TN - Holly Bobo, 20, Darden, believed abducted 13 April 2011 - #30

[Oriah]

Oriah,

I know you are involved in SAR, and you have a great deal of experience with these types of cases. Your opinion, popular or not, would be greatly appreciated. For me, Clint's silence in the beginning of this case was a catalyst for much of the speculation surrounding this case. It has been like pulling teeth to get any kind of cohesive explanation for the events of that day.

Seems to me it should have been one witness, one story, one time. Why in the world would they keep him hidden and silent for 3 months?:sigh:

I am, and I do. I'm also an eternal optimist as well as a very seasoned cynic.
My opinion on Holly's case embodies all of those characteristics.

I think confusion on the part of family, first responders, and LE; poor reporting, ignorance, and prejudice is what has dominated this case. None of which I think will help bring Holly home.

I think from a 'sleuthing' standpoint, it might be a productive approach to try and flip the coin, and approach it from the other side entirely. Doesn't matter if one believes otherwise, or is firmly set in their opinion of what they *think* happened- it just matters that it is a very good investigative approach to take when stumped by confusing timelines, misinformation, conflicting media reports, etc.

I'd analyze it from the standpoint of Clint, Drew, Holly's mom and dad, extended family, neighbors, community, and LE as being completely innocent in this abduction.

Take every statement made, every article written, and every media interview given and turn it on its' back. Can it hurt? No. Can it help? Maybe. We might be surprised what we learn from that.

 

[Plumeria5]

Edited for comment by RUK:

"Because it is the call that is necessary to establish there is a problem"

I think it was the:scream:that actually set things in motion.
Neighbor calls school about scream--that is what signals a problem.

....and I soooooo agree--"release the 911 tapes"--it could ONLY help, we can't be any more confused than we already are.

Had there not been a scream would Clint still have been "asleep" when the police got there? Then there would have been no witness account to have to give.

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

I can't decide what classification this would fall under.... oversimplifying or undercomplicating.

TxL...Who 's commrnt are you referring to? Not understanding this.

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

BBM:
I do. But it's not a 'popular' opinion. It's just a composite, based on experience with a lot of missing person cases.

I am, and I do. I'm also an eternal optimist as well as a very seasoned cynic.
My opinion on Holly's case embodies all of those characteristics.

I think confusion on the part of family, first responders, and LE; poor reporting, ignorance, and prejudice is what has dominated this case. None of which I think will help bring Holly home.

I think from a 'sleuthing' standpoint, it might be a productive approach to try and flip the coin, and approach it from the other side entirely. Doesn't matter if one believes otherwise, or is firmly set in their opinion of what they *think* happened- it just matters that it is a very good investigative approach to take when stumped by confusing timelines, misinformation, conflicting media reports, etc.

I'd analyze it from the standpoint of Clint, Drew, Holly's mom and dad, extended family, neighbors, community, and LE as being completely innocent in this abduction.

Take every statement made, every article written, and every media interview given and turn it on its' back. Can it hurt? No. Can it help? Maybe. We might be surprised what we learn from that.

Ok, so I must be really dense lately. I just cannot seem to understand the meaning of comments these day's.

Forgive me, Oriah--The above post was your answer to my question?
"Does anyone else feel there was a reason for Clint not being seen or heard from for 3 months?"
You stated you did have an opinion , but it was" not popular". Your above comment addressed many of your beliefs about this case but did I miss your answer as to why Clint was not seen or heard from in 3 months?

....and I am not sure I understand what you mean by "turn every statement,article written, and media interview on it's back"....and do what??

I think I do get the fact that you are of the opinion that this may have been a "stranger abduction", since you seem to feel immediate family and friends are not involved, correct?
I am really very interested in your opinion about Clint's 3 month silence, because of your experience in missing person cases. Maybe it's me? Am I making sense?

 

[Oriah]

Ok, so I must be really dense lately. I just cannot seem to understand the meaning of comments these day's.

Forgive me, Oriah--The above post was your answer to my question?
"Does anyone else feel there was a reason for Clint not being seen or heard from for 3 months?"
You stated you did have an opinion , but it was" not popular". Your above comment addressed many of your beliefs about this case but did I miss your answer as to why Clint was not seen or heard from in 3 months?

....and I am not sure I understand what you mean by ..and do what??

I think I do get the fact that you are of the opinion that this may have been a "stranger abduction", since you seem to feel immediate family and friends are not involved, correct?
I am really very interested in your opinion about Clint's 3 month silence, because of your experience in missing person cases. Maybe it's me? Am I making sense?

BBM:
I think 'Clint's 3 month silence' was due to silence from the media. I do not believe Clint was silent to LE for the first three months.

Does that help explain?

And by turn everything on its' back, I meant that it is a very good investigative tool to use when stuck in a certain mindset. Flip the turtle back over and put it on its' feet. See which direction it walks.

IMO, Holly's case has been completely myopic from the get go, on many different levels.
It's not helping to find her- so let's try something new.

Make sense?

 

[Yoda]

I would be interested to know if CB noticed if the camoflauged man was carrying his a gun/hunting rifle as he was walking into the woods with HB. Did he notice if HB was carrying her bookbag, purse, lunchbox as she walked into the woods? Did HB walk normally, arms to the side? Or did it look like she had her hand to her face? And from the neighbor, was it a long scream or a quick startled scream? Did Holly know CB was still home? Wishing HB a safe return.

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

BBM:
I think 'Clint's 3 month silence' was due to silence from the media. I do not believe Clint was silent to LE for the first three months.

Does that help explain?

And by turn everything on its' back, I meant that it is a very good investigative tool to use when stuck in a certain mindset. Flip the turtle back over and put it on its' feet. See which direction it walks.

IMO, Holly's case has been completely myopic from the get go, on many different levels.
It's not helping to find her- so let's try something new.

Make sense?

:thumb::yes:

 

[Oriah]

:thumb::yes:

Thanks, R.U.

Hope you know I am not trying to tell anyone how to think or post at all. It's just that when we are all so frustrated and stagnant with a case, it really does help to analyze from a completely opposite (and sometimes seemingly ridiculous) standpoint. Sort of the opposite of 'assumptions', if you kwim.
Maybe we can pull that handy post by one of the mods (can't remember which one...) about what to do when a case starts going cold, or there is no new news?

Does anyone recall that one?

 

[EarlyT79]

I intently read about Holly'a disappearance months ago. Ashamedly I had no clue she was still missing. Six months since she was last seen. Who in heaven's name took Holly and where are they keeping her?

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

Thanks, R.U.

Hope you know I am not trying to tell anyone how to think or post at all. It's just that when we are all so frustrated and stagnant with a case, it really does help to analyze from a completely opposite (and sometimes seemingly ridiculous) standpoint. Sort of the opposite of 'assumptions', if you kwim.
Maybe we can pull that handy post by one of the mods (can't remember which one...) about what to do when a case starts going cold, or there is no new news?

Does anyone recall that one?

Let's see if I can find that.......might take a while though, so any other takers.......Be my guest.

 

[Carla Lashelle]

But what caused her bleeding? It was a puddle of blood according to the latest article. To me, that is a significant amount. It's not a drop of blood or blood stain or smear.

If she was injured, I don't understand how she was able to walk side by side with the perp. No falling over or perp holding her up.

And why would a stranger park his car out into the woods ?

Ugh! I keep asking the same questions over and over........I give up.:banghead:

THe blood has been described as a puddle, pool, drops, flecks, etc. So who knows. LE said it was a small amount and an amount that did not seem to indicate a mortal injury. Thats all we know really.

Slight injuries CAN produce a goodly amount of blood. Enough to make you feel dizzy or faint, but certainly not fatal. Head and scalp wounds bleed profusely even small ones. If Holly were struck in the face, she could have had a busted lip, bloody nose, torn ear ring, etc. All of those things can bleed.

As to her walking away... based on the vague sequence of events something happned outside and Holly screamed. I assume she was injured at that point. I belive she was in the garage part of the house or just outside at the back at that time. The suspect could have pushed her back into the garage. Clint did say he heard voices OUTSIDE before he saw the silhouettes inside the garage. If Holly had been struck in the face it would stun her and account for her kneeling when they were seen by Clint. After a few minutes the suspect could have hustled her out. I do not know why she would just leave with the suspect but for whatever reason she did. Even knowing Clint was at home. Again if she were stunned or disoriented she may not have been thinking straight.

Its not like the house is in the woods with no access. The main road is not far from the house and there are trails all aroudn the house where a suspect could park a car. Even if the suspect were parked out at the road I dont think you could easily see it from the house anyway. The aerial photos of the house I posted before show you could park within FEET of the house behind trees on the various trails and paths. I never bought the idea that the kidnapper hiked for miles to the house, took Holly, then hiked for miles back through the woods with her. He had a car/vehicle within a hundred yards I am willing to bet. If someone were watching the house and planning any kind of crime they would want their vehicle close for a fast get away.

 

[TxLady2]

TxL...Who 's commrnt are you referring to? Not understanding this.

No one's in particular, just making a statement.

 

[wishuwerehere]

Edited for comment by RUK:

"Because it is the call that is necessary to establish there is a problem"

I think it was the:scream:that actually set things in motion.
Neighbor calls school about scream--that is what signals a problem.

....and I soooooo agree--"release the 911 tapes"--it could ONLY help, we can't be any more confused than we already are.

RUK:

For me, it seems as though those “flurry of calls” set things in motion, because right after the calls the perp encountered (and very possibly attacked) Holly and subsequently abducted her.

I know that KB has stated that the flurry of calls between herself, Drew and Holly had to do with a misunderstanding about Drew hunting on her mother’s property. But I have a nagging feeling that there is more to these calls due to the fact that they were placed minutes before Holly is abducted. Coincidence? Or was Karen and Drew “worried” and “stressed” about Holly’s (and maybe Clint’s) safety at the house because of something that was overheard that morning? Did Holly place any calls to her mom or Drew about seeing someone out in the yard? “He’s here. I’m going to talk to him.”

Also, the way that KB reacted at school when she heard about the scream coming from the house. It sounds like KB had a “heads up” that something could go wrong.

I would like to hear Drew’s version of the events of that morning. (I know "good luck with that", but I thought I'd put it out there anyway.)

Jmo

 

[shefner]

I would like to hear Drew speak also...

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

RUK:

For me, it seems as though those “flurry of calls” set things in motion, because right after the calls the perp encountered (and very possibly attacked) Holly and subsequently abducted her.

I know that KB has stated that the flurry of calls between herself, Drew and Holly had to do with a misunderstanding about Drew hunting on her mother’s property. But I have a nagging feeling that there is more to these calls due to the fact that they were placed minutes before Holly is abducted. Coincidence? Or was Karen and Drew “worried” and “stressed” about Holly’s (and maybe Clint’s) safety at the house because of something that was overheard that morning? Did Holly place any calls to her mom or Drew about seeing someone out in the yard? “He’s here. I’m going to talk to him.”

Also, the way that KB reacted at school when she heard about the scream coming from the house. It sounds like KB had a “heads up” that something could go wrong.

I would like to hear Drew’s version of the events of that morning. (I know "good luck with that", but I thought I'd put it out there anyway.)

Jmo

Ya Know your right. Those phone calls could have set things in motion.Who knows what they really were about. What are the odds within 5 minutes of those calls Holly steps outside and is abducted?? Maybe those calls, if to their land line, were what really woke Clint up?

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

Thanks, R.U.

Hope you know I am not trying to tell anyone how to think or post at all. It's just that when we are all so frustrated and stagnant with a case, it really does help to analyze from a completely opposite (and sometimes seemingly ridiculous) standpoint. Sort of the opposite of 'assumptions', if you kwim.
Maybe we can pull that handy post by one of the mods (can't remember which one...) about what to do when a case starts going cold, or there is no new news?

Does anyone recall that one?

Things to do in Cases When There's No News:

- Go back through threads and collect what you think are the top ten most important links in the case, make a list of them, and post them. These lists would be great for both those familiar with the case, as well as people new to the case.

- If there's no timeline for the case, create one and post it, or begin one that others could add to. Find the most recent timeline, update it, and post it. If an existing timeline doesn't need updating, check to see if it's been posted within the last three pages of the most recent thread, and if not, go ahead and post it again for people new to the case to read.

- Write up your own recap of the story of the case and post it. Great for people who are new to the case, plus you get to give a voice to the victim.

- Go back and collect the known facts of the case, along with their source links, and post them. If you don't have time to collect all of them, just do whatever you have time for, and ask for others to add to it.

- Write up your own theory of what happened in the case and post it. Great to get others thinking about and posting on the case, and bring attention to it.

- Find a picture of the victim that hasn't been posted for a while, and post it so there's always a face to put with the victim's name, reminding people that the victim is a real person.

- Research to see if there's an updated missing poster and post it or link to it so it can be printed and distributed.

- Find the most recent map(s) of significant locations, update them if necessary, or just post the list of links if it hasn't been posted in the last few pages. If there's already a map created with one tool, create one with another tool that might give a different perspective. Maps can be created with Google Maps (http://maps.google.com/), Bing (http://www.bing.com/maps/?FORM=Z9LH7), and other online tools.

- Check Google News or Interceder (http://interceder.net/) for the most recent news story, and post it with a note that it's the most recent story on the case.

- See if there's a candle lighting site for the victim. If so, light a candle and post the link. If not, create a site, light a candle, and post the link so others can light candles. http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?l=ENG

- Humanize the victim - see if you can find some of the victim's favorite things, make a list, and post them. Did you find the victim's favorite song? See if you can find the lyrics, and post a link to them. Did you find the victim's favorite place to go? See if you can find a website for it, or a link to it on Google Maps or Bing.com, and link to them.

- Write up a recap of the victim's story, or a particular aspect of the case that interests or puzzles you, in your very own unique way, and post it.

- Write up a Myth Buster! Do you know of a rumor or misinformation that's made the rounds in the case and has always bugged you? Look up the source links for the real facts, and bust the myth!

- Find all the Nancy Grace transcripts for all the shows about the case, make a list of the links, and post them. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ng.html

- Start a list of direct quotes from LE, along with the date stated, and link to source. Post it and ask others to contribute to it.

- Is there a certain news video or press conference that you and others are constantly listening to to determine what was said? Transcribe it and post it for reference.

- Make a Who's Who list of the people in the case, with their full name so they can be searched for easily, and what their role or relationship is to the case. FOLLOW TOS.

- Make a list of the news websites that have been covering the case regularly, collect their URLs, and post it.

- For cases where there are general discussion threads instead of a forum, check to see if important information and links have been brought forward from previous threads, such as timeline, case recap, list of news websites, photo archives, candle lighting site for the victim, etc. Post the ones that haven't been brought forward yet.

 

[Plumeria5]

Ok, I will start.

Holly's favorites:heartbeat: as listed from her facebook page and notice Halloween was one of them:

Activities:
Singing

Others:
Skittles, Halloween, MIKE FESMIRE PHOTOGRAPHY, Dentist Stop Talking to Me, I Cant Talk Your Hand is in My Mouth, Dane Cook, Selena Gomez , TV Fanatic, Vin Diesel, The Twilight Saga, Spirit Halloween, CMA Country Music Association, Adam Sandler, Taylor Lautner, DJ Pauly D, Coca-Cola, Horses, SideReel, The Secret Life of the American Teenager Fansite by Wetpaint.com, Fox Searchlight Pictures

Movies:
The Last Exorcism
Paranormal Activity
Morning Glory
The Dilemma

Television:
The Secret Live of the American Teenager
True Blood
The Bad Girls Club
HBO

 

[Oriah]

Thank you, SheWhoMustNotBeNamed.

 

[Oriah]

Ok, I will start.

Holly's favorites:heartbeat: as listed from her facebook page and notice Halloween was one of them:

Activities:
Singing

Others:
Skittles, Halloween, MIKE FESMIRE PHOTOGRAPHY, Dentist Stop Talking to Me, I Cant Talk Your Hand is in My Mouth, Dane Cook, Selena Gomez , TV Fanatic, Vin Diesel, The Twilight Saga, Spirit Halloween, CMA Country Music Association, Adam Sandler, Taylor Lautner, DJ Pauly D, Coca-Cola, Horses, SideReel, The Secret Life of the American Teenager Fansite by Wetpaint.com, Fox Searchlight Pictures

Movies:
The Last Exorcism
Paranormal Activity
Morning Glory
The Dilemma

Television:
The Secret Live of the American Teenager
True Blood
The Bad Girls Club
HBO

Thanks Plumeria5. Your list of 'likes' made me want to add two. The color pink- and watching reality tv shows with her cousin. Can you imagine how happy Holly must have been when she found out that WD was going to be on Survivor? It must have been very bittersweet for WD to not have Holly there when it aired.

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

SheWhoMustNotBeNamed,

Well that worked out really well! You saved us so much research time. Thank you.