TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #7

[Oriah]

I think asking CC to post her flyer or distribute it in some fashion is a great idea.

I know everyone wants to find Gail-but one thing to consider is whether or not Gail wants to be found. IF she is out and about, she appears to have some very good reasons for disappearing. We want to make sure we are not crossing a line and outing a woman who does not want to be found. For example-I would not suggest attending AlAnon meetings or AA meetings in an attempt to find out if she voluntarily disappeared.

I am not saying anyone would do that....everyone here clearly has their heart in the right place.

JMO-but we have to balance our quest for information... ((hugs))

believe09- I agree. At this point, I think the best way to approach the situation is to rule out an accident. JMO, of course.

 

[Oriah]

My confusion is around her factory installed GPS. There should have been a log of her last "requests" or location if it was running. LE and/or family should have been able to obtain this information. I am uncertain how long the logs are kept at the manufacturer...I know with OnStar, a different type of service that works in a similar fashion, LE and family were able to obtain the logs even though initially OnStar said they do not keep them. This occurred in another case, but was instrumental to finding the missing woman.

As for the possibility that there was a PI installed GPS, like one that was allegedly installed on MP's car, I havent seen anything concrete indicating that this was going on. Was it established that MP had hired a PI prior to his current one? Perhaps this was the person who was "watching" her??

Yes, LE should have been able to access this. :waitasec:

A PI (or whomever) would have been able to install an easily removed GPS. However- factory installed in a vehicle- not so easy to remove- sometimes impossible; and also should be able to track IF still active and not damaged. Also, if there were other devices utilizing wi-fi in the vehicle- there would be a log for those as well.
Kwim?

 

[Oriah]

How long will it ping after the car is turned off? Or does that vary by manufacturer? I know OnStar from another case pings only for a very short time.

Hmm. Not sure. But here is an interesting note:
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/07/21/onstar-announces-remote-ignition-block-for-stolen-vehicles/

OnStar is expanding on its Stolen Vehicle Assistance services with the announcement of a new technology that will give law enforcement another critical tool to help safely and quickly recover subscribers stolen vehicles.

This new technology is called Remote Ignition Block and will allow an OnStar Advisor to send a remote signal to a subscriber's stolen vehicle to prevent the vehicle from restarting once the ignition is turned off. This capability will not only help authorities recover stolen vehicles, but can also prevent dangerous high speed pursuits from starting.

"Remote Ignition Block is a prime example of the rapid pace of technological innovation underway at OnStar. We are developing services desired by our subscribers that deliver important societal benefits as well," said Chet Huber, OnStar president.

Remote Ignition Block builds on OnStar's growing suite of Stolen Vehicle Assistance services which includes GPS technology that pinpoints a stolen vehicle's exact location and Stolen Vehicle Slowdown® which can remotely slow a stolen vehicle to idle speed.

OnStar will make Remote Ignition Block available on select over 2M GM 2009 and 2010 model year vehicles in the U.S. and Canada.

 

[KariKae]

Here is what I know about GPS. I work for a company with fleet vehicles with installed GPS. We were told the company would monitor our activities via the GPS. A few people decided they would circumvent the policy. Some kept their GPS devices turned off. A few other went as far as to disconnect the GPS. These individuals went about their day doing personal business on company time, thinking they were safe since the GPS was turned off or disconnected.

What they didn't know - While the company could not track them with the GPS turned off or disconnected, the information is stored. Once they turned on the GPS is turned back on or reconnected, all of the saved data is sent to the device in the car. The company could tell where they had been even though the device is turned off. So, either the device or the satellite is pinging.

However, in the thick wooded area or underwater, there may be no pings.

 

[DewSeeker]

http:///viewArticle.action?articleId=281474979676963

Human Remains Discovered in Tennessee

Haven't been following GP's case closely, but noticed this is about an hour away.

 

[BeanE]

http:///viewArticle.action?articleId=281474979676963

Human Remains Discovered in Tennessee

Haven't been following GP's case closely, but noticed this is about an hour away.

If it's Cumberland County, it's a male, late 20s, early 30s
http://www.wate.com/story/15103617/cumberland-county-woman-says-human-remains-belong-to-fiance

 

[Oriah]

Here is what I know about GPS. I work for a company with fleet vehicles with installed GPS. We were told the company would monitor our activities via the GPS. A few people decided they would circumvent the policy. Some kept their GPS devices turned off. A few other went as far as to disconnect the GPS. These individuals went about their day doing personal business on company time, thinking they were safe since the GPS was turned off or disconnected.

What they didn't know - While the company could not track them with the GPS turned off or disconnected, the information is stored. Once they turned on the GPS is turned back on or reconnected, all of the saved data is sent to the device in the car. The company could tell where they had been even though the device is turned off. So, either the device or the satellite is pinging.

However, in the thick wooded area or underwater, there may be no pings.[/quote]

Yep. Thank you KariKae for explaining!

 

[hollyblue]

I don't see any indication of Gail wanting LE to be part of a ruse? I'm not sure what you mean, holly.

I didn't see any recommendations in what I read to call LE, and I'd be surprised to find them as well.

So far as why did Gail get Diane to call LE on the 30th if she was planning on leaving - I'm not sure that when Gail called Diane to ask her to call LE that she'd already made up her mind to leave that day, rather than wait until school let out as she'd planned.

In fact, I tend to think more that, if she left willingly, whether to commit suicide or to start a new life, her final decision to leave on that day, was made after her conversations with Diane and LE.

I was responding to your theory of GP researching a way to self disappear....and if so, then questioned why would she bother to call LE. Now your saying her disappearance wasn't or could not have been researched because it was an imprompt to leaving? Sorry, Bean I'm a bit confused or your exact theory here. ????:waitasec:

 

[hollyblue]

Ah, I see.

But this is my curiosity regarding any other phones and/or devices that may have pinged from somewhere- along a route Gail may have taken. And I just don't get how the factory-installed GPS could have been easily removed. :waitasec:

Perhaps we should look at service records for the Jeep?

ETA- if anyone in the vehicle were utilizing this function either during the trip to AL or back... it would ping off of a tower somewhere. Thus my concern. Kwim?

ETA again- do we know what devices may have been in Gail's Jeep when it disappeared? For example, did anyone use a video or game system that might be in the vehicle?

<An in-car router that connects any Wi-Fi-enabled device to the Internet at
3G broadband speeds, allowing multiple passengers to surf the Web and social networks, look
up directions, check eMail, or download music. Uconnect Web is an Authentic Jeep Accessory>

I am not familiar with all of these options your speaking of, but do we know for certain that Gail's Rubicon did in fact have this option installed on her vehicle.? The reason I ask, is because I thought a separate--(old) non factory GPS was the item given to AD and the new GPS Gail had was also a non factory installation. I say this because AD made mention she was with Gail when she purchased it. ???

 

[Snowbunny]

It seems like that would be the case, Bean.
But I get a little hung up here as well. What about the GPS (s)? And especially the one installed by the manufactuer on Gail's Jeep?

Was it disabled? Malfuctioning? Destroyed?
Hmm. I am perplexed again.

I can see how tossing a cell phone would end with the last known ping.

But I can't figure out how a GPS installed on a vehicle would not ping - unless damaged. Kwim?

I thought there was a big discussion that Arlene stated there was no GPS on Gail's vehicle?

 

[hollyblue]

BBM
I can’t speak for Hollyblue but I think she is saying if Gail had read the books you had listed in your post and planned her disappearance would she have involved the LE or would the books have suggested she involve them. I also thought your post re the books was suggesting that she could have planned her disappearance easily with so much information readily available :innocent:



BBM
If as you indicate now that she didn’t decide until she got back to Signal Mountain she was going to up and leave I don’t think she said bugger this <-(please note this is a Aussie slang expression that is not offensive) I am going to run away, Googled how to disappear without a trace or popped into the nearest library and read up on how to get rid of your past life and a big red Jeep 101.

If I am wrong Hollyblue you can send me a note telling me I was wrong and BeanE you can just keep adding colours to your brilliant mindmap to worry and confuse me even more.:grouphug:

You nailed it. BTW, I don't mind Aussie spelling or English spelling --either. I get a kick out of reading both...you or Clive. :rocker:

 

[confused]

I was responding to your theory of GP researching a way to self disappear....and if so, then questioned why would she bother to call LE. Now your saying her disappearance wasn't or could not have been researched because it was an imprompt to leaving? Sorry, Bean I'm a bit confused or your exact theory here. ????:waitasec:

i think what BeanE was saying was that Gail may have been planning on disappearing after school was out and planning to take the kids with her. (There does seem to be lots of info out there on the web about doing so.). BUT, something that occurred or was said during those calls on the 30th prompted Gail to go ahead with the plan. BeanE didn't say what, but I wonder if Diane or LE didn't seem (to Gail) to take her seriously. Or possibly, she decided to tell the kids about the coming divorce and one or both of them stated they wanted to stay with dad.

BeanE, if that's not what you meant, please correct me, but that's what I got from your post.

 

[hollyblue]

Hmm. Not sure. But here is an interesting note:
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/07/21/onstar-announces-remote-ignition-block-for-stolen-vehicles/

OnStar is expanding on its Stolen Vehicle Assistance services with the announcement of a new technology that will give law enforcement another critical tool to help safely and quickly recover subscribers stolen vehicles.

This new technology is called Remote Ignition Block and will allow an OnStar Advisor to send a remote signal to a subscriber's stolen vehicle to prevent the vehicle from restarting once the ignition is turned off. This capability will not only help authorities recover stolen vehicles, but can also prevent dangerous high speed pursuits from starting.

"Remote Ignition Block is a prime example of the rapid pace of technological innovation underway at OnStar. We are developing services desired by our subscribers that deliver important societal benefits as well," said Chet Huber, OnStar president.

Remote Ignition Block builds on OnStar's growing suite of Stolen Vehicle Assistance services which includes GPS technology that pinpoints a stolen vehicle's exact location and Stolen Vehicle Slowdown® which can remotely slow a stolen vehicle to idle speed.

OnStar will make Remote Ignition Block available on select over 2M GM 2009 and 2010 model year vehicles in the U.S. and Canada.

Good to know...now did Gail's Rubicon have this option? Could someone have called and reported the vehicle missing...or surely LE would be able to get that info? On the OnStar...I believe the cut off time for "reception" is 48 hours after the vehicle is keyed off.

 

[BeanE]

Susan Murphy Milano interview of Arlene Durham
June 16

Blackbox/GPS removal from Jeep and getting the new GPS discussion starts at 52:08

Just a little bit said at that point, then more discussion starts at about 54:00

 

[Annie_61]

No, I don't mean that she got home on the 30th and then suddenly googled and decided to disappear.

I mentioned about how she had already been planning to leave after school let out.

I was suggesting the possibly that, after those phone calls, she may have decided to enact her plan right then and there, instead of waiting until school let out, and with a variation - not taking the kids.

Ok now I am with you, that makes sense now.

Thanks for that BeanE

 

[BeanE]

Susan Murphy Milano interview of Arlene Durham
June 16

Blackbox/GPS discussion starts at 52:08

Paraphrased - just taking notes:

SMM: Box no longer on Jeep

SMM: Box is gone

Arlene: asked Matt where it was. He said it's somewhere in garage. Arlene said let me get serial #. He said he'd get it. She ain't seen it yet.

SMM: Why take out what was put in by manufacturer?

Arlene: It was a separate one. Arlene was with Gail when Gail bought it.

Arlene: says she's got the old one.

Arlene: Matt said then box must be somewhere in garage. Arlene said let me get serial #. He said he'd get it. She ain't seen it yet.

SMM: What about the GPS system on the car?

Arlene: According to what I understand no one can get it tracked.

Arlene starts talking about Gail's Blackberry.

I don't know if there's more than this. I can't listen to any more.

 

[hollyblue]

If it's Cumberland County, it's a male, late 20s, early 30s
http://www.wate.com/story/15103617/cumberland-county-woman-says-human-remains-belong-to-fiance

I don't know if we have two bodies are not. The first report said the body was found yesterday morning and the last article states an earlier date. ??

Someone had responded to one of Oriah's questions about possible routes out of Chatt and made mention of Crossville being right outside of I-40. This route travels pretty much the breadeth of the US and might be a possible route east to connect with I-95 northbound. Also, from this map it is a straight northern shot to Louisville using the "back" roads. See map:
http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=s...RwIdCG7j-ikR1VuzGgtpiDEy_XEgKLTT1A&mra=ls&z=7

 

[BeanE]

I don't know if we have two bodies are not. The first report said the body was found yesterday morning and the last article states an earlier date. ??

Both articles I've seen (in thread below) say the body was found Sunday morning.
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145147"]TN TN- Cumberland County- Human Remains Found By Hunters, July 19, 2011 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


There was a 63 year old woman's body found in Cumberland County Pennsylvania yesterday. Maybe that's your confusion?
Elizabeth Wood
http://www.westport-news.com/news/article/Body-of-woman-found-in-Pa-car-trunk-ID-d-1471914.php

 

[hollyblue]

Both articles I've seen (in thread below) say the body was found Sunday morning.
TN TN- Cumberland County- Human Remains Found By Hunters, July 19, 2011 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


There was a 63 year old woman's body found in Cumberland County Pennsylvania yesterday. Maybe that's your confusion?
Elizabeth Wood
http://www.westport-news.com/news/article/Body-of-woman-found-in-Pa-car-trunk-ID-d-1471914.php

It's the same...a male.... I guess the first article had the wrong date. Sounds like the fiance never reported him missing to LE..?? Odd.

 

[believe09]

I am still confused bout the GPS discussion ans who had which one on which vehicle. I womder if I am confusing a tracking device with a satellite receiver for directions.