TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #13

[hollyblue]

OT Another 46 yr old mother believed to be found...deceased...Dawna Natzte.

 

[ThoughtFox]

TF..Are you thinking of Grace Episcopal? The church where the memorial was held is on Ashland Terrace close to St. Jude Catholic Church and Lane Funeral Home.. JMHO..

I'm probably confused about which Episcopal Church it was - I almost wrote in my last post that it was nearly in East Ridge, but I figured lots of people here wouldn't know where that was anyway. I probably was thinking of Grace.

Still, there's Peter and Paul Catholic downtown, much closer to Signal. Then there's St. Jude. My sister-in-law goes to St. Stephens on Lee Highway (although it's not as large as the others). There are plenty of Catholic churches if they had wanted to have her funeral there.

 

[glorias]

BBM

Correct. My take is WRCB prolly contacted LE for the reason behind the three cars/6 men being at the residence...and were denied the info. Per the comments on WRCB's FB, it was because DN was trying to take Christmas presents she had for children. Since it's a MSM FB, I'm assuming it's OK to provide the link. Scroll about 1/3 of the way down and you'll see Gail's picture...and comments.

http://www.facebook.com/WRCBtv

My mind isn't working today -- what do you mean about DN taking presents? You don't mean that DN showed up with presents and MP called LE on her for that, do you? I can't find the comment on WRCB's page, but I've heard WRCB deletes comments so maybe it's gone now.

 

[glorias]

I don't know how many off duty policemen he hired for the funeral to keep people at bay.. My understanding at this time concerning six officers is there was a disturbance at the residence late yesterday afternoon and three squad cars and six officers responded....This was mentioned on Channel 3 last night.JMHO

Thanks for clarifying that. I thought the six officers were sent to the funeral.

 

[Emeralgem]

I'm probably confused about which Episcopal Church it was - I almost wrote in my last post that it was nearly in East Ridge, but I figured lots of people here wouldn't know where that was anyway. I probably was thinking of Grace.

Still, there's Peter and Paul Catholic downtown, much closer to Signal. Then there's St. Jude. My sister-in-law goes to St. Stephens on Lee Highway (although it's not as large as the others). There are plenty of Catholic churches if they had wanted to have her funeral there.

IF she was Catholic I don't why the memorial was held at St. Peters Episcopal instead of St. Jude since St. Jude is located basically next door... I'm thinking either she wasn't a practicing Catholic or MP felt the need to be in control...Imagine that...
IIRC I read there were about 100 people who attended so St. Augustine up on Signal would have been large enough to accomodate everyone who attended..JMHO

 

[Emeralgem]

BBM



My mind isn't working today -- what do you mean about DN taking presents? You don't mean that DN showed up with presents and MP called LE on her for that, do you? I can't find the comment on WRCB's page, but I've heard WRCB deletes comments so maybe it's gone now.

My understanding is DN and family was at a neighbor's house across the street . Seems they were not invited to the Plamgren residence on Ridgerock after the memorial... DN saw the children outside playing and tried to give them their Christmas presents and MP called the SMPD on Gail's sister..JMHO

 

[Annie_61]

I don’t know enough about the laws etc. governing this in the US but if Gail’s death is ruled a suicide would that change life insurance payouts etc. and if Gail changed her will to favour children and siblings could this explain some of the behaviour that seems to be surrounding yesterday’s memorial service.
I just can’t help feeling that the whole unstable state of mind that MP was trying to portray from the start, the speed at which he went to lodge the divorce paper work in the first week making a point of pointing out that Gail was paranoid etc. It just seems to me he needed to prove Gail was not mentally stable.

Can anyone remember if it was stated that Gail left a will with one of the people she was leaving her paperwork with? I know passports, jewellery was mentioned and somewhere in the back of my mind I thought the word will was mentioned by someone who had paperwork from Gail. (I could be very wrong due to lack of sleep so forgive me if I am)

Just seems to me that some wanted to make it sound like AD was controlling & influencing Gail and that Gail was not of sound mind…..something in my water tells me that this will not be over for Gail’s sister, brother and friends come Wednesday.

I hope Wednesday brings some answers to a couple of questions I still don’t understand.

The phone pings have me totally confused, why was there that one on the Monday?

How do we know that the Jeep went over on that Saturday afternoon, could it have gone over during the wee small hours of Sunday or Monday morning? Rolled gently over the edge with less noise and signs of it ever having been there (I guess all information from the black box will give us date and time to rule out that theory brought on by my sleep deprived brain)

Ok I know MP’s attorney told us the exact time it went over , but hey I am tired I can still question if that is the right time until I hear it from the LEO :blushing:

Why does the Jeep look like it took rear end impact when it went over, not front end as you would expect a vehicle to have going over a mountain side?

If the rock went over with the Jeep why didn’t it dig up the ground as it was dragged along?

Whatever the outcome of Wednesday I just hope it brings a little more closure to Gail’s loved ones and friends.

As always just some thoughts running around in my head and not based on any one particular bit of information we have so far.

OT I hope all here at WS have a Happy and peaceful 2012, filled with health, happiness and love. :grouphug:

 

[Melodie]

I don’t know enough about the laws etc. governing this in the US but if Gail’s death is ruled a suicide would that change life insurance payouts etc. and if Gail changed her will to favour children and siblings could this explain some of the behaviour that seems to be surrounding yesterday’s memorial service.
I just can’t help feeling that the whole unstable state of mind that MP was trying to portray from the start, the speed at which he went to lodge the divorce paper work in the first week making a point of pointing out that Gail was paranoid etc. It just seems to me he needed to prove Gail was not mentally stable.

Can anyone remember if it was stated that Gail left a will with one of the people she was leaving her paperwork with? I know passports, jewellery was mentioned and somewhere in the back of my mind I thought the word will was mentioned by someone who had paperwork from Gail. (I could be very wrong due to lack of sleep so forgive me if I am)

I hope Wednesday brings some answers to a couple of questions I still don’t understand.

The phone pings have me totally confused, why was there that one on the Monday?

How do we know that the Jeep went over on that Saturday afternoon, could it have gone over during the wee small hours of Sunday or Monday morning? Rolled gently over the edge with less noise and signs of it ever having been there (I guess all information from the black box will give us date and time to rule out that theory brought on by my sleep deprived brain)

Ok I know MP’s attorney told us the exact time it went over , but hey I am tired I can still question if that is the right time until I hear it from the LEO :blushing:

Why does the Jeep look like it took rear end impact when it went over, not front end as you would expect a vehicle to have going over a mountain side?

If the rock went over with the Jeep why didn’t it dig up the ground as it was dragged along?

Whatever the outcome of Wednesday I just hope it brings a little more closure to Gail’s loved ones and friends.

As always just some thoughts running around in my head and not based on any one particular bit of information we have so far.

OT I hope all here at WS have a Happy and peaceful 2012, filled with health, happiness and love. :grouphug:

Hi Annie61,
I think regarding the life insurance, it depends on the policy or the company. Some life insurance policies will pay out for suicide as long as a certain amount of time has passed since the policy was taken out, usually around 2 years. Others will not pay at all for suicide. I have been curious if the company that holds the life insurance policy would investigate this case since there is so much controversy surrounding it. They would probably accept the official determination, but I was just curious if they would send someone to look into it.

I don't remember reading anything about Gail's will. As far as the timeline, my understanding is that they based the time on findings from her cell phone. They apparently retrieved it from the accident site and were able to determine pretty quickly that it registered a drop in altitude at that exact time. I think that is what was reported.

I have heard people say that the rear end damage is due to the theory that the Jeep flipped in air after going over the edge. I asked my hubby if this sounded right to him and he said yes. He said that if a vehicle goes over a cliff like that, due to the weight of the front end, the front will immediately drop into like a nosedive. That weight headed down will cause the vehicle to flip in the air and then the impact will be on the back end. I have heard other people say this as well and IIRC, one of the investigators may have explained it that way, too. I don't have any experience with this and was confused, like many others, about the rear end damage compared to the pristine appearance of the front end.

I was perplexed by the lack of damage to the area from the Jeep if Gail lost control. I have not been there, but the pictures appear to show a lot of obstacles. From the pictures it looks as if the Jeep went straight over one large rock cleanly. It seems to me if one lost control that the vehicle would have been all over the place and skidding and knocking down other things in the way. I also am scratching my head over the idea that the rock was dragged down too. I would think the Jeep would have scaled right over the rock and it would have barely moved.

All of the above is JMO.

Happy New Year to all!!

:fireworks2:

 

[my_tee_mouse]

I'm probably confused about which Episcopal Church it was - I almost wrote in my last post that it was nearly in East Ridge, but I figured lots of people here wouldn't know where that was anyway. I probably was thinking of Grace.

Still, there's Peter and Paul Catholic downtown, much closer to Signal. Then there's St. Jude. My sister-in-law goes to St. Stephens on Lee Highway (although it's not as large as the others). There are plenty of Catholic churches if they had wanted to have her funeral there.

Now bear in mind...I'm a Presbyterian preacher's kid...not Roman Catholic...but...

In the "olden" days (like when I was a kid), there was an issue with the Roman Catholic Church and suicide, correct? And since the cause of death is still rather up in the air, could it be that the Roman Catholic Church declined to have the service because there was a possibility of suicide?

Just a thought that occurred to me. Those of you in the know, please educate me. TIA.

 

[Annie_61]

Now bear in mind...I'm a Presbyterian preacher's kid...not Roman Catholic...but...

In the "olden" days (like when I was a kid), there was an issue with the Roman Catholic Church and suicide, correct? And since the cause of death is still rather up in the air, could it be that the Roman Catholic Church declined to have the service because there was a possibility of suicide?

Just a thought that occurred to me. Those of you in the know, please educate me. TIA.

That had also been running around in my thoughts as well once the subject of churches came up. But like you I don't know enough about the subject to be comment on it as such.

 

[Pearl*]

Now bear in mind...I'm a Presbyterian preacher's kid...not Roman Catholic...but...

In the "olden" days (like when I was a kid), there was an issue with the Roman Catholic Church and suicide, correct? And since the cause of death is still rather up in the air, could it be that the Roman Catholic Church declined to have the service because there was a possibility of suicide?

Just a thought that occurred to me. Those of you in the know, please educate me. TIA.

I do not know the answers to your questions, but if I may use them as a springboard....

I recall from several years ago some publicity by a local advocate, encouraging that people abandon the common term "commit suicide" and replace with "died by suicide." I thought the concept very thought-provoking and, in fact, still do.

 

[Annie_61]

Hi Annie61,

I don't remember reading anything about Gail's will. As far as the timeline, my understanding is that they based the time on findings from her cell phone. They apparently retrieved it from the accident site and were able to determine pretty quickly that it registered a drop in altitude at that exact time. I think that is what was reported.


All of the above is JMO.

Happy New Year to all!!

:fireworks2:

Respectfully snipped because it would look like we were trying to write a novel between us if I left all the quotes

Thank you for that Melodie, I been trying to look back over the last 8 months to see if I can make some sense of MP actions and behaviour during that time and trying to understand him. One of the points I keep going back to was why MP wanted to have Gail’s mental state of mind questions from the start. I know we have all worked over the idea it was to cover up her disappearance but my mind has been running with the idea that he was worried because he found Gail was well and truly preparing for divorce she may have changed her will and he might need to contest a new will if there had been one made in the week or two leading up to her death.

I think I got confused over talks of wills when the house was listed and there was some talk about Gail’s will at the time. (Old age mixed with tired brain just isn’t a good combination for remembering :blushing

As always the above is just random thoughts that had been running around in my head and are not to be considered fact.

 

[Emeralgem]

Now bear in mind...I'm a Presbyterian preacher's kid...not Roman Catholic...but...

In the "olden" days (like when I was a kid), there was an issue with the Roman Catholic Church and suicide, correct? And since the cause of death is still rather up in the air, could it be that the Roman Catholic Church declined to have the service because there was a possibility of suicide?Just a thought that occurred to me. Those of you in the know, please educate me. TIA.

BBM...Yes, at one time there was an issue with suicide.. But that was then ..This is now..The Church NOW better understands the psychological disturbances that may influence a suicide This being the case, those who take their life are now typically provided funerals..
My husband died of suicide in 2001 and was brought into the church for a Funeral Mass. JMHO

 

[my_tee_mouse]

I do not know the answers to your questions, but if I may use them as a springboard....

I recall from several years ago some publicity by a local advocate, encouraging that people abandon the common term "commit suicide" and replace with "died by suicide." I thought the concept very thought-provoking and, in fact, still do.

As the daughter of someone who "died by suicide," and as a social worker...I am going to keep this term in my head and heart. Thank you!

 

[ThoughtFox]

BBM...Yes, at one time there was an issue with suicide.. But that was then ..This is now..The Church NOW better understands the psychological disturbances that may influence a suicide This being the case, those who take their life are now typically provided funerals..
My husband died of suicide in 2001 and was brought into the church for a Funeral Mass. JMHO

I've never heard of a Catholic church refusing a Mass for someone who took their own life. I just don't believe that happened in this case.

However I can imagine most churches being concerned if someone said: "I want police stationed at every door, and I want my attorneys to keep people out just because I don't like them." That doesn't sound very Christian to me no matter what the denomination, but that's just my opinion only. :twocents:

 

[Emeralgem]

I do not know the answers to your questions, but if I may use them as a springboard....

I recall from several years ago some publicity by a local advocate, encouraging that people abandon the common term "commit suicide" and replace with "died by suicide." I thought the concept very thought-provoking and, in fact, still do.

Thank you... I try to never state my husband "committed suicide"..JMHO

 

[my_tee_mouse]

BBM...Yes, at one time there was an issue with suicide.. But that was then ..This is now..The Church NOW better understands the psychological disturbances that may influence a suicide This being the case, those who take their life are now typically provided funerals..
My husband died of suicide in 2001 and was brought into the church for a Funeral Mass. JMHO

Thank you for explaining and sharing. (And my heart goes out to you.)

 

[Emeralgem]

I've never heard of a Catholic church refusing a Mass for someone who took their own life. I just don't believe that happened in this case.

However I can imagine most churches being concerned if someone said: "I want police stationed at every door, and I want my attorneys to keep someone out just because I don't like them." That doesn't sound very Christian to me no matter what the denomination, but that's just my opinion only. :twocents:

At one time the Catholic Church did...

True Story.... When my husband died and our parish priest came to the house, he went over to speak to my youngest daughter..She immediately told him she didn't want to hear any of his Catholic BS about her father going to Hell... He immediately told her he would never say that to her..She told him..Well, that is what I have been taught my entire life... She was 20 at the time of her father's death...Thank God the Church has changed their stance.. JMHO

 

[Annie_61]

Oh boy this page has made me shed a tear, for Gail, for her children, for all who have felt the pain when a loved one has died by suicide and just for all those who have felt the loss of loved ones young and old.

:grouphug:

Remembering those we have lost as well as Gail. RIP

Sorry if this seems all emotional but the questions just for a second was asked when my nephew died on the 25th Dec, as he was going through a messy divorce and his children were kept from him at Christmas time. Our family were lucky we knew the answers within hours that it was a tragic accident and his soon to be ex-wife has really stepped up and acted with great maturity.
I think this is why I am trying to go back and understand MP’s behaviour

Sorry all this is so OT for Gail, but I just need to say some of this.

 

[my_tee_mouse]

I have a feeling that Gail is sitting on our shoulders as we share, and she approves!