,000m with a person from the "classification agency".

JMVHO.

Wow. Very articulate. Doesn't mince words.

Thanks for that.

And I think I found the source from which the "we're down here for 24 hours" quote comes from - apparently Rush said it himself, but in context. He was discussing what to do about the non-working navigational system.

Here.

 

[Arkay]

The dissonance between the promotional Oceangate video and the Ben Taub interview is just so jarring.

I wonder how the people in the promo video, touting how safe the sub was, are feeling about it today. IMO they were used by Rush to sell his deadly snake oil.

It’s likely that the previous passengers did in fact enjoy their adventure, but vouching for the sub’s safety should only have been done by experts who’d engaged in true safety tests, which of course Titan would have failed.


IMO the catch is PH, because within the deep ocean community, he had a lot of credibility.

He was free to make his decision, and at his stage of life he may have been okay with whatever outcome. We may never know, or his family may someday discuss his thinking at the time.

 

[Charlot123]

.

Wow. Very articulate. Doesn't mince words.

Thanks for that.

And I think I found the source from which the "we're down here for 24 hours" quote comes from - apparently Rush said it himself, but in context. He was discussing what to do about the non-working navigational system.

Here.

Well, there probably will be many lawsuits.

I only wonder whether Lockridge, who essentially did his job well, is entitled to any compensation for the time, money and energy spent trying to protect and save people who he yet didn’t know and who’d one day be underwater?

If there is any real hero of the story, it is David Lockridge. I understand that he refuses to comment, I hope that one day, he will.

 

[Cool Cats]

​

Extremely detailed article.......Very informative.....​

‘I don’t want to be tattle tale, but I’m so worried he kills himself and others.’ Ex-OceanGate employees exchanged emails about Titan sub dangers and the CEO’s ‘quest to boost his ego’​

The Titan Submersible Was “An Accident Waiting to Happen”

Interviews and e-mails with expedition leaders and employees reveal how OceanGate ignored desperate warnings from inside and outside the company. “It’s a lemon,” one wrote.

www.newyorker.com

The Titan’s viewport was made of acrylic....Could be a factor

It seemed as if Rush believed that acrylic’s transparent quality would give him ample warning before failure. “You can see every surface,” he said. “And if you’ve overstressed it, or you’ve even come close, it starts to get this crazing effect.”

“And if that happened underwater . . .”

“You just stop and go to the surface.”

“You would have time to get back up?” Pogue asked.

“Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s way more warning than you need.”

John Ramsay, who has designed several acrylic-hulled submersibles, was less sure. “You’ll probably never be able to find out the source of failure” of the Titan, he told me, in a recent phone call from his cottage in southwest England. But it seems as though Rush did not understand how acrylic limits are calculated.....
......................

“With titanium, there’s a purpose to a pressure test that goes beyond just seeing whether it will survive,” John Ramsay, the designer of the Limiting Factor, explained. The metal gradually strengthens under repeated exposure to incredible stresses. With carbon fibre, however, pressure testing slowly breaks the hull, fibre by tiny fibre. “If you’re repeatedly nearing the threshold of the material, then there’s just no way of knowing how many cycles it will survive,” he said.

The submersible Antipodes at the OceanGate headquarters, in Everett, Washington, on July 19, 2017.

David Lochridge, OceanGate’s former director of marine operations, pilots Cyclops I during a test dive in Everett, on July 19, 2017.

Stockton Rush inside Cyclops I, on July 19, 2017.

Various models of Cyclops II are exhibited alongside a model of the Titanic, at the OceanGate headquarters, on July 19, 2017.

 

[LadyL]

Bet that franchisee is removed, they cannot inhale without permission from Head Office.

Disgusting to think people want to make money on the back of this tragedy.

View attachment 432682

oh geez
why do people have no sense of decorum

 

[Charlot123]

Why would the Polar Prince be liquidating its assets? The Polar Prince was hired by OceanGate to help wth the launch. IIRC, the Polar Prince ship is owned by a Native Canadian/First Nations company, and the ship and its crew were hired for the launch. I haven't seen any MSM that suggests that Polar Prince broke any laws by providing a ship for OceanGate's expedition/launch.
I think the Canadian investigation is interviewing the crew of both Polar Prince and OceanGate as standard procedure in an investigation of this type, imo.

edited by me

Well it really depends on the regulations. If Canadian regulations say they can take only certified sub, then, yes, they are at fault. If there are no regulations stating they have to check any specific paperwork about the safety of the sub, then, no, not their fault. It really depends on pre-existing laws. The crew of the Polar Prince are not physicists nor engineers, and may not have been aware of the sub being at risk. From what I have read, the Polar Prince was designed as an icebreaker. So the crew of the chartered ship should be aware of the problems with ice and icebergs, but perhaps not of the novelty subs.

Too often a catastrophe prompts tightening of the security, so now, of course, something should be changed.

Interesting article. Apparently, the family members of all 5 passengers of the Titan were on board of the Polar Prince.

Ship That Launched Ill-Fated Titan Submersible Returns to Newfoundland

Investigators boarded the Polar Prince, which docked at the Atlantic headquarters of the Canadian Coast Guard, looking for answers.

www.nytimes.com

I think that between the OSHA and the Coast Guard, someone might have dropped the ball. On the other hand, maybe not, since it was in international waters.