TN - Holly Bobo, 20, Darden; believed abducted 13 April 2011 - #34

[Plumeria5]

Oh, good grief. I never heard of such a thing. The people of the State voted for this???

This is interesting...wonder if Holly's county does this. I will look.

http://www.mcgtn.org/sheriff/911-call-log

 

[Mr. Noatak]

If the perp thought that Holly was alone, why hide the get-away car? They are out in the middle of no-where, FPS!

Mr Noatak, your summaries leads me to think it could have been the neighbor. That is one person that needs to be cleared. Of course, we will never know anything...

We can sit here for years and this LE/Pastor group is not going to talk. They haven't said anything since 4-16-11. When the father of Holly stuttered and told us the blood was Holly's, he was whisked away. Pretty darn clear to me, LE/pastors/spokespeople are running the show.

My opinions only, no facts here:

Although I have a policy of never naming a suspect, I will report who I believe is NOT a suspect. I personally believe the immediate neighbors mentioned in the press reports are NOT suspects in this case. I believe that they are important witnesses. But, this does not discredit your reasoning. I am just some guy with an opinion, and my interpretation is no better than yours.

 

[Chili Fries]

I do not believe TN ever releases 911 calls. I think it is a TN law.

That law was proposed but I'm very sure it never actually became a law. It was reported on by the media when it was proposed but never went anywhere. I've taken a thorough look at the state statutes and there is nothing that says the 911 calls can't be released.

However, I think many posters in this thread have made good arguments as to why it would be unfair to Holly's family to release the recordings (after I posted about how I e-mailed a Memphis reporter asking about them), so I think it's probably a good idea to keep them private if it spares the family pain.

 

[officer'swife 2010]

You think this case would be very easy to solve. Broad daylight? Brother saw Holly going into the woods?? Why hasn't she been found? Just doesn't add up to me. I'm groggy in the mornings too but someone had to see something besides what her brother saw.

 

[rachaellouise]

Whilst some may say the case is easily solvable (determined to be a stranger abduction, or someone who knew her but not in the immediate friends and family) but then you have to think, that opens up a whole new ball game of trying to figure out WHO would take her (especially if it is a stranger, no way of tying anyone down)

 

[Whisperer]

We are left with one of two things regarding the perp and his abduction of Holly. He either knew Clint was home or he didn't. If he knew Clint was home, why the dilly-dallying around and arguing, etc? Why make a trip to the woods so Clint could see him take Holly? A reasonable conclusion would be he didn't think Clint was home.

OTOH, if he thought Clint wasn't home. Why park in the woods? Why have to convince the victim to walk with him? No experienced perp would do either of these two things. That brings us down to Holly knowing the perp. If Holly knew the perp, why hide the car and have to walk to his victim and then get his victim to walk with him to a waiting vehicle?

It makes no sense. Neither does Clint's version of events. There are gaps that need to be filled in. I am sure the answers lie in the 911 call. I don't believe hearing the 911 call by the family would be painful to them. The family has been through worse. I think there is another reason why they aren't released. My guess is they give clues to what happened.

 

[Plumeria5]

We are left with one of two things regarding the perp and his abduction of Holly. He either knew Clint was home or he didn't. If he knew Clint was home, why the dilly-dallying around and arguing, etc? Why make a trip to the woods so Clint could see him take Holly? A reasonable conclusion would be he didn't think Clint was home.

OTOH, if he thought Clint wasn't home. Why park in the woods? Why have to convince the victim to walk with him? No experienced perp would do either of these two things. That brings us down to Holly knowing the perp. If Holly knew the perp, why hide the car and have to walk to his victim and then get his victim to walk with him to a waiting vehicle?

It makes no sense. Neither does Clint's version of events. There are gaps that need to be filled in. I am sure the answers lie in the 911 call. I don't believe hearing the 911 call by the family would be painful to them. The family has been through worse. I think there is another reason why they aren't released. My guess is they give clues to what happened.

I came up with one scenario if he thought Clint wasn't home. Holly knew the guy and thought he was acting alone. "They" parked in the woods and one of them went to the house while the others stayed in the vehicle. Holly thought she would eventually be able to talk her way out of it and "he" would let her go after a while. When she gets to the vehicle, she realizes there is more than one guy involved. Now that is where you would think she would scream again...assuming she screamed in the garage when she was hurt. IDK! :banghead: Usually kidnappings are like smash and grabs but this one seemed to go in s-l-o-w motion!

 

[Whisperer]

1. The crime may have even started inside the house. The Bobos admitted they never used to lock their house or their cars.

2. I would hope Clint could describe the way the perp walked as he watched them walk into the woods. Clint believed it was Drew. Did he walk like Drew also?

3. I believe Clint observed from another vantage point but I can't continue on this line of thinking here because I know how adamant mods are about questioning Clint's statement.

4. If the responders knew the logging road was used, why not block off the North and South exit from their property?

5. I never did find out why the outside dog (retriever) didn't do anything and why we never heard of any such noise he made if he did.

Can we have more info on the puddle and clarification on the specks of blood on the grass? I clearly recall it being mentioned. Was Holly harmed elsewhere in the yard and she was stopped trying to get in her car? Why did she carry her purse (her father told us) with camera and keys with her to the woods?

 

[Plumeria5]

1. The crime may have even started inside the house. The Bobos admitted they never used to lock their house or their cars.

2. I would hope Clint could describe the way the perp walked as he watched them walk into the woods. Clint believed it was Drew. Did he walk like Drew also?

3. I believe Clint observed from another vantage point but I can't continue on this line of thinking here because I know how adamant mods are about questioning Clint's statement.

4. If the responders knew the logging road was used, why not block off the North and South exit from their property?

5. I never did find out why the outside dog (retriever) didn't do anything and why we never heard of any such noise he made if he did.

Can we have more info on the puddle and clarification on the specks of blood on the grass? I clearly recall it being mentioned. Was Holly harmed elsewhere in the yard and she was stopped trying to get in her car? Why did she carry her purse (her father told us) with camera and keys with her to the woods?

BBM I hear you Whisperer. Granted Golden Retrievers are laid back...but and I mean a BIG BUT...:floorlaugh: dogs sense when something is wrong. If I have even a scratch my dogs will smell my wound in an attempt to help me. Unless their golden is use to people screaming and getting wounded in the yard, I don't understand why it wouldn't react in some way. That would have been a very good interview question but unfortunately it didn't get asked. :maddening:

 

[~n/t~]

1. The crime may have even started inside the house. The Bobos admitted they never used to lock their house or their cars.

2. I would hope Clint could describe the way the perp walked as he watched them walk into the woods. Clint believed it was Drew. Did he walk like Drew also?

3. I believe Clint observed from another vantage point but I can't continue on this line of thinking here because I know how adamant mods are about questioning Clint's statement.

4. If the responders knew the logging road was used, why not block off the North and South exit from their property?

5. I never did find out why the outside dog (retriever) didn't do anything and why we never heard of any such noise he made if he did.

Can we have more info on the puddle and clarification on the specks of blood on the grass? I clearly recall it being mentioned. Was Holly harmed elsewhere in the yard and she was stopped trying to get in her car? Why did she carry her purse (her father told us) with camera and keys with her to the woods?

Did Dana say her keys also? For some reason I recall reading her car keys were found in her car (?) Did she have 2 separate sets? House keys and car keys? Or maybe her car keys were always left in her vehicle considering they never locked the doors according to Dana?

I wish some of these simple questions could be answered. The reason I'm interested in the car keys (if found inside her vehicle) is as a result of 2 other cases in Tennessee where the vehicles were found burned. In both cases, the girls bodies were found away from their vehicle leading investigators to believe the crimes occurred in other locations before the perp burned the vehicles.

IF Holly's abductor had a similar plan, perhaps Clint being home botched his plan and that's why he was seen walking away with Holly (??)

 

[wfgodot]

1. The crime may have even started inside the house. The Bobos admitted they never used to lock their house or their cars.

First sentence of first TBI press release:

Nashville, Tenn. - The Tennessee Bureau of Investigation and the Decatur County Sheriff’s Office are actively looking for leads in a possible home invasion and abduction of a 20-year-old Darden, Tenn. woman from her home this morning.

It's just, what qualifies as a home invasion? Holly and the perp bending over looking at something and Clint sees them there, semi-inside, or was this first reported different than we know, and someone was in the house proper.

This is the infamous "drug across the carport" release, and never should have seen the light of day unless changes were made in its text.

http://www.tbi.tn.gov/news_room/doc...Feared Victim of Home Invasion Kidnapping.pdf

 

[Carla Lashelle]

1. The crime may have even started inside the house. The Bobos admitted they never used to lock their house or their cars.

2. I would hope Clint could describe the way the perp walked as he watched them walk into the woods. Clint believed it was Drew. Did he walk like Drew also? But when he saw them walking away in the yard was this not AFTER Clint had spoken with his mom and she had told him it was not Drew. So did he still think it was?

3. I believe Clint observed from another vantage point but I can't continue on this line of thinking here because I know how adamant mods are about questioning Clint's statement. We know he first heard them walking around in the yard, then saw them kneeling in the garage before he again witnessed them walking in the yard.

4. If the responders knew the logging road was used, why not block off the North and South exit from their property? There are different reports as to how quickly LE did or didn't do anything once they arrived on the scene.

5. I never did find out why the outside dog (retriever) didn't do anything and why we never heard of any such noise he made if he did. I think people place way to much importance or emphasis on the reaction or lack of reaction of pets. Well trained, acclimated, friendly dogs may not make much noise.

Can we have more info on the puddle and clarification on the specks of blood on the grass? I clearly recall it being mentioned. Was Holly harmed elsewhere in the yard and she was stopped trying to get in her car? The yard comments come from an early JVM or Nancy Grace talking head type interview. No other confirmed source ever said anything about blood in the yard. Seemingly it was in the garage/by the car only, and supposedly a small amount. Why did she carry her purse (her father told us) with camera and keys with her to the woods? I assume she had items in a bag, possibly slung over her shoulder. And when she left the garage with the suspect either she just reflexively hung onto it, the suspect told her to grab it, or the suspect grabbed it. It has never been explained exactly what Holly had with her that morning and how she would have normally carried it, .ie. in a book/school bag, in with her lunch, in a purse, etc. .

some thoughts in red

 

[Chili Fries]

We are left with one of two things regarding the perp and his abduction of Holly. He either knew Clint was home or he didn't. If he knew Clint was home, why the dilly-dallying around and arguing, etc? Why make a trip to the woods so Clint could see him take Holly? A reasonable conclusion would be he didn't think Clint was home.

OTOH, if he thought Clint wasn't home. Why park in the woods? Why have to convince the victim to walk with him? No experienced perp would do either of these two things. That brings us down to Holly knowing the perp. If Holly knew the perp, why hide the car and have to walk to his victim and then get his victim to walk with him to a waiting vehicle?

It makes no sense. Neither does Clint's version of events. There are gaps that need to be filled in. I am sure the answers lie in the 911 call. I don't believe hearing the 911 call by the family would be painful to them. The family has been through worse. I think there is another reason why they aren't released. My guess is they give clues to what happened.

My thoughts...

- He parked in the woods so he would have the element of surprise and so he would not have his escape route cut off. Holly may have seen his car if he parked too far up the driveway, which could have made her cautious, and if he didn't, he could have been seen from the road and even had his escape route cut off by any car turning into the driveway. It seems smarter to me to park in the woods because if somebody did show up before he had the chance to abduct Holly, he could abandon his plan for the day, slip back in the woods unnoticed and try another day. He didn't want to take the chance of his car getting blocked in when it's was time for him to leave the vicinity.

- I think him not knowing Clint was home could be a big clue if Clint's car was visible. If he didn't recognize Clint's car then he's not somebody who knows the family (I think a guy from Holly's school is a strong possibility in this scenario).

- I think he could have asked Holly if somebody was home when he attacked her and she lied and told him she was alone to protect Clint. Since the guy probably had a knife or gun, Holly could have very well been worried about the attacker killing Clint if he knew Clint was inside.

 

[Plumeria5]

some thoughts in red

I wholeheartedly disagree with your comments on #5. Whether the outside dog was trained or not does not change my thoughts about the fact that dogs react to their master's pain or peril. From the photo of Holly holding Rascal and the photo with the horse, Holly appeared to have a love of animals. What I love about dogs is their loyalty and in Holly's case I don't for a minute think the dog would have just curled up outside napping, or sat watching Holly being hurt to the point of bleeding and led away. At the very least I see the dog with its curiosity going to Holly and/or following when she was led away.
Dogs are much smarter than we often give them credit for.

 

[Carla Lashelle]

I wholeheartedly disagree with your comments on #5. Whether the outside dog was trained or not does not change my thoughts about the fact that dogs react to their master's pain or peril. From the photo of Holly holding Rascal and the photo with the horse, Holly appeared to have a love of animals. What I love about dogs is their loyalty and in Holly's case I don't for a minute think the dog would have just curled up outside napping, or sat watching Holly being hurt to the point of bleeding and led away. At the very least I see the dog with its curiosity going to Holly and/or following when she was led away.
Dogs are much smarter than we often give them credit for.

The thing is here we have no real information about the dog even. There are some general comments about an indoor and outdoor dog but thats it. Do we know a dog was even outdoors? Since the yard is not fenced in (it is now I think) I doubt a dog just ran around totally lose. It could have been indoors, staked up somewhere, who knows.

I stand by my comments too. Everyone was so sure in the Anne Pressly case that she had to have known her attacker because she lived with two dogs and no one heard any noise and the dogs never apparently attacked the suspect. Turns out the guy broke into her house and the dogs did NOTHING. By the killers own admission the dogs (cocker spaniels) were sleeping on Annes bed when he went in her room and assaulted her. Presumably the dogs ran off as they were found running loose a day or so later.

 

[Chili Fries]

The thing is here we have no real information about the dog even. There are some general comments about an indoor and outdoor dog but thats it. Do we know a dog was even outdoors? Since the yard is not fenced in (it is now I think) I doubt a dog just ran around totally lose. It could have been indoors, staked up somewhere, who knows.

I stand by my comments too. Everyone was so sure in the Anne Pressly case that she had to have known her attacker because she lived with two dogs and no one heard any noise and the dogs never apparently attacked the suspect. Turns out the guy broke into her house and the dogs did NOTHING. By the killers own admission the dogs (cocker spaniels) were sleeping on Annes bed when he went in her room and assaulted her. Presumably the dogs ran off as they were found running loose a day or so later.

I figured that if the Bobos have outside dogs they are hunting dogs and they keep them in a kennel. I haven't seen an outside kennel on any helicopter shots of the house but it doesn't mean there isn't one, those shots don't clearly show the whole area around the house.

 

[Plumeria5]

I figured that if the Bobos have outside dogs they are hunting dogs and they keep them in a kennel. I haven't seen an outside kennel on any helicopter shots of the house but it doesn't mean there isn't one, those shots don't clearly show the whole area around the house.

They have a Golden Retriever and it was shown in the video walking around them when Karen was interviewed outside the house.

 

[Plumeria5]

The thing is here we have no real information about the dog even. There are some general comments about an indoor and outdoor dog but thats it. Do we know a dog was even outdoors? Since the yard is not fenced in (it is now I think) I doubt a dog just ran around totally lose. It could have been indoors, staked up somewhere, who knows.

I stand by my comments too. Everyone was so sure in the Anne Pressly case that she had to have known her attacker because she lived with two dogs and no one heard any noise and the dogs never apparently attacked the suspect. Turns out the guy broke into her house and the dogs did NOTHING. By the killers own admission the dogs (cocker spaniels) were sleeping on Annes bed when he went in her room and assaulted her. Presumably the dogs ran off as they were found running loose a day or so later.

And they could have been the type of dogs to run out the door when the door was left open...before the attack.

I stand by my opinions, too. Let's agree to disagree.

 

[masootz]

i've gone through and read most of previous threads (seriously, wow) and i have a couple thoughts. would love feedback.

in a case this publicized you really have to work hard to separate the fact from the rumor. you have to boil it all down to things which are indisputable otherwise you end up with theories out the wazoo based on nothing but conjecture.
everything else can be piled on later, but if you start with what is certain then you immediately start to eliminate things which aren't plausible. so, what do we KNOW about this case? what are the indisputable facts?

1) hb remains missing for more than a year
2) her blood was found near her car on the day she went missing
3) several personal items were later found nowhere near where her blood was found
4) whatever happened to her had to have happened in a small window of time (approx twenty minutes)

almost everything else (again, correct me if i'm wrong) is based on someone seeing or reporting something - they report witnessing something, they report calling 911, they report what the scene looked like, LE reports what they can tell
us, etc and every one of those reports differs at least a little bit from each other because that's how human beings work. we recall things from our imperfect memory and sometimes what we remember differs greatly from what happened.
sometimes we remember things based on our opinions of events. we're not perfect and that's ok.

so let's see what we can determine from those things above. from there we try to move to making sense of those three things in the way that causes us to make the LEAST number of assumptions. every time you make an assumption it's like
taking a left or right turn off the main road. pretty soon you're so far removed from your original path that you wonder how you got where you are.

1) hb remains missing for more than a year - it takes virtually no assumptions to claim that she didn't go missing of her own volition. coupled with #2 it would take many more assumptions to create a scenario where she tried to fake an
abduction or some similar scenario where she caused an injury to herself leaving blood near her car, so we're left to assume someone did something to her (i'm trying hard to be brief, although brevity isn't my strength). ok, so we're
exactly where we thought we'd be. someone did something to her. let's look at #2.

2) her blood was found near her car on the day she went missing - it takes virtually no assumptions to claim that someone who isn't hb caused an injury to her and that injury was likely during the process of causing her to go missing. i
know this seems so far like "duh, we know" but think about it. there have been months of questioning motives of family and friends but stop and think - someone caused an injury to her around her car, outside of her house. how plausible
is it that this would be in any way connected to someone inside her house? if it was a premeditated attack from someone with access to the inside of her house why would they make their move outside? it takes more assumptions to believe
someone with access to her house would cause an injury to her near her car unless there were a reason to do so (this includes the often posited "someone was in her house" series of theories).

3) several personal items were found nowhere near where her blood was found - again, we don't have all of the specifics, but it has reliably been stated that personal items she was reported to have on her have been found in various
locations well after she went missing, none of which was near (meaning within a frame of space that she could have put them there without external influence) where her blood was found near her car. this indicates either hb herself is
placing items around various locations or the perpetrator(s) did so. what again doesn't seem plausible is that anyone who was part of LE's initial investigation (specifically the people who live with her, her boyfriend, etc) would have been able to conceal
these personal effects through various searches of their property in order to day(s) later plant them somewhere. again, it takes more assumptions to find a way to involve anyone from her immediate circle. the least number of assumptions again points to an external perpetrator.

4) whatever happened to her had to have happened in a small window of time - it's not assumptive to be suspicious of a single person's report (corroboration is always a strong way forward), but given that at least five separate people
reported speaking with her the morning of her disappearance (three family members from the home, a friend external to the house, and a boyfriend external to the house) we can assume she was ok as of approximately 740am. law enforcement
arrived at approximately 8am. that gives a twenty minute window of opportunity. again, the conjecture about the involvement of anyone close to her just doesn't add up. if it was someone close to her they had twenty minutes to a) harm her
near her car, b) hide her or her body so well that over a year's worth of subsequent searches have found nothing, hide her personal items so well that they would not be found during any search, and then plant those items in various
locations after the fact without being detected.

it doesn't add up in any way, shape, or form that anyone other than an external perpetrator would have the time to commit the act, the ability to conceal evidence of the act within the timeframe, and the ability to place (or cause to be
placed) her personal items in various locations after the fact. i know this probably seems obvious to a lot of you but reading through all of these threads the past few days there are just so many branches of theories that simply don't (to me) make any sense given what we know. just my 2 cents.

 

[wishuwerehere]

Many theories have been played out so as to eliminate elements of some of those theories. Talk it out, wring it out, flush it out, and see what remains. Old fashioned process of elimination.

The calls surrounding Holly’s abduction is, IMO, a crucial clue to this case. There is a flurry of calls which occur directly before the abduction. Did Holly give some clue to her boyfriend about something that didn’t seem right? We don’t know, he’s never given a public interview, nor do I think LE would allow him to release info of that nature. Then there’s the timing of the 911 calls, along with their descriptions which also we do not know. There is the neighbor’s account re hearing screams. We have never heard from the actual neighbor who heard the screams, to give his own account re the longevity of the screams and/or how many screams (was it just screaming or did Holly yell something verbally?), and why didn’t he find it necessary to check things out for himself (we don’t know).

The house dog is a clue to this case because, according to Clint, Rascal’s barking is what caused him to get out of bed and look outside. It’s never mentioned whether the outside dog was barking; something else we don’t know. Also, does Rascal bark at everyone when they’re outside and he’s inside, or is it just strangers (or just non family members) that cause him to give an alert? We don’t know.

Was a trail of Holly’s blood found on the property? We don’t know.

Why did Dana Bobo have to cordon off the carport area where Holly’s blood was found? What was LE doing at this time? Did any LE attempt to go into the woods immediately to try to find Holly? Also, when the search dogs arrived, did they lead to an area where a car may have been parked? We don’t know. How did LE know if Holly was or wasn’t hurt lying on the ground inside of the woods, maybe bleeding to death, why wait for the dogs? We don’t know.

These are just a few of the things about this case that we don’t know. One thing I do know is there’s a lot more that we don’t know.