TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #6

[glorias]

calliestarnes Callie Starnes
by WRCBPalmgren
Lee Davis seems frustrated and annoyed by the order. "Respectfully we are asking for this be dissolved." #missingmom

3 minutes ago johnmadewellNC9 JohnMadewell
#Chanews Davis: "Unbelievable" Gail Palmgren's atty didn't acknowledge she sent $17K to sister 5 days before going missing

Can someone who knows more about legal procedure explain the $17K thing? If it was disclosed to LE, why was it such a problem that it wasn't disclosed in the paperwork? Especially since it appears it has not been cashed.

 

[glorias]

The overriding opinion on this forum and on FB is that Gail is a weak, beaten down woman, who's overbearing, dominating, ogre of a husband constantly abused and berated her. People seem blind to the fact that Gail is a very strong minded, intelligent woman. She knew what she was doing and did what she wanted to do. No matter how desperately the public wants Matt to be guilty of this, thus far the authorities have nothing, NOTHING that suggests he has done anything wrong.

(snipped)

I did feel a bit sick today, before the hearing, when certain people were almost foaming at the mouth, hoping that the judge would agree to the siblings demands and make life even harder on Matt and the children. Thankfully the judge remembered what this case is about.

Personally, I haven't seen anything even close to the level of vitriol you describe. (I can't speak for FB, I stopped going there a while ago for various reasons.) In fact, I see most people saying that Gail is NOT weak, she was accomplished and intelligent and planning for the future. Certainly if you re-read the news articles, you'll see DN, AD, SB, and others saying how strong and resourceful Gail is. Here on WS, many theories have been put forth asking why someone who is described as being so together would now suddenly be described as "flat f-- up" and other negative descriptors.

I don't know who the "certain people" "foaming at the mouth" you are talking about are. But after reading what the siblings were requesting, it sounds exactly like they were wanting to protect Gail's interests since they think she's still alive. You've said the same thing, that you think she's alive. Surely you can see how her interests should be protected.

And I don't really see what was in the order that would have made Matt's life difficult. It asks for the location of family heirlooms like coins and jewelry, that Gail's property not be liquidated and be kept up, etc. That's protecting both Gail and her family, who have an interest in this situation. It's not all about Matt.

It asks for counseling for the kids, too, and if they already were in counseling, I think that speaks VOLUMES as to how little MP is telling Gail's family.

 

[BeanE]

I read it to mean that even IF proper procedures were not followed, it doesn't change the facts.

Well, from what I read and saw in the videos, that is one of the arguments presented by Diane & Kevin's attorneys. I'm trying to understand from an overall legal standpoint, why the judge ruled as he did.

Call the opposing attorneys (even though no open case exists, since Matt's attorneys withdrew the previous filings) and tell them you intend to file a Petition and request an ex parte order pending the hearing? Seriously? Service is then made by mail or in person after the filing. Right? And he must have been served in order to have knowledge of the document. So what's the problem there?

IANAL, but my understanding from attorneys, is that the courts prefer that attorneys work out what they can beforehand, so as not to take up more of the court's time (translates to $$$ & overcrowded dockets) than necessary. From what I read and saw, the thinking was that in a phone call, they could have settled things such as the counseling issue.

And then the issues regarding the $17,000 would have been debated at the hearing on July 11, along with the other stuff.

My understanding is that the problem was that the $17k wasn't disclosed, although the RO has all the stipulations in it regarding $$$, and because the RO is about $$$, it should have been disclosed. I don't know the full whys and wherefores.

But it was dissolved without discussion, if I understand correctly what occurred today.

From what I read and saw in the videos, both sides were able to present their arguments. I'm not quite sure what you mean by without discussion.

On the other hand, if Gail's siblings' attorneys failed to follow proper procedures, I think they should be fired immediately. Diane and Kevin can't afford mistakes like that.

I don't think I would be too happy if it was indeed not following procedure that got it tossed, and they did acknowledge they didn't follow procedure. I wish we had more detail on that.

I'm no lawyer, but I don't get this. Would love for gitana to weigh in on this mess.

I wonder if the mods could ask one of our WS attorneys to pop by and give us more insight, or if we can just PM one of them and ask ourselves.

 

[confused]

The way this has been phrased in various posts leads me to think she had Sprint and he had Verizon. Is this a fact?

If so... how nice. He had the more reliable phone. I wonder who was on the road more with the children....

Wow, could it be that she liked her phone and didn't want to change. I have Sprint, and I love my plan and don't want to change. My hubby has AT&T. He chose his and I chose mine. He gets better service some places, I get it other places. <modsnip> If you have proof that he forced her to use the lesser phone, then I will gladly retract my statement.

 

[BeanE]

Hmmm...I dont think it is AD's call who should receive the DVR. I think that the concern now would be, and I am simply playing devil's advocate, that the hard drive could have been tampered with while in AD's possession. I would think that the chain of custody is at issue here.

I am disturbed, really really disturbed (just voicing my sole opinion here) that the two jurisdictions handling this case (SMPD and HCSO) are being maligned with implications that they would willingly or accidently cause the destruction of evidence associated with the case. But I am willing to learn-do they have a history of destroying or misplacing evidence?

<modsnip> I hope that she feels confident enough in her local PD that she would make the report-maybe they can broker the transfer of the hard drive to their fellow LE?

I have a feeling this is going to win the Stupid Question of the Week Award, but...

Are the DVR and the hard drive the same device? Or two separate things?

 

[fbx]

It is my opinion that this observation by the neighbors is absolutely wrong! even Arlene said they had been boating down on the lake, and I have heard of several other places they have gone already. possibly they aren't out in the neighborhood for fear of the media, nosey neighbors, inquiring sleuths...

and:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanE
Since Gail disappeared, have the kids spent time with any member of Gail's family, without Matt or a member of his family around? How about with neighbors or at their friends' houses? Without Matt or a member or his family around?


With Gail's family, not that I am aware.

Neighbors only a time or two, in the first week after Gail disappeared. Since Summer started it seems that the kids are hardly ever at home or out playing in the neighborhood as they usually would be, which has a greater consequence for one of them.

But Confused is also correct, because:
Yes to one of them at their friends houses, and also, at least one of them has continued to participate in at least one series of activities outside the home unsupervised by family.

The problem is that several of the kids friends have been unavailable to them because of their parents relationship with Gail. This seems to effect one more than the other, and also excludes them from activities that Gail would normally be involved with.
Interesting that this seems to be changing since Friday.

 

[glorias]

That's NOT what is going on here.

Given all the people investigating and determining physical areas where she or the Jeep could be (trails, mine shafts, etc.), posting legal documents and links to media articles, links to flyers and vigils and search efforts, and Gail's friends who are posting here who are heartbroken that their friend is missing, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you on this.

 

[Pearl*]

Wow, could it be that she liked her phone and didn't want to change. I have Sprint, and I love my plan and don't want to change. My hubby has AT&T. He chose his and I chose mine. He gets better service some places, I get it other places. <modsnip>.

That's a fair post. My last comment probably would have been better left unsaid. I'll admit I'm angry tonight because I do not believe justice was served in the courtroom today.

 

[lalalu]

Geez Louise, things have gone somewhere in a hand basket since I last read up on things! I am more mystified than ever!

I don't know what to think about all the recent legal proceedings...

The tire slashing business though...I honestly don't think M. or T. would have had a hand in it - that sort of thing is...well... hmmm. I do think it was possibly done by someone not related to the case, just to stir things up. JMO. M. is obviously NO gentleman, but upper middle class, educated individuals don't usually resort to tire slashing...

I still tend to think Gail left on her own, but may have been a victim of some type of accident or unrelated foul play and it makes me sad...

I am not siding with anyone - this case has too many discrepant factors for me to come to a reasonable conclusion.

 

[glorias]

snipped..

several of the kids friends have been unavailable to them because of their parents relationship with Gail. This seems to effect one more than the other, and also excludes them from activities that Gail would normally be involved with.
Interesting that this seems to be changing since Friday.

Changing in what way?

Thanks for the info about parents who knew Gail. I wondered out loud about parents who knew Gail via kid's activities, but for whatever reason asking that bothered some other posters, not sure why.

Are you basically saying that they knew Gail and are wary of Matt? I suppose that's to be expected, but it's really unfortunate for the kids.

 

[Melodie]

and:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanE
Since Gail disappeared, have the kids spent time with any member of Gail's family, without Matt or a member of his family around? How about with neighbors or at their friends' houses? Without Matt or a member or his family around?


With Gail's family, not that I am aware.

Neighbors only a time or two, in the first week after Gail disappeared. Since Summer started it seems that the kids are hardly ever at home or out playing in the neighborhood as they usually would be, which has a greater consequence for one of them.

But Confused is also correct, because:
Yes to one of them at their friends houses, and also, at least one of them has continued to participate in at least one series of activities outside the home unsupervised by family.

The problem is that several of the kids friends have been unavailable to them because of their parents relationship with Gail. This seems to effect one more than the other, and also excludes them from activities that Gail would normally be involved with.
Interesting that this seems to be changing since Friday.

BBM- I'm curious... Changing how? Does there seem to be more restriction since Friday or less?

 

[glorias]

I have a feeling this is going to win the Stupid Question of the Week Award, but...

Are the DVR and the hard drive the same device? Or two separate things?

The same device. A security DVR records video from a camera onto a hard drive instead of a DVD disk. The info on the hard drive can be downloaded to a disk, though, if you want to save it or back it up. I posted a couple of examples here:

[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6604827#post6604827"]TN TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #4 - Page 19 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


I always assumed AD was picking up the DVR because Gail dropped it off to have that video downloaded to disk, but was it actually in for repairs? Does anyone know? I apparently missed that part.

 

[BeanE]

Thank you so much, glorias.

 

[ThoughtFox]

The same device. A security DVR records video from a camera onto a hard drive instead of a DVD disk. The info on the hard drive can be downloaded to a disk, though, if you want to save it or back it up. I posted a couple of examples here:

TN TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #4 - Page 19 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


I always assumed AD was picking up the DVR because Gail dropped it off to have that video downloaded to disk, but was it actually in for repairs? Does anyone know? I apparently missed that part.

Arlene said in the most recent article that it had been erased, but that Gail wanted Best Buy to try and retrieve because it might show an argument between MP and herself that she could use in divorce proceedings.

http://timesfreepress.com/news/2011/jun/29/signal-mountain-palmgren-friend-say-she-has-images/

 

[happy409]

If the cell phone carrier was Sprint then I will talk to my daughter and find out how she accesses her boyfriend's text messages from the computer. More than likely that was what MP was doing to GP. My daughter and boyfriend also keep track of where each other go using the GPS capabilities on their Sprint phones so MP probably knew where GP was at all times.

Sprint has Family Locator, ($5.00 a month per account for up to 4 phones) but it does randomly text the phone over a month's time, maybe more that the phone is being tracked. It can be located via login to sprint or an android app (I know I have it). Otherwise, it is against the law to track someone without their knowledge, although that's a moot issue with this case it appears.

But, I believe AD mentioned GP knew she was being tracked (however she knew) so it's not that big of a deal. I think GP was just going along with everything until she had her ducks in a row, and it appears initially a smart move based on the issues they had between them.

Nonetheless, two days later the phone would have eventually lost battery or was destroyed possibly (thrown out of vehicle) and the phone must be powered on to track via the Sprint Family Locator function. What concerns me, if he was tracking the phone, there is a history function, when you track someone. My issue is when she left, WHY didn't he track her, or maybe HE DID!! FWIW. JMHO of course.....

 

[fbx]

IMO and EXPERIENCE with kids of this age in this socio-economic group and type of neighborhood.....a normal summer for kids of 9 and 12 would be baseball and soccer and swim team and junior golf and tennis and art classes and music lessons and perhaps a summer camp week or two for training in a favorite sport or with a church group or scout camp. Free time would be spent constantly swimming and hanging out at friends homes, or friends coming over to their home for the day to do the same. Video games and computers would be for "at home" time in the late evenings after 8 or 9 pm when it is appropriate for kids their age to be at home for the night......except for frequent sleepovers with friends of course. Weekends would be spent at baseball or soccer tournaments, or swim meets and a few trips to the lake or beach when possible. BUT....that is just from my own experiences growing up and also having had kids this age relatively recently. Dads/moms who didn't have to work would be coaches and transportation managers and devoted to their kids activities.....especially if there were some kind of family crisis that would mean the kids needed extra attention and some distraction from worry.

jmo

I was about to complain about Confused video game comments (what a horrifying description of Summer!!!) But then thankfully read your description of a typical Signal Mountain summer...except add family TV-time to the evening activities!
I would say they are not having a typical Summer, but how could they possibly have one?! They are still doing several of the things on your list. The main thing is that there is a severe drop in contact with several of the people who care for them a great deal, including Gail's family, at a time when IMO(and others) they likely need those people the most.

 

[JBean]

OK a couple things.
You can't pst personal attacks at members. Just can't do it. TO's come next. Sorry but it is such a waste of time in a thread about a missing woman, that it is just not worthy of toleration.
This includes generalized slams against the posting membership.

I see a lot of people trying to sort through this mess and I thank you for that.

Where is Gail?

 

[carolinagirl56]

That's exactly how I see it too. :maddening: He overstepped his boundaries.

Makes you wonder how he spent that $40K.

 

[fbx]

snipped..



Changing in what way?

Thanks for the info about parents who knew Gail. I wondered out loud about parents who knew Gail via kid's activities, but for whatever reason asking that bothered some other posters, not sure why.

Are you basically saying that they knew Gail and are wary of Matt? I suppose that's to be expected, but it's really unfortunate for the kids.

Changing in a positive way

Although you are right about them being wary...it seems strongest in reverse. The kids are very welcome and are sorely missed in the homes of some of their friends. Does this help explain some of the silence that is complained about? Gail is not here, her kids need their friends, her friends care about that.

 

[Columbo]

I wonder if he did it at all, or is this another story to make him out to be a monster. Maybe the kids sneaked over and did it, because they are tired of people trashing their dad... JMO

I have to say, despite what I stated in my post, I have a hard time believing he would actually slash tires, but it seems like an odd coincidence. Maybe Arlene isn't even sure he did it--it seems odd that, as outspoken as she is, this incident didn't surface before now, when it happened two weeks ago. To me that says she won't accuse anyone because she doesn't know for sure who did it, either. It indicates integrity on her part.

I definitely do not think the children are going around slashing tires.

I truly don't believe that anyone here wants him to be guilty of doing anything to Gail. His own behavior and actions are making him out to be a man of poor character. I don't think anyone is saying he's a monster.