TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #6

[ThoughtFox]

So given the 48 hour window and the fact that the Jeep hasnt been found, what is your best guess especially the locals? Where would you dispose of a vehicle...would you drop it off in downtown Chatanooga with the keys in it? I mean really, what would you do???

No, I don't believe it would be dropped off downtown at all because it would be too obvious. Better to have it disappear for insurance reasons.

If I could look anywhere, I would look in northern Alabama. It's remote, rural, heavily forested, sparsly populated, mountainous, lots of lakes and parks, and no one would notice a jeep being driven around. It was home for years to MP's girlfriend who lived in Ider on Sand Mountain, and halfway between Chattanooga and Mississippi, her new home. :twocents:

I go back and forth between whether the the jeep was a payment in itself, or Pearl's idea of a chop-shop.

 

[happy409]

Not local, but it seems the question of how much cash she would have to sustain her would be important.... unless she had family/friends she could depend on...and dumping the jeep. Hidden in a storage unit or on their property somewhere. Personally, I'm not leaning this way in my thinking, but LE would know if she did access a large amount of cash....and that might change my mind; but I don't LE should or would release that info. I didn't care to hear about her possibly being in possession of $30K of jewelry while people were suppose to be looking for a missing woman. :banghead: Now we know she had given it to the couple in Montgomery. That's the only reason I can possibly believe that LE still classifies her case as a missing investigation (in the press)....and do believe when the press was reporting on her case in the beginning and showed the SMPD dispatcher's screen it had her listed as endangered....as did the local release from the AL LE. If I'm incorrect with that, some please correct me.

BBM
That is correct
http://dps.alabama.gov/Community/Pages/wfAlertFlyer.aspx?ID=b3b6be37-110f-4d81-a502-72285f950023

 

[Irish_Eyes]

Wondering two things:

1) A poster said that car thefts are high here, is that true? Wonder if the car was put somewhere, like at the airport maybe or something to make it look like Gail left. And maybe it was supposed to be found, so that it would look like she had run off, but instead it was stolen.

2) From what I understand, GP had a PI follow MP too right....so if she was being followed, why wouldn't she assume he was doing the same thing and it was just a PI, instead of someone with violent intent. I wouldn't be scared as much as pi$$ed off! This leads me to believe that there was more than just the being followed that had her scared. Did one of these cars try to run her off the road? Did MP/someone else threaten her? Did she find something concerning when she saw the texts on his phone? I just think there's got to be more than just being followed.

 

[glorias]

Was the Jeep ever officially reported as stolen? Last I knew it was not, but reporting it as stolen might be redundant at this point.

 

[Oriah]

So given the 48 hour window and the fact that the Jeep hasnt been found, what is your best guess especially the locals? Where would you dispose of a vehicle...would you drop it off in downtown Chatanooga with the keys in it? I mean really, what would you do???

Interesting thought (dropping off with the keys in it.) If I were LE, I'd run the registration and VIN...and check those against every state in the continental US in the event it was stolen or sold. Then I'd start looking at the financing of the vehicle. Is it paid off? A loan? A lease? Who's name is associated with each vehicle in the household- or elsewhere anyone associated with the case is?

If I intended to harm someone who was fiscally and legally solely responsible for the vehicle, I don't think I'd have a problem sinking it somewhere in order to destroy evidence and make it appear as if the owner of the vehicle disappeared willingly- or, as mentioned earlier (if I knew there was no evidence of the vehicle holding clues to a disappearance) I might park it somewhere it wouldn't stand out if it sat for a few or three days.

If I had nothing to do with harming someone, but cared for them- I'd want areas of probable accidents searched, as well as areas of high crime, where a carjacking or theft might occur. I would want all locations that the person missing along with vehicle may have gone searched; including personal properties, properties of friends and family, and any frequently known areas visited by the missing person searched.

But if there were any financial or legal obligations to the vehicle that were associated with MY name, I think I'd go about it differently. I might trade it in. If I needed a relatively large sum of cash immediately, and I were in possession of the vehicle, I might either pay off a 'debt' with it, chop shop it, or sell it under the table to someone.

Lot's of possibilities, it seems.

 

[believe09]

Thank you everyone who is weighing in. So it would be helpful to know who was on the registration for each vehicle in the Palmgren household, I would think. Come to think about it, it would be nice to know who owned each house and piece of property as well. Something is ringing a bell about being down that road before...

 

[Oriah]

Thank you everyone who is weighing in. So it would be helpful to know who was on the registration for each vehicle in the Palmgren household, I would think. Come to think about it, it would be nice to know who owned each house and piece of property as well. Something is ringing a bell about being down that road before...

I would think it would be extremely important to know ownership of every vehicle as well as residences or property in a situation like this. I also think wills or trusts would be important. Are there any trusts for the children set up? Who might an executer of a will or trusts be? Was there any abrupt change or transference of vehicles, homes, or properties prior to Gail missing?
What about changes to any wills, or trusts?

 

[believe09]

The will and/or trusts wont be public docs unless one get's filed so that someone can be a conservator or Trustee while Gail is missing. I know we touched on life insurance policies as well-a couple with their assets probably had one or two.

 

[Oriah]

The will and/or trusts wont be public docs unless one get's filed so that someone can be a conservator or Trustee while Gail is missing. I know we touched on life insurance policies as well-a couple with their assets probably had one or two.

Is there a wait time in the state of TN for someone to file in this sort of situation?

Let's say for example- I know I am the conservator of several minors' trusts. I am unrelated to the minors, of whom one custodial parent is living, and one has been missing without a trace for several months. I might call my attorney to ask what the time period was before I would be able to fullfill my obligation as conservator of these trusts. Perhaps the missing party has named only myself as conservator in the event something should happen to him/her- including disappear for X number of days. What happens then?

My familiarity with this type of situation involves trusts that are set up for a variety of different people and agencies/organizations. If I should die or disappear (yes that's actually an option!) then it gets passed to someone else as conservator, and on and on and on, should the situation progress to that point.

So I guess my point is in a very roundabout way- I wonder what assets of Gail's are earmarked in a will or trust for her children or family or friends with the exception of her husband. Has anything been changed in the last year or so?

I realize these questions can't be answered... but it seems like food for thought to me.

 

[Oriah]

Uniform Transfers to Minors Act for property management:

http://www.law.upenn.edu/bll/archives/ulc/fnact99/1980s/utma86.htm

An interesting read.

 

[believe09]

The named successor trustee can request the court appoint him/her in order to make decisions regarding the estate while the trustee is not able to speak for themselves-it depends on the terms of the trust but it is not uncommon. A judge would need to hear the argument and make the decision I think in a civil or probate court.

Where things get tricky are when we are talking about the temptation to liquidate assets. And cash out certain portions of the estate. Now the judge can require distribution requests to go through the court, the judge could decide that regular audits of the accounting of the trust have to be done, or the judge could appoint a third party to oversee the assets. And the children for that matter. So it can be a can of worms that MP, for example, may not want to open at this time.

Of course, if he makes this kind of run for her money...well it will raise eyebrows for sure.

 

[believe09]

You raise a good point, Oriah. I had a friend who went through a divorce and there were UTMA accounts with 50K in each for the children. When it came down to the nitty gritty of accounting, there was 11K left in each. One spouse yanked the money out of all three.

So, if there are accounts set up for the children, I wonder if they are intact still?

 

[Oriah]

The named successor trustee can request the court appoint him/her in order to make decisions regarding the estate while the trustee is not able to speak for themselves-it depends on the terms of the trust but it is not uncommon. A judge would need to hear the argument and make the decision I think in a civil or probate court.

Where things get tricky are when we are talking about the temptation to liquidate assets. And cash out certain portions of the estate. Now the judge can require distribution requests to go through the court, the judge could decide that regular audits of the accounting of the trust have to be done, or the judge could appoint a third party to oversee the assets. And the children for that matter. So it can be a can of worms that MP, for example, may not want to open at this time.

Of course, if he makes this kind of run for her money...well it will raise eyebrows for sure.

Thanks, Believe09.

BBM: this point was my driving force here, and something I wonder about re: temptation. It might not be wise, but temptation rarely is.

Thank you for saying it more eloquently than I!

 

[Oriah]

You raise a good point, Oriah. I had a friend who went through a divorce and there were UTMA accounts with 50K in each for the children. When it came down to the nitty gritty of accounting, there was 11K left in each. One spouse yanked the money out of all three.

So, if there are accounts set up for the children, I wonder if they are intact still?

I wonder this as well.
I too have a friend who went through a divorce with sizable assets, including certain accounts set up for their children when they reached age 25. My friend was the one who yanked the childrens accounts before she left (on the advice of her attorney) and transferred the money into accounts that required an outside party in place of herself to manage. Her husband was somewhat oblivious until after she and the children left, and she filed for divorce. At which time he insisted he owed her nothing and was going to fight for custody of the children. She said, have at it- and was granted full custody as well as 50% of all joint assets and 100% of her personal, family, and childrens' trust assets.

Reminding myself of that, I wonder whether or not leaving with the children was the initial thought behind Gail's quick trip to the lake house.

 

[hollyblue]

Not wanting to change the thought here, but can someone confirm that MP had a PI following GP? If so, why didn't he know where GP went that Saturday afternoon? I'm thinking Mathias was after she was reported missing. ???? Thanks.

 

[Columbo]

Not wanting to change the thought here, but can someone confirm that MP had a PI following GP? If so, why didn't he know where GP went that Saturday afternoon? I'm thinking Mathias was after she was reported missing. ???? Thanks.

bolded by me.

Good thinking! Why didn't he know, if there was indeed a PI following her? Of course, the PI would have known that!

 

[Pearl*]

Not wanting to change the thought here, but can someone confirm that MP had a PI following GP? If so, why didn't he know where GP went that Saturday afternoon? I'm thinking Mathias was after she was reported missing. ???? Thanks.

Oh, but I think they know so much more than they are telling the public! Do we know they don't know?

ETA: Not suggesting a PI would have known where she disappeared from (bad grammar but not sure how else to say it). Maybe the PI lost the jeep along the way, but I would think should have had some direction.

 

[Oriah]

bolded by me.

Good thinking! Why didn't he know, if there was indeed a PI following her? Of course, the PI would have known that!

I haven't found a MSM link for this...but I may have missed it somewhere. :waitasec: I'll see what I can dig up.

And also not to change the flow of discussion, different question entirely- and I might have missed this also- but does anyone have the police incident report from the April 21st incident in PDF?

 

[Pearl*]

And also not to change the flow of discussion, different question entirely- and I might have missed this also- but does anyone have the police incident report from the April 21st incident in PDF?

I've been wanting to know who wrote the various reports. If it's not privileged information, I mean I want the names. And the times.

Any other locals been wondering about that?

 

[Oriah]

Oh, but I think they know so much more than they are telling the public! Do we know they don't know?

ETA: Not suggesting a PI would have known where she disappeared from (bad grammar but not sure how else to say it). Maybe the PI lost the jeep along the way, but I would think should have had some direction.

BBM: Nope! We rarely do, during an active investigation.
Always something to consider.