TN - Holly Bobo, 20, Darden, believed abducted 13 April 2011 - #30

[Carla Lashelle]

Which new missing woman? Thanks!

Karen Johnson Swift... shes 44 and a mother... I do not see any similarities here myself.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/04/karen-johnson-swift_n_1076815.html

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

I disagree, RUKidding. Cases go cold all the time because LE has a good suspect but can't get the right evidence for arrest or enough probable cause for a search warrant. While I may have gone a little "out there" with the fake story idea, I certainly think that LE could have a suspect without making an arrest and is asking the family to say certain things. Time may be of the essence, but probable cause is probable cause. If a local kidnapped her and hid her body on their land somewhere a helicopter couldn't see in plain view, it's entirely possible LE suspects this and can't do much about it.

cfrey-- Not sure where we disagree. I am in total agreement with everything you have said. My comments only suggested a "cover story" by LE for reasons only they would know. It could very easily be they "have a suspect in mind", but little else. If this is the case, I would hope with an eyewitness in Clint and a suspect in mind they at least have control of the situation by knowing the state or condition of Holly. That is the only reason I can think of for the continuation of their cover story. However if this is Not the case--the Victim comes first--(release any and all info that would enable the public's help in finding Holly). If some of this is "case sensitive" as it pertains to a "conviction" so be it......and that it what I meant by "make the case later".
BUT---as always that is just ME sayin!

 

[NCSleuth]

RUKidding,
I completely agree. Isn't finding HB more important than a possible conviction? It ridiculous.

We can't release info that might compromise a conviction. That would sound a lot better if they had already found HB and already had someone in custody to convict.

If she is missing, release all info to try to find her. If I were the family I would be furious!

 

[telemag]

Even if no one saw Holly walking into the woods there were the screams, 911 calls, blood found at the home, evidence found in multiple locations in the community...

Yes apparently Karen quit her job rather than going on leave.

I still maintain the dogs did not follow a scent into the woods because Holly and the suspect did not travel any distance into the woods. I think perhaps they entered the tree line and then quickly got into a vehicle of some sort. The statement that the dogs did not follow a scent comes from a talking head on a news show and is not definitive by any means. As I mentioned before our local sheriff had quit using tracking dogs citing evidence that they just are not effective and cost effective and that much time had been wasted in trying to get the dogs to a crime scene and then having them not being able to do anything anyway.

I don't think the family got rich making tee shirts versus what they could make at their jobs.

In many cases we do know about the famous abusive ex boyfriend, creepy neighbor, or someone who has a grudge against the family or a motive for a crime. In this case we do not have any of those suspects. There is no genuine evidence of any ex boyfriend who wanted to hurt Holly, for example. Actually it seems she and Drew had been a couple for a while, so any ex would have had to be from some time back. If such a person did exist I cant see why there would be zero mention of him at all anywhere by anyone. Same for anyone the family would know that could have a motive. Dana, Karen and Drew certainly have not implied they had an idea as to who did this. If they did know they wouldnt waste their time doing random things like handing out flyers.

You seem to know a lot more about this than I do so no argument there, but a few things that I am curious about. If Holly and her abductor did get to some kind of vehicle at the tree line they would not have got "into" it but more likely "on" it. So one might assume the dogs could still follow a scent while riding on a four wheeler as I doubt a car would have been able to make it thru those woods.

I never implied that anyone was getting rich from selling t-shirts, but I find it odd that one would quit their jobs to hand out flyers?? Have they gone back to work yet or are they still actively handing out flyers and selling T-shirts? I had posted a while back the amount that was made so far selling the shirts and I can't remember how much they made, but I think it was around 25,000.

You say that there has been evidence found at multiple locations in the community. Couple things, do we know FOR SURE this is true and has it been released as to what was found? Also, if this is true then we need to assume that Holly or someone was dropping items off at certain locations. Why would someone do this? It certainly was not done by accident and why would the abductor need to do this as far as he was concerned he was home free at that point. Dropping off items of Holly's would not be a good idea. There could have been finger prints or it could also show a possible route that he took while with Holly.

As far as the screams are concerned. People usually scream out of fear or pain. There can not be too many scenarios here if there was a man who came to abduct Holly. We know that Holly was cut, but we don't know how. She was cut deep enough that blood fell onto the ground. So Holly either screamed from getting cut or from being startled when she first was her abductor. If Holly screamed when she first saw a strange man one would think that he would have ran immediately for fear of being caught. So if this is the case this man had some guts to stick around even after the neighbors possibly hearing that scream which they actually did.

If Holly screamed later on possibly when she was cut then we again can assume that he has some real guts to stick around after cutting or even seriously injuring Holly and then he somehow got a bleeding very scared and injured girl to calmly or casually as told by Clint to walk with him in the woods and she brought her lunch box with her too and other items.

Does anyone here know or can at least speculate if Holly screamed before or after Clint had witnessed Holly and her abductor kneeling down talking in the garage? I really wonder why Holly screamed. Was it our of fear or out of pain? In my opinion when someone especially a young girl screams out of fear she would scream her bloody head off and not just one time but involuntarily multiple times.

This is just my opinion, but I believe that the one scream that Holly got out was the only scream that she was able to because it was right before she was murdered. She knew what was coming and that this was the end. I will stress again that this is just my opinion, but I base it on how I personally have digested the info about this case thus far. Does this mean that I think Clint killed his sister? NO it doesn't, but I do not believe his version of the story. Maybe Clint knew Holly's attacker or attackers and was scared for his own life and is now lying because he is scared for his own life who knows. I just can't go with the current version of what has been told so far.

 

[Wonless]

Karen Johnson Swift... shes 44 and a mother... I do not see any similarities here myself.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/04/karen-johnson-swift_n_1076815.html

IMO Holly and Karen Swift are very similar in appearance as far as type..Blonde hair, attractive, fit(it was reported that Karen was a avid jogger)...etc. Obviously there is an age difference, but IMO often predators have a type, such as actractive blond women..I think Ted Bundy had a type//young white females// i.e. he had a sexual attraction to this type but most of his crimes where linked to a oppertunity...i.e. fit the general type, and presented an oppertunity as far as being alone at the wrong place wrong time or whatever.

I guess my thinking in regard to the Karen Swift case is if Holly was maybe the first time this guy actually consumated a crime due to having a perfect one in a million set of circumstances or something, and then its possible that he wanted to do it agian but it takes him 8 months to find another victim where the same perfect circumstances present themselves. That being said, there is as I understand it, alot of things that are unknown about the actual disappearance of Karen Swift, i.e. she may not have actually had car trouble on a lonely road early in the morning and she may have in fact been abducted from her home..as of now I don't think that LE is sure, so I am speculating about the circumstances and looking at a possible pattern of a "serial preditor" that could be linked to Holly also. I can also see the other side of the coin of Carla Lashelle's point that there is not a link, i.e. the husband is a stronger suspect in Karen's case based on the marital problems they where having that statistically are often a motive for crimes.

Remember also that we have the other "attempted abduction/assault" of the women(I forget her name) several months before Holly in which she is going to get something from her car in the early morning hours and an unknown male try's to grab her but she escapes..We can't be sure that its not related at this time, its a possiblity.

 

[Oriah]

RUKidding,
I completely agree. Isn't finding HB more important than a possible conviction? It ridiculous.

We can't release info that might compromise a conviction. That would sound a lot better if they had already found HB and already had someone in custody to convict.

If she is missing, release all info to try to find her. If I were the family I would be furious!

BBM:
I'm pretty certain she is missing.

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/holly-bobo/view

Bumping for you again, Holly.

 

[Carla Lashelle]

You seem to know a lot more about this than I do so no argument there, but a few things that I am curious about. :crazy: we all have access to the same info, articles, etc. If Holly and her abductor did get to some kind of vehicle at the tree line they would not have got "into" it but more likely "on" it. So one might assume the dogs could still follow a scent while riding on a four wheeler as I doubt a car would have been able to make it thru those woods. the house is so close to the main road that something like a jeep or pick up could probably take one of the main trails to an area very close to the house witout much effort. I think a vehicle was parked just a short distance away from the house, and that Holly and the subject drove off quickly. The dog scent story has never been confirmed anyway and it only appeared on the Nancy Grace show which is hardly a bastion of truthful journalism. If Holly were led to a vehicle parked just inside the tree line and then driven back to the main road and away there would not be a scent to follow.

I never implied that anyone was getting rich from selling t-shirts, but I find it odd that one would quit their jobs to hand out flyers?? Have they gone back to work yet or are they still actively handing out flyers and selling T-shirts? I had posted a while back the amount that was made so far selling the shirts and I can't remember how much they made, but I think it was around 25,000. As far as I know Karen has not gone back to work and Clint has not gone back to school. They quit so they could devote their time to travelling around town and neighboring counties to pass out info/spread the word, etc. The family still searches for Holly in the woods too. All of that takes time.

You say that there has been evidence found at multiple locations in the community. Couple things, do we know FOR SURE this is true and has it been released as to what was found? From just the first or second day of the investigation it has been reported that various UNIDENTIFIED items have been found in various locations. There was that big Easter find that was supposedly a "game changer" and that was never described or elaborated on either. Supposedly that item, according to LE, was found based on a phone tip. Also, if this is true then we need to assume that Holly or someone was dropping items off at certain locations. Why would someone do this? It certainly was not done by accident and why would the abductor need to do this as far as he was concerned he was home free at that point. Dropping off items of Holly's would not be a good idea. There could have been finger prints or it could also show a possible route that he took while with Holly. Dana Bobo said he felt items had been purposely planted in different locations to throw off the investigation.

As far as the screams are concerned. People usually scream out of fear or pain. There can not be too many scenarios here if there was a man who came to abduct Holly. We know that Holly was cut, but we don't know how. We do NOT know if Holly was cut. Yes blood was found (described as drops, puddle, small amount, etc. But we do not know what type of injury produced it. Cut implies perhaps a knife but no weapon was ever seen by Clint (that he has mentioned) A punch to the face will give you a nose bleed or busted lip that will produce drops of blood, for example. So would a torn ear ring from a struggle, etc. . She was cut deep enough that blood fell onto the ground. So Holly either screamed from getting cut or from being startled when she first was her abductor. If Holly screamed when she first saw a strange man one would think that he would have ran immediately for fear of being caught. So if this is the case this man had some guts to stick around even after the neighbors possibly hearing that scream which they actually did.

If Holly screamed later on possibly when she was cut then we again can assume that he has some real guts to stick around after cutting or even seriously injuring Holly and then he somehow got a bleeding very scared and injured girl to calmly or casually as told by Clint to walk with him in the woods and she brought her lunch box with her too and other items. We now seem to think the screams came before Clint woke up (perhaps what got the dog barking?) and that was, obviously, before Clint heard voices outside and then saw the two silhouettes in his garage. Since the blood was found in that location in the garage where the two people were seen kneeling, we can believe that Holly's injury took place before Clint saw them and probably at/on/around the time of the screams some minutes earlier.

Does anyone here know or can at least speculate if Holly screamed before or after Clint had witnessed Holly and her abductor kneeling down talking in the garage? I really wonder why Holly screamed. Was it our of fear or out of pain? In my opinion when someone especially a young girl screams out of fear she would scream her bloody head off and not just one time but involuntarily multiple times. see my comments above. If she screamed once or twice the suspect probably struck or stunned her, etc. so she would not scream again. This does not contradict the general time frame for the events, and it would have happened before Clint woke up.

This is just my opinion, but I believe that the one scream that Holly got out was the only scream that she was able to because it was right before she was murdered. That does not fit with any known evidence or the witness statements. Holly screamed before Clint saw her in the garage, and then Clint saw her walking through the yard. So obviously she was not "murdered" at that time. Based on what has been released there is no direct evidence of a murder and LE had said the amount of blood found was not indicative of a major injury. We can assume that perhaps Holly was k illed at some point after her abduction, but I do not think her probably death had anything to do with the screams. She knew what was coming and that this was the end. I will stress again that this is just my opinion, but I base it on how I personally have digested the info about this case thus far. Does this mean that I think Clint killed his sister? NO it doesn't, but I do not believe his version of the story. Maybe Clint knew Holly's attacker or attackers and was scared for his own life and is now lying because he is scared for his own life who knows. I just can't go with the current version of what has been told so far.

I struggle with understanding some of the issues with the sequence of events as stated. But 1) I believe the family that they do not know who did this 2) do not think Clint had anything to do with this 3) LE and the family know more about the case in general than has been disclosed 4) some things are being kept private for various reasons either to protect the family's privacy or to protect law enforcement's investigation 5) perhaps some aspects of the investigation were poorly handled early on 6) no one in the family seems "scared" of anyone per se and I can't see them going through the motions of searching for 6 months if they knew who did this, etc.

 

[Carla Lashelle]

IMO Holly and Karen Swift are very similar in appearance as far as type..Blonde hair, attractive, fit(it was reported that Karen was a avid jogger)...etc. Obviously there is an age difference, but IMO often predators have a type, such as actractive blond women..I think Ted Bundy had a type//young white females// i.e. he had a sexual attraction to this type but most of his crimes where linked to a oppertunity...i.e. fit the general type, and presented an oppertunity as far as being alone at the wrong place wrong time or whatever.

I guess my thinking in regard to the Karen Swift case is if Holly was maybe the first time this guy actually consumated a crime due to having a perfect one in a million set of circumstances or something, and then its possible that he wanted to do it agian but it takes him 8 months to find another victim where the same perfect circumstances present themselves. That being said, there is as I understand it, alot of things that are unknown about the actual disappearance of Karen Swift, i.e. she may not have actually had car trouble on a lonely road early in the morning and she may have in fact been abducted from her home..as of now I don't think that LE is sure, so I am speculating about the circumstances and looking at a possible pattern of a "serial preditor" that could be linked to Holly also. I can also see the other side of the coin of Carla Lashelle's point that there is not a link, i.e. the husband is a stronger suspect in Karen's case based on the marital problems they where having that statistically are often a motive for crimes.

Remember also that we have the other "attempted abduction/assault" of the women(I forget her name) several months before Holly in which she is going to get something from her car in the early morning hours and an unknown male try's to grab her but she escapes..We can't be sure that its not related at this time, its a possiblity.

Yes that earlier early morning attempted abduction where the guy grabbed the lady outside her car, in front of her house, seemed to be eerily similar.

Karen's case reminds me more of Shelly Mook... Maybe I am cynical (well yeah I am) but everytime an ex husband, abusive situation, pending divorce, custody dispute, etc. are mentioned in relation to a missing woman, red flags start to pop up as to a possible suspect/motive.

 

[cluciano63]

It has been said that Clint went into the woods, at least in some versions I've seen online. Did he hear a vehicle start up or drive away?

 

[wishuwerehere]

Maybe the perp did not take Holly to the tree line near Swan Johnson Rd., but rather to one of the logging trails in the opposite direction. He could have used something “like this’:

This all terrain vehicle (made by ARGO) can travel over land and water. It’s called an amphibious UTV.

jmo

 

[Chili Fries]

I'm still leaning toward the perp using a car. It makes sense to get out of the area as quickly as possible and in my experience most of those large ATVs tend to be loud, you can hear them from pretty far away.

 

[Chili Fries]

(snipped)
Remember also that we have the other "attempted abduction/assault" of the women(I forget her name) several months before Holly in which she is going to get something from her car in the early morning hours and an unknown male try's to grab her but she escapes..We can't be sure that its not related at this time, its a possiblity.

Her name is Heather Sullivan. The one thing that points to these incidents not being related is Heather said her attacker was skinny. She wrote about it on her FB and said she went out to her car to leave early in the morning when it was dark, but forgot her cigarettes. She went back into her house and when she came out again the man attempted to grab her. He stopped and fled when she dropped a kerosene lamp she was carrying and it shattered, and her boyfriend said something from inside the house.

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

RUKidding,
I completely agree. Isn't finding HB more important than a possible conviction? It ridiculous.

We can't release info that might compromise a conviction. That would sound a lot better if they had already found HB and already had someone in custody to convict.

If she is missing, release all info to try to find her. If I were the family I would be furious!

Exactly!--Although I am going to assume LE and the family have an open line of communication, and the "one hand knows what the other hand is doing" so to speak.

I also GET the "if she is missing" comment. You know in her case she IS missing. You were just making a general statement "If a person is missing, and there is the possibility they are alive--then All info should be released, right?

 

[wishuwerehere]

I'm still leaning toward the perp using a car. It makes sense to get out of the area as quickly as possible and in my experience most of those large ATVs tend to be loud, you can hear them from pretty far away.

Chili Fries, I agree with you about ATVs being loud. However, Clint has never stated publicly whether or not he heard a vehicle (an ATV or anything else) taking off in (and traveling through) the woods. Neither has the neighbor.

If I remember correctly, LE stated that the perp may have used an ATV? Please correct me if I am wrong.

Also, if the perp did use an ATV of some sort, it makes me wonder if he performed a "trial run."

jmo

 

[telemag]

Carla, thanks again even though we don't agree it's nice to be able to debate. I am still trying to grasp how a man can plan such a kidnapping without knowing ahead of time what he might encounter. In this case he made a mistake in maybe not knowing that Clint was home. All of the other scenarios and risks he would have encounted didn;t happen so I guess he got lucky. He had no way of knowing if Holly would go with him, he had no way of knowing if a car would drive by while he drove away or if he was walking in the yard. He also as I stated before had the guts to stick around quite a long time after the scream. In fact this not only took guts, but shows how stupid the guy is. Any number of things could have happened after that scream. For all we know a bunch of neighbors could have ran over with guns and shot the guy.

In another parallel world Clint could have thought differently about the situation and grabbed his rifle and ran after Holly or even approached the guy while in the garage. So again this guy was REAL lucky because I certainly don't think he was smart at how he went about abducting Holly. I also don't think this guy planted anything to throw off the investigation, that is absurd. There was nothing to throw off simply because there was ZERO evidence left behind so why risk taking the time to leave evidence that may have led them to Holly?

One last thing. Has anyone ever thought about why this guy went to the trouble to kidnap Holly and what did he want from her? There can only be so many reasons and I don't think there are that many. One could be that he wanted to rape her. If this was the case he could have done it at Holly's house as he certainly stayed there long enough. Maybe he wanted more alone time with her and as sick as this sounds a lot of serial killers like to do this. If this is the case then he brought her to a certain location and she "could" still be alive. I'm pretty sure he did not plan on killing her at least in the beginning as he could have done that at the house also. Would love to hear some other thoughts.

 

[NCSleuth]

I also GET the "if she is missing" comment. You know in her case she IS missing. You were just making a general statement "If a person is missing, and there is the possibility they are alive--then All info should be released, right?

Yes, just making a general statement. Yes, I believe HB is missing, didn't mean to imply she wasn't.

I am simply saying if a person is missing, finding them should be of upmost importance, not whether someone will be convicted or not.

 

[cluciano63]

Yes, just making a general statement. Yes, I believe HB is missing, didn't mean to imply she wasn't.

I am simply saying if a person is missing, finding them should be of upmost importance, not whether someone will be convicted or not.

I agree; this case has gone on for too long for LE not to reveal something, if it could help in locating Holly, conviction be dam*ed, IMO. Worry about that later.

I also believe that LE and Holly's family are NOT on the same wavelength; her mom comes across to me as desperate for LE to tell her something, anything at all.

 

[cfreyja23]

cfrey-- Not sure where we disagree. I am in total agreement with everything you have said. My comments only suggested a "cover story" by LE for reasons only they would know. It could very easily be they "have a suspect in mind", but little else. If this is the case, I would hope with an eyewitness in Clint and a suspect in mind they at least have control of the situation by knowing the state or condition of Holly. That is the only reason I can think of for the continuation of their cover story. However if this is Not the case--the Victim comes first--(release any and all info that would enable the public's help in finding Holly). If some of this is "case sensitive" as it pertains to a "conviction" so be it......and that it what I meant by "make the case later".
BUT---as always that is just ME sayin!

I'm sorry, I completely misread your post. That's like the second time I've done that on websleuths this week! I see that we are on the same page. I suggested the possibility that the family is working with LE to act like they are searching for her, when in fact LE has a good idea of where she might be, but don't have probable cause to search certain areas. Now that I'm writing it out, though, it seems a bit ridiculous. If it is the case, I totally agree that it doesn't hurt anything to release info to the public. My opinion is simply that the lack of any information from LE indicates they have POIs who are local and LE doesn't want to tip them off. If LE thought it was a stranger abduction, there would be virtually no reason to hold the cards so close.

 

[TxLady2]

I agree; this case has gone on for too long for LE not to reveal something, if it could help in locating Holly, conviction be dam*ed, IMO. Worry about that later.

I also believe that LE and Holly's family are NOT on the same wavelength; her mom comes across to me as desperate for LE to tell her something, anything at all.

They have to preserve the integrity of the investigation, because if the case ever makes it to trial, they want the person responsible to be convicted. There is a reason behind not releasing any more information... either they don't have a suspect in mind, or they don't have enough evidence to arrest him just yet.
Whether the family knows more than the public knows, or is just being kept in the dark, doesn't matter. LE does not have an obligation to tell the public anything. And in some jurisdictions, they will not name a suspect until they have them handcuffed on the way to jail. That's just the way they operate.
I'm sure Holly's mom IS desperate to know something... but they may not have anything they can tell her right now. That isn't proof that they aren't on the same wavelength, IMO, it just means they can't tell her something they don't know themselves.

 

[~n/t~]

They have to preserve the integrity of the investigation, because if the case ever makes it to trial, they want the person responsible to be convicted. There is a reason behind not releasing any more information... either they don't have a suspect in mind, or they don't have enough evidence to arrest him just yet.
Whether the family knows more than the public knows, or is just being kept in the dark, doesn't matter. LE does not have an obligation to tell the public anything. And in some jurisdictions, they will not name a suspect until they have them handcuffed on the way to jail. That's just the way they operate.
I'm sure Holly's mom IS desperate to know something... but they may not have anything they can tell her right now. That isn't proof that they aren't on the same wavelength, IMO, it just means they can't tell her something they don't know themselves.

This article, in my opinion, suggests TBI and the Bobos have issues.
http://www.jacksonsun.com/article/20111013/NEWS25/110130314