Titanic tourist sub goes missing in Atlantic Ocean, June 2023 #4

[neesaki]

I wonder if anyone has thought of the possibility that this was deliberate. Granted, there were flaws in this sub, but it has been working for years, without deaths.

Was this an accident waiting to happen? Or did someone see this situation as an opportunity to get away with the perfect crime, with all evidence of sabotage scattered in the ocean?

Maybe I have read too many books about mysteries and conspiracies.

That thought actually occurred to me as well.
ETA: I admit my imagination often works overtime.

 

[ch_13]

Titan sub disaster raises question over who insured OceanGate for voyage

Suing OceanGate for the Titan disaster could be difficult for the victims' families, but not impossible.

www.newsweek.com

I don't think anyone has yet confirmed if Ocean Gate or the Titan and its dives were insured, and if so, by who.

But the Polar Prince, the Mother Ship, was registered in Canada, so certainly that vessel was insured. I'm curious what the company is doing right now? Emptying out bank accounts and liquidating assets?

The Polar Prince was only chartered by OceanGate. It was owned by Miawpukek Horizon Marine Services. I doubt they have much culpability in this matter, but I guess it's possible that someone may try to sue them.

As for OceanGate, it's unlikely they have much in the way of assets. They'll probably just declare bankruptcy.

 

[gitana1]

I read this twice and still I am a bit confused as to what race has anything to do with this. Someone please give me some insight as I genuinely don't understand?

Titanic tour CEO didn’t hire ‘50-year-old white guys’ because they weren’t ‘inspirational’

“Anyone can drive the sub” with a $30 video game controller, Titanic tour guide and OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush once said.

nypost.com

It doesn’t, really. Based on photos of his team, it seems to be about age.

 

[gitana1]

Wow, I'm stunned. Everything I've ever heard, or that experts have ever said, suggested this shouldn't be possible. Human remains should be liquefied mush after an implosion like this; but then, maybe that is exactly what has been found.

Having said that, I don't think there has ever been an implosion at that depth with the wreckage found and recovered so quickly. Perhaps the "common knowledge" about what would happen to a human body was always wrong, and this tragedy will help us learn something new.

I thought so too. Everything would be pulverized. But maybe it’s more like what happens with an explosion? Except this was the reverse.

 

[Sundog]

Titan sub disaster raises question over who insured OceanGate for voyage

Suing OceanGate for the Titan disaster could be difficult for the victims' families, but not impossible.

www.newsweek.com

I don't think anyone has yet confirmed if Ocean Gate or the Titan and its dives were insured, and if so, by who.

But the Polar Prince, the Mother Ship, was registered in Canada, so certainly that vessel was insured. I'm curious what the company is doing right now? Emptying out bank accounts and liquidating assets?

Why would the Polar Prince be liquidating its assets? The Polar Prince was hired by OceanGate to help wth the launch. IIRC, the Polar Prince ship is owned by a Native Canadian/First Nations company, and the ship and its crew were hired for the launch. I haven't seen any MSM that suggests that Polar Prince broke any laws by providing a ship for OceanGate's expedition/launch.
I think the Canadian investigation is interviewing the crew of both Polar Prince and OceanGate as standard procedure in an investigation of this type, imo.

edited by me

 

[HMSHood]

OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush sent his submersible down to the Titanic with a thruster facing the wrong way last year and had to troubleshoot it on the fly

"Yeah — left and right might be forward and back. Huh. I don't know. It might work," Rush told the submersible's pilot, according to the BBC.

www.insider.com

The more I read about this. There was nothing but trouble with the Titan submersible. Quite frankly, the Titan submersible should of never been on water to begin with.

 

[crhedBngr]

Just sharing the information. I can't speak for the occupants and what they did or did not find "routine" however at least two were new to this whole sort of endeavor.

Yes, understood.

I read about the many times they had to abort and resurface, due to slip-shod construction of the Titan.

As with the rest of You, I'm furious with the unforgivable loss of lives.

JMVHO.

 

[Odeto BJ]

DBM wrong key

 

[alsleuther]

The Polar Prince was only chartered by OceanGate. It was owned by Miawpukek Horizon Marine Services. I doubt they have much culpability in this matter, but I guess it's possible that someone may try to sue them.

As for OceanGate, it's unlikely they have much in the way of assets. They'll probably just declare bankruptcy.

I just reread my comment. I didn't word it well. I meant that Ocean Gate (probably Stockton's wife) would be emptying out their company bank accounts right now.

Agreed, Polar Prince, was only chartered by Ocean Gate, but I'm sure Polar Prince has insurance. I was trying to say that any lawsuits, would be against the company that had some sort of actual insurance, b/c Ocean Gate will probably soon be bankrupt, and likely had no insurance.

I knew a situation where gun violence happened on a property and even though it had nothing to do with the property, the homeowner's insurance was sued. That was the only chance of any monetary recovery for the victim.

This quote insinuates that PP is very knowledgable about the Titanic exploration that Ocean Gate is performing from their ship.

2023 Titanic Expedition Embarks During Iceberg Season Aboard Famous Icebreaker - OceanGate Expeditions

OceanGate Expeditions charters former Canadian Coast Guard icebreaker. APRIL 5, 2023 – ST. JOHN’S, NEWFOUNDLAND – As we near the 111th anniversary of the sinking of the Titanic, OceanGate Expeditions confirms plans to return to the Titanic in 2023 for the third consecutive year. OceanGate...

oceangateexpeditions.com

“We are excited to have OceanGate Expeditions join us onboard our vessel, the Polar Prince (Oqwatnukewey Eleke’wi’ji’jit), this year as they continue to explore the Titanic wreck and expand upon the important scientific research, archeological and marine biodiversity work that began in 2021,” says Mi’sel Joe, Miawpukek First Nation Chief.

 

[JDG]

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwi_p9ag4PX_AhVqmokEHeGTBfYQFnoECAsQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fus-news%2F2023%2Fjul%2F04%2Ftitan-sub-implosion-details-safety-oceangate-experts&usg=AOvVaw1tbJZ67SuyYSbpsik9swLh&opi=89978449

This article explains how Rush took ALL criticisms as a ‘personal affront’, way back to the Cyclops (renamed Titan).

IMO, JMO that SRs extreme arrogance & sense of superiority over rode everything that anyone could put forth to make this endeavour successful.

Too bad that these issues were not made public before people lost their lives.

I wonder if his wife has any culpability seeing as she is/was a board member.

ETA: Mrs Rush would have known all about her husbands shortcomings.

Would her assets be at risk of lawsuits even if OceanGate is/was a limited company??

 

[Sundog]

I wonder if his wife has any culpability seeing as she is/was a board member.

ETA: Mrs Rush would have known all about her husbands shortcomings.

Would her assets be at risk of lawsuits even if OceanGate is/was a limited company??

<snipped for focus>

Good question, I hope her assets are not at risk if there is a civil lawsuit. It sounds like Stockton Rush made operational and design decisions regarding the sub on his own. Her area was communications.

Is there a list published regarding who all was on the Board?

 

[JDG]

Titan passenger says OceanGate CEO told them SLEEP when battery died

A man who was once a passenger on the Titan has claimed that CEO Stockton Rush suggested the crew sleep on the vessel while stuck at the bottom of the Atlantic.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Here‘s an article about 24 hours in Titan when batteries died, 2021.

Article just happened to be on DM as I was browsing.

 

[iamshadow21]

<snipped for focus>

Good question, I hope her assets are not at risk if there is a civil lawsuit. It sounds like Stockton Rush made operational and design decisions regarding the sub on his own. Her area was communications.

Is there a list published regarding who all was on the Board?

If she benefitted financially and was on the board, why shouldn't she be liable? She wasn't an innocent in this, there's no way she couldn't have known what the company was doing. Nobody was enslaved not even the $15/hr engineers, and especially the ones at the top were making the choice every day to market and sell tickets to this underwater game of Russian roulette.

I can feel sorry that she's been widowed but also feel strongly that she shouldn't profit from four people's deaths.

MOO

 

[ArianeEmory]

Titan passenger says OceanGate CEO told them SLEEP when battery died

A man who was once a passenger on the Titan has claimed that CEO Stockton Rush suggested the crew sleep on the vessel while stuck at the bottom of the Atlantic.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Here‘s an article about 24 hours in Titan when batteries died, 2021.

Article just happened to be on DM as I was browsing.

I really think this one is a case of very ambiguous wording.

“As Rush tried to solve the issue, he reportedly offered the passengers to go to sleep as the vessel sunk to the bottom of the ocean.

Once the vessel's weights dissolved after 24 hours, the submersible would be able to rise to the surface.

Half the crew, including Stockton, said they would be okay sleeping at the ocean's floor. However, the other clients were not willing to spend the night under the ocean.

Eventually, Rush managed to use hydraulics to drop the weight and the vessel floated back up safely with everyone on board.”

Note the use of “would be” after “24 hours”. I think it means that there was a failsafe that would happen after 24 hours. But they didn’t have to wait that long because of the last sentence (meaning, Rush got them unstuck before then).

I can see why it’s confusing and why headline writers are either making a mistake or doing it on purpose, but I don’t think the Titan was ever stuck down there for 24 hours. If it had been, I think it would have been bigger news at the time it happened.

Edit: jinx @flowershop

 

[flowershop]

Titan passenger says OceanGate CEO told them SLEEP when battery died

A man who was once a passenger on the Titan has claimed that CEO Stockton Rush suggested the crew sleep on the vessel while stuck at the bottom of the Atlantic.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Here‘s an article about 24 hours in Titan when batteries died, 2021.

Article just happened to be on DM as I was browsing.

As I understand it, SR suggested sleeping on the Titan/spending 24 hours on it. But this did not actually play out.

"As Rush tried to solve the issue, he reportedly offered the passengers to go to sleep as the vessel sunk to the bottom of the ocean.

Once the vessel's weights dissolved after 24 hours, the submersible would be able to rise to the surface.

Half the crew, including Stockton, said they would be okay sleeping at the ocean's floor. However, the other clients were not willing to spend the night under the ocean.

Eventually, Rush managed to use hydraulics to drop the weight and the vessel floated back up safely with everyone on board."

 

[alsleuther]

Corporations and Charities System

Washington Corporations and Charities Filing System

ccfs.sos.wa.gov

Hmm, this is very interesting, per the WA Secretary of State website, the business, Oceangate, Inc. was formed in 2011 and the "Governors" (Board of Directors) listed with the SOS are as following for 2023:

Stockton Rush
Mike Furlotti
Jim Snyder and
John Lockwood

If you look back to their filed 2022 annual report and other previous years, there were EIGHT total Board members, these four plus Doug Gorder, Geoffrey Barker, Diana Raedle and Lee Thompson.

Which means that very recently HALF of their Board members left the company. I wonder if there was a lot of internal turmoil, that was very evident at that level and those individuals left to not be associated with the Company any longer?!

Per SOS, Wendy Rush, the wife, was associated with the Ocean Gate Foundation, a separate business.

 

[MsMarple]

I just don’t get it; Rush must have weighed the risks and the benefits of building a carbon fiber hull so what was the tipping point that convinced him the safety margin was wide enough to ignore potential problems?

As far as I know Rush didn’t improve or modify the process of using carbon fiber in order to adapt the hull to perform better underwater, specifically to withstand the extreme pressure.

IOW the only innovation he’s credited for is using a material that previously was proven to be unsuitable for submersible hulls. He mainly relied on Spenser Composites to follow his design orders and make sure the Titan could function on deep dives.

From my non expert search I learned that the plus of using carbon fiber for the hull is that it would be much lighter than steel or titanium. However, while it performs very well under tension it doesn’t do so well under pressure. Like the pressure experienced deep in the ocean.

The other problem is that repeated exposure to pressure causes fatigue as the layers begin to separate from one another. The link below explains it better.

UB engineer discusses materials used to build Titan sub

Deborah Chung is an expert on composite materials, like those used to build the ill-fated Titan.

www.buffalo.edu

Here’s a good article on some technical details, long but worth it as it explains much of what went into the Titan’s construction.

Composite submersibles: Under pressure in deep, deep waters

Manned deepsea exploration calls for a highly engineered composites solution that saves weight and preserves life — at 6,500-psi service pressure.

www.compositesworld.com

 

[Sundog]

An 1851 maritime law protected Titanic owners in court. Could OceanGate use it too?

The owners of Titanic sought to limit liability following the ship’s sinking by petitioning under 1851 legislation. The owners of the submersible lost on its dive to visit that famed ship’s wreckage may do the same thing, legal experts tell Sheila Flynn

www.independent.co.uk

Good article on various aspects of maritime law and federal laws, various jurisdictions, etc.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Titan sub disaster raises question over who insured OceanGate for voyage

Suing OceanGate for the Titan disaster could be difficult for the victims' families, but not impossible.

www.newsweek.com

I don't think anyone has yet confirmed if Ocean Gate or the Titan and its dives were insured, and if so, by who.

But the Polar Prince, the Mother Ship, was registered in Canada, so certainly that vessel was insured. I'm curious what the company is doing right now? Emptying out bank accounts and liquidating assets?

How could anyone possibly insure the submersibles? It couldn't be done. In fact anyone who got in the submersible just negated their own life insurance policy right there IMO.

 

[MsMarple]

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwi_p9ag4PX_AhVqmokEHeGTBfYQFnoECAsQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fus-news%2F2023%2Fjul%2F04%2Ftitan-sub-implosion-details-safety-oceangate-experts&usg=AOvVaw1tbJZ67SuyYSbpsik9swLh&opi=89978449

This article explains how Rush took ALL criticisms as a ‘personal affront’, way back to the Cyclops (renamed Titan).

IMO, JMO that SRs extreme arrogance & sense of superiority over rode everything that anyone could put forth to make this endeavour successful.

Too bad that these issues were not made public before people lost their lives.

I wonder if his wife has any culpability seeing as she is/was a board member.

ETA: Mrs Rush would have known all about her husbands shortcomings.

Would her assets be at risk of lawsuits even if OceanGate is/was a limited company??

Looks like McCallum backpedaled a bit from his earlier statement that Titan dropped weights to attempt to ascend after the hull monitor alarm warned of hull failure (numerous links and discussion can be found upthread). Now he’s saying “maybe.” So did he have inside information or not?

My question was how would he know? The only way would be if someone on the support ship actually told him.

From your link, this is what he’s saying now, which supports what fired employee Lochridge claimed - that the hull monitoring system was flawed and any warning would come just milliseconds before implosion. The link in my last post also explained similar:

“Sometimes, they lose a little bit of weight to slow down as they’re approaching the bottom and sometimes, they lose a lot of weight in order to ascend,” McCallum explained to the Guardian. “You would need to read the dive log to know what weights were being dropped immediately prior to the catastrophe.”

The known circumstances are limited: the submersible was “located pretty much exactly where it was supposed to be” and that the implosion took mere milliseconds, McCallum said.

Submersibles “don’t carry a flight data recorder, and so you are reliant on communications between the submersible and the ship above – unless the log shows a concern from the submersible, then we’ll never know,” said McCallum, who has operated multiple commercial submarines to about 11,000 meters (36,089 ft).