TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #6

[Pearl*]

I have the impression that she always provides reliable information.

I should add that I do not know if Sleuthy is male or female. Over time, I tend to get an IMPRESSION of many posters that leads me to use pronouns. I try to look back and edit it out, but I thought this time it might be better to explain. I wonder if others on here have the same problem. I find it frustrating!

For instance, I've always had the IMPRESSION that Believe09 is a man because the picture is a man, but I know that may or may not be a picture of Believe09.

 

[JBean]

BBM
:twocents:GP took both the children and the dogs with her in the JEEP and drove to the Lake House in Wetumpka, AL. Also, The DATE is WRONG ON THIS part of your timeline - It may be due to a misunderstanding from an interview or bad reporting,That conversation btwn AD & GP didn't take place on the 29th of April.:waitasec: I believe conversation actually took place on or around April 26th.

AD has always maintained that the last time she spoke to Gail was the 29th. Do you mean it was a different conversation on the 29th? or she did not talk to her the 29th?


>>On April 29, Arlene said Gail Palmgren called her while en route on the four-and-a-half-hour trip from Signal Mountain to Wetumpka. She said, "We're on our way. Can you meet us in town?"

Earlier in the day, the Signal Mountain Police had been called to the Palmgren home. They provided Gail with "phone numbers of a safe place to stay." It was the third time in a week police made domestic calls to 40 Ridgerock Dr.

Arlene said Gail told her the plan was for Matt to come down to the lake house on Easy Street and tell the kids about the upcoming separation.

Gail and Arlene visited that night for about an hour at Mike's house. They were preparing for Mike's 50th birthday celebration the next day on the 30th. She said, "Gail was quiet. It was not the normal Gail." She said she had no idea it was the last time she would ever see Gail Palmgren.

Arlene said she was expecting to visit with Gail and the children again on the 30th. Then she found that Gail had suddenly driven back to Chattanooga.<<

http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_203035.asp

 

[BeanE]

All good probabilities. If he did have some sort of tracking and spyware on her digitals, wonder how she talked to her PI without MP knowing....or did he learn as much as she did?

I wondered about communication with her PI too. If Matt was reviewing her text messages every night, then it wouldn't have been wise for her to be texting with the PI. I wonder if she had another throwaway cell phone she could use to send and receive texts that Matt wouldn't see.

TBH, I'm also wondering if Matt really was reviewing her text messages every night. I mean, was she handing him her cell every night, and then he'd review and delete messages, and then hand it back to her? Or how did that go? It's just hard for me to envision.

I'm wondering if it might be that Gail was missing a few messages, and said "Wow I wonder if Matt's gotten hold of my cell and deleted them!", and it kind of grew from there.

I need to listen to both of Arlene's interviews again - I've just been putting it off.

I also wonder why Gail was given the info on safehouse? Was it just SOP or was there a cause? Not only possible physical violence, but maybe she told LE about being follwed, gave them the LP#, etc. ??

The videos that show the reports say verbal only, and there were no arrests, so I'm taking that to mean there was no physical stuff. It may have been SOP - it is (thank God!) - for a lot of PDs now.

I've wondered if she told LE on any of the 3 911 calls 22nd, 24th, 29th, that she thought she was being followed, and if so, how that played into LE's course of action after she disappeared.

MOO, but I think it's basically, at this point, a criminal investigation but LE won't go with it to the media, because MSM will want to know if they have any POI's.

I know that it's 2 investigators with HCSO's criminal investigations division that are assisting SMPD, but I'm not sure that means it's a criminal investigation. That is, LE keeps saying it's solely a missing person case (versus kidnapping, abduction, homicide, etc.). It may be that HCSO's CI division just happens to be the dept that handles missing persons cases, because it's a relatively small SO. I have no idea. I couldn't find anything on their website.

Since they're assisting, rather than lead, I'm kinda thinking that their role may be to rule out kidnapping/abduction/homicide, seek evidence for any of them, and to stand ready for action should evidence of foul play surface. Again, I just don't know.

LE has not announced a criminal investigation, and they keep saying it's a missing person case, even on May 17 when HCSO joined the team. And after that, on May 24, LE said there's a 50/50 chance Gail is alive.

I dunno. It's like a ping pong game goin' on in my head on what the heck happened here, and there are several scenarios that seem viable, based on the info currently available.

 

[JBean]

Beane, I will find the link, but at some point,LE said the case was being handled by the Criminal investigations unit.

[FONT=&quot;Verdana,]Sheriff&#8217;s Department Joins Search For Missing Signal Woman; Her Husband On Administrative Leave [/FONT]
>>Criminal investigators with the Hamilton County Sheriff&#8217;s Department have joined Signal Mountain Police in the search for a woman who has been missing since April 30, HCSD spokeswoman Janice Atkinson said Tuesday during a press conference. <<

http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_201456.asp

 

[Melodie]

I've lived in Chattanooga all my life ~ was born and raised here, and it's a great place.

And when people say there is a high crime rate, that is true, but it is also true for most cities of over 100,000 people all over the country, no matter where you are.

It's easy to blame crime on downtown gang violence or low-income people or hillbillies in the deep dark woods, and I guess that's to be expected.

However, crime statistics also include suburban domestic violence, and if anyone reads the booking reports on the Chattanoogan you will see lots of those.

The divorce rate is also high, and many people get restraining orders against their nearest and dearest.

And those things happen all over town and in some of the best parts of town regardless of income, education, hillbilly-ness, state of origin, or whatever.

And just because someone disappeared under bizarre circumstances in the middle of a sunny Saturday doesn't necessarily mean there is danger lurking around every corner. GP is someone who was having problems in her life before she disappeared, and I'm glad the police are still working the case from that angle instead of assuming that all danger comes from some outside source.

Sorry, I just felt I had to say that. :twocents:

Sorry, I may have to clarify my 2 previous posts. I have lived in this area most of my life as well. I have lived in Marion, McMinn and Hamilton counties. I felt the need to address the issue I have seen mentioned several times regarding the possibility that Gail might have been the victim of a stranger abduction or carjacking here. I wanted to say that I felt that was unlikely in this area. It is pretty safe in this whole area for a woman to drive around alone and not ever have to worry about that type of crime. It is very rare. I added the other crime statistics because they are very high in Chattanooga and I didn't want someone to come back with that, if I just said the part about the abduction/carjacking risk being low. The last time I researched crime stats in Chatt., I believe the Chattanooga area was listed at #11 nationwide for violent crimes and robberies, once again, that is based on population. And yes, you are very correct that there are plenty of suburban crimes, as well. Now, I mentioned the movie Deliverance, not in reference to "hillbillies", that is not what I meant. I was referring to the terrain. I am not the least bit worried about the scary characters in that movie getting ahold of me or Gail. My point was, that movie showed some very isolated mountainous areas where anything could be hidden, such as a vehicle, without being found. Some of the scenery in that movie could very easily have been shot right around here. That is all I meant, sorry if I wasn't clear. I certainly would never bash Chattanooga. It is my home and has been for a long time and my family lives here. Unfortunately, the crime stats are what they are, but we love it here and feel safe all the time.

 

[BeanE]

Beane, I will find the link, but at some point,LE said the case was being handled by the Criminal investigations unit.

[FONT=&quot;Verdana,]Sheriff&#8217;s Department Joins Search For Missing Signal Woman; Her Husband On Administrative Leave [/FONT]
>>Criminal investigators with the Hamilton County Sheriff&#8217;s Department have joined Signal Mountain Police in the search for a woman who has been missing since April 30, HCSD spokeswoman Janice Atkinson said Tuesday during a press conference. <<

http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_201456.asp

My understanding is that HCSO joined, teamed with, is assisting SMPD, and that SMPD remains lead.

A reporter, Callie Starnes of WRCB even thought for a short while on the press conference day, May 17, when it was announced, that HCSO was taking the lead, but she then found out differently, and went back and was careful to correct that in two different places.

I haven't seen anything stating that HCSO has taken over as lead. The article you cite states 'joined'.

ETA: I've got my website torn open atm doing some updates. If you can give me a few to finish that up, I'll grab the Callie Starn stuff I'm referring to.

 

[Pearl*]

As for cell service, it's definately patchy in places. And that means it's likely your GPS will be as well, if it's connected to your Sirius system I believe.

Were we ever sure which carrier she used for the cell phone service? And did she and Matt use the same carrier?

 

[JBean]

My understanding is that HCSO joined, teamed with, is assisting SMPD, and that SMPD remains lead.

A reporter, Callie Starnes of WRCB even thought for a short while on the press conference day, May 17, when it was announced, that HCSO was taking the lead, but she then found out differently, and went back and was careful to correct that in two different places.

I haven't seen anything stating that HCSO has taken over as lead. The article you cite states 'joined'.

ETA: I've got my website torn open atm doing some updates. If you can give me a few to finish that up, I'll grab the Callie Starn stuff I'm referring to.

Oh I totally agree with you, I am not referring to lead. I am just making sure you know that this is being handled by the Criminal Investigations unit on the HCSO side. So, while it is a missing persons case, it is being jointly investigated by the criminal unit as a potential criminal case.
Of this, I am quite sure

 

[Pearl*]

Very boring!!! That is one of the reasons I moved to FL :crazy:

Really? I like boring! And honestly, I think most people who live up here like a certain brand of "peace" or else would move away.

And I think that relates strongly to the perceptions some people have, that people on the mountain are indifferent to this case. I don't think they are indifferent as much as uncomfortable with some of the approaches being used to try to gather information. When pushed, some people pull back.

What we have right now is some very outspoken types, who are operating in a way that goes against the grain of what I dare say most people up here are comfortable with.

Not that one way is better than another. But in this particular case, discretion may be more effective because of where we're trying to find our witnesses.

 

[BeanE]

Oh I totally agree with you, I am not referring to lead. I am just making sure you know that this is being handled by the Criminal Investigations unit on the HCSO side. So, while it is a missing persons case, it is being jointly investigated by the criminal unit as a potential criminal case.
Of this, I am quite sure

Ah okay yes I mentioned that several times in my post. I do understand.

 

[believe09]

Synopsis of the text and the follow up phone call as I understand it-AD was out interviewing people, the lead detective not only texted her to stop but followed up with a phone call.

Am I the only one who finds this NBD? She was interfering with the investigation. He wanted her to stop. She hasnt, and I guess we will see what kind of case is left. SMM cannot protect her from any consequences of her actions, regardless of AD's motivation. I realize she misses her friend. She is not the only one who is looking for her, she is not the only one who cares about her, and Gail's immediate biological family is handling it by working with LE. I dont get why their wishes should not be respected.

 

[BeanE]

Referring to my post above, here's the Callie Starnes stuff I was referring to:

Press release from Ham. Co. Sheriff's Office confirms what we've known for a few days, it is teaming up w/ Sig. Mtn. PD on Palmgren case.
17 May 12:29pm Callie Starnes
http://twitter.com/#!/calliestarnes/statuses/70526309008289792
(This is just after Callie's arrival at the press conference. She tweeted a lot that day, and there are more tweets in the tweet archive where you can catch them and also her TwitCasting recording raw of the whole press conference and Q&A afterwards)

Press release handed out confirming Ham. Co. is now leading investigation. No leads, asking for public's help finding Gail Palmgren.
17 May 2:02pm Callie Starnes
http://twitter.com/#!/calliestarnes/statuses/70549679854718976
(This is Callie's erroneous tweet)

Need to correct a tweet. HCSO is assisting SMPD in the #missingmom case. They haven't taken over case. http://bit.ly/m2hFvO
17 May 2:55pm WRCB
http://twitter.com/#!/WRCB/status/70563169688494081
(Here Callie posts the correction. Callie uses TweetDeck to tweet as both herself and as WRCB. Most reporters who tweet use it.)

Need to correct a tweet. HCSO is assisting SMPD in the #missingmom case. They haven't taken over case.
Tuesday, May 17, 2011, 14:55:45
http://www.wrcbtv.com/global/story.asp?s=14661367
(Here Callie posted the correction to the WRCB website)

Gail's tweet archive:
http://keepstream.com/CaseSignal/gail-palmgren-case-tweet-archive

 

[lalalu]

Synopsis of the text and the follow up phone call as I understand it-AD was out interviewing people, the lead detective not only texted her to stop but followed up with a phone call..

Although I am reluctant to criticize AD as I believe she is genuine and I would guess she knows no other way to handle the situation - she does not seem to have much self insight - she forges ahead with what she perceives as the right plan.

I was thinking from her statements that she may have already had a texting relationship w/ Tizzio. She noted that she knew who it was when he sent the text. The Tizzio text may have been in response to a text she sent him regarding something she had just done that he thought was out of line. I don't really know - just speculating.

 

[Pearl*]

I wondered about communication with her PI too. If Matt was reviewing her text messages every night, then it wouldn't have been wise for her to be texting with the PI. I wonder if she had another throwaway cell phone she could use to send and receive texts that Matt wouldn't see.

TBH, I'm also wondering if Matt really was reviewing her text messages every night. I mean, was she handing him her cell every night, and then he'd review and delete messages, and then hand it back to her? Or how did that go? It's just hard for me to envision.

I'm wondering if it might be that Gail was missing a few messages, and said "Wow I wonder if Matt's gotten hold of my cell and deleted them!", and it kind of grew from there.

I need to listen to both of Arlene's interviews again - I've just been putting it off.

Well...the way you do it with a teenager is wait for them to be asleep or in the shower. Then you go through the stuff.

Then you get on the computer and look at the account activity, which gives you date, time, and phone numbers of exchanges as recent as the day before. This also tells whether it was text or picture message. Then you know if stuff has been deleted, as well as the who and when of the message, although not the content of the message.

For phone calls, you also have the duration of calls on the activity log. As well as the city they were made from/to.

See? Surveillance really isn't that hard. And you DON'T need a PI for anything I'm describing. For landlines, phones can be tapped from either inside the house, under the house, or from the interface box that is attached to the side of the house. People would be wise to padlock those. The phone company has a different point of access, and they don't mind the padlock. Likewise, to cut landline phone access to the home, all you have to do is open that interface box and unplug the little plug from the jack, which looks identical to the plugs and jacks in your home. Then close the box.

Caller ID boxes giving time, date, duration, and phone number of both incoming AND OUTGOING calls are readily available for purchase online.

And all that technology has been available for 5-10 years at least. I'm sure there's a lot more out there now. Such as all that spyware that is designed for parents to use in monitoring what their children do. And...in Tennessee, unless the law has changed, it's NOT illegal to tap a phone call as long as the person who tapped the phone is one of the parties of the conversation. And the recording is admissable in court. I don't know if it matters who technically owns the phone account.

Over the years, I've been amazed at what I've seen some very smart women able to do on their own, with minimal expense. Not a single tactic I have described is speculation. I've seen each of them used successfully.

For texting with the PI, it could either be a throwaway or a borrowed phone. EVERYBODY has phones that text nowadays, and I can tell you for a FACT that the way a teenager gets around having a cell phone confiscated is to use a friend's phone.

 

[BeanE]

Well...the way you do it with a teenager is wait for them to be asleep or in the shower. Then you go through the stuff.

Then you get on the computer and look at the account activity, which gives you date, time, and phone numbers of exchanges as recent as the day before. This also tells whether it was text or picture message. Then you know if stuff has been deleted, as well as the who and when of the message, although not the content of the message.

For phone calls, you also have the duration of calls on the activity log. As well as the city they were made from/to.

See? Surveillance really isn't that hard. And you DON'T need a PI for anything I'm describing. For landlines, phones can be tapped from either inside the house, under the house, or from the interface box that is attached to the side of the house. People would be wise to padlock those. The phone company has a different point of access, and they don't mind the padlock. Likewise, to cut landline phone access to the home, all you have to do is open that interface box and unplug the little plug from the jack, which looks identical to the plugs and jacks in your home. Then close the box.

Caller ID boxes giving time, date, duration, and phone number of both incoming AND OUTGOING calls are readily available for purchase online.

And all that technology has been available for 5-10 years at least. I'm sure there's a lot more out there now. Such as all that spyware that is designed for parents to use in monitoring what their children do. And...in Tennessee, unless the law has changed, it's NOT illegal to tap a phone call as long as the person who tapped the phone is one of the parties of the conversation. And the recording is admissable in court. I don't know if it matters who technically owns the phone account.

Over the years, I've been amazed at what I've seen some very smart women able to do on their own, with minimal expense. Not a single tactic I have described is speculation. I've seen each of them used successfully.

For texting with the PI, it could either be a throwaway or a borrowed phone. EVERYBODY has phones that text nowadays, and I can tell you for a FACT that the way a teenager gets around having a cell phone confiscated is to use a friend's phone.

But if Matt was doing it while Gail was in the shower, how would Gail have known about it? If I'm not mistaken, Arlene said this was an every night thing. How would Gail know it was every night, unless it was done openly?

BBM. I don't have a phone that texts. Never have. Never will. I also have a dear friend who has never ever had an answering machine or voice mail. And another friend who has never ever had a microwave. We are very, very old. :floorlaugh:

 

[Melodie]

Synopsis of the text and the follow up phone call as I understand it-AD was out interviewing people, the lead detective not only texted her to stop but followed up with a phone call.

Am I the only one who finds this NBD? She was interfering with the investigation. He wanted her to stop. She hasnt, and I guess we will see what kind of case is left. SMM cannot protect her from any consequences of her actions, regardless of AD's motivation. I realize she misses her friend. She is not the only one who is looking for her, she is not the only one who cares about her, and Gail's immediate biological family is handling it by working with LE. I dont get why their wishes should not be respected.

I am not defending her, but maybe after talking to LE she has lost confidence? We are not privy to the conversations between them other than knowing about the text/phone call. I have seen mentioned in numerous MSM articles that the reason LE has given since the beginning of this case to questions about why they aren't doing this or why they aren't doing that by not only AD, but others, is that they have no evidence that a crime was committed. This is the answer that has been given by LE for why they could not search the properties sooner. If they are repeatedly telling her that their hands are tied because of this, maybe she is trying to get some evidence so that they can do more. Maybe she wants to keep the story out there in the hopes that a witness will come forward after hearing her talk. Like I said, I'm not defending her. I don't know her. I just try to put myself in her shoes. What would I do if my friend were missing and I had all the information she has? I feel pretty certain I would find it very hard to sit at home and wait, with each week passing, wondering if there was something I could do or say to help. I think it would be very difficult. JMHO. Add MSM Link
Here is the link from the Chattanooga Times Free Press that mentions the quote about the reason for the delay in searching the properties.
http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2011/jun/24/police-search-palmgren-house/

 

[Pearl*]

But if Matt was doing it while Gail was in the shower, how would Gail have known about it? If I'm not mistaken, Arlene said this was an every night thing. How would Gail know it was every night, unless it was done openly?BBM.

I don't have a phone that texts. Never have. Never will. I also have a dear friend who has never ever had an answering machine or voice mail. And another friend who has never ever had a microwave. We are very, very old. :floorlaugh:

Well, like you said, she would have known if messages were missing daily. And she MIGHT have just let it go on and told friends not to send anything sensitive. That way, she wouldn't have let him know she figured out he was doing stuff.

I was slow to get into texting too. But it really is invaluable if you need to zip a quick message to somebody when you're in a place where it would be awkward to step out to make a call. Like for a teenager to text a parent at work to just say, "I'm home." That way, the parent doesn't get one of those "personal phone calls" that some employers frown upon.

I bet if you give it a try, you'll find plenty of good uses for it.

ETA: I wonder if it's possible to buy a cell phone nowadays that doesn't have texting capability? I know the feature can be blocked by the account holder but not sure there are still phones that can't text. Or that can't take pictures....

I'd love to go have dinner with your friend who's never owned a microwave. I bet it's DELICIOUS!

 

[Oriah]

But if Matt was doing it while Gail was in the shower, how would Gail have known about it? If I'm not mistaken, Arlene said this was an every night thing. How would Gail know it was every night, unless it was done openly?

BBM. I don't have a phone that texts. Never have. Never will. I also have a dear friend who has never ever had an answering machine or voice mail. And another friend who has never ever had a microwave. We are very, very old. :floorlaugh:

Lol, I don't know how old you are BeanE, but I think there is quite a bit of truth to both positions.

I believe the Blackberries owned by both Gail and Matt were with a Verizon plan. And email (from any source) can be programmed and unprogrammed on a Blackberry 3G or higher. Don't try it with an AT&T in the area... Thus my tower hunt!

Now as for an offshoot of that, as for texting....is it possible that Gail and/or Matt was receiving or recovering email data from one anothers' phones? I think that is very likely- so every source of outside info was known by the other party. Does that make any sense, or am I just confusing everyone, lol?!

 

[JBean]

Ah okay yes I mentioned that several times in my post. I do understand.

To further clarify, I was trying settle any confusion that this is not being treated as a criminal investigation. I promise you it is. I just said it poorly and my apologies for that.

 

[JBean]

I'm so glad that was finally confirmed by JBean (in another post) so we can SAY it without calling it "rumor." I felt confident after hearing the detail that phone conversations followed, that the text was truly from Tizzio, but I didn't ever see it stated in a place where I thought rules allowed us to call it "fact."

I would ask the question as to whether Sleuthy has been "verified" enough for us not to have to jump through these hoops again. I have the impression that she always provides reliable information. Do we have to call it "rumor" if we haven't seen it in MSM, or are reports from "verified people" an exception?

Thanks, Sleuthy.

Totally depends on the statements made. Sleuthy saw the message and I know from other means that is was actually sent. So, this would be a fact.