TN TN - Karen Swift, 44, Dyersburg, 30 Oct 2011 - #2

[otto]

EXACTLY!! I was trying to make the point that we should not assume that there was a lot of animosity between them or that he was the violent type who would go into a jealous rage and kill her. If there was any violence or abuse in the past, I don't believe she would have stayed in their home, she would have left as soon as she filed the divorce papers, if not before.

Some women who are victims of spousal abuse often stay with the husband out of fear or the belief that they have no choice, or threats of harm if she leaves. This does not appear to be the case here. She was going to divorce him for the 2nd time... doesn't sound to me like she had any reason to be afraid of him, she went to a party without him. Sounds like they had an amicable arrangement to me. For all we know, they may have had an agreed to take turns going out and the other staying home with the girls.

It's fine to have differing opinions but inventing theories and then bolstering them with nothing but speculations is a waste of time, IMO. He may turn out to be an axe murderer but there have been no facts to support that theory that I've seen so far, maybe I've missed something?

Even the nicest people, with no animosity in the marriage, manage to find rage when faced with a crumbling life.

Let's not invent theories about men that are friendly during divorce.

 

[TxLady2]

We cannot assume that there was physical violence, and there's no reason to assume that the absence of physical violence means there was no domestic abuse.

Courts don't equate domestic violence against a wife with presumed violence against children, and most parents assume the same thing. Furthermore, there are many forms of domestic violence: physical, psychological, sexual, financial, verbal ... and the list goes on. Verbal abuse can appear as "jokes", put downs that aren't funny for the target of the "joke". It's possible that after 20 years of some form of abuse, Karen had had enough. Also, she doesn't appear to have had funds to live independently ... that's not a good sign, espeically since it appears that they lived comfortably.

I suspect that Karen may have been concerned about her husband's reaction, but she may have believed that nothing would happen with the children in the house. Women in dangerous situations often don't seem to make the right decisions ... which is why there are so many victims of spousal homicide. I also suspect that as a husband gets closer to murdering a spouse, he becomes nicer to the victim ... to disarm her. That was something that always surprised me about Scott Peterson ... that he was so nice to Laci the day he murdered her.

The older children may have their heads in the sand, may side with the father, may think that certain types of domestic violence are humor that is taken badly ... and then there is the interview with the son that broke down when he said that his father couldn't have done anything ... will post the link when I come across it again ... but I thought that was an odd time for him to have an emotional break. Stating that his father was not involved should have been a solid, emotionless point ... something stated with confidence, not an emotional breakdown.

You could be right. We don't know if this divorce was a shock to the husband or not, he could have agreed to it. Maybe they had talked about it before, so it might be that it wasn't exactly a surprise. Who knows? That's my point, WE DON'T KNOW what was going on at that time, other than she had filed for a divorce 19 days before her disappearance. I would think that if there was going to be some kind of firestorm it would have happened then... not almost 3 weeks later.

Regarding the son's emotional breakdown, I don't think it's fair to say he should have spoken with confidence or with no emotion. His mother is missing, it's a critical situation where people should not be expected to react normally. Was he asked whether he thought his father was responsible? If so, I think that took him by surprise and he reacted like many other sons would do... he broke down at the very idea that his father would harm his mother. IMO, we should not judge anyone for their emotions or reactions in these kinds of situations, because the situation itself is FAR from being normal.

 

[Nana46]

Yes, it has been verified that the clothing was hers ... verified through mitochondrial DNA.

The halloween costume was found in the car. That was assumed to belong to Karen. The clothing in the nearby bush had to be tested to be connected to her and it was.

Respectfully.....LE has not confirmed that. I believe a friend said that early on but really don't think LE has,IMO.

 

[Joe Friday]

Otto here are some pictures of outside of the house. I don't know if they will help you in your quest to build on your design of the house.


http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.100676110026972.896.100002537491891&type=1

 

[Joe Friday]

Someone, I believe it was Otto was wondering if the Swift's owned any ATV's. Here is a picture of an ATV outside of the Swift home. When I think of ATV I think of the four wheeler type you ride on. Not very suited for hauling around a dead body. But in this picture taken in front of the Swift home you can see that the ATV that Mr. Swift owns would be perfect for transporting a body. Perhaps LE should look for any trace evidence on this unit.

JMO

 

[belimom]

Just curious... why do you doubt the child was really sick? Do you think the child or her brother lied?
She might have woke up at 6:00 BECAUSE she was sick... she might have needed to go to the bathroom or throw up. Doesn't really matter, but I really can't see any reason for anyone to lie about it, IMO.

Honestly? At the time I posted that, I had been reading comments/rumors elsewhere... :innocent:

Now that time has passed since reading the rumors, then I think it probably did go down the way it's being reported - that the child called the mom.

:seeya:

 

[OldSteve]

We cannot assume that there was physical violence, and there's no reason to assume that the absence of physical violence means there was no domestic abuse.

Courts don't equate domestic violence against a wife with presumed violence against children, and most parents assume the same thing. Furthermore, there are many forms of domestic violence: physical, psychological, sexual, financial, verbal ... and the list goes on. Verbal abuse can appear as "jokes", put downs that aren't funny for the target of the "joke". It's possible that after 20 years of some form of abuse, Karen had had enough. Also, she doesn't appear to have had funds to live independently ... that's not a good sign, espeically since it appears that they lived comfortably.

I suspect that Karen may have been concerned about her husband's reaction, but she may have believed that nothing would happen with the children in the house. Women in dangerous situations often don't seem to make the right decisions ... which is why there are so many victims of spousal homicide. I also suspect that as a husband gets closer to murdering a spouse, he becomes nicer to the victim ... to disarm her. That was something that always surprised me about Scott Peterson ... that he was so nice to Laci the day he murdered her.

The older children may have their heads in the sand, may side with the father, may think that certain types of domestic violence are humor that is taken badly ... and then there is the interview with the son that broke down when he said that his father couldn't have done anything ... will post the link when I come across it again ... but I thought that was an odd time for him to have an emotional break. Stating that his father was not involved should have been a solid, emotionless point ... something stated with confidence, not an emotional breakdown.

Lots of good points!
How many times have seen cases where a husband is fighting for custody of the kid(s), and he then murders their mother... it's a strange thing...
What is it with these husbands - greedy, controlling??

The kids in these situations remain loyal to their fathers especially if the mother remains missing, but even in case where she is found (at least in cases I've seen). It's a strange kind of disassociation...

Always the irony if it's a case of greed/control since legals costs and jail take everything from a murderous husband in the long run.

 

[ThoughtFox]

Yes, it has been verified that the clothing was hers ... verified through mitochondrial DNA.

The halloween costume was found in the car. That was assumed to belong to Karen. The clothing in the nearby bush had to be tested to be connected to her and it was.

Respectfully.....LE has not confirmed that. I believe a friend said that early on but really don't think LE has,IMO.

Sheriff Box confirmed the Halloween costume in the car and said the other clothes were being tested, but you're right that they won't confirm the DNA evidence:

Dyer County Sheriff Jeff Box said Swift's Halloween costume was still in the car, but not her purse. More than 40 officers from across the state have searched for days in the rural area and have discovered some items, including clothing.

"There's some items that could possibly be tracked to her," said Box. "But we definitely need to be sure before we say they are hers."

Box said DNA tests are being done on the items

http://www.kfvs12.com/story/15967589/loved-ones-hold-second-vigil-for-missing-mother-of-four

On November 15, we had this on Nancy Grace:

Back to David Lohr, senior crime reporter, HuffingtonPost. For those of you just joining us, give me the timeline one more time, David. And I want to hear about the condition of the car. We`ve also had reported that clothes, reportedly belonging to Karen, were found near the abandoned car. Were those tires slashed? Was the air let out of the tires?

David Lohr, what do we know? We know she was not in the car at 5:30 when the neighbor drove by.

LOHR: Yes. Correct. We know she wasn`t in the car at 5:30. We know somebody used her phone at 5:00 AM. We know the vehicle has a flat tire. The Tennessee Bureau of Investigation, they currently have the vehicle. They`re not saying whether or not the tire was sliced or how it had gone flat yet.

Now, friends I spoke with, they said that some clothing, a gray zip- up, like someone would use for jogging, along with some jeans were found nearby. They said they`ve compared the mother`s DNA to those. Law enforcement, though -- they`re not confirming whether or not those items of clothing belong to her.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1111/15/ng.01.html

 

[kantoo]

"They found her Halloween costume in the car. Some other articles of clothing that belonged to her -- a pair of jeans and a gray zip-up -- were found in some brush not far from her car. They confirmed [the clothing items] belong to her. They took DNA from her mother and compared it to DNA on the clothes," Swift's friend Laura Jane told The Huffington Post.

The Dyer County Sheriff's Office has yet to confirm the find. Calls to the agency are directed to a voicemail for a Sheriff Jeff Boxx.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/09/karen-johnson-swift-missing-clothing_n_1084468.html

 

[otto]

You could be right. We don't know if this divorce was a shock to the husband or not, he could have agreed to it. Maybe they had talked about it before, so it might be that it wasn't exactly a surprise. Who knows? That's my point, WE DON'T KNOW what was going on at that time, other than she had filed for a divorce 19 days before her disappearance. I would think that if there was going to be some kind of firestorm it would have happened then... not almost 3 weeks later.

Regarding the son's emotional breakdown, I don't think it's fair to say he should have spoken with confidence or with no emotion. His mother is missing, it's a critical situation where people should not be expected to react normally. Was he asked whether he thought his father was responsible? If so, I think that took him by surprise and he reacted like many other sons would do... he broke down at the very idea that his father would harm his mother. IMO, we should not judge anyone for their emotions or reactions in these kinds of situations, because the situation itself is FAR from being normal.

Quite true ... we don't know why Karen decided to divorce her husband and we can't assume that he did anything strange as a result of that application. We know that shortly after Karen filed for divorce she vanished under extremely bizarre and inexplicable circumstances. I have expectations from people ... at least from normal people. I gag on those ridiculous words from Geragos when he explained Scott Peterson in terms of "everyone grieves differently". No ... people have grieved in the same way for centuries and when there are isolated situations that are not consistent with the norm (e.g.: Casey Anthony), it's because there's something wrong, not because all of a sudden, after thousands of years on this earth, people suddenly developed a new way to grieve or respond to tragedy. I think that there was something unusual in where the son placed his emotions ... not on the fact that his mother had disappeared, but on the fact that he believed his father wasn't involved.

Do you suppose Karen went out in the middle of the night, got a flat tire, stripped, hid her clothes under a nearby bush and then got lost in the forest ... where she met an evil stranger who made her disappear? Maybe she met an evil stranger first and he put her clothes in the bushes shortly before he took her and her cell phone for a drive? What explanation could there be for what happened?

 

[otto]

Respectfully.....LE has not confirmed that. I believe a friend said that early on but really don't think LE has,IMO.

True ... the friend was quoted as saying that the clothes found in a nearby bush belonged to Karen. I suppose the friend could have recognized that the clothes that were found were the same as the clothes that Karen owned.

"They found her Halloween costume in the car. Some other articles of clothing that belonged to her -- a pair of jeans and a gray zip-up -- were found in some brush not far from her car. They confirmed [the clothing items] belong to her. They took DNA from her mother and compared it to DNA on the clothes," Swift's friend Laura Jane told The Huffington Post."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/09/karen-johnson-swift-missing-clothing_n_1084468.html

 

[otto]

Otto here are some pictures of outside of the house. I don't know if they will help you in your quest to build on your design of the house.


http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.100676110026972.896.100002537491891&type=1

Thank you ... but the page comes up as not available.

 

[Joe Friday]

Thank you ... but the page comes up as not available.

They are on Karen's work FB page. See if this link works for you.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002537491891

 

[Breazy]

Thank you ... but the page comes up as not available.

You have to sign in to Facebook to see the pics. At least that's what worked for me!

 

[Breazy]

Was just checking in & catching up on Karen's thread. Such great minds here!! Love reading all your posts. Don't contribute much due to usually playing catch up. Sure wish something new would break to add to the discussion. Always praying for Karen!!

 

[interestedone]

Does anyone know if KS lawyer that she used to file papers on DS is a male?

 

[LindaG]

Someone, I believe it was Otto was wondering if the Swift's owned any ATV's. Here is a picture of an ATV outside of the Swift home. When I think of ATV I think of the four wheeler type you ride on. Not very suited for hauling around a dead body. But in this picture taken in front of the Swift home you can see that the ATV that Mr. Swift owns would be perfect for transporting a body. Perhaps LE should look for any trace evidence on this unit.

JMO

They COULD Joe Friday, but Swift will not let LE search the house or surrounding property.

 

[tarabull]

Crime Stoppers offers reward in missing Tenn. woman case

Dyer County Crime Stoppers is offering a cash reward for information that would lead to an arrest and conviction in the Karen Swift disappearance case.

http://www.kfvs12.com/story/16126550/crime-stoppers-offers-reward-in-missing-tenn-woman?clienttype=printable&autoStart=true&topVideoCatNo=default&clipId=6492003

 

[Kimmer]

They COULD Joe Friday, but Swift will not let LE search the house or surrounding property.

Since this would also be the vicims home could LE not get a search warrant for the house and the property?

 

[LindaG]

Since this would also be the vicims home could LE not get a search warrant for the house and the property?

Kimmer- I believe LE would have to be able to convince a judge that there was good enough reason to search the property, such as believing there was evidence there to indicate that a crime had been committed, before a judge would agree to sign the necessary search warrant.