TN - Holly Bobo, 20, Darden, believed abducted 13 April 2011 - #22

[SunSoaker]

OK, I found a video that explains what happened in the Brooke Wilberger case. Yes, the abductor and murderer in that case had been stalking while in his vehicle, young women on the college campus and in another state prior to the murder of Brooke. Also said in this video, that a knife was held to Brooke at the very beginning of the abduction.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScHlYs1SBNE

True, he had been stalking from his vehicle. But, prior to his abduction of Brooke he had a very lengthy record of violent acts of sexual assault, including rape charges stemming back years and years.

From what we know of this RSO, he has never been charged with rape, and his previous crimes date back to more than 10 years ago. Thus far, his crimes show no pattern of escalation, Brooke's murderer had a very long, and clear pattern of escalation.

Please, do NOT misunderstand me, I'm in no way defending this RSO I'm just of the opinion that this is not his M.O. That is just my opinion and I'll leave it at that.

 

[BeanE]

The Cumberland doesn't come anywhere close to Decatur county. It starts in Southeast KY, flows southwesterly, loops briefly into Tennessee, through Nashville and back Northwest into Kentucky again and dumps into the Ohio Rivert. There's just no way for a body to start in Decatur County and end up in Nashville through the Cumberland water system.

I agree it couldn't happen with just the Cumberland river. If the body were placed in the water in/near Darden, it would have to start out in the Tennessee river.

This couple took a boat ride from Chattanooga to Nashville, and provided a map of their route along the Tennessee and Cumberland rivers.

http://kempter.com/tenriver/tenriver.htm

I have no idea what the differences are between how a boat and a body travel.

In any case, there's no reason why a person can't drive with a body to a point between Darden and Nashville, and place the body in the water, from which point the body ended up where it did.

Of course, there's no reason this poor person has to be Holly either, and I am praying he or she is not, although I feel terrible for whomever he or she is, and hope they can be laid to rest soon.

 

[concentric]

Nope, not misunderstanding SunSoaker. Thank you for your perspective. I just found an article detailing the past of the perp. in the Brooke Wilberger case.

It seems he did live in the Portland, OR area and was driving a company van from the place he worked at:http://www.gazettetimes.com/news/local/article_87c45ea4-a729-11de-bfd2-001cc4c03286.html

In the early 1990s, Courtney married. He and his wife had three children. For a time, they lived in the Albuquerque area.

In April 2004, they moved in with Courtney's brother- and sister-in-law in Portland.

Courtney's brother-in-law, Jesus Ordaz, convinced his employer to hire Courtney. Courtney started working for Creative Building Maintenance in May. The minivan that Courtney was driving when he abducted Brooke Wilberger belonged to CBS.

In June 2004, Courtney's wife left Oregon without him and returned to New Mexico. He showed up at the house two weeks later, and police were called for a domestic disturbance.

Courtney was arrested, but upon his release, he apparently moved in with his family in Rio Rancho, N. M. In November, he was arrested for raping and kidnapping a University of New Mexico student.
-----------------------
Also, another important point upon reading this above cited article:

About Courtney's history. According to this article, he didn't have much of a criminal history that was known until after-the-fact.

 

[OldSteve]

I find that HB's abduction reminds me more of the Molly Bish case than the Brooke Wilberger case...

 

[maskedwoman]

I would think that Mark's opinions are no less trustworthy than any other person who has worked in law enforcement for years and has a lot of experience under his belt. The fact that Fox pays him as a consultant has no bearing on what he thinks about any case. I doubt that Fox News tells him what to say. As far as Geraldo is concerned, his experience as an investigative reporter probably gives him more knowledge of criminology than the average person, but it hasn't improved his personality much, IMO.

As for your last paragraph, I don't think either of them are trying to tell the Bobos what to do... they are merely commenting about them not speaking out, just like so many on this and other boards have done over the past 3 weeks. That opinion is not new or unique... a lot of posters have expressed those same thoughts, just not on t.v.

Mark Furhman has done some good work on other cases, but I'm just not to comfortable about his remarks in this case. I understand and don't fully discount his reasoning but he based his position on a brief conversation with a 'dispatcher' at the TBI. The TBI is tasked with supporting local law enforcement, period. I am not even sure they have "dispatchers" as we think of them.

http://www.tbi.state.tn.us/contact_us/Phone_numbers.shtml

They have a number of hotline numbers for various specific things, but no "call this number to get TBI on the scene" type of number. I find it difficult to believe that the same TBI that won't even comfirm what kind of blood they found would let a "dispatcher" on the phone with anyone, much less the media. Just MOOOOO

 

[maskedwoman]

I agree it couldn't happen with just the Cumberland river. If the body were placed in the water in/near Darden, it would have to start out in the Tennessee river.

This couple took a boat ride from Chattanooga to Nashville, and provided a map of their route along the Tennessee and Cumberland rivers.

http://kempter.com/tenriver/tenriver.htm

I have no idea what the differences are between how a boat and a body travel.

In any case, there's no reason why a person can't drive with a body to a point between Darden and Nashville, and place the body in the water, from which point the body ended up where it did.

Of course, there's no reason this poor person has to be Holly either, and I am praying he or she is not, although I feel terrible for whomever he or she is, and hope they can be laid to rest soon.

Good point about the Tennessee River. I didn't look at how the Tennessee river and Cumberland connect because all those squiggles made my eyes cross, lol, but I did confirm that both rivers flow to the west. The Tennessee River begins in Knoxville and dumps into the Ohio River in Paducah Kentucky.

The primary difference between how a body and boat would move is fairly simple. A boat's motor can take it against the current at any time, for the entire journey. A body would have to flow with the current, which would take it continually westward in those rivers - albeit probably not at any kind of consistent pace. How far it goes would probably also depend on strength of currents and how long it took to float close enough to the shoreline to snag on something. So, to end up in the water in Nashville, a body would have to start out in Nashville or at a point Northeast of Nashville.

 

[concentric]

Just one more thing:

I remember making a post on another crime site at the time Brooke disappeared. News reports were that two young women were being stalked by a man in a green van on a college campus in OR. We were talking about whether these cases were related to Brooke's disappearance. I believe this was prior to LE receiving a tip that a man had seen a green van being driven erratically near the abduction scene. Anyway, I posted that I wondered if the man in the green van could have been working in maintenance on the buildings on or near campus, therefore having a stalking site.

I never knew until now, reading that article, that Courtney worked for a building maintenance company.
----
What relevance does this have to the case here? Just thinking about the young women being stalked by the SO. And also takes me back to thinking about the employment of the whoever the person is who abducted Holly.

OK, I will try not to keep comparing these cases. It could be a totally different scenario.

 

[Rallihanna]

Okay - trying to catch up but a bit confused.

Brooke is the person they located the body of? Has her perp been caught?

 

[liljim]

is there a place that has only confirmed facts from this case listed?

i keep losing track of what is truth and what is rumor.

is it correct to say that there is no confirmation of the following; people named as POI/suspect, people cleared as POI/suspect, polygraph administered/passed/refused ?

what items are confirmed found by LE ? lunch bag and one unspecified item?

is anything regarding the 911 call/calls confirmed by LE? do we know for sure that there were 2 calls? im fairly certain that it is not confirmed who made the calls.

 

[OldSteve]

A bit OT and just my rambling.... how many times on ID shows have we seen a family try to report a missing child or person, only to get the old, "sorry , we have to wait 48 hours before we can take your missing person report"...
At times, I find it so frustrating, I blurt out, "darn it, too bad they can't just tell LE they saw someone take their daughter (or whomever) - that would get LE moving!"
Of course, I do not really advocate doing this since it would be illegal, and could actually cause more harm then good...
So now we have a case where someone 'actually' does see the victim being abducted.... and much to my chagrin, the case seems to move no faster....

 

[BeanE]

Good point about the Tennessee River. I didn't look at how the Tennessee river and Cumberland connect because all those squiggles made my eyes cross, lol, but I did confirm that both rivers flow to the west. The Tennessee River begins in Knoxville and dumps into the Ohio River in Paducah Kentucky.

The primary difference between how a body and boat would move is fairly simple. A boat's motor can take it against the current at any time, for the entire journey. A body would have to flow with the current, which would take it continually westward in those rivers - albeit probably not at any kind of consistent pace. How far it goes would probably also depend on strength of currents and how long it took to float close enough to the shoreline to snag on something. So, to end up in the water in Nashville, a body would have to start out in Nashville or at a point Northeast of Nashville.

Thank you so much for that info. That makes perfect sense about the boat's motor and the currents of the rivers.

 

[Mr. Noatak]

is there a place that has only confirmed facts from this case listed?

i keep losing track of what is truth and what is rumor.

is it correct to say that there is no confirmation of the following; people named as POI/suspect, people cleared as POI/suspect, polygraph administered/passed/refused ?

what items are confirmed found by LE ? lunch bag and one unspecified item?

is anything regarding the 911 call/calls confirmed by LE? do we know for sure that there were 2 calls? im fairly certain that it is not confirmed who made the calls.

my opinions only, no facts here:

The discovery of Holly's lunchbox or bag and one upspecified "significant" item that may or may not be Hollys is widely reported. Two 911 calls are mentioned so often that there might be some truth to this assertion. It seems that the brother possibly made one of the calls but who made the second call is unknown, as well as what was said during either call. The reports of blood in the carport might be true, but blood on the lunchbox and the story of the neighbor hearing a scream are contradicted by some reports.

Frankly, all I use when analyzing this case is the location of the house, a road map, the location of prior search areas, and the purported locations of the two items found. To me, everything else is "white noise" at this point.

 

[Carla Lashelle]

There are two 911 calls made. One by the brother and one by an unidentified woman. The specifics of those calls like time, etc. have not been made public.

There are no known/named suspects/POIs. There is some anecdotal reporting that clint took a poly and passed, I believe in a statement tweeted by Hollys cousin Whitney.

LE has said several items have been found on different days. The last big find seems to have been Easter. Only the lunch bag is identified specifially. Some things like a strip of duct tape were found but there has been no confirmation of its relationship (or not) to the case.

is there a place that has only confirmed facts from this case listed?

i keep losing track of what is truth and what is rumor.

is it correct to say that there is no confirmation of the following; people named as POI/suspect, people cleared as POI/suspect, polygraph administered/passed/refused ?

what items are confirmed found by LE ? lunch bag and one unspecified item?

is anything regarding the 911 call/calls confirmed by LE? do we know for sure that there were 2 calls? im fairly certain that it is not confirmed who made the calls.

 

[CHARLISA]

Todays news

http://www.jacksonsun.com/article/20110508/NEWS01/105080323/1002/rss

http:///viewArticle.action?articleId=281474979303643

Did you notice that under the photo, they listed the caption as Holly & Clint?

 

[Carla Lashelle]

Did you notice that under the photo, they listed the caption as Holly & Clint?

Yes was mentioned earlier this morning. Its Holly and her b/f... old photo. Been around online now with the case for nearly a month.

 

[norest4thewicked]

If every investigator or law enforcement officer took the tactic that victim's families cannot be questioned, then we would have many more crimes left unsolved. Investigators are trained to look at the closest solution first and, in doing so, often become very rigorous in their examination of the family. They do have a right to question what the family members did leading up to and around the time of the crime....as well as what they saw. After years of experience, these investigators become very keen on any loophole or area of deception.
Simply questioning does not mean that they are implying guilt to anyone. Its the nature of any sleuth to go directly to areas that might seem out of the ordinary.

You completely missed my point. Of course investigators and all factions of LE has the right to question families. It would be ridiculous if they didn't. However, neither Mark Furman or Geraldo Rivera are NOT investigators at this time...they are basically TV personalities, and therefore, do not have a right to question what anyone does in a case such as this.

 

[CHARLISA]

Just one more thing:

I remember making a post on another crime site at the time Brooke disappeared. News reports were that two young women were being stalked by a man in a green van on a college campus in OR. We were talking about whether these cases were related to Brooke's disappearance. I believe this was prior to LE receiving a tip that a man had seen a green van being driven erratically near the abduction scene. Anyway, I posted that I wondered if the man in the green van could have been working in maintenance on the buildings on or near campus, therefore having a stalking site.

I never knew until now, reading that article, that Courtney worked for a building maintenance company.
----
What relevance does this have to the case here? Just thinking about the young women being stalked by the SO. And also takes me back to thinking about the employment of the whoever the person is who abducted Holly.

OK, I will try not to keep comparing these cases. It could be a totally different scenario.

I understand exactly where you are going. In so many documented serial cases, the perp drove alot. Truck drivers, repairmen, etc., which gave them plenty of resources & time to stalk out victims. In fact, most serial killers are nomads and many times after they were caught, receipts helped narrow down where they were at such & such a time pertaining to the crime. When they arrested Ted Bundy his gas receipts cooked his goose.

Traveling allows them to observe and stake out who they want to zero in on. Then they can just follow there schedule and pick a time that is vulnerable to the victim. That Courtney guy in the Brooke Wilberger case was driving around and stalking two other girls earlier in the morning he abducted & killed Brooke. They didn't buy his ruse & approach his van (Thank God), so he went after Brooke.

 

[norest4thewicked]

The Cumberland doesn't come anywhere close to Decatur county. It starts in Southeast KY, flows southwesterly, loops briefly into Tennessee, through Nashville and back Northwest into Kentucky again and dumps into the Ohio Rivert. There's just no way for a body to start in Decatur County and end up in Nashville through the Cumberland water system.

Yes...but it's not that far of a drive, and if someone wanted to get a body to disappear, Nashville is a pretty good place. I'm not saying this happened, and God knows I don't want it to happen, but in doing this, a perp closer to Decatur county could cast less doubt on themselves, if they were so inclined.

 

[shefner]

You completely missed my point. Of course investigators and all factions of LE has the right to question families. It would be ridiculous if they didn't. However, neither Mark Furman or Geraldo Rivera are NOT investigators at this time...they are basically TV personalities, and therefore, do not have a right to question what anyone does in a case such as this.

I guess they are there to offer the views of those who would be investigators, otherwise their appearance on these shows would be pointless. So acting as those who would be looking into a crime, they offer questions and views that seem relevant to them.

 

[OldSteve]

Searching for news -
"Search for Holly Bobo Continues on Mothers Day"

http:///viewArticle.action?articleId=281474979303643